Pro and Con 378

Uploaded 8-27-99

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I know about the thousand year reign of Christ, but could you tell what takes place after the thousand years and Satan and his hordes are no more. Will we be on earth, will we still be having families, etc.? Thank you

My reply

The Bible is roughly about 7000 years of time. We are given hints about before and after that time, but not a lot of details.

The first thing I am concerned about is that you make sure that you have confessed all sins and are ready to be chosen as the Bride of Christ and be caught up to Heaven in the Pre-Trib Rapture. Then your home will be Heaven. You will not be on Earth still having families, etc., during the 1000 years. We will return to Earth with Christ at the Second Advent, do whatever work he has set out for us to do in setting up the millennial government, then go home when He goes home. Christ (YHVH of hosts, Isa. 44:6) will be as God and David will be a prince on Earth. Eze. 34:24 says, "I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them." I think that whenever we are needed on Earth after that for some reason, we will travel back and forth.

Concerning the time after the Millennium, I Cor. 15:24,25 says, "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet....And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

Isa. 60:21 says, "Thy people (Israel) also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever." Agape

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fits in with June, 2000- could this be the Daniel 9 covenant?

Arafat Predicts End of Israel Talks, By IBRAHIM BARZAK, AP Writer

GAZA CITY (AP) - Israel and the Palestinians could conclude peace talks by May 4, Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat said today, despite differences over an interim accord. Arafat, speaking after meeting Norwegian Foreign Minister Knut Vollebaek, said the original peace framework targeted May 4, 1999 as the deadline for signing a peace treaty. When that date was missed, Arafat agreed to delay declaration of an independent Palestinian state by one year. Negotiations on a treaty have not begun yet because of ongoing disagreement over interim steps. But asked if it is realistic to expect a peace treaty by next May, Arafat replied, ``More realistic than anything else.''...

My reply

I think the final status agreement will be signed on Pentecost, 2001.

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...What verse in Ezk.47 ties in with the water springing forth on the Temple Mount? Which version?

What is the significance of polar hexagon structures on Saturn and the Sun? What is their nature, in terms of make-up? Any Bible versus to corroborate the scientific findings?

Besides the verse in Job (which I liked a lot), any others you know of that might reveal the Gamma Ray Burst? Who do you think wrote Job? Moses? Elihu? Job? Thanks for the answers.

My reply

> What verse in Ezk.47 ties in with the water springing forth on the Temple
> Mount? Which version?

I think that was a false alarm. The water was being pumped from a cistern to water plants. Eze. 47:1-5 is about the waters issuing out from under the threshold of the house eatward.

> significance of polar hexagon structures on Saturn and the Sun? What is their nature,
> in terms of make-up? Any Bible versus to corroborate the scientific findings?

Don't know of a Bible tie-in, but some people want to tie it in with the Star of David. The structures on Saturn's poles was found by Voyager and photographed. I have seen the pictures. That on the Sun was found to be deep under the surface. If I remember right, they were testing gravitational forces.

> Besides the verse in Job (which I liked a lot), any others you know of that might
> reveal the Gamma Ray Burst? Who do you think wrote Job? Moses? Elihu? Job?

Job 37:15,21,22 is the only passage I know of like that. The gamma ray burster of Jan. 23, 1999, came from the tip of the spear of Bootes in the northern sky, so it ties in very well. Job may be the oldest book in the Bible. It shows nothing about the Law. Who wrote it? I am not sure, but Job may have. His father was a son of Esau. Here is what I can find out about the man Job and his friends. At he end of the book in the LXX is this paragraph:

"This man is described in the Syriac book as living in the land of Ausis, on the borders of Idumea and Arabia: and his name before was Jobab; and having taken an Arabian wife, he begot a son whose name was Ennon. And he himself was the son of his father Zare, one of the sons of Esau, and of his mother Bosorrha, so that he was the fifth from Abraam, And these were the kings who reigned in Edom, which country he also ruled over: first, Balac, the son of Beor, and the name of his city was Dennafa: but after Balac, Jobab, who is called Job: and after him Asom, who was governor out of the country of Thaeman: and after him Adad, the son of Barad, who destroyed Madiam in the plain of Moab; and the name of his city was Gethaim. And his friends who came to him were Eliphaz, of the children of Esau, king of the Thaemanites (or Temanites), Baldad sovereign of the Sauchaeans (or Bildad, the Shuhite), Sophar king of the Minaeans (or Zophar, the Naamathite)." The added parenthetic information is from C.W. Slemmings, "Bible Digest, p. 269."

This probably ties in with Gen. 36:33,34: "And Bela died, and Jobab the son of Zerah (or Zare) of Bozrah reigned in his stead. And Jobab died, and Husham of the land of Temani reigned in his stead."

Gen. 36:10,15,16 says, "These are the names of Esau's sons; Eliphaz the son of Adah the wife of Esau...These were dukes of the sons of Esau: the sons of Eliphaz the firstborn son of Esau; duke Teman, duke Omar, duke Zepho, duke Kenaz, Duke Korah, duke Gatam, and duke Amalek: these are the dukes that came of Eliphaz in the land of Edom; these were the sons of Adah."

The Bible Digest, p. 269,270 says, "Bildad, the Shuhite, would be a descendant of Abram and Keturah according to Gen. xxv.2. 'And she bare him Zimram, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak and Shuah'. Shuah was the father of the Shuhites. Of Zophar we know nothing. His name means 'chatterer' and chatterer he was! "...Elihu, the Buzite. 'Huz his firstborn, and Buz his brother' (Gen. xxii.21). This would be the father of the Buzites and so a descendant of Nachor. "These Scriptures put all of these names into the same period of time in Genesis, surrounding the life of Abraham. This would cause one to believe that Job lived about that time and also in that area, for Uz would not be far from Ur of the Chaldees. "From the last chapter of Job it is learned that he lived another one hundred and forty years after the incidents recorded in the book. This brings Job into the life-span of that same era. Abraham died at one hundred and seventy-five years, Isaac at one hundred and eighty, Joseph at one hundred and ten, Terah at two hundred and five. "Prior to the Flood the age-span was in the nine hundreds. In the days of Moses it was one hundred and twenty years."

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Re: Film miracle! (Jim Bramlett)NEWS BRIEFS NEWS BRIEFS from the editors of Charisma, Aug. 10, 1999

Hundreds of Muslims have come to Christ since a blind 15-year-old Indonesian girl taken to a screening of the "Jesus" film had her sight restored at the exact moment the movie portrayed Jesus healing a blind beggar, said Paul Eshleman, director of The Jesus Film Project.

(Bramlett note: In just recent years the "JESUS" film, a full-length movie on the life of Christ taken directly from the Gospel of Luke, has been translated into more than 484 languages and has been viewed by more than 1.75 BILLION people in 223 countries. It is the most translated film of any type in all history, second place being "Gone With the Wind" which was only translated into a paltry 35 languages. Can there be any doubt that God is going to extremely extraordinary lengths to reveal Himself and His Son's great sacrifice and provision to the world in these last days? The "JESUS" film is a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ International, an interdenominational ministry.)...

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You mentioned that "God's last hour" would be equal to 41 years 8 months earth time. (1000 year day divided by 24 hours = 41.6666)

It is interesting to note that from the sign of the end of the age in 1967, to the expected second coming in 2008 will be almost exactly 41 years.

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FWD: Time magazine article about new cosmic object

The Cosmic Light No One Can Explain
A puzzling body stumps astronomy's best minds
It isn't visible to the naked eye...But this pinpoint of light is anything but ordinary....Astronomer S. George Djorgovski and his team at the California Institute of Technology first spotted the object in color photographs taken for an ongoing digitized survey of the northern skies. In one of the images, they noticed what seemed to be an oddly colored star in the constellation Serpens (the snake)....Within the next few weeks, astronomers at the Keck Observatory in Hawaii will train a telescope equipped with an experimental infrared spectrograph on the quarry....

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Enclosed is a synopsis of most all the scriptures concerning Lucifer, the Beast, the False Prophet, and the Whore. The particular order of the scriptures in each synopsis was chosen to elucidate its overall comprehension.

Since it is obviously very difficult to positively identify these end-time characters, there is much controversy as to who is who. There IS a way to approach this controversy that may help shed light on which scriptures should be applied to which character. This approach is through the deaths of these end-time characters.

***From Marilyn: I sure do appreciate all your hard work. This approach seems like a very good idea. I hadn't thought to start this way. I'll add anything that comes to mind as extra background that might help us understand these sometimes hard to identify end-time characters more clearly as I look up the scriptures you mention.

The Bible gives specific details of the deaths of the following end-time characters:

Lucifer-And the devil was cast into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet are. Rev 20.10

The Beast-cast alive into a lake of fire. Rev 19.20

False Prophet-cast alive into a lake of fire. Rev 19.20

Prince of Tyre-Fire brings him to ashes in the sight of all. Ezekiel 28.18

***Tyre means rock. This is the prince of the rock (Rahab, in the midst of the planetary lineup), i.e., Satan, as you state later on.

The Assyrian-Destroyed upon the mountains of Israel. Isaiah 14.25

***Isa. 14:23-26: "I will sweep it (Babylon) with the besom (broom) of destruction...I will BREAK the Assyrian (Heb. Ashur) in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall HIS YOKE depart from off them....This is the purpose that is purposed upon the WHOLE EARTH (i.e., it's the Day of God's Wrath): and this is the hand that is stretched out upon ALL THE NATIONS."

***Isa. 31:5-9: "As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend THAT DAY every man shall cast away his idols...Then shall the Assyrian fall with the sword, not of a mighty man; and the sword, not of a mean man, shall devour him: but he shall flee from the sword, and his young men shall be discomfited. And he shall pass over to his strong hold for fear, and his princes shall be afraid of the ensign (Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30).

-At Nob (1-2 miles north of Jerusalem). Isaiah 10.32
-In the valley of Tophet (Hinnom). Isaiah 30.32

King of the North-Comes to his end between Med. and Dead Seas in mountains of Israel. Daniel 11.45

***That is true, but I don't think the willful king of Dan. 11:36-45 is the king of the north. Verse 40 says, "And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at HIM (the willful king, v. 36):and the king of the north shall come against HIM (the willful king) like a whirlwind." In v. 43, "HE (the willful king) shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver." In Rev. 13:16,17, "he causeth receive a mark...that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark." In Dan. 11:37, "he (the willful king) shall MAGNIFY HIMSELF ABOVE ALL." II Thess. 2:3,4 says, "and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and EXALTETH HIMSELF ABOVE ALL."

-Dies facing east and in between the Med. and Dead Seas. Joel 2.20

King of Babylon-God punishes Bel in Babylon. Jeremiah 51.44

***Later, you mention that "Bel refers to the false religion of "Mystery Babylon." Jer. 51:44,45 says, "I will punish Bel in Babylon, and I will BRING FORTH OUT OF HIS MOUTH that which he hath swallowed up: and the nations shall not flow together any more unto him: yea, the wall of Babylon shall fall. My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce anger of the Lord." Bel, the Babylonian name for Baal, meaning lord, was the sun god, the national God of Babylon, who was worshipped at the lofty temple there. Isa. 46:1,6 says, "BEL boweth down, Nebo stoopeth, their idols were upon the beasts...They lavish gold out of the bag, and weigh silver in the balance, and hire a goldsmith; and he maketh it a god: they fall down, yea, they worship."

***Jer. 50:2 is the verse I saw a rectangle of light on. It says, "Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach (Hebrew name for Bel/Marduk) is broken in pieces; her (Babylons) idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces."

-Dies as The Assyrian dies. Jeremiah 50.18

The Whore-Ten horns [beast] burn her with fire. Revelation 17.16

***I think the harlot church of Rev. 17 is headquartered at Vatican City at the time of the Rapture, when the 10 kings have "received no kingdom as yet" (Rev. 17:12). She is moved to new world-church quarters at Babylon in the Tribulation. Then the ten kings burn what is left of Vatican City.

Lucifer is the same as the Devil and Satan and is cast into the lake of fire AFTER the Beast and False Prophet are cast in. In fact, it is one thousand years after. Satan will be bound by God for that thousand years. Rev 20.2

All that is said about the Prince of Tyre is in Ezekiel 28 and the context shows this is also the same as Lucifer: was full of wisdom--was perfect in beauty--had been in Eden--was the anointed cherub that covereth--was upon the holy mountain of God--had walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire--had been created perfect in his ways. Lucifer, the Devil, Satan, and the Prince of Tyre are the same character. He will be referred to as Lucifer from here on.

The King of Babylon in Jeremiah 50-51 is the same as the False Prophet who is cast into the lake of fire. The reference to Bel refers to the false religion of "Mystery Babylon" and shows this is the False Prophet.

The King of the North and the Assyrian both die in Israel. Therefore they cannot be the Beast or the False Prophet (who are cast into the lake of fire) as so many have contended over the years. They both are enemies of the False Prophet and they both are to invade Israel after the beginning of the Tribulation.

***Isa. 30:27-33 says, "Behold, the name of the LORD (Christ, YHVH of hosts, Isa. 44:6) cometh from far (Heaven), burning with his anger (it is the Day of God'w Wrath)...Ye shall have a song ('they sung as it were a new song before the throne,' Rev. 14:3), as in the night when a holy solemnity is kept (it is the Feast of Trumpets); and gladness of heart, as when one goeth with a pipe to come into the mountain of the LORD (Heaven), to the mighty One of Israel (Christ). And the LORD shall cause his glorious voice to be heard (Rapture II), and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones. For THROUGH THE VOICE OF THE LORD SHALL THE ASSYRIAN (Ashur) BE BEATEN DOWN, which smote with a rod. And in every place where the grounded staff shall pass, which the LORD shall lay upon him, it shall be with tabrets and harps: and in battles of shaking will he fight with it (the Sword of the Lord, the 'flaming sword' of Gen. 3:24, the asteroid). For TOPHET (meaning 'place of fire') IS ORDAINED OF OLD; YEA, FOR THE KING IT IS PREPARED; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is FIRE and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it." Does Tophet, place of fire, stand for the Lake of Fire? Is this final "KING" cast into the Lake of Fire?

King of the North
"And at the time of the end....the king of the north shall come against him [False Prophet] like a whirlwind.." ***You say that the king of the north shall come against the False Prophet. If "him" there is the False Prophet, I think all the similar pronouns in this passage are the False Prophet. Dan. 11:36-45 says, "And THE KING (the willful king) shall do according to HIS will; and HE shall exalt HIMSELF, and magnify HIMSELF above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, AND SHALL PROSPER TILL THE INDIGNATION BE ACCOMPLISHED (i.e., he is the last king, stopped on the Day of God's Wrath): for that that is determined shall be done. Neither shall HE regard the God (YHVH) of HIS fathers (i.e., he is a Jew), nor the desire of women (Christ), nor regard any god: for HE shall magnify HIMSELF above ALL ('Who opposeth and exalteth HIMSELF above ALL that is called God,' II Thess. 2:4). But in HIS estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom HIS fathers (i.e., he is a Jew) knew not shall HE honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. Thus shall HE do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom HE shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and HE shall cause them to rule over many, and SHALL DIVIDE THE LAND (Israel) FOR GAIN. And AT THE TIME OF THE END shall the king of the south push at HIM: and the king of the north shall come against HIM like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and HE shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. HE shall enter also into the glorious land (Israel), and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of HIS hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. HE shall stretch forth HIS hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. But HE shall HAVE POWER OVER THE TREASURES OF GOLD AND OF SILVER (as in Rev. 13:17), and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at HIS steps. But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble HIM: therefore HE shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. And HE shall plant the tabernacles of HIS palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain (at Jerusalem); yet HE shall come to HIS end, and none shall help HIM."

"He shall enter also into the glorious land [Israel], and many countries shall be overthrown..." (Daniel 11.40-41).
"For out of the north there cometh up a nation against her [Babylon], which shall make her land desolate, and none shall dwell therein: they shall remove, they shall depart, both man and beast." (Jer 50:3 )
"I will raise and cause to come up against Babylon an assembly of great nations from the north country: and they shall set themselves in array against her". (Jer 50.9)
"Behold, a people shall come from the north, and a great nation, and many kings shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth...The king of Babylon hath heard the report of them, and his hands waxed feeble: anguish took hold of him, and pangs as of a woman in travail." (Jer 50:41-43)

The Assyrian
"O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger....I will send him against an hypocritical nation [Israel], and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets. (Isa 10:5)
"And in the latter time of their [Grecian] kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up...and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people." (Dan 8:23-24)

So are the King of the North and the Assyrian one in the same? They both die in Israel and they both invade Israel in the latter days. Daniel 8 tells us the Assyrian comes from one of the divisions of the Grecian Kingdom: Greece, Turkey, Syria, and Egypt. However, Ezekiel 38-39 makes it clear that the northern invading armies are headed by Gog, from the land of Magog.

Magog was a grandson of Noah and according to Josephus, his decedents were called Scythians by the Greeks. In The Prophet Ezekiel, Arno Gabelein states that Magog was called Scythians by the "ancients" and they roamed and settled north of the Black and Caspian Seas. Chuck Missler in The Magog Invasion show clearly that Rosh is Russia. So the northern army is lead by Russia which was not part of the division of the Grecian Empire. The King of the North and The Assyrian cannot be the same person.

Now there are six characters involved with the end-times.
1. Lucifer
2. The Beast
3. The False Prophet
4. The Whore6. The King of the North

As concerns the Whore, there is no question that she is in Babylon.

Jer 51:7
-Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD'S hand
-that made all the earth drunken
-the nations have drunken of her wine
-therefore the nations are mad.

John uses the exact same words about the woman upon the scarlet beast.

Rev. 17.4-6
-And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour
-having a golden cup in her hand
-And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints
-and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus

The whore is either Babylon itself and/or the Mystery Babylon, the mother of all false religions. The angel that showed John the scarlet colored beast tells John that the seven heads on the beast are two different things: seven mountains AND seven kings (vs.9-10). In vs. 18, the angel tells John that the woman is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.

The seven mountains certainly appear to be Rome, but you and I both know that the False Prophet moves the religious headquarters to Babylon. The beast and the ten horns hate the Whore and, by the will of God, they burn her with fire. But the ten horns and the beast ARE Rome (revised Roman empire).  If "that great city" which "are seven mountains" is Rome, then the beast and ten horns would be burning themselves with fire. This is very confusing and I can find no more info to shed light on this confusing situation.

I hoping you can help me out on this one.

Hope this finds you and Ed well.

Agape to you both, Jack
***From Marilyn: Ed and I are well, and hope you are too. Please pray for Brandi...

I will send one study I did on the Scarlet Beast in a separate email. It is as long as one Pro and Con, so I will post it on P & C 379. Agape

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Updated 8-27-99