Pro and Con 384

Uploaded 9-10-99

Note: The Sharm el-Shiek Memorandum (Wye-2) land withdrawal agreement signed Sept. 4, 1999 (one week before the Feast of Trumpets), was ratified Sept. 8. The first withdrawals from Judea and Samaria are to get underway Sept. 10. Negotiations on Permanent Status negotiations are to resume not later than Sept. 13, 1999 (date the Oslo Accords were signed in 1993, and date of Feast of Trumpets, 2007). A Framework Agreement on all Permanent Status issues is to be concluded 5 months from that date (Feb. 13, 2000). A comprehensive agreement on all Permanent Status ussues is to be concluded within 1 year from Sept. 13, 1999 (Sept. 13, 2000). I think it will be confirmed by the Tribulation Pope and the then leader in Israel on the Feast of Weeks, Sivan 6, 5761 (May 28, 2001), kicking off the Seventieth Week of Daniel.

Incoming Email

Re: Brandi's recovery
What wonderful news!! It looks like a clear answer to prayer when recovery is that rapid...of course, there are probably days and weeks of processing and rebuilding to do, but hopefully that is the end of it!! We're so thankful to the Lord and grateful for your eased burden. Thank you for letting us know and be a part of prayer. God Bless

My reply

Dave requests that I give you and everyone A BIG HEARTFELT THANK YOU from him for all your prayers for his daughter Brandi. Last night, with a big grin, he asked, "Would you like to see Brandi tomorrow?" She is planning to come here today. She must feel a lot better to want to ride about 50 miles to get here. Praise the Lord; he has answered our fervent prayers. Agape

Incoming Email

Dennis Dyer wrote:
In Exedous it says Three times each year you must present yourself before God, Passover (when Jesus died and arose) Pentecost (when the Holy Spirit became necessary) and Tabernacles (when God the father met with each family). I Thes. 5:23 I pray your spirit, soul and body be preserved blameless till the coming of the Lord.

The first two have come to pass. We await tabernacles.

Where is the Chapter and verse that talks of a RAPE-ture. Why does the Bible say the good christians will have TRIBULATION but escape His wrath? The uprighteous will suffer both tribulation and wrath. "In the world ye (good christians) shall have tribulation". John 16:33

How can we overcome the tribulation if He takes us away from it? Should we wait for the manifestation of the Sons of God or wait for a made up rape ture? Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waitheth for the manifestation of the Sons of God. (not a rape ture)

If your goal is to fly away and eat pie in the sky for seven years then why does the bible say that we should stay on the earth? Proverbs 10:30 The righteous shall never be removed but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.

Psalms 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein forever. Proverbs 2:21-22 For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it. Psalms 125:1 They that trust in the LORD shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever. Psalms 78:69 And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever. Gen8:21-22And the LORD smelled a sweet savour, and the LORD said in his heart,I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imiagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living as I have done. While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night SHALL NOT CEASE.

Revelations says we shall rule and reighn ON THE EARTH.

The individual Christian will have to study the Bible and come to his own conclusion. The test is weather the Christian should follow the word of God or follow the tempting story of a powerful Rape ture preacher. Belief in the Rape ture story keeps too many people from progressing into deeper Bible truths. Why put on the armor of God when you'll be gone?

Psalms "Choose Life." Don't stay apostate and wait for death. For the schriptures also say that My people will perish for their lack of knowledge.

My reply

> The first two have come to pass. We await tabernacles.

You can await Tabernacles if you want to. That is your choice. As for me, I am awaiting Pentecost. God's clock for Israel stopped on Pentecost, and I expect it to restart on Pentecost. To me, Song of Sol. 2:10-14 means that when the Lord says, "COME UP HITHER" (Rev. 4:1) and "ARISE, my love (i.e., my Bride), my fair one, and COME AWAY" (Song 2:13), the winter is over, the rains (both the former rains of Tishri and the latter rains of Nisan) are over and gone. Green figs and the firstripe grapes are found in Israel. To me, the former rain of Tishri eliminates the three feasts of Tishri, Trumpets, Day of Atonement and Tabernacles. The latter rain of Nisan eliminates the three feasts of Nisan, Passover, Unleavened Bread and Firstfruits. Of the seven feasts, only Pentecost is left. It is also the only feast that has been demonstrated to belong to the Church.

Micah 7:1,2 says, "WOE is me! for I am as (figurative language) when they have gathered the summer fruits, as the grapegleanings of the vintage (in Tishri): there is no cluster to eat: my soul desired the FIRSTRIPE FRUIT (at Pentecost). The good man is perished (ESCAPED) out of the earth: and there is none upright among men."

Isa. 57:1 says, "THE righteous perisheth (abab, exits, ESCAPES), and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are TAKEN AWAY, none considering that THE RIGHTEOUS IS TAKEN AWAY FROM THE EVIL TO COME." The evil to come is the Tribulation.

Luke 21:36 says, "WATCH ye therefore, and PRAY ALWAYS, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS (the Tribulation) that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." The word for escape is EKPHEUGO, "escape OUT OF or AWAY FROM." We get our word EXIT from the prefix, "EK." Strong's gives "vanish" as an alternate meaning for EKPHEUGO. From ESCAPE to VANISH, not the slightest hint of "survive through."

> Where is the Chapter and verse that talks of a RAPE-ture.

II Peter 3:3,4 says "that there shall come in the last says SCOFFERS, walking after their own lusts, And saying, WHERE IS THE PROMISE OF HIS COMING?" or worse, as you put it, "Where is the Chapter and verse that talks of a RAPE-ture"?

If I were you, instead of scoffing, I would confess to being disrespectful of the Rapture. You need to be pure in God's sight when the Bridegroom comes for his Bride, the wise virgins, or you could be left behind as the foolish virgins will be. Mt. 25:10-12 says, "And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not."

Eph. 4:30 says, "grieve not the holy Spirit of God."

The word translated "caught up" in the Rapture passage in II Thess. 4:17 (quoted below) is "harpazo" in the Greek, "rapiemir" in my Latin Bible, and "Rapture" in English. If you prefer, you can call it the Catching Up, or the Harpazo. In spite of my two years of Latin, I much prefer the simple and very expressive English "Rapture." It will be a rapturous event. Faith will have become reality as we rise to meet the Lord in the air.

There were scoffers in Noah's day too, but it did rain, much to their chagrin.

> Why does the Bible say the good christians will have TRIBULATION but escape His wrath?

We all have tribulations, but The Tribulation is the worst seven years to hit this planet since there was a nation. The shortened Tribulation ends with the Day of God's Wrath. Dan. 12:1 says, "and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time."

> The uprighteous will suffer both tribulation and wrath. "In the world ye
> (good christians) shall have tribulation". John 16:33

In John 16:33, Jesus was speaking to "His disciples" (Jn. 16:29) before the Crucufixion. He told them, In the world (kosmos, world-system) ye shall have tribulation (all but John were killed): but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."

I Thess. 5:9 says, "God hath NOT APPOINTED US TO WRATH, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ."

Rom. 8:1 says, "THERE is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk NOT AFTER THE FLESH, but after the Spirit."

> How can we overcome the tribulation if He takes us away from it?

We can overcome the tribulations we have now. If we don't, we could be in danger of his leaving us behind to suffer The Great Tribulation. All of Jesus' wonderful promises in Rev. 2 and 3 are to "overcomers."

Rev. 3:10-12 says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will KEEP THEE FROM the hour of temptation (pierasmos, trial), which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I COME QUICKLY (at the Rapture): hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown (awarded at the Rapture). Him that OVERCOMETH will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem.

> Should we wait for the manifestation of the Sons of God or wait for a made up rape ture?
> Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waitheth for the manifestation
> of the Sons of God. (not a rape ture)

We are to wait for the Lord from Heaven. I Thess. 1:10 says, "to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us FROM THE WRATH TO COME."

II Peter 3:14 says, "be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless." Verses 16-18 say that in Paul's epistles, there are "some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."

Rom. 8:18-24 says, "I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature (lit., creation) waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God....For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body (at the Rapture). For we are saved by hope."

Titus 1:12-15 says, "Teaching us that, denying ungodlimess and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world (lit., age); LOOKING FOR THAT BLESSED HOPE (the Rapture), AND THE GLORIOUS APPEARING OF THE GREAT GOD AND OUR SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us FROM ALL INIQUITY, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."

> If your goal is to fly away and eat pie in the sky for seven years then why
> does the bible say that we should stay on the earth?

It doesn't say that we should stay on the earth.

> Proverbs 10:30 The righteous shall never be removed but the wicked shall not inhabit
> the earth. Psalms 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein
> forever. Proverbs 2:21-22 For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect
> shall remain in it. But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the
> transgressors shall be rooted out of it. Psalms 125:1 They that trust in the LORD
> shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever....
> Gen8:21-22And the LORD smelled a sweet savour, and the LORD said in his heart,I will
> not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imiagination of man's
> heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living
> as I have done. While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat,
> and summer and winter, and day and night SHALL NOT CEASE.

All these are Old Testament verses. They are are for Israel. Under the first covenant, Israel was promised the Earth forever. Under the new covenant (Jesus' Last Will and Testament, put in effect at the death of the testator, Heb. 9:16), we are promised Heaven. Jesus said, "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also" (Jh. 14:2,3).

However, even Abraham has now has chosen Heaven. Heb. 11:15 says, "And truly, if they (Sarah and Abraham among others) had been mindful of that country from whence they came out (Earth), they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city."

> Revelations says we shall rule and reighn ON THE EARTH.

We shall reign "epi," over the Earth. We will be able to travel back and forth as necessary to do our jobs.

> Psalms 78:69 And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth
> which he hath established for ever.

Heaven is his throne and Earth is his footstool. The Lord built Heaven like other spheres in this solar system, "like the Earth," "as the sun" and "as the moon." Psa. 89:36,37 says, "His seed shall endure for ever, and HIS THRONE AS THE SUN before me. It shall be established for ever AS THE MOON, and as a faithful witness (therefore visible) in heaven."

> The test is weather the Christian should follow the word of God or follow the tempting
> story of a powerful Rape ture preacher. Belief in the Rape ture story keeps too many people
> from progressing into deeper Bible truths. Why put on the armor of God when you'll be gone?

Sorry, but belief in the Rapture does not make people examine the scriptures superficially. I have gone as deep as I can ever since before 1960 and still believe in the Rapture. In fact, I believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture for the Bride of Christ and a Pre-Wrath Rapture for the rest of the Body of Christ. The first group are the people "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" of Rev. 5:9. They are "kings and priests: and we shall reign on (margin: over) the earth" (Rev. 5:10). The second are the "great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" of Rev. 7:9 that come "out of great tribulation" (Rev. 7:14). They "serve him day and night in his temple" (Rev. 7:15).

We put on the armor of God now, not later. You should read the whole passage. Eph. 6:10-17 says, "Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil (here on Earth). For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of THIS WORLD, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the WHOLE ARMOUR OF GOD, THAT YE MAY BE ABLE TO WITHSTAND IN THE EVIL DAY, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace: Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God."

> Psalms "Choose Life"

I do. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour.

> Don't stay apostate and wait for death.

I am not expecting to die--ever.

> For the schriptures also say that My people will perish for their lack of knowledge.

Yes, some will, but it won't be me. I am immersed in God's word. You would do well to study it some more, yourself, so you won't be ignorant of the Rapture.

I Thess. 4:13-18 says, "I would not have you to be IGNORANT BRETHREN (believers), concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which HAVE NO HOPE (the Rapture is our "blessed hope," Titus 2:13). For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN UNTO THE COMING OF THE LORD shall not prevent (Old English for precede) them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; THEN WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN SHALL BE CAUGHT UP (harpazo, snatched up with force, raptured) TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Don't forget that Luke 21:36 says, "WATCH ye therefore, and PRAY ALWAYS, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS (the Tribulation) that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." You must be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to ESCAPE."

That means to confess all known sins since you accepted Christ. I John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." With sins all under the blood of Christ, you will be filled with the Holy Spirit and will be as a wise virgin that will be ready when the Bridegroom comes for you.

If you are left behind the first time, you still should wash your robes in the blood of Christ to be taken to Heaven in the second rank, at the last trump. Rev. 7:14 says, "These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have WASHED THEIR ROBES, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

There are two Raptures. I Thess. 4:16 is the first trump of God calling up the saints. I Cor. 15:51,52 is the "last trump." I hope you join us at the first trump. Jesus says to the foolish Laodiceans, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." He also tells them that they need "white raiment" (Rev. 3:18,19). Get ready, time is growing short. Agape

Incoming Email

FWD: THE THIRD DAY, By Jim Bramlett

> There is credible scholarly evidence that this month, September, 1999, will be the
> historic 2,000th birthday of our Lord Jesus Christ. Many believe the birthday
> specifically will be on Rosh Hashannah, September 11-12 -- THIS WEEKEND!

***I firmly believe that Rosh Hashannah, 1999, is Jesus' birthday, but not his 2000th. I think he was born in BC 5. He was baptized in the 15th year of Tiberius, 26 AD. Tiberius began to Co-Rex with Augustus in 12 AD. He had authority over Palestine from then on, Augustus concerning himself with other parts of his kingdom. Tiberius became Sole-Rex in 14 AD.

***At his first Passover after John baptized him, the temple was 46 years in building. It was started in BC 20/19. This makes the 46th year 27 AD. Jesus was about 30 years old when he was baptized in 26 AD. This puts his birth in BC 5.

***2000 years from BC 5 is 1996 AD (2000 years - 5 + 1 because no zero year = 1996).

> The 2,000th birthday of Jesus, the Messiah of Israel and the world, will mark the end of
> the "second (millennial) day" since His birth and the beginning of "the third day." A
> strong case can be made that this is that time referred to by Hosea 6:2 because neither
> a literal 24-hour day nor a millennial day definition has ever been fulfilled before.

***I think the 2000 years was fulfilled in 1948. Hos. 6:1-3 says, "Come, (the remnant of Israel says), and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days (two 1000-year days) will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight." Jesus Christ, an Israelite, was resurrected in the third 24-hour day. The modern nation of Israel was raised up in the third 1000-year day. Israel's captivity began 2470 years before Israel became a nation in 1948.

***Continuing, Hosea said, "Then (1948) shall we KNOW, if we follow on (to the Sign of the End of the Age in 1967) to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." I think Jesus came the first time as the former rain on Tishri 1 and he will come the second time as the latter rain on Nisan 1 (Ezek. 29:17,21).

***In De. 11:14, the LORD said, "I will give you the rain of your land (Israel) in HIS DUE SEASON (in Christ's due season), the first (or former) rain and the latter rain."

***Joel 2:23 says, "Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain (First Advent) moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month." Since the same word is used for month and new moon, when no day number is given, we are to assume that it is the first day of the month. The first day of the civil year is Tishri 1, which is also when the former rain begins. The first day of the sacred year is Nisan 1, which is also when the latter rain begins. That Jesus will return as King of kings and Lord of lords on Nisan 1 makes sense, for Nisan 1 is also the first day of the Jewish Regnal Year. I think Jesus will return at the second advent on the same day that all the other Hebrew kings officially took office.

***This leaves "his going forth is prepared as the morning" that just might have a connection with the Rapture. Do you have any ideas how this might tie in? It could refer to early in the third day.

***Actually, I think this age began when the Magi visited Jesus when he was about two years old, in BC 3. They gave him gifts as if anointing him both King and the High Priest. 2000 - 3 + 1 because there is no zero year = 1998 AD. Do you think the third day could refer to the third year after that (1998, 1999, 2000)? It would fit the three years in the parable of the barren fig tree in Lu. 13:6-9. Jesus comes in the third year and says that he has come LOOKING these three years. He only speaks in the third year. He neither comes nor speaks in the extra year.

> ...A friend called the other day and reminded me of the many references to the "THIRD DAY"
> in Scripture and how they sound like the resurrection/rapture. I did not do an exhaustive
> study, but here are a few. Check the wording for yourself (emphasis supplied):

1. No need to remind you that Jesus was resurrected on the THIRD DAY (Matthew 20:19, etc.). "Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming" (1 Corinthians 15:23).

***If the Rapture is to take place in the 3rd millennium after Jesus was born, it would hold true even if Jesus was born in BC 5. The 2000 years would have been up in 1996 AD. No doubt the Rapture will take place in the third millennium, or after 2000 years have passed.

> 2. Exodus 19:11. (Moses)"Let them be ready for the THIRD DAY. For on the THIRD DAY
> the LORD will COME DOWN on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people."
>
> 3. 2 Kings 20:5. "I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; surely I will
> heal you. On the THIRD DAY you shall GO UP to the house of the LORD."
>
> 4. Ezra 6:15. "Now the TEMPLE was finished on the THIRD DAY ..." (WE are
> now the temple, a temple near completion at the end of the Gentile Age).
>
> 5. Esther 5:1. "Now it happened on the THIRD DAY that Esther put on her royal robes
> and stood in the inner court of the king's palace..." (Wow, what symbolism!).
>
> 6. John 2:1. "On the THIRD DAY there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee."
>
> THE SEVENTH DAY.
>
> There is also credible scholarly evidence according to biblical chronology
> that September 11-12, 1999 will also mark the end of the SEVENTH DAY --

***This sounds like a typo. Surely this should say the beginning of the 7th day.

> 6,000 years since Adam's birth and "the sixth millennial day" and the beginning of "the
> seventh millenial day," or you could say the "sabbath day" of all history. Two Scripture
> verses tell us that in God's method of counting, 1,000 years = 1 day (Psalm 90:4 and
> 2 Peter 3:8).
>
> There is also much symbolism in references to "the seventh day" in Scripture; for
> example, Exodus 16:20: "So the people rested on the seventh day."
>
> What are the odds in all of history of the third day "raising up" of
> Hosea 6:2 and the seventh day "rest" beginning at the same time?

***I don't think they really begin at the same time. The seventh day rest, the "sabbatismos" of Heb. 4:9, is the Day of the Lord. According to Mal. 4:5, Elijah must come before the Day of the Lord can begin. The Tribulation is Israel's 5th cycle of discipline (Lev. 26:28). I think it is inserted into the timeline, and the Millennium will start on the 2300th day (Dan. 8:14) of the Tribulation.

> The odds are incalculable; but anyhow, God doesn't deal in odds but in His plan and purposes.
>
> Thanks to Bonnie Gaunt, most of you already know that the Hebrew gematria
> (letter/number equivalents), reveal to us the following when the numbers
> for the below words are multiplied together:
>
> S I X D A Y S = 5760
> T H I R D D A Y = 5760
>
> And 5760 is the Jewish year that begins September 11-12, 1999!
>
> These are days to be especially watchful.

***I agree. If Tishri 1 is not the day of the Rapture, 5760 may still mark the year of the Rapture.

> This is the most incredble time in all history to be alive as millennia-old Bible prophecy
> is being fulfilled before our very eyes. I have no doubt that the resurrection/rapture
> will be on the THIRD DAY and the SEVENTH DAY of God's calendar. I do not know how close
> to the beginning of those days it will be, but I believe it will be extremely early.

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