Pro and Con 391
Incoming Email Do you think it could be significant that in our culture people usually get married on Saturday; since Jesus said they'd be marrying right up to the day that he would come, as it was in Noah's day?
Also I have a thought that the oil represents not the Holy Spirit Himself but the knowledge that you get from Him. (Oil of the Holy Spirit) That's why the foolish ask for some from the wise and the wise say there may not be enough for us and you both! How could there not be enough Holy Spirit? Also they are told to go to them that sell and buy for themselves, (which Jesus also counsels them to buy gold tried in the fire...And anoint their eyes with eyesalve...) This would make sense since they had some to start with but not enough to light them all the way. Their lamps go out because they didn't pay attention and obtain that which would have prepared them for this moment...And knowing that they could trust in the finished work of Jesus to cover them rather than looking to their own works of righteousness and feeling like a grasshopper before the giants...(He is faithful and just to forgive...) And we know from Peter when he rebuked Simon the sorcerer, that you cannot purchase the gift of the Holy Spirit, but all through the bible we are told to obtain wisdom and knowledge as if it were costly jewels or gold and silver...etc. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light to my path...I think the reason the wise could not share this with the foolish is because we will need to use all the knowledge we possess just to accept the magnitude of the spectacle of graves opening and our Lord appearing in the clouds just as the disciples saw Him go...Also isn't it interesting that when Joshua was about to take the children of Israel into the promised land, he saw the Lord but did not know if He was for "Us or our adversaries..." (Just like the disciples did not recognize Jesus when He came walking on the water to them in the boat and they were afraid, until He identified Himself...) Once the Captain of the Lord's Host identified Himself, then Joshua knew and accepted who He was. But if you remain the least bit unsure, I think you will be too afraid just like the children of Israel were, to go in. By the time they realize that this truly was it, and they say they're ready it will be too late. Hebrews 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. (Literally, "wait one day too late") For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. The gospel that is preached is that Jesus paid it all, and like Joshua and Caleb I say to all who trust in Jesus: Numbers 13:30 And Caleb stilled the people before Moses, and said,Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it. Let us hold fast our confidence firm unto the end!
My reply > Do you think it could be significant that in our culture people
> usually get married on Saturday
It may tie in, but what was the custom among the Jews is more likely to tie in. However, I think the Marriage of the Lamb comes on the first day of the millennial "sabbatismos."
The Rapture seems to be the espousal. In Israel, it was binding. Mary was Joseph's "espoused wife" (Lu. 2:5). Mt. 1:18 says, "When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together." If the Rapture comes on next Sivan 7, it will be Saturday, the "Shabbat." It is interesting to find out that the Hebrew for Saturn is "Shabbatai." I have a feeling that we will go to the third heaven (II Cor. 12:2), to Shabbatai, on the Shabbat. It seems like something the Lord would do. I think Jesus was born on Shabbat, his throne is on Shabbatai, and his earthly kingdom is the Sabbatismos. He truly is Lord of the Sabbath.
> I have a thought that the oil represents not the Holy Spirit
> Himself but the knowledge that you get from Him. (Oil of the Holy Spirit)
I think the consecrating oil put on Aaron represented the Holy Spirit. I John 2:20 says, "But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye (ones of the last generation) know all things." Verse 27 uses the same word, but translates it "anointing." It says, "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." The anointing teacheth, is truth, and these are to abide in him. We are to abide in Christ. To me, the oil represents the Spirit of Christ, which is the Spirit of God (Rom. 8:9), which is the Holy Spirit that teaches us. I think the oil represents the teacher, not the thing being taught.
It is necessary that we have enough of the holy Spirit. Rom. 8:11 says, "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies BY HIS SPIRIT THAT DWELLETH IN YOU." We are not to quench the Spirit. That means that we don't want any unconfessed sin forming a sin barrier between us and God. We want to be filled with the Holy Spirit.
> How could there not be enough Holy Spirit?
There is enough. All the Universe can't contain Him. The question is, how much do we have of Him? Sin has been taken out of the way as an issue in Salvation, but sin can form a barrier to keep us from being filled to the brim with the Holy Spirit. Remember king David said that his cup runneth over? That is how we want to be filled--brim full.
Incoming Email Re: Pentecost
Hi Marilyn and Ed, the score is Marilyn 0 - Scorners 5, Marilyn 0 - Ridiculers 3, Agee 0 - Revilers 2. You have been swinging faithfully at the prophetic ball, but your home run ball keeps drifting out of bounds. The Opponents (the scorners, the NO double or split rapture group) and the Umpires (the Ridiculers, the NO pre-Trib rapture group), the Fans (the Revilers, the NO Pentecost rapture group) all say in their hearts that you have struck out now.
The faithful know that you can't strike out with God. Ed Whisenant had two strikes, Bob Langford had one strike, and they both left the field not realizing that they had several more at bats. God does not count the strikes only the opponents, umpires and fans do. You are still up to bat and most of the fans, umpires and opponents have gone home. They will not know when you hit the home run because they have; looked back, taken their hand off the plow, stopped watching at the critical moment, and they have more firmly settled in their mind and heart, that NO MAN can know the day or the hour, (even when all the scriptures, all the prophecies, all the warnings zero in on this particular time for the fulfilment of God's time of Grace.) They have thought an evil thought and cast aspersions on you. Have they in self righteousness started to beat a fellow servant? No, they see you as they want to see you. Praise God, he sees us much better than we see each other. He knows our hearts. Thank you for doing without so you could diligently search the scriptures and reason with God the outcome of all things. I know you have sacrificed everything; health, money, friends, time and entertainment because you have done what God wants you to do. How many of us will be able to offer these things up to God? You have the ten talents and will be given the talents of the slothful servants. You are already rich in heaven. You will have health, money, friends, time and joy in heaven. Many of us will be thankful for just making it to heaven. Jesus told us about you, the faithful servant. You must continue to rise above the crowd. Their taunts and vilification will be as sweet perfume to you some day. I wonder why Christians find if necessary to crucify each other and the Jew. And they do it with the word of God and in the name of God or Jesus. God will avenge himself on those who take pleasure in the downfall of others. We can rejoice in his nearness to us. If our conversation (citizenship) is in heaven, then we have already been raptured. How much closer can he be than that? If you reach out in your heart can you touch him? Has he been so close that the hem of his garment has only been an inch from our reach? Is he one heartbeat away from fully gathering us to his bosom? Beloved John had the priviledge of leaning on the Masters chest at the last supper. How close he must have felt to Jesus after the Ascencion for over 60 years. And yet, we have even more promises from Jesus. We will be the generation that Jesus comes for as his Bride. We will be married to him and have a banquet celebration second to none. How close will the Bride be? The two shall be as one. Will we be married in heaven? Yes, to Jesus. Will we have children in heaven? Yes, he will give us thousands of joyful little babes that never saw the light of day, or who lived and died because they were only children. Those who have left their homes and families for the sake of Christ, who love him more that their own will be given huge families in heaven. Everything that has been done for Christ's sake will be rewarded up to a hundredfold.
As so many have already said, keep on posting.
If there be any among the readers of this post who feel led of the Lord, a donation from your heart given out of your need, for Ed and Marilyn, will not go unrewarded by our faithful Father. Yes, Marilyn, chills for what God is doing in your life, and shudders for what he will do in others who disdain God's servants.
My reply Thanks. What a neat thought. Yep. Here I am, still up to bat. I hope I hit a home run instead of getting a third strike. Maybe I can turn around like the Angels have done lately. Only thing, I didn't get two strikes on me on purpose. Agape
Incoming Email ...So happy to hear Brandi is well. We need to keep our loved ones in prayer at all times. On you P/C 390 a reference is made to John Branham. I believe some one referenced a scripture recently on one of your P/Cs that mentioned our awaiting the Manifest Sons of God. You said we should be awaiting Jesus Christ. I thing that J.B. was the founder of the Manifest Sons group or it branched off from his teachings in the 40s. That movement spiraled down until it was reawakened by some off-shoots of John Wimber's church, the Vineyard. There are many "prophets" that have banded together today in group in Kansas City. I believe that there is some connection to the Toronto and Pensacola movements, too.
Tommy Ice has a new book out, "The Return with several pre-trib authors on different subjects. One in particular is an excellent discussion on Apostasy meaning departure rather than the commonly held falling away or rebellion. it certainly enhances a pre-trib rapture when reflected in that light. Your responses to the post tribbers and the Pre-wrathers and the Preterists are very enlightening. They cling to some other Hope than the soon coming of the Lord. In His Love
My reply Thanks. Brandi came in and her name just happened to jump off the screen at her. She read what you said out loud and said, "Cool." I told her how everyone was praying for her. I told her someone asked if she was in CHOC (Children's Hospital of Orange County). I told her that I said that no, she was in Children's Hospital of Mission Viejo. She said, "Oh, but I was. That was CHOC. I have a CHOC bear they gave me." She said she was sick 19 days, in the hospital 11, and went home the day before her birthday, but she still can't remember Carol (our daughter) visiting her. She knows Carol came, because she has a bear that has Carol's name on it, but she can't recall the visit at all. She was too much out of it with high fever.
I appreciate your telling me about Branham. Agape
Incoming Email Re: waiting for the rapture: John McDonnell wrote:
There are two problems with waiting for a rapture to whisk one away from coming tribulations:
1.Tribulations are already here for many Christians worldwide. In the last few years millions have been persecuted or killed in Africa, China, and other places. Tribulations are soon coming to North American Christians. It is better to prepare for tribulations than have them come as a total shock, which may cause one to be angry at God.
2.The argument that Christians will be raptured away before the Antichrist is revealed, and therefore any identification mark taken by Christians before the rapture cannot be the mark of the beast, will cause many believers in the rapture to take the mark of the beast, who Christians will not be raptured away from. Rather, a place of safety will be provided for Christians refusing to take the mark, if they can escape the coming persecutions long enough to get there. This coming community on Earth will be protected by the powers of God.
Since these expressions of mine will not cause you to change your beliefs, why am I expressing them? Because when the coming tribulations begin and you are not raptured away from them, perhaps criticisms of your rapture theories will be vaguely remembered, so that you will not be angry at God but angry at yourself for having been deceived about the false hope of a pre-tribulation rapture.
My reply I have visited your web site. You are Mormon. You gave quotes from the RLDS Doctrine and Covenants and wrote the following:
>> Many Christians believe that the Rapture, being caught up to be with Christ while those left on earth go through terrible experiences, is now imminent, which means now ready to happen. By contrast, I find the scriptures teaching that a Confrontation with Christ is now imminent, and that the Rapture will not occur until Christ descends to reign upon Earth for a thousand years, which will happen several years after the Confrontation.>>
Since you have presented your thoughts, I will honestly tell you what I think. At the present time, I doubt that you need to worry about being part of the Rapture, whenever it is. There is something far more important that you need to figure out.
What is this "Confrontation with Christ" that is now imminent? Confrontation means to face in challenge, to oppose. When he comes for his Bride at the Rapture, what do you mean to do, fight against Christ? That is what Satan would like to do. Are you on his side?
If you are going to confront Christ, I think you should know who you are dealing with.
You believe in the Book of Mormon. In Alma 36:17, it speaks of "the coming of one Jesus Christ, A SON OF GOD, to atone for the sins of the world." Is this what you believe?
In the Holy Bible (KJV), John 1-3,14 says, "IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father."
Do you see the difference? Christ is not "A SON OF GOD," as one among many. He is THE SON OF GOD, the only one of his kind. The Jehovah's Witnesses teach that he was "a god" (John 1:1, New World Transation). Are you on their side?
They say that the Greek Emphatic Diaglott proves that it should say "a god." It doesn't. In "The Emphatic Diaglott," Greek text plus the English translation by Wilson, it says in the Greek, "kai theos en o Logos" (and God was the Logos), which Wilson translated "and the LOGOS was God." Colwell's Rule of Greek Grammar says that a definite predicate nominative takes the article when it follows the verb; it does NOT do so when it precedes the verb as in John 1:1. The claim of the Jehovah's Witnesses cult will not stand up to scrutiny. Are you still on their side in this matter?
Isa. 44:6 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHVH) the King of Israel, AND his redeemer the LORD (YHVH) of hosts (Christ, our redeemer): I am the first (YHVH King of Israel), AND I am the last (YHVH of hosts, Christ); and BESIDE ME THERE IS NO GOD."
II Cor. 5:19 says, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself." There are no others like him, and there will NEVER be another like him.
In Rev. 1:8, Jesus said, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning (YHVH, the King of Israel) AND the ending (YHVH, of hosts), saith the Lord, which is (at the Rapture, and which was (at the First Advent), and which is to come (at the Second Advent), THE ALMIGHTY." Christ is YHVH of hosts, the Almighty himself. He is the one with whom man has to deal. In the Old Testament, he was YHVH king of Israel, the pre-incarnate Christ. In the New Testament, he is YHVH of hosts, the redeemer, the incarnate Christ.
Isa. 48:12 says, "Hearken unto me...I AM HE, I am the first, I ALSO AM THE LAST. Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together."
In the last chapter in the Holy Bible, Jesus tells us one more time, just in case we failed to understand it, "I AM Alpha AND Omega, the beginning AND the end, the first (Lord of the Old Testament) AND the last" (Lord of the New Testament).
I Cor. 15:47 says, "The first man (Adam) is of the earth, earthy: the second man (Jesus Christ, the second Adam) IS THE LORD FROM HEAVEN."
Isa. 9:6 says, "For unto us a child is born (Jesus, inheriting his human nature from his mother), unto us a son is given (his deity, inherited from his Father): and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace."
What awaits Satan, who plans a "Confrontation" with the Lord at Armageddon? Rev. 20:10 says, "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone."
Do you still plan a "Confrontation" with "THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER"? If so, you know who will win, don't you?
Incoming Email Here is a web page that calculates the Hebrew calendar for April AD 30. It shows Passover - Nisan 15 on a Thursday. Nisan 16 on a Friday and Nisan 17 on a Saturday. How does this fit with a Friday Crucifixion? Should we consider another year?
My reply Computer programs are only as good as the one who made them. This one is unbiblical. It has Nisan 14 as the Eve of Passover and Nisan 15 as Passover. Lev. 23:5,6 says, "In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread."
When it says the fourteenth day, it means the evening that starts the Jewish day. In speaking of the Day of Atonement, Tishri 10, Lev. 23:32 says, "It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the NINTH DAY OF THE MONTH AT EVEN, FROM EVEN UNTO EVEN, shall ye celebrate your sabbath." Nisan 14 is from the even of Nisan 13 to the even of Nisan 14.
> How does this fit with a Friday Crucifixion?
I believe the Crucifixion was on Thursday, Nisan 13, in 30 AD.
> Should we consider another year?
No, 30 AD is the only year that fits all the criteria.
Incoming Email I am glad to know my writing helped. It is easy to see the two Raptures after you get the idea and look carefully at the scriptures. You can even see it in the OT. Micah played the part of one left behind when he said "WOE is me! for I am as (symbolic language) when they have gathered the summer fruits, as the grapegleanings of the vintage (Elul and Tishri): there is no cluster to eat: my SOUL desired the firstripe fruit (at Pentecost). The good man is perished (abad, escaped, exited, evacuated) out of the earth: and there is none upright among men" (Mic. 7:1,2).
Isa. 57:1-3 says, "THE righteous perisheth (abad, escapes), and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are TAKEN AWAY, none considering that the righteous is TAKEN AWAY FROM THE EVIL TO COME. He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness. But draw near hither (the Tribulation is near, but not yet), ye sons of the sorceress, the seed of the adulterer and the whore."
"THE RIGHTEOUS IS TAKEN AWAY FROM THE EVIL TO COME" reminds me of Rev. 3:10: "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee FROM the hour of temptation (peirasmos, trial) which shall (after the Rapture) come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." This is not temptations in general. This is the worldwide trial, the great temptation to take the mark of the beast. You see, by that time, The red dragon has them in his neat trap. His tail has coiled around to enter his seventh head. When this seventh head, (the False Prophet who has swallowed the tail of the dragon) is in full power, no one can buy or sell, buy food or lifesaving medicine, or conduct business, without the mark. They can't even access money they have in the bank and must forfeit it or take the mark/MARC.
Those that do not take the MARC of the Beast will be in the group out of all nations that come out of Great Tribulation in Rev. 7:14, the Pre-Wrath Rapture.
Because one group "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" (Rev. 5:9) is seen in Heaven before the first seal is broken (Rev. 6), I can't see why the Pre-Trib Rapture is so hard for some to see. However, some that are just sure that they are "not deceived" are deceived. They will find out soon. Agape
Incoming Email you're saying that (the bible's saying that) some people who are honestly christians wont go in the first rapture? I ask for forgiveness quite often, but if i sin and Jesus comes, and I haven't asked for forgiveness for that sin, i will have to go through the tribulation, and wait until the second rapture?
My reply Only the Lord knows how much oil of the Holy Spirit we need. Scripture tells us to not quench the Holy Spirit (sin does that until confessed) and to be filled with the Holy Spirit (confessing gets rid of that sin).
All ten in the parable in Mt. 25 were virgins. To me that means they are saved. Their sins have been washed away when they accepted Christ. Yet half are ready when the Bridegroom comes, half are not. Look at the difference between the Philadelphians and the lukewarm Laodiceans. The former have no words of condemnation mentioned against them. They are not told to repent, and they display love. Philadelphia means brotherly love. The Laodiceans (meaning people of judgment) are told, "I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent" (Rev. 3:18,19).
When we slip and sin, we should confess it immediately. Why wait? Agape
Incoming Email I was happy to hear of Brandi,s recovery. The Lord is mighty ,and he does hear the prayer of the righteous. Lately the Holy Spirit has brought to my attention the importance of the feast Tabernacles. One of three major Feast that will be observed Saturday september 25. Jesus attended the Feast in Secret, and on the Last day, that great day of the Feast he spoke, and said if any man thirst, let him come unto me, (come up hither) and Drink, (to dwell in his devine presence). Note that Jesus came alone and spoke on the Last day. I wonder if he was speaking to our generation at this Feast. I will keep a Vigil Sept. 25, in case there is a move of the spirit. God Bless you all!
My reply Brandi even washed my car for me today. I tried to talk her out of it, but she said she wouldn't get wet. They just left to go back to their mom's. They had today off, but have school tomorrow. It was good to have them here an extra day. Each night, she came in to talk to me. Last night, Dave kept doing pantomime to remind her she should get her bath. She said she wanted to talk and Grandma was the only one that would listen to her. Not exactly true, but maybe at that moment everyone else was occupied. She talked up a storm to me each evening this trip. Maybe not talking much while she was so sick is having a reverse effect now. She is probably glad to feel like chatting awhile.
The Feast of Tabernacles would sure be nice, but I think Song of Sol. 2:10-14 puts the Rapture in the spring and not in the rainy months, Tishri and Nisan. I also think Tabernacles will be fulfilled in the Millennium. If the asteroid impacts and worldwide earthquake shakes down the cities and every wall, the Jews that have been born in a day on Tishri 1, repented and been accepted on the Day of Atonement, will HAVE to live in booths on that Tabernacles. Agape
Pro and Con 392 Or Return
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