Pro and Con 366

Uploaded 7-31-99

Incoming Email with My Reply interspersed

Ralph Cullen wrote:
> ...Often people quote scriptures and not taking them in the context, they tend to get
> a wrong slant on things....

***From Marilyn: Re: MAN's rule about interpreting Scripture according to the context. The context must always be taken into consideration, but slavishly adhered to can cause you can miss some things. For instance: Colossians is written to those in Colosse in the first century, AND TO "THEM THAT ARE IN LAODICEA" AND TO "THE CHURCH OF THE LAODICEANS" (Col. 4:13,16) in our days.

***Tucked into verse 10 is a hidden message to the Laodiceans of our days. We have to have eyes to see, or we will miss it. It has NOTHING to do with the context. Verse 10 says, "Aristarchus my fellow prisoner saluteth you, and Marcus, sister's son to Barnabas, (touching whom ye received commandments: if he come unto you, receive him;)." The ten commandments came by way of Moses. He will come unto the Laodiceans as one of the two witnesses during the first half of the Tribulation (Rev. 11:3-12). They should receive him.

***The Lord told us, "Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for HID TREASURES; Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God" (Prov. 2:3-5). Isa. 27:9,10 explains, "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept...line upon line; here a little, and there a little."

> > the preterist interpretation. It doesn't make sense.

> ...I guess I was fortunate, in that I was raised in a church that was very Bible based and
> evangelical, yet never preached a strong eschatology. That didn't stop my hunger for truth
> though, and like all young people who hunger for God, I soon found - as a teenager I read as
> much as I could and listened a lot to radio preachers. As you probably realize, most radio
> preachers, and by this I refer to those found on missionary radio stations (No Christian
> broadcasting whatsoever in New Zealand in the 60's) were all strongly pretrib and
> dispensational to the hilt. People like "Back to the Bible" were my staple diet. I remember
> listening to Theodore Epp expounding on the secret rapture and its pretribulation timing.
> Later I read Chic tracts and got to see the whole Anti Christ expectation. In the very
> early seventies Hal Lindseys book came out and every one was reading it. Predictions
> abounded about the tribulation and the antichrist....I decided to study as hard as I
> could to "See if these things be so". Like a good Berean, I decided to just read the
> Bible....

> Issue number 1: The timing of the Rapture: All the pretribers I read contended
> for a Rapture before the Tribulation....This really bothered me a young man. I wanted it
> to be so, for the images of antichrist put about by all these ones mentioned was horrific!
> I first went to the Olivet discourse. I read it again and again. I didn't understand laws of
> interpretation as I do now, but I found myself applying them even before understanding them.
> Law number One: Plain meaning first: Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation,
> such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
> Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but
> for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. be gathered together...Immediately
> after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not
> give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall
> be shaken: Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then
> shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the
> clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with
> a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds,
> from one end of You know these scriptures so well I do not need to repeat them at all,
> but What I saw was this:
> a) There shall be great tribulation
> b) Never been like it before, never again after...
> c) The days needed to be short because of the elect...
> d) Immediately AFTER those days there would be signs...and there would be
> the Son of Man coming in great glory.
> e) He would gather his Elect...
> It was obvious that the gathering of God's Elect...was after the tribulation.

***...Mt. 24:31 does not refer to the Pre-Wrath Rapture. Read it carefully. It says, "he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet (the "last trump" of I Cor. 15:51,52), and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of HEAVEN to the other." Those being gathered in Heaven got there at the Pre-Trib Rapture. Now, on the 2300th day (Dan. 8:14) of the Tribulation, they are gathered to the assembly IN HEAVEN. The important thing to see is that those saints are already IN HEAVEN.

***Now read Mark 13:27. It gives us one other thing that happens that day. "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part OF THE EARTH (the Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Tribulation saints) to the uttermost part OF HEAVEN" (the Church saints who were caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture).

***Dan. 12:1,2 helps us understand the timing of the Pre-Wrath Rapture. It says, "AND at that time (when the False Prophet "shall come to his end," Dan. 11:45) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the CHILDREN of thy people: and there shall be a TIME OF TROUBLE (Day of God's Wrath, Time of Jacob's Trouble), SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME: and AT THAT TIME thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake."

***Psa. 27:5 says, "For IN THE TIME OF TROUBLE he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall SET ME UP UPON A ROCK" (Heaven, the third planet out from the Earth, II Cor. 12:2).

***Here, the "secret of his tabernacle" refers to Heaven being as the Holy of Holies, the third such cube portrayed by the dimensions of the tabernacle. If you scribe a circle touching all sides in the Holy of Holies, leave the same setting on your compass, then scribe two circles in the Holy Place, you depict the three heavens that have the length and breadth and height equal (Rev. 21:16). I think that the three heavens are Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, the planet that has a halo. The Lord refers to his bow. Heaven has a rainbow around it, the sunlight shining on ice crystals.

> Other things that bothered me: a) There was to be a "Time after" or Jesus would never
> have said that there will not be tribulation like tha after. b) The elect (I presumed
> the believers for we are called "Elect" in many places) would need to be spared, and
> if spared than present on earth - not off in heaven somewhere.

***There are three groups of the elect, OT saints, Church saints and Tribulation saints. I think all these will be in Heaven when God's Wrath is poured out on unbelievers on the Earth. Rev. 11:17,18 explains: "thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned (it is also Jesus' Coronation Day) And the nations were angry (attacking Israel, Eze. 38), and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged (at the Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and to the SAINTS, and them that fear thy name, small and great (all are there in Heaven); and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

***When the two main pieces of the asteroid of Rev. 8:8,10 impact Earth, "there shall be many dead bodies in every place" (Amos 8:3). The men left will be so few that a child could write the number (Isa. 10:19). There will be a worldwide earthquake, and every wall will fall (Ezek. 38:20). Only unbelievers are on Earth, because all that call on the name of the Lord are caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture as if out of a fiery furnace. I think that takes place on the 1040th day from Mid-Trib (2300 [Dan. 8:14] - 1260 [Rev. 11:3] = 1040).

***Later on, the remnant that lives on into the Millennium will be joined by resurrected Israelites. On the 1335th day from the middle of the Tribulation, Daniel will stand in his lot in Israel (Dan. 12:13). King David will be put back on his throne. Hos. 3:5 explains, "Afterward shall the children of Israel RETURN, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD an his goodness IN THE LATTER DAYS." Eze. 37:24 says, "David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they ALL shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. And THEY SHALL DWELL IN THE LAND that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children FOR EVER."

***Jer. 30:9-11 says, "They shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, WHOM I WILL RAISE UP UNTO THEM. Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar (Heaven), and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished."

***Eze. 34:23-26 says, "I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince AMONG THEM; I the LORD have spoken it. And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods...there shall be showers of blessing."

> Now, having totally lost trust in the secret pretribulation rapture preachers because of this
> simple and so obvious scripture, I wanted to see about the "Abomination of Desolation"...

***The "Abomination of Desolation" is the idol of Rev. 13:14,15. This idol is copied and placed elsewhere also. Dan. 9:27 says, "in the midst of the week (the Tribulation) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations (idols) he shall make it (the temple) desolate, even until the consummation" (of the Tribulation).

> ...I went back to the Olivet Discourse and discovered this:

>
> Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel
> the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) ...Why would
> the Lord hide the meaning and say "Let the reader understand"? I didn't know. Until I
> understood the second basic Law of interpretation. Historical / Linguistic CONTEXT.
> Who wrote Matthews Gospel? Answer: MATTHEW.
> Who was it written to? Answer: JEWISH believers...A PUBLIC letter.
>
> Now the parallel Scripture in Marks Gospel:
> Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the
> prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that
> be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
> Again, Who was Mark's Gospel written to? Answer: Christians in ROME. A PUBLIC letter.
>
> Third Parallel Scripture:
> Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know
> that the desolation thereof is nigh.
>
> Who wrote Lukes Gospel? Answer LUKE. Who did Luke write his Gospel to?
> Answer: THEOPHILUS, his dear and personal friend.
>
> These passages are clearly and obviously parallel scriptures. Who added the parenthesis?
> Matthew and Mark. Why? Because of the Romans. Luke didn't need to be guarded about the fact
> that Jesus plainly said that the sign of the Tribulation would be Jerusalem Compassed by
> armies. Now everyone has the Bible and Luke's Gospel. It is no longer secret as to what
> the abomination is or was.

***The abomination is the idol placed in the temple. It is placed there by the False Prophet. It takes place Mid-Trib, and at the same time, Jerusalem is encompassed with armies.

***Lu. 21:20-24a took place in the first century. It serves to demonstrate what will happen during the last half of the Tribulation. From Lu. 21:24b through 27 will take place at the end of this age. It will culminate in the Sign of the Son of Man of Mt. 24:30.

***Here is what it says about the first century: "And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give such, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land; and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and SHALL BE LED AWAY CAPTIVE INTO ALL NATIONS; and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles,

***(Now it hops to our times, 1967 to be exact) UNTIL THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES BE FULFILLED." THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES WERE FULFILLED when Israel took the rest of Jerusalem in the Six-Day war June 7, 1967...

***The next verse hops to the day the sixth seal is broken (Rev. 6:12). It is the last day of this age. When 6:00 PM comes, it will be the first day of the Millennium, the Day of God's Wrath. It is the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture, but that is not in view here. That is in Mk. 13:27. "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring. Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory" This is the Sign of the Son of Man, as in Mt. 24:30, not the Second Advent, which is still seven months future (Eze. 39:12).

***Verse 28 speaks directly to us. It says, "And when these things BEGIN to come to pass (in the Six-Day War of 1967), then LOOK UP, AND LIFT UP YOUR HEADS: FOR YOUR REDEMPTION DRAWETH NIGH." The Pre-Trib Rapture is near.

***Next, Jesus gives us the parable in verses 29-33: "Behold the fig tree (Israel), and all the trees (other nations); When they now shoot forth (push at each other in war), ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand (the Six-Day War started June 5, summer June 21). So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, KNOW ye that the KINGDOM OF GOD IS NIGH AT HAND (i.e., the Pre-Trib Rapture is near). Verily (Gr.,"AMEN," i.e., so be it) I say unto you, This generation (born when the Six-Day War took place) shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away."

***Verses 34-36 speak directly to us: "And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be oversharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day (the Tribulation) come upon you unawares. For as a snare (trap) shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the WHOLE EARTH (Rev. 3:10). Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man" (at the Pre-Trib Rapture, Preview: Rev. 1:12-18, actual: "Come up hither," Rev. 4:1).

> ...The Third Law of interpretation I discovered was about word usage. The law is, that words
> mean what they say. This was an interesting one, for many people in the churches I became
> associated with were strong into typology and symbolism. One preacher especially executed
> what I later found out to be the very Gnostic method of making words mean something else
> ...always. This was touted as being "spiritual" I give an example: The church is often
> seen as a woman in the scriptures. As a Bride especially. These people would then interpret
> every reference to a woman as being about the church. They were ignoring the second rule
> which is the one of Context. The Woman is only the church when the context SAYs it is the
> church... eg Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and
> gave himself for it;...etc. The CONTEXT here is relationship between Christ and His Church,
> but is also using that relationship to teach about how Husbands and Wives should relate.

***When Scripture is talking about the church as a woman, it does NOT always SAY it is the church. In Rev. 17, the harlot is obviously the harlot CHURCH. The word "church" is not used lest we think the church saints Raptured in Rev. 4:1 are present during the Tribulation.

***In Mt. 25, the wise virgins are the church. Yet it does not say so. Why? for the same reason as in Rev. 17. The foolish virgins are present during the Tribulation. They were part of the church, but were cut off at the Pre-Trib Rapture, because of their lack of enough of the Holy Spirit, and became Tribulation saints. Lu. 12:46 explains, "The lord of that servant (the foolish one) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion WITH THE UNBELIEVERS" (i.e., during the 2300-day shortened Tribulation).

***Mt. 24:41 doesn't say that the women are the church, either, but they are. It says, "Two women (i.e., a wise virgin and a foolish virgin) shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

***Zech. 5:5-11 doesn't say that the woman is the harlot church, but it is. It depicts the time that Vatican City is moved to Babylon "and set there upon her own base," the base of the Tower of Babel in the land of Shinar (Gen. 11:2). That is where the Mystery Religion of Babylon started.

> Anyway... One of the words that I heard being twisted out of all context and meaning was the
> word "Generation" in Mat 24:34...The current fashion is to make it say "THAT" generation,
> (IE the one that sees the Start of these things, Like Hal Lindsey said the 1948 setting up
> of modern Israel) Or now I see you using the 1967 War as the "Starting point" I couldn't
> get around that verse, because the PLAIN meaning (First Law) said "THIS GENERATION" I.E.
> the people standing listening to Jesus speak. That is the PLAIN MEANING, and unless STRONGLY
> overruled by other scriptures (of which I can find none) means just what it says.

***The key to understanding the length of a generation is close by. In Mt. 23:36, Jesus told the Pharisees, "Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon THIS GENERATION." Those things did, in just 40 years, from 30 AD to 70 AD.

***With the knowledge that a generation is 40 years, read the parable of the fig tree in Mt. 24:32-34 to see when to start counting the last 40 years. It is when the fig tree (Israel) grows. It did that in 1967. It did not grow in 70 AD. At that time, Jerusalem was plowed like a field. The Jews were dispersed among the nations. The nation of Israel did not exist, much less grow.

> This simple belief in God's word lead me to believe that at least some (esp the Tribulation,
> which we KNOW happened when Titus sent armies in on Jerusalem) were fulfilled in THAT
> GENERATION.

***Read Mt. 32-34 very carefully. It answers the question put to Jesus about what would be the sign of his coming and the end of the age (v. 3). Jesus answered, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree (Israel, Joel 1:6,7, Hos. 9:10; Eze. 36:8; Jer. 24:5,6); When his branch (klados, scion broken off for grafting; i.e., after being cut off in 70 AD, then grafted into her old rootstock again in 1948) is yet tender (apalos, young; i.e., no more than 19), and putteth forth leaves (grows; as in the Six-Day War of 1967), ye know that summer is nigh (the war started June 5, summer June 21): So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things (Israel back in the land and growing), know that it (the Rapture) is near, even at the doors (Rev. 3:8). Verily I say unto you, This generation (that saw Israel grow) shall not pass, till all these things (the Tribulation, up to the 2300th day) be fulfilled." The year 1967 + 40 = 2007. The 2300th day of the Tribulation ends on the Feast of Trumpets (Joel 2:1-3). The Feast of Trumpets is Sept. 13, 2007.

***This jibes with the seven good years and the seven bad years starting on Sept. 13, 1993, when the Oslo Accords were signed. They were ratified in Israel three days later, on Tishri 1. Tishri 1, 5754 + 14 = Tishri 1, 5768, which is Sept. 13, 2007. The Lord is trying to show you, if you will only be open to it. You want to believe that you will see your grandchildren on this Earth, but you will be in Heaven, a better place.

***Jesus is now in Heaven. He said, "I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also" (Jn. 14:2,3).

> I'm sure you know these things for they are simple and obvious, but the word
> generation as used here always means the contemporaries of the day.
>
> The Millenium:
> Again, my interest was stirred to investigate this sacred Dispensational time. I must add
> before I go on: You called me a Preterist... I do not claim to be a Preterist, but maybe
> some of what they teach has merrit. I don't know. All I do know is that Preterists that
> I have read rely on Scripture plain and simple. It is a giant leap I know, for many of us,
> for we imbibed most of our doctrine from tradition and hearsay. No, I wouldn't call myself
> a Preterist at this stage, but I certainly have discovered the Post Millennial view to
> hold some substantial merit... Not that Amillenialism doesn't also. Maybe Im somewhere in
> between... In transition so to speak.
>
> I must add at this time in my discussion, that much is either lost or found, seen or missed,
> depending on how we view the Jews. One of Hal Lindsey's strong points was how the Jews were
> God's people, that the church was in a parenthesis, and that the Lord was just wanting us
> out of here so that His "Prophetic Clock" could start ticking again. I think this is actually
> the hinge pin upon which the Millenium doctrine hangs rather than any other issue. I could
> argue about Resurrections and Raptures until the cows come home (as we say in NZ) but it
> would do no good to anyone who is convinced that the JEWS are God's people. (especially I
> mean)...
>
> I simply realized that as the scriptures so plainly teach: Phil 3:3 "For we are the
> circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no
> confidence in the flesh." that the people of God are those who have come to faith in Jesus
> Christ, with no reference to race, religion (former) or colour. In Christ there is no Jew or
> Greek.
>
> When Jesus spoke to the Woman at the well in Samaria he made an amazing statement:
> John 4:21 "Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain,
> nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father."
>
> The time is coming... The confirming of the Abrahamic Covenant and the New Covenant made
> in His blood... NEITHER in Jerusalem or Samaria...
> In other words, Jerusalem was to become of NO consequence to God in the new order of things.
> Galatians is full of this. Jerusalem that is now - Is a harlot, Paul Wrote. Born of Hagar
> and in bondage....Jerusalem from above is free and is the mother of us all. This is the NEW
> Jerusalem, coming down from God in Revelation 21. OBVIOUSLY and Plainly the CHURCH. The
> Bride of the Lamb, with foundations of Apostles...
>
> Then of course Jesus cried over the earthly city - the one that killed the
> prophets, and pronounced desolation on her.
>
> In answer to your question: How can I believe the fulfillment of all of those prophecies.
> The answer is simple. Believe the words of Jesus. Not only that though, for I am sure you
> believe Jesus words.. Also important is to loose the grip that ingrained dispensationalism
> holds on your mind. It was easy for me, for I only learned it in my teenage years. I never
> had the strong background in it like most Southern Baptists probably do. Lastly, Look for
> the Church in the Old Testament... Paul says its there. I believe it is too. E.G. Isa 2:2
> And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be
> established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all
> nations shall flow unto it...
>
> Last Days = The end of the Old Covenant.....(Hebrew 1, Acts 2 etc...) Mountain of the
> Lords House.. Mountains always speak of Government... This IS a symbolic word (by the
> context) Lords House = Where God dwells... In temples made without hands.....
>
> 1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit
> of God dwelleth in you?...
>
> ...I agree, we must all be ready for him at any time, but the overriding mandate as I see
> in the scripture, is to "Go, make disciples of all nations" with no "ifs", "buts" and
> "maybes."
>
> Lastly, as you said in your previous email... I see the attitude that says there can be
> no reformation before us so real bad. I would give up now if I believed that. God has
> declared that all the earth will be full of His Glory as the waters cover the sea.

***He also said, "Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire. And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day. And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standardbearer fainteth. And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them" (Isa. 10:16-19).

> Peter on the day of Pentecost declared that Jesus was seated on His Throne and would stay
> there until ALL enemies are under His feet. Whether you are a Pre Millenialist, Post, A
> or Preterist, that scripture makes it Very Clear that Victory for the Gospel and the
> Church is God's intention... Not defeat OR escape.

***All nations, i.e., the united nations, will be under his feet on the Day of God's Wrath. The united nations' army under Gog will attack Israel (Eze. 38). As for "escape," reread Lu. 21:36.

> What we do with all of this is of course up to us. If we want a third world war (which
> some seem to), if we want an antichrist system to rule the world, which many seem to
> really desire, then so be it. I don't, and I see no reason why, even as Ninevah repented
> and God's judgement was turned away, that it cannot be so today. History is not prewritten.

Yes it is. When the Lord says something, that is exactly how it will go down.

> ...This kind of doctrine (Dispensationalism) has robbed the church of Her Glory and her
> inheritance...As I said: you may write me off, and continue looking the way you are, or
> you could reconsider as I did....

***I am steadfast, because I understand and accept what the Lord has prewritten for our days.

> I am glad to say, that after 8 years of marriage, we finally cast off the "terminal
> generation" curse and mentality and had children. I intend to see my children's
> children... according to God's glorious promise and Grace.

***Good luck. You are interpreting Scripture to suit your personal wants. I have the blessed hope of the Rapture set before me. You deny it. John said, "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when HE SHALL APPEAR, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this HOPE in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure" (I John 3:2,3).

***We "should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world: LOOKING FOR THAT BLESSED HOPE, AND THE GLORIOUS APPEARING OF THE GREAT GOD AND OUR SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST" (Titus, 2:12,13).

> Ralph.
> P.S. I understand that much scholarly work has fixed the Revelation date at around 68 AD.

***The years 95 or 96 AD are most likely. See Swete, Milligan, Moffatt and Zahn. Evidence from Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria and Eusebius shows that John's banishment to Patmos was in the reign of Domition (81-96 AD).

> God bless you.
> P.P.S. 1 Thes 4:15-18 says nothing about going away to heaven... Rev 5:10 We
> shall reign on the earth"

***Rev. 5:10, in the KJV says, "and we shall reign on the earth." The word "epi" is translated in Green's Interlinear as "over." Verse 10 says, "And You have made us kings and priests to our God. And we shall rule over the earth." You are fooling yourself. You only see what you want to see. You, in effect, are saying that the Lord is delaying his coming. That is most dangerous. I do not want to stand in your shoes.

> The problems in interpretation arise when one separates the people of God into "groups"
> like "Tribulation Saints", "Jewish believers" "Christians" "Carnal Christians" etc etc...
> Its simple really. We are either saved or lost... based on our faith in Jesus Christ and
> His work on the Cross. What happens to each individual is all to do with maturity and
> fruitfulness. The scriptures are very clear... Cheers.

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