Pro and Con 359
Incoming Email Doesn't Enoch represent a first rapture in a series of three?
Enoch = Pre-trib
Noah = Mid-trib
Lot = Post-Trib
Just wondered if the thought had ever crossed your mind?
My reply No. Where would you put Elijah? He was taken up too.
In Mt. 24:33, when we "see all these things (Israel back in the land and growing leaves), know that it (the Rapture) is near, even at the doors." Then in v. 36 and 37, we read, "of that day and hour knoweth no man...But as the DAYS OF NOE were, so shall also THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN BE." Also, both Enoch and Noah were said to "walk with God" (Gen. 5:24; 6:9). They both represent the Pre-Trib Rapture. Enoch actually was taken up--pre-trib, so to speak. Noah was raised up by water (symbol of the Holy Spirit), playing out the Rapture and filling in more details for us. So, I think the Pre-Trib Rapture is like Enoch and as the days of Noah.
Elijah was also taken up. He represents the Tribulation saints twice. The first time is past. "Elisha SAW IT" (2 Ki. 2:12). The second time is still future--Mid-Trib. Rev. 11: 12 says, "And they (Moses and Elijah) heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and THEIR ENEMIES BEHELD THEM." Psa. 40:1-3 shows that at the Pre-Trib Rapture, "MANY SHALL SEE IT, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD." The ascension of Moses and Elijah shows us what will happen when we hear the "Come up hither" in Rev. 4:1.
At the first Rapture, many will see it and trust in the Lord. Those left behind also have a chance to see Moses and Elijah ascend Mid-Trib. It might be on international TV. People are given another sign that they should accept Christ. The Bible is true, and the prophecies are coming to pass right down the line. Moses and Elijah's prophesying is true.
One more Rapture is coming up. It is "as it was in the days of Lot...the SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained FIRE AND BRIMSTONE FROM HEAVEN, and destroyed them all" (Lu. 17:28,29). The second Rapture takes place on the Day of God's Wrath, but before the asteroid pieces impact Earth at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5)."
Therefore, I think Enoch and the days of Noah represent the Pre-Trib Rapture. I think Elijah and the days of Lot represent the Pre-Wrath Rapture.
Incoming Email Re: Love ya Sister! Hello Dear Sister in Christ,
Just a note to encourage you in the Lord. You are doing a great service for His Kingdom and your reward will be great! I cry each time I read a post where you have led someone to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. That is exactly what he has asked us to do - help build His eternal Kingdom.
But I also cried when I read a recent post attacking you for your constant and diligent labor in studying the Word and disseminating it on to us. You are doing a great service - so much more then sitting around "feeling" His love - you are sharing it and helping others understand and know Him. Please continue. You are not a Martha - you are a Mary - for I know you love and worship our King - and HE and HE ALONE is the reason for your work.
Matthew 12:33 says we are known by our fruit. I have followed your site for almost two years and I have seen so much fruit in your efforts! I can't wait to rejoice with those you have led to the Lord when we are all in Glory!! Please continue until that glorious Day when we see the Love of our Lives - JESUS! Love ya' much, your "Good News Club" sister in the Lord
My reply Bless you. Thanks. I thought I was a Mary. I am not constantly involved with housework. I do what I have to as fast as possible and speed off to spend every minute I can with my head stuck in the Bible or looking at my Mac screen and typing away. I stay up late so I can work without distractions too.
> I know you love and worship our King - and HE and HE ALONE is the reason for your work.
You bet. You know what? If I stopped, I don't know what I would do with my time. TV is seldom worth watching. No, that would never do. Bible study is a permanent part of my life. I've grown too attached to it to stop. I think of the Lord saying that king David was a man after His own heart, and Psa. 1:2 saying of David, "his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night." Much love
Incoming Email Hi, the only reason i write is because of two discoveries. One is John 20:22, you have to read before this to see the time is Sunday evening after the crucifixion. The second is Acts 1:2. These two events continued before the day of pentecost. My thinking has changed that pentecost and at the home of Cornelius, the tongues of flame were as a sign to the jews. it was for a sign that the Holy Spirit had come to the jewish believers in Christ and the second showed that the Holy Spirit had come to the gentiles as well. For God to make certain that the people knew what He intended.
My reply In "THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO LUKE," Luke told what Jesus "BEGAN both to do and teach." In the fifth book of the New Testament, which is "THE ACTS OF THE APOSTLES," Luke told what Jesus CONTINUED to do and teach through His Holy Spirit sent down after He ascended.
Here we have the commencement, the very beginnings, of the ministry for this age. It commenced in three stages, in Judea, then in Samaria, then it went out to the Gentiles in all the world. In Acts 1:8, Jesus had told the apostles, "ye shall be witnesses unto me both in JERUSALEM, and in all JUDAEA, and in SAMARIA, and unto THE UTTERMOST PART OF THE EARTH." Peter was given keys to start the ball rolling for these groups. First, the Jews (on Pentecost), then the mixed Samaritans, then the Gentiles.
(Step 1) At JERUSALEM on Pentecost, "there appeared unto them (the 'apostles,' 1:26) CLOVEN TONGUES LIKE AS BY FIRE, and it SAT UPON EACH OF THEM. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost" (Acts 2:3,4).
(Step 2) After that, when these things took place in SAMARIA, the gospel began to go out to all nations. Philip preached in Samaria, and "when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." After hearing of that, Peter and John went to Samaria, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost." Then Peter and John LAID "THEIR HANDS ON THEM, and they received the Holy Ghost" (Acts 8:12-17).
(Step 3) Later, at CORNELIUS' HOUSE, Peter said, "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in EVERY NATION he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him" (Acts 10:34,35). In Acts 10:39-44, he said, "we are witnesses of all things which he (Jesus) did...Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. And he commanded us to preach...that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost FELL ON ALL THEM which heard the word."
Incoming Email I recall that recently someone told you the Lord said there was still one more prophecy to be fulfilled, that it would be obvious, and that some might not even know about it before the rapture happens....
That sure sound to me like the peace agreement over Israel, don't you think? It would make sense that the rapture would almost coincide with the signing of the agreement. Anyway, God bless!
My reply I think there is a gap between the Rapture and the Tribulation, when the covenant is confirmed. In Rev. 17:12, the ten kings "have received no kingdom as yet." That is at the time of the Rapture. In Rev. 13:1, all ten kings are crowned as the Tribulation begins.
Incoming Email Barolo82@aol.com wrote:
Hi Marilyn, A few months before Pentecost 1998 I warned you that your understanding of the Rapture was carnal and that it would not happen as you predicted. You took no heed.
I continued to tell you your idea of a Pentecost 1999 Rapture was all wet and you again took no heed. Strike two.
I told you that as long as you sought a date for the Rapture, God would oblige you and keep giving you dates. After all, he says "I shall choose their delusions".
Now here you are again with Pentecost 2000 as the date.
Since I am three for three so far, I must be a pretty good prophet. So I predict, again, that there will be no physical, visible, temporal, natural Rapture on Pentecost 2000. I will be four for four, but for you it will be strike 3.
Marilyn, the Rapture is a spiritual event - each believer who has had the Holy Spirit poured out on them has been "raptured", and that is their "Pentecost". If you continue to seek the "letter" of the Word, it will continue to "kill" you. See 2 Corinthians 3:6.
My reply I feel so sorry for you. Someone has sold you a bill of goods on this spiritual and temporal, spirit and letter-of-the-Word stuff. It is not true. The Bible means what it says. You will find out soon enough.
I don't call myself a prophet, and never have. I would be scared to death to call myself a prophet. I read the Bible and try to figure out what it means. That is all.
His reply Barolo82@aol.com wrote:
Dear Marilyn, In a message dated 7/10/99 2:29:00 AM, you wrote: I feel so sorry for you. Someone has sold you a bill of goods on this spiritual and temporal, spirit and letter-of-the-Word stuff. It is not true.
Marilyn, the con man who sold me this "bill of goods" is named Paul. Keep a sharp eye out for him. Because he taught me in 2 Corinthians 3:6
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of THE LETTER, but of THE SPIRIT; for THE LETTER KILLS, but THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.
You see only THE LETTER of the Word, the types and figures, the shadows, but you do not see the light that casts the shadows. You see the literal, and cannot see the Truth, which is allegorical. You see the visible and temporal, the "figures", when you should be seeing that which is invisible and eternal. Paul also sold me this "bill of goods" in 2 Corinthians 4:18
18 While we LOOK NOT AT THE THINGS WHICH ARE SEEN (VISIBLE), but at the things WHICH ARE NOT SEEN (INVISIBLE): for the things which are seen are TEMPORAL, but the things which are not seen are ETERNAL.
Marilyn, you look at the things which are seen and temporal in the Scriptures, rather than looking for the eternal and invisible meaning. The language of the Rapture is spiritual language - each believer that has ever been saved is caught up in the air to be with the Lord forever - in Spirit, and not in letter.
Until you can come to terms with these two verses I have quoted for you, you will remain "under the prince of the power of the air", which is the "letter" of the Word that "kills".
My reply > 2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not
> of THE LETTER, but of THE SPIRIT; for THE LETTER KILLS, but THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.
You misunderstand Paul. The contrast between the letter that kills and the Spirit that gives life is not between literalism and a free handling of the scriptures, such as in the allegorical method of interpretation. The contrast is between the Law that requires perfect obedience for salvation and salvation by grace, in which the Spirit of God indwells believers and seals us until the day of redemption. The contrast is between Law and Grace, i.e., between the letter that kills and the Spirit that gives life.
Salvation by the Law was written on tables of stone. It concerned death and the deadness of the letter that was not able to save. It was a ministry of death. However, it was temporary. It was our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. It showed us what sin is, and by sin, the whole human race was condemned. Therefore, we needed a Saviour.
Salvation by the gospel of grace was written on fleshy hearts in the power of the Holy Spirit. It is a ministry of life by means of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Christ's death took sin out of the way as an issue in salvation. Now, it is what think ye of Christ? Whose son is he?
We have a new covenant, a Last Will and Testament that became effective upon the death of the testator. It superceded the previous covenant of the letter of the Law. This new covenant requires a new man. He is a new creature with a new name who observes a new commandment and is indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
In studying the Dispensation of the Law, we find that the letter of the Law is inferior to the Dispensation of Grace, in which Christ's righteousness is imputed to believers, and they are sealed by the Spirit of Christ. The Law had a certain glory, but the new dispensation exceeds in glory.
The ministry of the Law is condemnation. The ministry of the Spirit is life and more glorious. II Cor. 3:8-11 says, "How shall not the MINISTRATION OF THE SPIRIT be rather glorious? For if the MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory....For if that which is done away (the letter of the Law) was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." So, the letter of the Law was set aside that the dispensation of the Spirit might remain.
II Cor. 4:18:
> While we LOOK NOT AT THE THINGS WHICH ARE SEEN (VISIBLE), but at the things
> WHICH ARE NOT SEEN (INVISIBLE): for the things which are seen are TEMPORAL,
> but the things which are not seen are ETERNAL.
The Greek "proskairos," translated "temporal," means temporary, enduring but for a season or time. It is the ephemeral and evanescent in contrast to the abiding and eternal. It is not talking about a system of allegorical interpretation of Scripture. The next verses go on to say, "FOR we know that, if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven."
Paul contrasts many things, the hidden and the open, the blinded and the enlightened, slaves and the Master, darkness and light, the frail and the mighty, trials and triumphs, death and life, the written and the spoken, the past and the future, grace and thanksgiving, the outer man and the inner man, affliction and glory, the seen and the unseen, the temporary earthly life and the eternal heavenly life. Our troubles are temporal, but our triumphs are eternal.
> language of the Rapture is spiritual language - each believer that has ever been saved
> is caught up in the air to be with the Lord forever - in Spirit, and not in letter.
You will find out. In I Thess. 4:14-18, Paul also said, "if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you BY THE WORD OF THE LORD, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (Old English for preceed) them which are asleep. For the Lord himself SHALL descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ SHALL rise first: Then we which are alive and remain SHALL be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so SHALL we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."
Are you comforting others with these words as instructed by the Lord? I think not. Instead, you say that the Rapture is "not in letter." You are setting yourself at odds with the Lord's Word.
Jesus said, "Watch." Why? because we were NOT supposed to watch? Not hardly. He meant what he said, and I am watching. Sorry if you are not.
> Until you can come to terms with these two verses I have quoted for you, you will remain
> "under the prince of the power of the air", which is the "letter" of the Word that "kills".
The prince of the power of the air would just love for everyone to believe you. Lucky for them, they don't. They believe what Paul said here "BY THE WORD OF THE LORD."
All Scripture is God-breathed. The Lord knows how to say what he means. You just don't believe that he says what he means. I believe every word He says. You are making the Word of God of none effect, and you don't have a whole lot of time to wake up, either. We are very likely on the bell lap in this race for "the PRIZE of the HIGH CALLING of God in Christ Jesus" (Phil. 3:14). Good luck.
Incoming Email I am confused about the times that Satan is cast down to earth. On your time line, you say,
"...3) Mid-Tribulation, 3 1/2 years into the seven, Sunday, Cheshvan 23, Nov. 7, 2004
a. Satan is cast out of Heaven and down to Earth..."
If he is cast down to earth in 2004, how can he also be cast down to earth on the last day when his asteroid hits earth in 2007 (mentioned in your books)? Thanks!
My reply Satan and his asteroid are two separate things. Satan and his fallen angels are cast down to Earth Mid-Trib. They are no longer on the asteroid when it is cast down later, on the Day of God's Wrath.
Rev. 12:7-9 says of Mid-Trib, when there are only 1260 days of the 7 years left, "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; NEITHER WAS THEIR PLACE FOUND ANY MORE IN HEAVEN. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was CAST OUT INTO THE EARTH, and his angels were cast out with him."
Eze. 28:14-17 tells essentially the same story. It says, "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth (lit., guards); and I have set thee so (the flaming sword of Gen. 3:24): thou wast upon the holy mountain of God (Heaven); thou hast walked up and down in the midst (first on the planet Rahab, then on a piece of it) of the stones of fire (planets)....I will cast thee (Satan, the guarding cherub) as profane out of the mountain of God: AND I will destroy thee, O covering (guarding) cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire (from the asteroid in the midst of the planets)....I will cast thee to the ground (Earth)."
Incoming Email Thank you for your reply. As far as the 49 years of Daniel having anything to do with the SuperNova, it doesn't make any sense to me. The seven sevens plus the 62 sevens add up to 483 which have already been accounted for in your timetable. You can't use them again! I agree the 49 may be significant in another prophesy, but not the 70 weeks prophesy.
If you are trying to say that the 49 years are the first ones again, what you are really saying is that the first 69 sevens was a hoax and 1950 is the start of Daniel's 70 weeks and so now we have another 434 years to wait for the Messiah. I don't think you should imply that to anyone at all.
Thank you for your information on the two authors. I will do the research, because it is obvious that this is where all the question marks still are in the timetable. By the way, I think your time table is awesome. Very logical and concise. I still think that something is amiss in the 70 sevens and requires more research. I suspect this will alter your calendar eventually. I will try to update you with my results. I have more evidence than what I shared with you that the end of Daniel's 69 weeks refers to the Birth of Christ and not the death. This will also affect the calendar. I think the Lord has enlightened me to what the first seven seven's is all about and I think it will clear up both the Ptolemy vs Anstey debate and solve all the calendar problems. In the end I suspect Ptolemy's calendar will be more correct than Anstey's. Its the only way the world will accept the prophesy as being from God and not derived from the religious right.
Have you ever thought of including Ptolemy's, Anstey's, or Cooper's calendar's on your Web site? By the way, any idea how I can get a copy of Ptolemy's calendar?
My reply > 483 which have already been accounted for in your timetable. You can't use them again!
Why can't I use them again? Lots of prophecies have double fulfilments.
> so now we have another 434 years to wait for the Messiah. I don't think
> you should imply that to anyone at all.
If you have read much of my Web site, you should know that I do not imply that at all. That is preposterous, and you know it. :-)
> By the way, I think your time table is awesome. Very logical and concise.
Thanks. I knew the majority of it back in 1968, and have looked at Scripture all along the way since to see if it holds water. The hard thing to decide is the Rapture. The year 1998 was so marked, I thought sure that would be it. Anyway, now I am expecting the Rapture next Pentecost, 2000.
> more research. I suspect this will alter your calendar eventually. I will try to update
> you with my results. I have more evidence than what I shared with you that the end of
> Daniel's 69 weeks refers to the Birth of Christ and not the death
I studied Bible chronology without any presuppositions. I suggest that you do the same. Let it say what it says, without trying to make it fit anything.
Dan. 9:26 says, And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (karath; Gesenius: killed; Strong's 3772, perish, cut down, destroy; Young's: cut down), but not for himself." It doesn't mean born.
I would appreciate your sharing anything you turn up. Happy hunting. One thing to look for first in a book on Bible chronology is the date of the Flood. If it is anything but 1656 AH, everything after that will have to be adjusted. Another thing to look for is the age of Abraham's call. It should be when he was 75. That way you can get some idea whether the book merits your time.
> In the end I suspect Ptolemy's calendar will be more correct than Anstey's. Its the only way
the world will accept the prophesy as being from God and not derived from the religious right.
What the world will or will not accept has no bearing on the truth. The "religious right" might be right sometimes, you know.
> Have you ever thought of including Ptolemy's, Anstey's, or Cooper's
> calendar's on your Web site?
My chron.html is close to Anstey's. I started with his, made small adjustments in two or three places where I found tiny errors, then added to it throughout my 38+ years of study. All the Double Checks are mine.
I have no room for other chronologies. I have posted what I think is correct.
> By the way, any idea how I can get a copy of Ptolemy's calendar?
Go to a University library and do a computer search for Ptolemy. The one you want was the geographer and astronomer who flourished at Alexandria about 130 AD, not the Ptolemies who ruled in Egypt from about 323 to 30 BC. If a University library is not convenient, enlist the help of a local librarian at the Reference Desk. They have data bases online that they can find things I can't. It would probably only take them a couple of days at most if they do not have anything in their library. They are so busy during regular hours that the ones I have used prefer to do that kind of search after hours. Once found, you can get the book you need on an Inter-library loan.
Incoming Email Have been visiting your website, on and off, for many months now. I find the discussions very interesting and enjoyable. I have read Exit 2000 (as I had indicated to you previously) and was particularly fascinated with your insight into the 400's and the fit you found by starting in 1517.
I, however, can't shake the feeling that world population reaching 6,000,000,000 at this critical time is not insignificant. I feel this way because 6 has been such a significant number in man's history, which, even though I'm sure you're aware of the following, I submit:
6 Day of man's creation
600 Age of Noah at time of the Flood
6000 Years of History (per Talmud) and early Christian writings
600,000 Number of Israelites leaving Egypt and also crossing Jordan (per Book of Numbers)
Also no. of Jews in the land at start of 1948 war
6,000,000 Stated number of Jews murdered in Holocoust
6,000,000,000 World population at approx 7:00p.m. 07/18/99
by my calculations based upon U.S. census bureau website:
It also appears more than coincidence that Tisha b'Av follows exactly three days later on July 22.
Once again Marilyn, just a thought at this exciting period in the Lord's beautiful master plan. Watching
My reply Thanks for those nice things you said.
> the 400's and the fit you found by starting in 1517.
That was the beginning of the Reformation, the Sardis period, so it seemed pre-planned.
> world population reaching 6,000,000,000 at this critical time is not insignificant.
I think it is significant too. You might look up the population of Israel now and of Jerusalem. My memory on this is hazy, but it seems to me that Dr. Tabor pointed out that the populations of these were nearing something starting with a 6 too. There were three. Jerusalem and the world were two of them. It is the third I am not sure of, but think Israel is likely.
I am watching too. Agape
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