Pro and Con 375

Uploaded 8-120-99

Incoming Email

As per your question about, "Palomar star search spots light that stumps experts. Object's spectrum never before seen," I can't remember where I saw the article but I think I remember them saying that it was in the constellation of Serpens. Hope this helps and please keep up the good work. I'm sure many treasures are being laid up for you in heaven! God Bless You

My reply

Thanks a bunch. You are right, it is in Serpens. I don't know yet if it is in Serpens Caput, the Serpent's Head or in Serpens Cauda, the Serpent's Tail. Not only don't they know exactly how far away it is, they have no idea if it is in our own Milky Way Galaxy or at the edge of the Universe. Repeated photos show that it doesn't change. That rules out an exploding star or supernova as well as a solar type star or a quasar.

Serpens' head is near Corona Borealis, the Northern Crown, next to the spear of Bootes, where the gamma ray burst of Jan. 23, 1999 was located. It will be interesting to find out where in Serpens this mystery light is shining. Agape

Incoming Email

The information is in his (J.R. Church's) bible study on "the Days of Old" and it's a little complicated to understand, but it has to do with reading the Hebrew LETTERS of the Bible - There is a BIG {Hebrew letter} "hay" right BEFORE the beginning of the SEVENTH day on God's Calendar [I believe he got this information from the Old Testament] and it is at the END of the 5 books of Moses --and a SMALL Hebrew letter "hay" at the beginning of the 5 books of Moses. In other words right BEFORE the beginning of that SEVENTH DAY, there is a BIG hay - as in "hay - hay?" A LOUD SHOUT! An indication that we could be hearing that shout at the very END of the first 6000 years and that would be this SEPTEMBER 11th [actually the night before!]

I probably didn't explain this right, but both "hays" are letters of the Hebrew Alphabet. The beginning of God's 6 days of time allotted to man is marked with the SMALL hay and the END of that 6000th year is marked with the LARGE hay!

My reply

J.R. Church said that the miniature hay is in Gen. 2:4 and the big hay is in De. 32:6, which is verse 5759. This year, 1999, is the Jewish year 5759.

> "The beginning of God's 6 days of time allotted to man is marked with the SMALL hay

Gen. 2:4 (little hay) says, "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens."

> the END of that 6000th year is marked with the LARGE HAY!

De. 32:6 (verse 5759, big hay) says, "Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee: hath he not made thee, and established thee?" That doesn't say Rapture, but it could tie in with the foolish virgins that are waiting for the Bridegroom to come.

In his August, 99, Prophecy in the News is an Video Review of "The Days of Old," by Bob Ulrich. He says, "The 5,708th verse of the Torah is found in Deuteronomy 30:5. It says, 'And the Lord thy God will bring thee into the land which your fathers possessed and ye shall possess it.'"

He left out the rest of the verse: "and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers." Israel has forgotten this part. They think they have to give away land, but what they should do is trust the Lord to keep his promise. As it is, they have to go through the Tribulation first and be judged for parting his land. THEN the nation will be saved in a day (Isa. 66:8), and the Lord will keep this promise fully in the Millennium.

Continuing, Bob said, "Hmm? Sounds like the return of Israel to the Promised Land in 1948. Curiously enough, this text of verse number 5,708 was fulfilled in the Jewish year 5708--the equivalent of 1948 in our calendar!"

If the 5708th verse of the Bible represents the Jewish year 5708 (1948), then De. 31:4 would represent 5727 (1967, the Six-Day War). It says, "And the LORD shall do unto them as he did to Sihon and to Og, kings of the Amorites, and unto the land of them, whom he destroyed." These two fit 1948 and 1967 pretty well.

If this is to establish a pattern in De. 32, verse 5 would represent 5758 (1998), verse 6 would represent 5759 (1999), verse 7 would represent 5760 (2000), verse 8 would represent 5761 (2001), and verse 15 would represent 5768 (2007/2008). Let's set these verses against these years and see how they fit dates as I understand them.

De. 32:5 (v. 5758): "They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation."

De. 32:6 (v. 5759): "Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee: hath he not made thee, and established thee?"

De. 32:7 (v. 5760): "Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee."

De. 32:8 (v. 5761): "When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel."

De. 32:15 (v. 5768): "But Jeshurun (upright, righteous) waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation (Christ)."

Verse 16 explains, "They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger." The "abomination of desolation" (Mt. 24:15) is set up at the temple Mid-Trib.

I think it all fits pretty well. What do you think?

Incoming Email

Another possible "temple" connection is Mal. 3:(l) Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way(rapture) before me(2nd Advent): and THE LORD WHOM YE(Jews) SEEK, SHALL SUDDENLY COME TO HIS TEMPLE (Church)EVEN THE MESSENGER OF THE COVENANT(Jesus), WHOM (The Messiah)YE DELIGHT IN; behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts. (2) Buy who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like a fuller's sope.

Mal. 3:(l6) Then, they thayt feared the Lord spoke often one to another, and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written beore him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name. (l7)And they shall be mine, saith the lord of host, in THAT DAY WHEN I MAKE UP MY JEWELS; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. (l8) Then shall ye return and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth not.

I Cor. 3: l6-19, Know ye not that YE ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, WHICH TWEMPLE YE ARE. What? Know ye not that your body is the temple fo the Holy Ghost, which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Ephesians 2:l9-22, In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth into an holy temple in the Lord,and habitation of God through the Spirit.

Habakkuk 2:4, this vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie, though it tarry, wait for it, because it will surely come, it will not tarry.

My reply

> Another possible "temple" connection is Mal. 3:(l) Behold, I will send my messenger,
> and he shall prepare the way(rapture) before me(2nd Advent): and THE LORD WHOM
> COVENANT(Jesus), WHOM (The Messiah)YE DELIGHT IN; behold, he shall come

You might want to take another look at Mal. 3 and 4. It seems that "my messenger" blends John the Baptist and Elijah. Both prepare the way before him, John at the First Advent, and Elijah before the Second Advent. Mal. 4:5 says, "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD" (the Millennium).

John the Baptist quoted the first clause of Mal. 3:1 (Mt. 11:10; Mk. 1:2; Lu. 7:27). However, the second clause, "the Lord whom ye seek" is not quoted in the New Testament. It probably blends both Advents. From there on, the rest of Malachi seems better associated with the Second Advent. Jesus did not "come near to you to judgment" (v.5) at the First Advent. That comes around the time of the Second Advent. Like in other OT prophecies, the two Advents are blended together. The thought flows from one directly to the other without making it obvious that there is a space in between the two.

"But who may abide the day of his coming?" does not seem to apply to the First Advent. Only around the Second Advent will he "come near to you in judgment" (v. 5).

Chapter 4 starts out with the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord.

> (l7)And they shall be mine, saith the lord of host, in THAT DAY WHEN I MAKE UP MY JEWELS;
> and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. (l8) Then shall ye
> return and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God
> and him that serveth not.

This seems to be the Second Rapture. It falls on the first day of the Millennium. These are even people "that feared the LORD, and that THOUGHT UPON HIS NAME" (3:16). They are not the Bride, the wise virgins. The Bride was already in Heaven before the first seal was broken. These are the people that are to be spared God's Wrath. Seven months after the Pre-Wrath Rapture, at the Second Advent, they will return and discern between the righteous and the wicked.

"FOR, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh (Day of God's Wrath, first day of the millennial Day of the Lord) shall burn them up" (Mal. 4:1). Seven months later, Christ will return as "the Sun of righteousness" (4:2).

But, before that millennial Day of the Lord comes, Elijah will come. During the first half of the Tribulation, he "shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse" (Mal. 4:6). The "curse" (Zech. 5:3) will fall on the Day of God's Wrath. It is seen impacting Earth in Rev. 6:8,10.

Mal. 2:2,3 says, "If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name (Jesus is YHVH of hosts, Isa. 44:6), saith the LORD (YHVH) of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you...I will corrupt your seed, and spread DUNG upon your faces, even the DUNG of your solemn feasts (the 70th week of Daniel begins on the Feast of Weeks); and one (the Feast of Trumpets) shall take you away with it."

This helps us understand the fourth year in the parable of the barren fig tree. Lu. 13:8 says, And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it (part the land with the Palestinians, sign the final status agreement), and DUNG IT (sign on the Feast of Weeks): And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that (after confirming the covenant of Dan. 9:27) thou shalt cut it down" (during the 70th week of Daniel, the Tribulation, the 5th cycle of discipline). The time is shortened for the elect's sake. Therefore from the Feast of Weeks/Pentecost that begins the 70th week of Daniel to the Day of God's Wrath is 2300 days (Dan. 8:14).

Lev. 26:27,28 says, "And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury: and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins."

> I Cor. 3: l6-19, Know ye not that YE ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD

We are the spiritual building. There is also an earthly temple. In the OT, it is not always this easy to tell which is in view.

Incoming Email

In pro and con 372, a young gentlemen wrote asking questions of you concerning the last days and he also forwarded a message he received from someone else or some other site. In this message they say that the Kingdom came when Christ rose from the dead, and that's basically they think that we are all wasting our time watching for the Lord because he already ushered in his Kingdom -- the preterist viewpoint. I am sure that you disagree with this Marilyn, as do I. The message also stated that the traditional view of the church throughout most of its history has been the preterist view point. I have SERIOUS disagreements with this statement. The early apostolic church almost completely believed in millenialism, a literal 1,000 year reign of Christ with the saints in the future. They also believed in the imminency of the event, in that these things could begin to come to pass at any time...For the most part, the early church also held a very literal interpretation of much of the bible, including prophecy (I mean come on.....think about it, Jesus Christ LITERALLY fulfilled all of the prophecies concerning his first coming right?) This idea of amillenialism is something that gradually crept into the church along with the practice of allegorizing nearly all passages of scripture and ignoring the possibility of a literal meaning. Much of this happened after Christianity became the state religion in the roman empire, and at that time many false teachings worked their way into the church.....Most people would agree that the religion that Christianity became under Rome is NOT the religion that Christ gave to us and that the apostles spread around the known world. For anyone who wants to know more and do a little research into what the early church fathers really thought about the millenium and other end times events, anyone can go to: . Here at this site there is a link near the middle of the page called "theology adrift: the early church fathers and their views on eschatology". I recommend everyone to read this if they want to learn the truth about what our early church really believed.

Incoming Email

Your Web page is still the best on the net. I've read everything on your page and can't wait for new P&C. I pray that your problems with the house get solved and I thank God that u are still here to teach us. Remember this letter that I send you last year? Well I'll copy it at the bottom.

I actually want to talk bout something els. After studying the Bible and reading your page, I know that the Bible is the only truth we can deppend on. Then on 7/20/1999 someone asked me about Nostredamus cuase he read something in a magizine. So I did a search on the internet and came up with this...
Century X-72
The year 1999 seven month,
From the sky will come a great King of terror
To bring back to life the great King of Angolmois,
Before after Mars to reign by good luck.

Now I wont go into everything this person said cause I think he watch to much movies, so I won't waste your time with his stuff.

Now I know you think(hope) for the rapture on pentecost 2000 but what if it was to be in Sept 1999 for in the origenal French script the first line read:

L'an mil neuf cens nonante neuf sept mois (eg: sept month)

Now sept means seven but it could also be September...

Well there you go, food for thought, but still its only Nostradamus and not the Bible.

Still looking up, waiting and watching

Copy of previous email: Just thought about something this morning while driving to work in connection with the parable of the barren fig tree. For three years the Lord came to the tree and it didn't bare any fruit, then dung it and wait for one more year. That would mean the end off the third year or beginning of the fourth year something happens to "dung" the tree (Israel) to bring it back to faith. Is it possible that this "something" is the rapture. Nothing will bring people back to faith as the rapture would.

My reply

We can't go by Nostradamus, only the Bible.

You may be right about the Rapture having something to do with what is said to happen to Israel in the fourth year--the digging and dunging, or fertilizing. In 30 AD, some that came out of their graves did appear to people in Jerusalem. Mt. 27:52,53 says, "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." It could happen again. Besides, there are Christians in Israel that would disappear. That alone could shake them up a bit.

The August Prophecy Post Newsletter from Greg Alston is on my desk. As I gulped some coffee between sentences, this caught my eye. "...the true test of whether the Tribulation has begun should be based on the following four events of scripture: 1. The Man of Sin (Antichrist) is reavealed by overthrowing three nations (Daniel 7:24) and, LATER, confirming a covenant with Israel for a seven year period (Daniel 9:27)" (emphasis mine). I thought, "What? the Tribulation starts with confirming the covenant. The overthrowing three nations is in the middle of the Tribulation.

The Revelation is written as if the Rapture were at hand. It is "at hand" in both the first and last chapters (1:3; 22:10). "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come" (22:17). Jesus signs off with, "Surely I come quickly." At the time of the Rapture, the "ten kings...have received NO KINGDOM AS YET" (Rev. 17:1). Yet, at the beginning of the Tribulation and the coming to power of the first beast of Rev. 13, The Beast has "upon his horns ten crowns" (Rev. 13:1). Therefore, the 10 kings come to power at the beginning of the Tribulation.

Greg cited Dan. 7:24. It says, "And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another (the False Prophet) shall rise AFTER THEM; and he shall be diverse from the first (first beast of Rev. 13, The Beast), and he (the False Prophet) shall subdue three kings." Dan. 7:8 says, "...there came up among them another little horn (the False Prophet), before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots."

The False Prophet shall "rise after them." He comes to power and will "subdue three kings" AFTER the 42-month reign of The Beast (Rev. 13:5). That is Mid-Tribulation, not at its beginning. I wonder why that is so hard to see.

Greg's #2 and #3 are ok, "A one world government, clearly comprised of, and/or led by ten nations must first be in place" and "The Rapture must occur before the Tribulation because it precedes the emergence of the Antichrist."

#4 says, "Cosmic disturbances and certain heavenly signs must occur before the Tribulation can officially begin (Joel 2:30,31, Luke 21:25-28."

A footnote says, "Cosmic disturbances occur before, during and after the Tribulation Week:
Before the Tribulation - Joel 2:30, Mark 13:8
First year of the Tribulation - Ezekiel 38:19, Rev 6:12
During the Tribulation - Revelation 9:2; 11:13,19
After the Tribulation - Joel 3:15, Zechariah 14:4-6"

Let's see. Joel 2:30 is at the end of the shortened Tribulation, just before the millennial Day of the Lord begins. Mk. 13:8 is "the beginnings of sorrows." That is before the Tribulation, as Greg said.

Eze. 38:19 is on the first day of the Millennium. Rev. 6:12 is at the breaking of the sixth seal on the last day of this age. Verse 17 says, "For the great day of his wrath is come." The Day of God's Wrath is the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord.

Rev. 9:2 is the fifth trumpet judgment on the first day of the Millennium. Rev. 11:13,19 is the sixth trumpet on the first day of the Millennium.

Joel 3:15 and Zech. 14:4-6 are ok. I think to myself, "Why are some wrong?" The answer is because in spite of Elijah having to come BEFORE the Day of the Lord (Mal. 4:5), Greg thinks the Tribulation and Millennium start at the same time.

He said, "And when does this seven year period take place relative to the 1,000-year Day of the Lord: Inside of it - it occupies the first seven of the 1,000 years. This is established in that the great tribulation is a time of judgment and wrath (Matthew 24:21, 2 Thessalonians 1:6-11), as is the Day of the Lord (Zephaniah 1). It (the Tribulation Week) therefore must be part of the Day of the Lord."

Mt. 24:21 is the Great Tribulation, the latter half of the Tribulation, but the Day of God's Wrath is not the same as the Great Tribulation, although it happens within the Great Tribulation.

The Day of God's Wrath is one single day, the first day of the Millennium. Dan. 12:1,2 says, "AND at that time (when the False Prophet "shall come to his end," Dan. 11:45) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME; AND AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE (144,000+) SHALL BE DELIVERED (Rapture II), every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake." This is the Pre-Wrath Rapture. It does not take place over a spread of time like the Great Tribulation. It takes place instantly--on ONE PARTICULAR DAY of the Great Tribulation. It takes place on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord.

II Thess. 1:6-11 is one particular day, the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture and the Day of God's Wrath. This passage says, "And to you who are troubled REST WITH US (Rapture II), when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed (Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30) from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (those unbelievers left behind at Rapture II). The flaming fire is because of the asteroid impacts (Rev. 8:8,10). Those take place on one day, the day of the seven trumpet judgments, not throughout the whole Great Tribulation. Agape

Incoming Email

Your diligent studies of God's Word have enabled me to grasp greater & deeper multi-faceted truths for these last days. I have studied Bible prophecy for many years and have found the insights that the Holy Spirit has imparted to you to be invaluable. Before I share something very important with you, I just want you to pray for my family.

I wish to quote from the following source: Rambsel, Yacov;  Yeshua, The Name of Jesus Revealed in the Old Testament, (Forward by Grant R. Jeffrey). The information found encoded within the Hebrew Bible is astounding!

On page 48 & 49 are the following statements: "Starting with the first heh in Leviticus 17:1, counting every 77th letter from right to left, spells, ha 'miqreh Yeshua, which means, The Event of Yeshua.  The Hebrew word for a meeting is also miqrah. The adjacent letters to Yeshua spell, moreh, which means, Teacher of Righteousness; early rain. The number of Spiritual Perfection is seven (7), but seventy-seven (77) is the amplification of Spiritual Perfection.  Yeshua is Perfection Personified, and the finished work of His atoning sacrifice is perfect to the saving of any sinner from any sin and the curse of that sin. The Day of Atonement, Yom Kippur, comes in the month of Tishri (September) during the season of the Early Rain."

If I used my Western thinking of April showers bring May flowers, I would logically assume the early rain is in the spring. However, I must go by the Jewish calendar & use its logical sequence of festivals & events to understand the order of God's plan. Tishri (September) is the first month of the Jewish New Year. The early rain comes in Tishri during Rosh ha 'Shanah (the Feast of Trumpets).

No matter what happens this Tishri (September), I know that The Teacher of Righteousness will send the Early Rain upon you & your family during The Event of Yeshua. Agape

My reply

I agree. The Early Rain is the Former Rain that starts Tishri 1. The Latter Rain starts Nisan 1. I think the Former Rain represents Christ's First Advent and the Latter Rain represents his Second Advent. He does come down like rain. De. 11:14 says, "I will give you the rain of your land (Israel) in HIS DUE SEASON, the first rain and the latter rain." I also prayed. Agape

Incoming Email

Just have to keep you informed of what the Holy Spirit reveals to me. I have just listened to Charles Stanley's tape series on "When it is wise to wait", and know his message is relevant to you. Dr. Stanley's teaching is to wait on the Lord NOT by sitting around doing nothing, but rather carrying on in your work. This is what you are doing.

Those that criticise you for studying the signs of the Rapture are in essence exerting a belief that you should not do any study, instead of your work!

I pray for continued knowledge to be revealed to all of us.
Agape. PS - Thank you for defining "Agape" for me.

My reply

Thank you. Jesus said to occupy until he comes. To me, that means to keep on living a normal life and studying His Word. We can be earning rewards in what time we have left. Agape

   Pro and Con 376   Or Return  Home

Contact me for more information at:

send me e-mail now.

8641 Sugar Gum Road, Riverside, CA, 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110

© 1998, 1999, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 8-20-99