Pro and Con 342

Uploaded 6-16-99

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Re: P&C 341....inspired!
I just finished reading P&C 341. What inspired writing!

Anyone who reads this P&C, items 4 and 8, and still has doubts about the Pre-Tribulation Rapture just isn't paying attention!

My reply

Thank you for your kindness.

I think a lot of Pre-Wrathers read someone else's ideas and take them for gospel truth, even to the point of parroting those same ideas as a basis to argue from, without reading all of Scripture for themselves and letting it say what it says.

They throw out Rev. 3:10's "I also will keep thee FROM (ek, 'out of,' Green's Interlinear) the hour of temptation (peirasmos, trial)" without comparing it with Isa. 57:1's "the righteous is taken away from the evil to come."

From II Thess. 2, they claim that the apostacy and the man of sin have to be revealed before the Rapture and shut their eyes to the sequence in verses 7 and 8. The Holy Spirit, the restrainer in believers (the salt of the Earth), will restrain "UNTIL he be taken out of the way (FIRST). And THEN (SECOND) shall that Wicked be revealed."

They say that the "Come up hither" in Rev. 4:1 is not the Rapture, and close their eyes to the fact that the people "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" are in Heaven in 5:9. They fail to recognize that they are in Heaven before either one of the endtime beasts come on the scene in Rev. 6.

Their logic is flawed. They have no conception of what Lu. 21:36 means. The Lord said, "pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS that SHALL (afterward) come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

I want to stand before Christ in Heaven, as in Rev. 1:13, fall down before him in adoration, as in Rev. 5:8, and sing "a new song," as in Rev. 5:9, before the Tribulation begins (Rev. 6). We have a chance to escape ALL these things that "MUST BE HEREAFTER" (Rev. 4:1), but Pre-Wrathers say that they themselves will have great joy in Tribulation. Is that believing what the Lord himself said? I think not.

Either we escape it all, or we don't. The Lord says we can. They say we won't. For me, I choose to believe the Lord. I pray that I will be accounted worthy to escape ALL these things. The Pre-Wrathers can have their great joy in Tribulation. I seek a better thing. I want to be "joyful in glory." Psa. 149:4,5 says, "the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation. Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds."

On Earth, the "night cometh, when no man can work" (John 9:4). I want to be in Heaven then. There is "no night there" (Rev. 22:5).

It is hard for me to see how Pre-Wrathers can throw away such wonderful promises our merciful Lord has given us.

Second John 1:8 tells us, "Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a FULL REWARD." Rev. 3:11 says, "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown." I am after my "FULL REWARD" and do not want to lose my crown.

I believe II Pet. 2:9, that "The Lord knoweth how to DELIVER the godly OUT OF TEMPTATIONS (Green: peirasmou, temptation, i.e., the trial that will come upon all the Earth, Rev. 3:10)."

I trust Christ to save my soul. I also trust him to save me from the Tribulation, which is Israel's 5th cycle of discipline. Lev. 26:27,28 says, "And IF YE WILL NOT for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; THEN I WILL walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times (years) for your sins."

I am doing my best to hearken unto him and not walk contrary unto him. I have confessed my sins. Is he going to chastise me along with them seven years anyway? I don't think so. I know you don't, either. See you in glory. We have a "blessed hope" that the Pre-Wrathers do not.

While they are looking for the man of sin, we are "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from ALL iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works" (Titus 2:13,14).

The Laodiceans are not zealous. They are warned, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent" (Rev. 3:19). Those lukewarm Laodiceans are walking a tight rope. If they don't listen to the Lord and do what he says, they could slip and find themselves in the seven years of chastisement meant for Israel.

Luke 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant (the unwise one) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers."

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Re: Waiting on the Rapture
Just have to keep you informed of what the Holy Spirit reveals to me. I have just listened to Charles Stanley's tape series on "When it is wise to wait", and know his message is relevant to you.

Dr. Stanley's teaching is to wait on the Lord NOT by sitting around doing nothing, but rather carrying on in your work. This is what you are doing.

Those that criticise you for studying the signs of the Rapture are in essence exerting a belief that you should not do any study, instead of your work!

I pray for continued knowledge to be revealed to all of us....

My reply

I have to agree with you. We are to go by what Scripture says. II Tim. 2:15 says, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

While Ed exercised at Rehab today, I read the Bible as usual. In Dan. 7:23-26, I saw a sketch of the time from the appearance of the first beast of Rev. 13 to when Satan will have dominion taken away and his kingdom destroyed until the end of Armageddon.

This passage in Daniel fits right in with Rev. 17:10,12. There, at the time of the Rapture, "ONE IS (the first beast), and the other (the second beast) IS NOT YET COME...And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received NO KINGDOM AS YET; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast" (the first one).

Dan. 7:23-26 says, "The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth (Rome), which shall be diverse (different) from all kingdoms (it's final form is ecclesiastical), and shall devour the WHOLE EARTH (i.e., the Tribulation Pope will head up the world government), and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns OUT OF THIS KINGDOM (world government) are ten kings that shall arise (after the Rapture, Rev. 17:12): and another ('another beast' of Rev. 13:11, the False Prophet) shall rise AFTER THEM; and he shall be diverse (not the same man) from the first (beast of Rev. 13:4-10), and he shall subdue three kings. And he (the Satan-possessed False Prophet) shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High (Rev. 12:17), and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time (the last 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation). But the judgment (of the nations) shall sit (after 2520 days of the Tribulation), and they (the Lord and his saints, Psa. 149:9) shall take away his (False Prophet/Satan's) dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end" (of Armageddon, Satan's last ditch stand).

Psa. 149:8,9 says, "To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD."

At the time of the Rapture, the ten kings have no kingdom as yet and the False Prophet has not yet come. Therefore, the people who are looking for the appearance of the Wicked one before the Rapture will not see him revealed before the Pre-Trib Rapture.

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Can you clarify something for me? I have noticed at your web site you mention both a weekly sabbath and just a plain sabbath. It was always my impression that the weekly sabbath was always the same day of the week (Saturday) and that, per chance, an annual holy day (ie:Passover) came about on, say the 15th of Nisan, that this day would/could fall on any day of the week in that given year. Do you agree with this ? Could you recommend a decent, reputable book/reference on the subject matter that would help to clarify this??

Secondly, is it true that the month of Adar2 is added at the end of a given Jewish year to allow for the "365" day theory? The Jewish calendar is based on moons and not a fixed # of days - being that it takes 28-29 days for the moon to run it's full course, this would set them back quite a few days over the course of say, 10 years and this is where Adar2 comes in?? How do they determine when it's appropriate to add this month ??

Keep on keepin' on Sister. God Bless

My reply

I'm keepin' on keepin' on. Don't worry. I want to finish the course and win the prize of the high calling of God.

The weekly Sabbath is Saturday. A feast day is also a sabbath, which means rest. It doesn't have to fall on Saturday.

> Could you recommend a decent, reputable book/reference on the subject matter that would help to clarify this?

How about Lev. 23? Verse 3 says that "the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein." Verse 4 says that the feasts are "holy convocations" too.

If you are wondering if we should worship on Saturday, Col. 2:16 says, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." The Sabbath was a sign between God and the Jews. We can worship on any day.

Christ's two comings are on the new moon (Tishri 1 and Nisan 1). The Sabbath is a type of the seventh 1000-year Day of the Lord. Doesn't that sound like the Rapture would be on a "holyday"? I think Pentecost is most likely.

> is it true that the month of Adar2 is added at the end of a given
> Jewish year to allow for the "365" day theory?

Not for that reason, but to keep Firstfruits so aligned with the season that there is sure to be grain.

> How do they determine when it's appropriate to add this month?

In the Talmudic calendar, it is added in the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 19th years of the 19-year cycle. In others, it seems to be added when necessary to start Nisan after the Spring Equinox.

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Since You enjoyed last picture of Eta Carinae (I thought it was Great Work by our Creator too!)....Here's some more that are related. Gee, look at the dates!?!

"KEYHOLE" nebula and "ETA CARINAE: a MYSTERY STAR" that is found in it.

Here's a beautiful picture of Keyhole Nebula (Note - Astronomy Picture of the Day May 23, 1999!): http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap990523.html

From "Introducing Nova Velorum 1999" (Note - Astronomy Picture of the Day May 24, 1999!): http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap990524.html

My reply

Thanks. I tried to figure out from surrounding stars the exact location of Nova Velorum on the chart in Kerrod's Star Guide, but couldn't. The area zeroed in on is probably too small and may show stars that are not even on the chart. They are as nothing compared to the new star.

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...I've been thinking how Elijah and Noah knew at least a few days ahead what was happening. I think we will too, don't you? Also, I had an interesting tho't when reading in 2Kings Chapter 8 where Elisha told the woman whose son he had restored to life to go somewhere safe because of famine, and after 7 years she came back and all posessions were restored to her. I just wondered if when we come back after 7 years if God is going to restore our physical possessions? I never tho't of that before, and it doesn't really matter since we have our treasures in Heaven, but I suppose we have something here during His millenial reign. Or maybe that applies only to the Jews and their redemption that God provided for them. Oh well, jus' thinkin'. God's Word has so many layers, I can hardly wait 'til I get to Heaven to have the rest of the scales drop from my eyes. I am in awe of Him now, just think how I will feel then, when He tells us some or all the rest of the mysteries? God is SO GOOD. Can't praise Him enough. My prayers are for you and Ed, your pains and problems. God gives us uncrossable mountains at times so we can see His hand in all we accomplish. We sure couldn't do it without Him. These are exciting times....Love and prayers

My reply

> I've been thinking how Elijah and Noah knew at least a few days ahead
> what was happening. I think we will too, don't you?

We may not be able to go by Elijah's knowing, because he probably represents the Tribulation saints. After the Tribulation begins, timing is easier to figure out than now.

Noah is definitely connected to the first Rapture, and he knew 7 days ahead of time. However, it was necessary for he had to load the Ark. Our days may be different, or not. We just have to do what Jesus said, "Watch."

However, there are some scriptures we need to consider. Lu. 12:46: "The lord of that servant (unwise servant who said, 'My lord delayeth his coming," etc.) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers (i.e., during the Tribulation)." Mt. 24:51 adds, "cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (during the Tribulation): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Rev. 3:3: If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." The coming as a thief can be the second Rapture on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord, for "the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night" (II Pet. 3:10). I Thess. 5:2-6 says, "the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night....But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness (sixth seal). Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober."

The coming as a thief in the following circumstance does seem to refer to the Pre-Trib Rapture. Mt. 24:41-43 says, "Two women (religious groups) shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken (wise virgins), and the other left (foolish virgins). Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman (minister) of the house (church) had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up (diorusso, dug through)."

My feeling is that if we watch, we will know. One thing for sure, if we don't watch we won't know. Why are we told to watch, if there is nothing to find out by watching?

> I suppose we have something here during His millenial reign.

Maybe not. Our home is Heaven. We are not to build up treasures on Earth, but in Heaven. We can travel back and forth to do the Lord's will.

> God's Word has so many layers

That is so true. I don't think we can fully understand all those layers in a lifetime. That is why I can't leave the Bible alone. There is always something new waiting for us to discover.

> God is SO GOOD.

That is for sure. If unbelieving mankind treated a man in authority like he treats God, not one would be left by now. They would have been squashed. God is very patient. He has far more patience than we would have. The rain falls on the just and the unjust alike....

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FWD: Re: Antichrist & The Midnight Cry: From: LynMize@aol.com

...Antichrist will be revealed right after the Firstfruits Rapture, which currently appears to be June 20th. Antichrist is currently 82 years old, but he will appear younger than 82 simply because of his genetics. He has a full head of white hair and will be very distinguished looking. The eye will look normal as there is nothing wrong with the eye. It is the optic nerve that is damaged.

All Christians left on the earth after the Firstfruits Rapture will know that he is the Antichrist. He will persecute them severely. Christians are already under attack in the USA. It will be unbearable during the tribulation period, as the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit will be removed. The persecution will produce holiness in the Church left on the earth.

Damascus will be destroyed a very short time before the Firstfruits Rapture. It could be a day or even several days before the Firstfruits Rapture occurs. I believe the destruction of Damascus will be the catalyst that produces the Midnight Cry. The Five Wise Virgins are currently telling millions of Christians that the Bridegroom is coming very soon, but they do not believe it at present. When Damascus is destroyed, all of these Christians--the Five Foolish Virgins--will realize the truth of what they have been told, and the Midnight Cry will go up. The whole Church will awaken to the fact of the coming of the Bridegroom, and the Foolish Virgins will ask the Wise Virgins about living holy. The Foolish Virgins will confess their sins and get clean, but they do not have the extra measure of oil, which is the filling of the Holy Spirit. While the Foolish Virgins will begin doing the things that they should have been doing all along, the Five Wise Virgins will be raptured to heaven.

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth by the Foolish Virgins for their lack of preparation. Two-thirds of the Christians left on the earth will become faithful during the 40 months of tribulation. Many will be martyred for their faith....God Bless, LynMize

My reply

I am astonished that he would say some of these things, especially the following:

> Damascus will be destroyed a very short time before the Firstfruits Rapture.

In Isa. 14:22,23, the "LORD of hosts" (i.e., the pre-incarnate Christ) is speaking about Babylon. He says, "I will sweep it with the besom of destruction." The time is THAT DAY, the Day of God's Wrath on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord.

Following that, in chapter 17:1, we find that "Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap." It takes place at the same time that Babylon is destroyed. In 17:7, we find that "At THAT DAY shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel." The Sign of the Son of Man (Mt. 24:30) will be seen that day.

In 17:11, "the harvest shall be a heap in THE DAY of grief and of desperate sorrow." Verse 13 says, "The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters (as in Ezek. 38): but GOD SHALL REBUKE THEM, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind."

These things do not happen before the Rapture. We are to watch for the Lord, not the destruction of Damascus.

His reply

Thank you, Marilyn. What you say makes a good deal of sense.

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...Question on how many years a generation is. In Matthew we read the geneology and get 14 generations between David and Abraham, David and Babylonian captivity, and from captivity to birth of Christ. What is the years span between each? and if we divide would we get an average span of years equal to a generation?

Now - on the False Prophet. Please be so kind as to point me to some of your writings so I can understand, or straighten out my thoughts on the identity of the False Prophet and the AntiChrist when referred to in the Bible. I've always brushed past your statements about the False Prophet being the final AntiChrist thinking I'll study it later. I've had it in my head there is THE AntiChrist and the False Prophet helps him and is beside him, not after him. He is concurrent with the AntiChrist. I thought is was the AntiChrist who "shows himself that he is God." and demands people worship his image, while the False Prophet performs signs and wonders and points to the AntiChrist.

Days shall be shortened???? Jack Van Impe, or is it Pat Robertson, believes the world will be spinning faster and the days are shorter than 24 hours, not less in number. But in Daniel I read two sets of numbers. How did you explain that?...GOD BLESS

My reply

> Question on how many years a generation is. In Matthew we read the geneology and get
> 14 generations between David and Abraham, David and Babylonian captivity, and from
> captivity to birth of Christ. What is the years span between each? and if we divide
> would we get an average span of years equal to a generation?

Abram was born in 2008 AH. That was BC 2035. I think Jesus was born in BC 5. BC 2030 divided by 42 = 48.33. The "from Abraham" might mean from his death. He lived 175 years, so he died in 2183 AH/BC 1860. BC 1860 - 5 divided by 42 = 44.17. When I was counting 2300-day periods and checking to see if the final year was a leap year, I took these into consideration. The only place I could see that the 2300 days of Dan. 8:14 fit was from the Feast of Weeks in 2001 to the Feast of Trumpets in 2007, the first day of 5768, which is a leap year.

> I've had it in my head there is THE AntiChrist and the False Prophet helps him and is
> beside him, not after him. He is concurrent with the AntiChrist. I thought is was the
> AntiChrist who "shows himself that he is God." and demands people worship his image,
> while the False Prophet performs signs and wonders and points to the AntiChrist.

In Rev. 13, there are two beasts. In Rev. 20:10, they are named "the beast and the false prophet." Therefore, I try to call them the Beast and the False Prophet. They are two different men, as you can see from Rev. 20:10, where both men are in the Lake of Fire. One does not die, get resurrected and become the other, as some say. In Rev. 13:11, the second beast is "another beast," not the first one. The first is out of the nations (symbol, sea, Rev. 17:15). The second is out of the land, i.e., Israel. He is Satan possessed, so speaks "as a dragon" (Rev. 13:11). In Dan. 7:20, he had "a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows."

The Beast has 10 subsidiary kings under him, "and ANOTHER (the False Prophet) shall rise AFTER THEM; and he shall be DIVERSE FROM THE FIRST, and he shall subdue three kings" (Dan. 7:24).

In Rev. 13:7, the Beast, the first one, is given power over "all kindreds, and tongues, and nations." He is the head of the world government. At the same time, he is also head over world religion, "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb" (13:8). I believe that he will be the Pontifex Maximus, just as the high priest of the Mystery Religion of Babylon was called the Pontifex Maximus. He will rule the first 1260 days of the Tribulation (13:5). Satan gives him "his power, and his seat (throne), and great authority" (Rev. 13:2). What Satan gives, Satan can take away.

As the second 1260 days begins, Satan will be cast out of Heaven, enter into the False Prophet, pull off a coup, and take leadership of both the world government and the world church into his own hands. Rev. 13:12 says, "he exerciseth all the power of the first beast." He will immediately head for the temple, sit there "shewing himself that he is God" (II Thess. 2:4), and cause "the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed."

Somehow, Satan will engineer things so that the Beast will be wounded by a sword and incapacitated so the False Prophet can take over as head of both the world government and the world church. He will say "to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live" (Rev. 13:14).

> the days are shorter than 24 hours, not less in number. But in Daniel I
> read two sets of numbers. How did you explain that?

There is Jesus' long day, of which Joshua's long day was a type. However, aside from that day, the day the asteroid impacts Earth and turns it upside down, the days seem to be normal 24-hour days.

In Dan. 12, there are three numbers, 1260 days, 1290 days, and 1335 days. All begin in the middle of the Tribulation. At the end of the 1260 days, the seven-year Tribulation is over. The Judgment of the Nations takes place. Dominion is taken away from Satan. He is deposed as god of the world. The sheep go on to live on Earth during the Millennium. The goats are done away with and the people mourn them 30 days, until the end of the 1290 days. On the 1335th day, Israel will be given back to the 12 tribes. Daniel will literally stand in his own lot on that day.

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Updated 6-16-99