Pro and Con 355

Uploaded 7-13-99

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Re: water on temple mount
To see pictures of water flowing from the temple mount go to

My reply

Thanks loads. I think this hose is connected to the pump they took in.

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I have believed for quite some time now (at least a decade or more), that the Rapture would occur on some future Rosh ha Shanah. I was just always unsure of which year. However, I believed that in God's time, He would reveal that to those of us who are keeping watch! A study of the Jewish Feasts clearly reveals that Rosh ha Shanah is the next feast to be fulfilled in the key prophetic timetable of Christ's impact on His creation. I do not believe you are off regarding the import of the year 1999 though. We are currently in the Hebrew year 5759, with 5760 to begin on Rosh ha Shanah (Tishri 1). As a simple example, count to the 57th book of the Bible (with the multi-part books counting as only one each) - Revelation. Then count to the 59 and 60th verses. Amazing! Your Brother In Christ

My reply

OH YES! AMAZING! I hope I did that right. I'm going to check it to be sure. Revelation 1 has 20 verses. Rev. 2 has 29. We need 10 and 11 of Rev. 3. Yep. That is amazing. Rev. 3:10 is #59. That is the verse that says he will keep us FROM the trial that is coming on the whole world. Rev. 3:11 is #60. It says, "Behold, I COME quickly." Fantastic. :-) Thanks a bunch. The year 5760 looks promising.

I think it will be Pentecost though. When the spies went into the promised land, "the time was the time of the firstripe grapes" (Nu. 13:20). In verse 17 Moses "said unto them, Get you UP this way southward, and GO UP into the MOUNTAIN." That's a good picture of going up to another planet. Mt. Sinai represented Heaven.

This took place in spring or early summer. At the Rapture, we will be going up to our promised land too. Song of Sol. 2:10-14 is when the winter is past, the rains are over, there are flowers, turtledoves, green figs, and the vines give a good smell. That fits Pentecost and rules out every other feast. Tishri is the time of the former rain, Nisan the time of the latter rain. Song 2:13,14 says, "Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away. O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock (i.e., in Christ), in the secret places of the stairs." Omit "places" for it is not in the original. This is the secret of the stairs. I think it is talking about the same thing that Jacob's ladder depicted. It reaches from Earth to Heaven. Angels go up and down on it. It is a beautiful picture.

> Rosh ha Shanah is the next feast to be fulfilled

There were TWO wave loaves at Pentecost though. There can be TWO fulfilments. The first filled the church with the Holy Spirit. The second may call up the church that is filled with the Holy Spirit.

I think the Pre-Wrath Rapture will be on Rosh HaShanah. Agape

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[Rev. 1:3; NAS] 3 Blessed is he who READS and those who HEAR the words of the prophecy, and HEED (observe, hold fast) the things written in it: for the time is near.

A blessing is proclaimed to the three classes of people that Christ's prophetic word is given. HE who READS the words of the prophecy is ISRAEL; THOSE who HEAR the words of the prophecy is the CHURCH; and the ONES who HEED the things written are the TRIBULATION SAINTS of the NATIONS. These three groups are again identified in Revelation as: 11:18 (NAS): the time to give their reward to Thy BOND-SERVANTS the PROPHETS (JEWS) and to the SAINTS (CHURCH) and to those who FEAR Thy NAME (TRIBULATION SAINTS). 17:14 (NAS):..."and those who are with Him are the CALLED (CHURCH who HEAR) and CHOSEN (JEWS who SEE) and FAITHFUL" (TRIBULATION SAINT who HEED)....

What a blessing for you the Christian, as a HEARER of the prophetic word of Jesus in Revelation, to not only HEAR what the Spirit says to the Churches, but also what the words of the prophecy reveal. After the door to heaven is opened, in Revelation 4:1, and the COMMAND to "COME UP HERE," i.e. the rapture, all of the spiritual revelations HEARD by John take place or originate from heaven where we will be. There is nothing on earth for us to HEAR anymore.

TO THE GENTILES: 3 Blessed is ... and HEED the things which are written in it...

The word HEED comes from the Greek word 'tereo' which as defined in Strong's Concordance is: to WATCH; to GUARD from LOSS by keeping the EYE upon; to note a PROPHECY; by extension to WITHHOLD for personal ends; figuratively to KEEP UNMARRIED.

Blessings will be given to the GENTILES, if they HEED the words written in Revelation, WATCH as the PROPHECY unfolds around them, KEEP an EYE on the truth of scripture over the lie, and KEEP UNMARRIED to the worship of Satan so as not to suffer eternal LOSS.

The fulfillment of Godıs word in the miracles, signs and wonders during the tribulation is given as bread for the benefit of Israel, but the dogs (Gentiles) will be allowed to eat of the table scraps which fall their way for their own belief....

How can the believing GENTILES (or Tribulation Saints) that OVERCOME be compared to CHRISTıS OVERCOMING? By faith, they HEEDED the THINGS WRITTEN in Scripture and they both chose VOLUNTARY DEATH in this world as an act of obedience and worship to God. The OVERCOMERS will believe in Jesus, the true Messiah and God, and that He will fulfill His promise of life after death. The tribulation holy ones of the Gentiles will OVERCOME Satan by believing that Christ came in the flesh, died, and rose again, by confessing Christ as Lord, and by not loving their life even to death.

3...for the time is near.

Could it possibly be that the opening of the book by the Holy Spirit to unveil the blessings and the signified marks will communicate the soon return of Christ at the Rapture?...

My reply

You are dividing Rev. 1:3, as if parts of it was written to three different classes of people, Israel, the church, and the Tribulation saints of the nations. You said,

> HE who READS the words of the prophecy is ISRAEL; THOSE who HEAR the words of the
> prophecy is the CHURCH; and the ONES who HEED the things written are the TRIBULATION

I believe that all of Revelation is written to the church, including Rev. 1:3. Paul wrote to "the church of God" (I Cor. 1:2) when he said in I Cor. 10:11, "Now all these things happened unto them (Israel) for ensamples: and they are written for OUR ADMONITION upon whom the ends of the world (lit., ages) are come." Here, he really was talking about two classes, Israel (past) and the church (present). The church was at that time, and is now, made up of both Jews and Gentiles. Believers are now all one body in Christ and not to be separated into these "CLASSES."

I Cor. 10:32 says, "Give none offence, neither to the Jews (unbelieving Jews), nor to the Gentiles (unbelieving Gentiles), nor to the church of God" (believers, Jew and Gentile united in the Body of Christ). "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into ONE BODY, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (I Cor. 12:13).

The members of the church, made up of both believing Jews and Gentiles, are Christ's "servants." This Revelation is written to them. This is "THE Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto HIS SERVANTS things which must SHORTLY COME TO PASS." Before the Rapture takes place, the church is being given a view of those things that are to come upon the world after the Rapture, but from Rev. 1:1 through 5:14, the church is dominant in the picture.

The whole book of Revelation is written as if the Rapture is at hand. Christ, as the playwright, chose the setting of this play. The Rapture is "at hand" in both the first and last chapters (1:3; 22:10). Jesus signed off saying, "Surely I come quickly" (22:20). He comes quickly at the Rapture (2:5). Jesus stood at that point in time and looked both backward and forward to describe events of the past and the future. His vantage point is the Rapture. Everything in the book is either "the things which thou hast seen" (before the Rapture), "the things which are" (at the time of the Rapture), or "the things which shall be hereafter" (1:19) ("hereafter" the Rapture, 4:1).

Since the NAS has "HEED" where the KJV has "KEEP," I will quote Rev. 1:3 in the KJV. It says, "Blessed is he that READETH, and they that HEAR the words of this prophecy, and KEEP those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand."

By making sections apply to three groups that you have separated from each other, you are in effect taking away from the church the precious last part: "and KEEP those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand." The Rapture is "at hand" in our days. The ones that will "keep" the Rapture are the members of the church.

Rev. 1:3 in the NAS says, "Happy is the man who reads this prophetic message, and happy are those who HEAR IT AND HEED what is written in it, for the appointed time is near!" It is clear in the NAS that the same person who hears it can heed it. There is no separation between one hearing and another heeding. One person can hear and heed it.

Let's see what "tereo" means. It is translated "heed" in the NAS and "keep" in the KJV. You said,
> 3 Blessed is...and HEED the things which are written in it...
> The word HEED comes from the Greek word Œtereoı which as defined in Strong's Concordance
> is: to WATCH; to GUARD from LOSS by keeping the EYE upon; to note a PROPHECY; by
> extension to WITHHOLD for personal ends; figuratively to KEEP UNMARRIED.

Thayer expands on the 'keep unmarried' as metaph. to keep one in that state in which he is, to keep "as a virgin i.e. unmarried."

This gives us a clue. What is it that the church should guard so that they don't lose it? Rev. 3:11 tells the Philadelphians to "hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown." What do the Philadelphians already have that they must GUARD FROM LOSS? the fact that they are WISE VIRGINS. They have already taken HEED of what Jesus told the churches. They have repented. Therefore, they will KEEP the appointment with the Lord at the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture. They will "KEEP those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand."

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The Festival of Pentecost is for the Church (VonDross)
...A prophetic message and slate of events is given in the ordered description of Jesus Christ. "The faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth," are the declared fulfillment of the three Great Festivals of the Lord which prophetically pointed to Christ. The Festival of Pessah (Passover), the Festival of Shavout (Weeks/First-fruits/Pentecost), and the Festival of Succot (Tabernacles/Booths) were the three major Feasts ordained by God. They were to be a prophecy and foreshadowing of future events, part of which have been fulfilled, and part are yet to be. They are a shadow of what is to come; but the substance (or the body casting the shadow) belongs to Christ . (Col. 2:16,17) You can determine something of the body with out seeing it by examining the parts, pattern, and outline, of the shadow that it casts. In God's message to the churches He has outlined in His Name His prophetic plan.

who is...the faithful witness,

Christ IS to the Jew, first, and also to the Gentiles, the FAITHFUL WITNESS of the Festival of PASSOVER.

Every commanded instruction and ritual associated with the celebration of this feast, which foreshadowed Christ, was literally fulfilled by Christ, the Passover Lamb....

John 19:28&30 (NAS): After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already accomplished, in order that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, "I am thirsty." ... When Jesus therefore had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished" (My witness as the complete fulfillment of Scripture, regarding Passover, is finished).

The entire water of the word of God to the Jews in the Old Testament was manifested, visible to them, and fulfilled in Christ, the bread that came down out of heaven. Christ's ultimate witness that He was righteous was His faithful sacrifice on the cross; the authentic fulfillment of Passover. Christ became the Passover Lamb on the Feast of Passover.

who was ... the first-born of the dead

Christ WAS, to the Church who hears, the FIRST-BORN OF THE DEAD of the FESTIVAL OF SHAVOUT.

In 2 Thessalonians, after writing on the subject of the Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him to a church that thought they had missed the rapture and were in the tribulation, Paul concludes in verse 2:15, "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the TRADITIONS (3862 paradosis, transmission, i.e. a concrete precept; specifically the Jewish traditionary law) which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." Paul was not referring to the traditions established by the Jewish priests who expanded the Law and taught their own precepts as doctrine while performing ceremonial traditions with no value. Paul was asserting them to hold fast to the correct interpretation of the traditions of God's Torah Law which they had been taught. That there is a correct order and an appointed time for major events to occur as foreshadowed in the Feasts given by God concerning His Son. This can be witnessed in The Gospel as written by Paul.

1 Corinthians 15:1 (NAS): "Now I make known to you, brethren, THE GOSPEL which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins (Passover) ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day (First Fruits) ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES..."
1 Thessalonians 1:10 (NAS): and to wait for His Son from heaven (Rapture - waiting), whom He raised from the dead (First fruits - past), who delivers us from the wrath to come (Tribulation -future).

1 Thessalonians 4:14 & 5:1,2 (NAS): For if we believe that Jesus died (Passover) and rose again (First Fruits) even [3779 houtos, in this way (referring to what precedes or follows): after (in) this manner] so God will bring with Him (Pentecost) those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. ... Now as to the times (chronos, space of time, duration) and epochs (kairos, a fixed or special occasions, set or proper time) brethren, you have no need of anything be written to you. For you yourselves know fully well...

Paul, on numerous occasions, admonishes his people not to believe that outward religious rituals had anything to do with spiritual victory or sanctification, yet twice he desired to be in Jerusalem on the Festival of Pentecost (Acts 20:16 & 1 Cor. 16:8). Paul understood that the religious festivals serve as object lessons that point us to Christ. This was the only one that he was longing to observe.

Christ became the Passover Lamb on the very day of the Feast of Passover. Christ was the First Fruit on the very day of the Feast of First Fruit. The Holy Spirit came to indwell the church on the very day of Pentecost. Will Christ fulfill His word to come and take His body, His bride to himself in heaven on any old day or will he precisely continue in the traditions He has established and coincide it with Godıs appointed times? God has demonstrated in the past that what He foretells or promises (water), He precisely manifests (bread), so that man can have faith in that what occurs is of God, and that He is faithful in His succeeding word. Revelation 19:10 (NAS): "...For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of Prophecy." Christ should return for His body on a prophecized appointed time. The types and symbols most closely associated with the Christ's resurrection, the Spirit indwelling of the church, and the raising of the dead plus catching away of the living of the church are found in the Jewish Festival of Shavout (First fruits, Weeks, or Pentecost).

The following are excerpts from The Feasts of Israel, by Bruce Scott, The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry, Inc., Chapter 4, Shavout: The Feast of Weeks. Hear how incredible the prophetic shadows of Christ and His body the Church are intricately outlined within this Jewish Festival.

The Feast of Weeks (Ex. 34:22) is also known in Scripture by other names. It is referred to as the "feast of harvest" (Ex. 23:16) because it inaugurated the beginning (Christ was cut off from the earth first) of the wheat harvest (the rapture of the church is a gathering of the wheat). It is called the "day of first fruits" (Num. 28:26) because its primary purpose was to bring a designated portion (Christ first, and then His body) of the harvest, "the first fruits," into the Temple (God's Temple in Heaven) as an act of dedication to God in recognition of His provision (Love and Grace).

Both the so-called Feast of First Fruits (Christ arose) and the Feast of Weeks (church arising) are inextricably linked....together they serve as the bookends of one central theme - First Fruits (being cut off from the earth and given to God). Waving the omer (lifting it into the air for God) denoted the first fruits of the barley harvest, and waving the two loaves (lifting them into the air for God) on Pentecost denoted the first fruits of the wheat harvest. Furthermore, these two occasions were divinely bound together (the Church is Spiritually and eternally bound to Christ) by the injunction to count a certain number of days from the first event to the second because Shavout is not given a fixed date of observance in the Scriptures. You cannot keep the second without keeping the first (Christ the First Fruits, after that those who are His at His coming).

Shavout has also been termed by the rabbis as the Festival of Revelation because it is principally an agricultural holiday and has no memorial significance (the Jews are of prophecy - the church is of revelation of mysteries)....Shavout does not look back to any historical event related to the nation of Israel, as do the holidays of Passover and Tabernacles (the object of Shavout is not a Christ - Israel event, but the substance is of the Christ - Church).

Unlike some of the other festivals, there are only a few precepts assigned to Shavout, and they center around the presentation of the first fruits to God....The Shavout season began with the waving of the omer....they were to bring a sheaf of the first fruits of their harvest unto the priest, and he would wave the sheaf (lift it up into the air) before the Lord (Lev. 23:10-11)....The omer was to be the first and best (Christ) of the year's was usually taken from the area near the Temple (Christ betrayed in the Kidron garden near the Temple) in Jerusalem, especially since the tribe of Judah (the tribe of Judah produced Christ) was known for its high-quality barley....Once the barley first fruits were cut and put into the baskets, the officials carried it back to the Temple area, where it was dried, beaten and thoroughly sifted into fine flour (The officials carried Christ back to the Court of the High Priests, where He was tried, beaten and judged).

The reaping was performed by three Temple officials, each having his own sickle and basket (Caiaphas, the Chief Preist of the Temple; Pilate, the minister of Temple funds; and Herod, who expanded the Temple each, individually, judged Christ and determined that He should be cut-off). Because the omer was considered a meal offering, it was unleavened (Christ was without sin).

Reaping the omer was considered a momentous event, large crowds from neighboring towns gathered to watch (And when they led Him away...there were following Him a great multitude of people). The omer was waved during the early daylight hours (And it was the third hour, 9 a.m., when they crucified Him). The priest took one-tenth of the omer flour and brought it to the bronze alter. He then climbed the ramp and stood on the east side of the alter, where he waved the omer before the lord, swinging the container of sifted flour forward, backward, up and down (Christ is the fulfillment of Passover - the sacrificial lamb that takes away the sins of the world). He then went to the west side of the alter, took a handful of the flour, and threw it into the fire (Christ is the fulfillment of Holocaust - total burnt offering - he descended into hell).

The remainder of the omer meal was given to the priest (Acts 1:2&13; the apostles whom He had chosen, certain women, Mary, and his brothers - eye witnesses to the Holy Spirit) for their personal consumption. After the omer was waived before the Lord, everyone in Jerusalem (Acts 1:5; Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men, from every nation) was permitted to buy, sell, and eat the new produce from the harvest. Those outside the city limits of Jerusalem (Acts 2:39; for all who are far off) had to wait until midday to use the new crops, to insure that the omer had been waived before they took part of the harvest. (This omer, the resurrection of Jesus Christ offered to all through the Holy spirit was to be shared, eaten and consumed to be a life giving substance in the individual, in a methodical order that was foreshadowed in the customs of the feast. Acts 1:8 (NAS): "but you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witness both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth"). The consumption of the remainder of the first fruits of the omer of the first fruits of the new produce was literally being fulfilled on the very day of Pentecost. Acts 2:1; And when the day of Pentecost had come (to implenish completely) they were all together in one place...And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit...

'When the day of Pentecost had come' or 'was fulfilled' does not mean that the entire feast of Shavouy was over and finished. It means that the substance was fulfilling the shadows completely. The sharing of the omer, or indwelling of the Holy Spirit, was being partook during the waiting period until the final reaping would take place. Once the omer was reaped, they began to count the days to the Feast of Shavout. The Bible says it started at the time when the sickle was first put to the grain (Dt. 16: 9) and lasted for seven weeks or 49 days, the 50th day being Shavout (Lev. 23:15-16). Today this numbering process is known as the Counting of the Omer.

Pentecost is also the day of the first fruits...Wheat was the foremost offering because Pentecost occurred at the time of the beginning of the wheat harvest. Tens of thousands of people made their way to Jerusalem for the festival, coming from near and far and from all points of the compass. They came in masse, occasionally the entire membership of a synagogue or whole districts together. As they traveled onward, the holiday pilgrims journeyed up to Jerusalem. During the day they sang songs of praise to God and rejoiced in His goodness (worship). Once near their destination, the excited pilgrims sent word ahead of their imminent arrival. The chief priests and officers of the Temple came out to meet them (the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with the voice of the archangel and the trumpet of God), and the people in the city (the dead in Christ shall rise first) gave the travelers a hearty welcome as they entered and made their way to the Temple Mount ("In My fatherıs house are many dwelling places...I will come again, and receive you to Myself; that where I am there you may be also"). As the pilgrims entered the Temple Court, the Levites sang Psalm 30:1: "I will extol thee, O Lord; FOR THOU HAST LIFTED ME UP, and hast not made my foes to rejoice over me."

On the day of Shavout the waving and offering of the two loaves also took place...Unlike most other meal or grain offerings, God instructed tat the two loaves be baked with leaven (symbolic of the presence of sin, so too the church contains sin which will not be completely purified until the return of Jesus). During the daylight hours of Pentecost, the two loaves were presented to God. Unlike the omer, none of the two loaves was thrown into the fire (Christ took upon Himself the judgment for our sins. There is no longer any trial or judgment left for those in Christ).

The substance of the rapture is outlined in the shadow of the Feast of Pentecost at the time of the grain harvests. As the raising of the First fruit of the omer typifies the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the raising of the first fruits of the two loaves typify the resurrection and life of the church. John 11:25&26 (NAS): I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies (the dead in Christ); and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die (after that those who are alive at His coming). The raising of the two loaves of first fruits, representing the resurrection and life of the church, is a custom that occurs on Pentecost. Following God's framework, the church should be raptured on the very day of Pentecost. I Timothy 6:14&15 (NAS):...until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which He will bring about at the proper time (kaipois idious; His own proper time)...

My reply

I agree with you that the Rapture is most likely on Pentecost. When I wrote my book Revelations 2000, I thought the Rapture would be on Sunday. I have changed my mind on that. In Rev. 1:10, "the Lord's day" can apply to the "days of the Son of man" (Lu. 17:22). Lu. 17:26 says, And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days (i.e., 2 Raptures) of the Son of man."

De. 16:9 (KJV) makes it clear that the first day of the seven weeks are counted with Nisan 16 as day number one, thus placing Pentecost on Sivan 7. It says, "Seven weeks shalt thou number unto thee: begin to number the seven weeks from such time as thou beginnest to put the sickle to the corn." That took place on the morning of Nisan 16, the Feast of Firstfruits.

Thank you for your contribution. Agape

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FWD: New World Order coming upon us fast: From The Toronto Star
"...A United States military report advocates a joint command for American, Mexican and Canadian forces, in the same way the three countries are united under free trade. The report, by Lt.-Col. Joseph Nunez for the U.S. Army War College in Carlisle, Pa., also suggested a North American peacekeeping force, headquartered in the U.S., with deputy commander positions rotating between Canada and Mexico..."

This is, of course, New World Order Region 1

And from Van Impe:
"In the June 22, 1999 issue of PC Magazine, the main subject was "Future Tech 10 Trends That Will Change the Way We Live and Work." In an article called "Your Identity Will Be Digital," author Jake Kirchner wrote, "...The growing use of smard cards, especially outside the U.S., paves the way for their acceptance as standard security devices. A smart card, whether in conjunction with passwords or biometric data, can help protect your digital identity by letting you carry that identity embedded in the chip on your own card, rather than have to store the identifying information in databases scattered across or linked via the Internet. In the future, those chips will be embedded in our clothes and perhaps eventually in our bodies..."

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Updated 7-13-99