Pro and Con 376

Uploaded 8-23-99

Incoming Email

...when i read my bible i keep asking my self questions. the first scripture i questioned 2tim.2-15 study to show thyself approved unto GOD, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. the questions i asked myself if we wrongly divide the bible, are we approved of GOD, and where do we divide the bible. old test. new test? is this the dividing line? and in matt. 10-5 JESUS told his apostles rather commanded them, go not in the way of the gentiles. matt.15-22 the canaan woman, she was a gentile, and JESUS said to her I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

with these two verses bother me. i always thought that JESUS came into the world to save every one. the same with matt.19-28 JESUS again talking to his apostles telling them about the end times.how that HE will sit on HIS throne and his apostles will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. i don't see any gentiles here.

well marilyn this should give you something to think about, rightly dividing the bible. give me your thoughts on this matter. in his grace

My reply

> rightly dividing the word of truth

It is more than just Old Testament--New Testament. There are all kinds of divisions. We have to study each passage in the light of the rest of the Bible, keeping in mind that instructions at one time may differ from instructions at another time. There are major divisions, but there are even divisions within one sentence.

For instance, in Lu. 4:18-21, when Jesus read from Isa. 61:1,2, he stopped in the middle of verse 2. He read, "To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book." What he did not read said, "and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn." Why? because he went on to say, "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."

He rightly divided the word of truth." He showed us how it is done. The acceptable year of the Lord was fulfilled that day, but the day of vengeance of our God is still future, even in our days. It is the Day of God's Wrath, the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord, the Feast of Trumpets when Israel will blow the alarm on the trumpets because Jerusalem is being attacked by the united nations' army (Zech.14:2) under the leadership of Gog (Eze. 38).

The "acceptable year of the Lord" is connected to the First Advent and the beginning of the Dispensation of Grace. The "day of vengeance of our God" is connected to the beginning of the Dispensation of Kingdom. This is when Dan. 7:9-14 is fulfilled. "And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him."

We have to examine each phrase in some prophetic passages to decide if there is a similar gap of time between statements. Sometimes there is a clear break. Sometimes there is a more gradual transition. Look at Dan. 9:26. It says, "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (karath, killed, at the Crucifixion), but not for himself (for us): and the people (Romans) of the prince that shall come (first the Beast, then the False Prophet during the Tribulation) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary (in 70 AD); and the end thereof (when the False Prophet is deposed) shall be with a flood (when the mountain burning with fire impacts the Mediterranean on the Day of God's Wrath), and unto the end of the war (Armageddon, that comes after the Second Advent, 7 months after the Day of God's Wrath) desolations are determined." This one verse covers a lot of time.

Here are some major divisions that are necessary to rightly divide the word of truth. Eccl. 8:5 says, "a wise man's heart discerneth both TIME and JUDGMENT." Man's test being mortal and knowing both good an evil covers 7,000 years of TIME. JUDGMENT covers 7 years, the Tribulation, or 70th Week of Daniel. That 7 years is shortened by 7 months (Eze. 39:12), or "there should no flesh be saved" (Mt. 24:22).

The 7000 years is divided into seven 1000-year great days. There are two 1000-year days in each of three ages. In the 2000-year Age of the Gentiles, God dealt with all mankind. In the 2000-year Age of the Jews, He dealt mainly with the Jews. In the 2000-year Age of the Church, He is dealing mainly with the Church. The 7-year JUDGEMENT is inserted into the 7000-year timeline between the Age of the Church and the 1000-year Day of the Lord, which is the Dispensation of Kingdom. It is Israel's fifth cycle of discipline (Lev. 26:28). It is inserted in the timeline because it could be left out if Israel would turn to the Lord and not need the fifth cycle of discipline. There also seem to be four years inserted before the Tribulation (Lu. 13:6-9). I call these Israel's grace years. The Lord comes to check for fruit on his fig tree. If there is none, the Tribulation will come. Once it starts rolling, nothing will stop it. We are living in Israel's grace period.

Superimposed upon 7000+ years are seven Dispensations in which man is given different instructions to see if he will obey God. The Dispensation of Innocence took place during the 40 years that preceded the Age of the Gentiles. Adam's test was different than ours. We are mortal from the start. Adam would have been immortal if he had not sinned. Here are the Dispensations and the time that seems to be allotted to each:

(1) Innocence--40 years
(2) Conscience--1616 years
(3) Human Government--427 years
(4) Promise--430 years
(5) Law--1559 years
(6) Grace--1977 years
(7) Kingdom--1000 years

Mankind is being tried under 7 different types of economies. God is proving himself just. We can't say things like this later: "Well, if we'd had perfect laws, we would have obeyed," or "Well, if we'd had a perfect king, we would have obeyed."

During each Dispensation, God gave different instructions. Man was to obey those instructions. Mankind has failed his test in six already, and he will fail in the seventh, even with a perfect king. Without a Saviour, all are lost. We are all absolutely and totally dependant upon Jesus Christ for our Salvation.

> matt.15-22 the canaan woman, she was a gentile, and JESUS
> said to her I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The time of the First Advent was a transition period from the Dispensation of Law to the Dispensation of Grace. The gospel of Jesus Christ went out to the Jews first, then to the Samaritans, finally to the Gentiles. You will see this in the book of Acts.

> the end times.how that HE will sit on HIS throne and his apostles will sit on
> twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. i don't see any gentiles

In Rev. 5:9, you will see that the 24 elders, all Israelites (the 12 patriarchs and the 12 apostles), are the Representatives of people "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation." It is similar to our government. We have Senators and Representatives in Congress to represent all citizens of this country.

In Rev. 5:8-10, we see another kind of division we need to recognize. The subject changes from the ELDERS to the SAINTS that they represent. It says, "And when he (Christ) had taken the book (the title deed to the Earth), the four beasts and four and twenty ELDERS (all Israelites) fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of SAINTS. And they (the saints) sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us (saints) to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us (saints) unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (epi, over) the earth."

We have to examine Scripture very closely to rightly divide the word of truth. More details are in my book, Exit: 2007: The Secret of Secrets Revealed."

Incoming Email

thank you for the answers. please have patience with me i like to see where in the bible you are getting your answers.
you said the age of the gentiles came first. from Adam to Abraham. where in the bible can i find this?
i asked you about the gentiles, were the heathen gentiles?
you said no there were followers of the lord that went with the Israelites where in scripture?
the mystery: in Eph.3-6 -6 that the gentiles should be fellowheirs. what you said how that the age of the gentiles came first from Adam to Abraham then this is no mystery,no?
then i asked why Paul?and you said that GOD replaced Judas with Paul after he hung himself.
what do you do with Acts.1;16 to 26 tells how the scriptures must be fulfilled by the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David concerning Judas this prophesy was filled here. no?
concerning Paul when he said my gospel this he said 3 times Rom.2-16, Rom.16-25, 2Tim.2-8 and in Gal. 2-7
but contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter the question again: Paul says my gospel, is this a different gospel you said no! Paul taught the gospel of Jesus Christ i don't agree with your no answer, but Paul did preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. again out of love, for HE first loved us in His grace

My reply

> you said the age of the gentiles came first. from Adam to Abraham. where in
> the bible can i find this?

It isn't stated point blank in the Bible. However, it can be figured out from what is there. I can't take credit for figuring it out. R.B. Thieme, Jr. was the first that I know of to figure it out.

It has long been thought that the 7 days of creation in Genesis prefigured 7000 years of time. This is reasonable for the length of the "sabbatismos" of Heb. 4:9 is the 1000-year (Rev. 20:5) Day of the Lord (Mal. 4:5).

Job 24:1 says, "Why, seeing times are not hidden from the Almighty (Christ, Rev. 1:8), do they that know him not see HIS DAYS?"

II Peter 3:8 says, But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." HIS DAYS are 1000-year days.

The Day of the Lord is the 7th 1000-year great day. The Bible is consistent. If the 7th great day is 1000-years, the other great days are each 1000 years. Therefore, we can see that the time covered in Scripture is roughly 7000 years. Seven is the number of completion too. That fits nicely.

In working with Bible chronology, I found that Adam seems to have been cast out of the Garden of Eden in BC 4003/4004. Also, the wise men brought kingly and priestly gifts to Jesus when he was about two years old in BC 3/4. That is 4000 years. Thieme's 2000-year ages fit. We can see that the age in which God is dealing mainly with the Church is around 2000 years. World events show us that we are very near the Tribulation now.

The 7000 years seem to be mankind's test, being mortal and knowing both good and evil. Let's call that 7000 years TIME. Eccl. 8:5 says, "a wise man's heart discerneth both TIME and JUDGMENT." I think the 7000 years are "TIME" and the 7-year Tribulation is "JUDGMENT." The 7 years are Israel's 5th cycle of discipline (Lev. 26:28).

Before the Ages of Time began, I think Adam was tried in the Garden of Eden 40 years. Forty means testing. Just as the first Adam was tried 40 years, the second Adam (Christ) was tried by Satan 40 time periods, in this case 40 days (Lu. 4:2).

Before the Ages began, Adam was promised "eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began (pro chronon aionion, BEFORE THE AGES OF TIME)" (Titus 1:2).

Tim. 1:9 tells of "grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began (prochronon aionion, BEFORE THE AGES OF TIME)."

There are several Scriptures that refer to a time before the ages or to the beginning of the ages. Paul said, "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the HIDDEN WISDOM, which God ordained (proorisen, predetermined) before the world (pro ton aionon, BEFORE THE AGES)."

The Ages of Time have a definite purpose. Paul wrote, That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs...Unto me...is this grace given...to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world (aionon, AGES) hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now, unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose (prothesin ton aionon, PURPOSE OF THE AGES) which he purposed in Christ Jesus, our Lord" (Eph. 3:6-11). The secret that Paul revealed was God's purpose to make of Jew and Gentile a new thing, the Church.

The Bible only recognizes these three groups of mankind, Gentiles, Jews and the Church. This is why Paul said to the Corinthians, "Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God" (I Cor. 10:32). These names for the Ages fit right in.

Christ planned the Ages. "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed (katertisthai tous aionas, the ages were planned) by the word of God" (Heb. 11:3).

Eccl. 3:10,11 literally says that God has set the (olam, ages) in their heart, without which man cannot find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

God set the sun, moon and stars in the heavens for "signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years" (Gen. 1:15). Each constellation in the Zodiac moves one space along the ecliptic in about 2000 years, drifting toward the left.

WE live "in the end of the world (sunteleia ton aionon, FULL END OF THE AGES" (Heb. 9:26). The Millennium is a great Day, not an Age. This age is the age of the ages. In it was the Crucifixion, Resurrection, Ascension, descent of the Holy Spirit and the Rapture. To "Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout ALL AGES, world without end (eis pasas tas geneas tou aionon ton aionon, literally, to all the generations of THE AGE OF THE AGES" (Eph. 3:21).

> i asked you about the gentiles, were the heathen gentiles?

A heathen is a person that does not acknowledge the God of the Bible. He could be of any nation. He could be Jew or Gentile. In the early days, they were mostly Gentiles.

> you said no there were followers of the lord that went with the Israelites
> where in scripture?

One place it can be seen is Ex. 12:44: "But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof" (the first Passover). The servants passed over by the death angel would have gone out with the Hebrews. Verse 49 says, "One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you."

> the mystery: in Eph.3-6 -6 that the gentiles should be fellowheirs. what you said how
> that the age of the gentiles came first from Adam to Abraham then this is no mystery,no?

The mystery was that the Gentiles would be fellowheirs with the Jews. This was not made plain until Paul explained it clearly.

> then i asked why Paul? and you said that GOD replaced Judas with Paul after he hung
> himself. what do you do with Acts.1;16 to 26 tells how the scriptures must be fulfilled
> by the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David concerning Judas this prophesy was filled here. no?

Look at Acts 1:20: "For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and HIS BISHOPRICK LET ANOTHER TAKE." That was fulfilled. The apostles picked Matthias, but God picked Paul. Rom. 1:1-5 says, "PAUL, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be AN APOSTLE, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: BY WHOM WE HAVE RECEIVED GRACE AND APOSTLESHIP, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name."

Gal. 1:1 says, "PAUL, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father."

> concerning Paul when he said my gospel this he said 3 times Rom.2-16, Rom.16-25, 2Tim.2-
> and in Gal. 2-7 but contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was
> committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter the question again:
> Paul says my gospel, is this a different gospel you said no! Paul taught the gospel of Jesus
> Christ i don't agree with your no answer, but Paul did preach the gospel of Jesus Christ

Yes, he did preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. in Rom. 10:9-13, Paul said, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

It was not a different gospel. It could not be. In Gal. 1:6-9, Paul said, "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto ANOTHER GOSPEL: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preacned unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Agape

Incoming Email

I have been giving this question a lot of thought, with no success... trying to reconcile the idea of a springtime rapture, given the Song of Solomon rapture parable, and others.

I had no success. Finally, when my thoughts turn to God as I pondered this question, the answers began to flow.

On the earth, when is it springtime everywhere? Never. In the North it's summer when in the South it's winter. In the North it's fall when in the South, it's spring. And so on.

So, then I'm thinking, then why the parables about springtime? And the answer comes, "you must be born again of water and Holy Spirit"... like you see new life in the spring. Likewise, you will be transformed and made new at the rapture.

And then, another thought came to me, and this was my own thoughts... Not all parables work out exactly as you think. For example, we are told that Jonah was in the belly of the fish for three days, just as Christ was dead for three days. But you don't look at Jonah's life, and say that Christ similarly was running away from his duties before he died. Not at all, it's the exact opposite.

Likewise, the parables about the rapture happening in the spring do not necessarily mean that it will happen in the spring, but could happen at the exact opposite time, the fall.

Incoming Email

One more "six days" verse that had it a bit hidden because it's not quite so obvious...

[Job 7:1.5] Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?

[Exod 21:2.7] If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.

(This year, Sept. 11th, 1999, or Tishrei 1, 5760, is supposed to be year 6000.)

Also, it's kind of fitting that these verses are in "Job" and "Exodus."

My reply

> So, then I'm thinking, then why the parables about springtime?

It is figured from Jerusalem.

> Likewise, the parables about the rapture happening in the spring do not necessarily mean
> that it will happen in the spring, but could happen at the exact opposite time, the fall.

Not in my book. God knows exactly how to indicate what he means.

> [Job 7:1.5] Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not
> his days also like the days of an hireling?

> [Exod 21:2.7] If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve:
> and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.

> This year, Sept. 11th, 1999, or Tishrei 1, 5760, is supposed to be year 6000.

I like these verses a lot. When 6000 years are past, in "the seventh he shall go out free."

Because of my work on Bible Chronology and because of what I call the "Modern Parables" (listed below), I thought the 6000th year was 5758 (our 1997/1998). However, it now looks like the 6000th year runs between Tishri 1, 5759 and Tishri 1, 5760. The year 5278 (Oct. 31, 1517) + 480 years = 5758. Instead of 5758 marking the 6000th year, it must mark the beginning of Israel's grace years given in the parable of the barren fig tree in Lu. 13:6-9 (5758, 5759, 5760, 5761). Working backward, I think the Tribulation begins on Pentecost/Feast of Weeks in 5761, the Rapture on Pentecost, 5760, and the two years that Jesus comes LOOKING run from Pentecost, 5758 and Pentecost, 5759. I expect the Rapture next Pentecost.

5278 (1517) + 400   Acts 7:7 = 5678 (1917/1918) the modern Exodus began
5278 (1517) + 430  Ex. 12:41 = 5708 (1947/1948) Israel declared her Independence
5278 (1517) + 450 Acts 13:20 = 5728 (1967/1968) Israel grew leaves in the Six-Day War
5278 (1517) + 480   I Ki. 6:1 = 5758 (1997/1998) beginning of 4 yrs. of Lu. 13:6-9
5278 (1517) + 483  Dan. 9:26 = 5761 (2000/2001) Beginning of Tribulation
5278 (1517) + 490  Dan. 9:24 = 5768 (2007/2008) Day of God's Wrath, Second Advent

Incoming Email

FROM CAPS. Marilyn, you recently posted an email I sent you several weeks ago. If you have been reading the 5 Doves site you realize that I now believe that the Rapture will occur of the Feast of Trumpets. You can look up those on the 5 Doves if you have not done so already. Pentecost remains a possibility. However, with the Last Trumpet being blown on Trumpets---the Victory Trumpet and Paul using the analogy of "victory" 3 times in the same passage in I Cor. 15:51 & following tells me that this Last Trumpet is for the overcomers---i.e. the First Rapture----not the pre-wrath. Also, a careful reading of Neh. ch 8 and II Tim. ch. 4 shows how the "bema"--"judgement seat" is at the time of the FIRST RAPTURE since when Paul wrote this last letter He knew he had obtained or qualified for the reward that will be given at "HIS APPEARING ". The context of II Tim ch. 4 (see vs. 1) proves the "appearing" is the Rapture-the pre-tribulation one---since Paul differentiates between "HIS APPEARING(THE RAPTURE) AND HIS KINGDOM."Hope things are going o.k. for you and Ed. God Bless.

My reply

First of all, God's clock stopped for Israel on Pentecost in 30 AD. Don't you think it makes good sense that He would start the clock again on Pentecost? The Seventieth Week of Daniel starting on the Feast of Weeks makes the Pre-Trib Rapture on the preceding Pentecost seem likely to me. There is a gap between the two events. It probably is the extra year in the parable of the barren fig tree in Lu. 13:6-9. The Tribulation starts on a feast. Mal. 2:3 says, "I will corrupt your seed, and spread DUNG upon your faces, even the DUNG of your solemn feasts (Pentecost?); and one (the Feast of Trumpets) shall take you away with it." In the extra year in the parable, Israel is to be dug about (carved up by a Palestinian State) and dunged (the final status agreement confirmed on the Feast of Weeks?). The 2300 days of Dan. 8:14 only fit between the Feast of Weeks in 2001 and the Feast of Trumpets in 2007.

> with the Last Trumpet being blown on Trumpets---the Victory Trumpet
> and Paul using the analogy of "victory" 3 times in the same passage in I
> Cor. 15:51 & following tells me that this Last Trumpet is for the
> overcomers---i.e. the First Rapture----not the pre-wrath.

The first trump (first Rapture) is in I Thess. 4:13-18. The last trump (last Rapture) is in I Cor. 15:51,52.

At the first Rapture, the foolish Laodiceans are left behind. Yet, "ALL" are changed in I Cor. 14:51,52. If this passage applied to the first Rapture, ALL would NOT be changed at that time. It has to apply to the last trump, NOT the first trump.

> reading of Neh. ch 8 and II Tim. ch. 4 shows how the "bema"--"judgement
> seat" is at the time of the FIRST RAPTURE since when Paul wrote this last
> letter He knew he had obtained or qualified for the reward that will be
> given at "HIS APPEARING ". The context of II Tim ch. 4 (see vs. 1) proves
> the "appearing" is the Rapture-the pre-tribulation one---since Paul
> differentiates between "HIS APPEARING (THE RAPTURE) AND HIS KINGDOM.

The Judgment Seat of Christ is on the Day of God's Wrath. That is the day of the second Rapture. Rev. 11:18 is very clear. It says, "And the nations were angry (Israel is being attacked, Eze. 38), and THY WRATH IS COME, AND THE TIME OF THE DEAD, THAT THEY SHOULD BE JUDGED, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, AND THEM THAT FEAR THY NAME, SMALL AND GREAT; AND shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." All saints, small and great, even those that fear His name, are judged at ONE TIME. Therefore, both Raptures must take place BEFORE the saints receive their rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

II Tim. 4:1 says, "I CHARGE thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall JUDGE the quick (living) and THE DEAD (see the verse above) at his appearing (he appears in the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30, on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord) and his kingdom" (that day is his Coronation Day, when he receives his kingdom).

Mt. 24:30 says, "And then shall APPEAR the SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN IN HEAVEN: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall SEE the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." This is the day the atmosphere and smoke is rolled away like a scroll so men can see this sign. He does not arrive on Earth for seven more months (Eze. 39:12).

When the Sign of the Son of Man is seen, he is sitting on his throne. Rev. 6:16,17 says, "And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from THE FACE OF HIM THAT SITTETH ON THE THRONE, AND FROM THE WRATH OF THE LAMB: FOR THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME."

> Hope things are going o.k. for you and Ed.

Healthwise, we are doing well....

Incoming Email

FWD: INFOR. FOR MJ AGEE FROM CAPS: John (on 5 Doves site), here is an email I sent to Marilyn Agee re some further thoughts on the timing of the Rapture. I feel this proves that the judgement seat will take place immediately --i.e. on the same day---as the Rapture. Paul emphasized that he was looking forward to receiving his crown on "that day"-see II Tim. ch 4---and not only was he to receive one on "that day", but ALL those who "long for His APPEARING". Paul, in II Tim 4:1 differentiates between Christ's "APPEARING( i.e. the Rapture) and his KINGDOM( i.e. the 2nd coming in power). Also, the Greek word used for crown ,"stephanos", is the SAME word used in Revelation ch.4 where the 24 Elders who represent the Raptured church are also wearing "crowns." It should be obvious that in Rev. ch. 4 that the church has just been raptured from verse 1. The very next thing John sees in this vision is the crowns on the Elders. Paul ran the race to win the "prize" of the HIGH CALLING --the Rapture. Right before his death he realized he had FINISHED THE RACE AND HAD KEPT THE FAITH. Therefore, he KNEW AT THIS POINT IN HIS LIFE he had qualified for the pre-tribulation Rapture. Our race goes on. Let's make sure we can all say at the end "We have kept the faith......therefore......"

My reply

> same day---as the Rapture. Paul emphasized that he was looking forward to receiving
> his crown on "that day"-see II Tim. ch 4---and not only was he to receive one on
> "that day", but ALL those who "long for His APPEARING"

Christ can appear at both Raptures. We will see him in the clouds at the first. Men on Earth will see the Sign of the Son of Man at the second. He can judge at both Raptures. When Jesus comes at the first Rapture, he has a "sharp twoedged sword coming out of his mouth (Rev. 1:16) to cut off those that are not overcomers. He is the judge that standeth at the door (Jas. 5:9). The door represents the Rapture (Rev. 3:8; 4:1). He will judge by choosing his Bride at the first Rapture, AND still judge at the Judgment Seat of Christ after the second Rapture. Those with him are called, and chosen and faithful.

There are at least five kinds of crowns. Don't you think it is possible that the Bride of Christ could get a crown at the Pre-Trib Rapture AND at the Marriage of the Lamb? Doesn't a queen get a crown? The marriage follows Christ's coronation on the first day of the Millennium.

   Pro and Con 377   Or Return  Home


Contact me for more information at: mjagee@pe.net

send me e-mail now.

8641 Sugar Gum Road, Riverside, CA, 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110


© 1998, 1999, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 8-23-99