Pro and Con 396
Incoming Email FWD 9-29-99: From Van Impe - amazing how all is falling into place- Are they reading from a script??:
Religion News Today reported: "The world's foremost secular humanists are calling for a world government. The International Academy of Humanism's Humanist Manifesto 2000, signed by more than 100 academics and intellectuals, calls for the formation of a World Parliament to regulate environmental, economic, and population concerns, Religion News Service said. It is the fifth such declaration issued by humanists since 1933...The World Parliament should have more power than the United Nations, the group said. National boundaries and cultural and religious differences should slowly be eliminated, it said. New agencies are needed to oversee and regulate worldwide environmental conditions, transnational taxation to distribute more money to poorer nations, and population control, it said...The document criticizes religious beliefs. 'Theological moral doctrines often reflect inherited, prescientific conceptions of nature and human nature,' and are outdated, it said. 'We do not deny that religionists have done much good; what we deny is that religious piety is the sole guarantee of moral virtue.' Document signers include philosopher Paul Kurtz, entertainer Steve Allen, anthropologist Paul Leakey, former California Sen. Alan Cranston, and nine Nobel laureates."
My reply Thanks for all the great news you send. Things are falling in place at an increasing pace. The world is moving toward disaster. I'm sure glad that we have our "blessed hope" of Titus 2:13, the great "escape" of Lu. 21:36, set before us. The Lord is good, and I do understand that Jesus said, "there is none good but one, that is, God" (Mt. 19:17).
Incoming Email Marilyn, these websites belong to close friends of mine and may help you in your research and studies.
My reply Thanks. I have read both before, but read them again. Here are some excerpts with my comments interspersed.
Hag HaSuccoth - (Feast of Tabernacles) - By Greg Killian
...scripture...from the NIV...
Leviticus 23:34-44 "Say to the Israelites: 'On the fifteenth day of the seventh month HaShem's Feast of Tabernacles begins, and it lasts for seven days. The first day is a sacred assembly; do no regular work....
The "sacred assembly" is a rehearsal meeting (mik-raw), according to Strong's:
4744 miqra', mik-raw'; from 7121; something called out, i.e. a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the place); also a rehearsal:-assembly, calling, convocation, reading.
The "closing assembly" is NOT a rehearsal meeting (mikra)....
***From Marilyn: The "sacred assembly" of the NIV is the "holy convocation" in the KJV. Lev. 23:35,36 (KJV) says, "On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein....on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you...it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein." All the feasts are REHEARSALS. Lev. 23:4 says, "These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations."
Deuteronomy 16:13-17 Celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles for seven days after you have gathered the produce of your threshing floor and your winepress....
***The important word is "AFTER." Tabernacles was kept AFTER the wheat harvest of Pentecost and AFTER the vintage of Elul and early Tishri. I think the Pre-Trib Rapture is on Pentecost and the Pre-Wrath Rapture is on Tishri 1.
Psalms 27...[v. 5] For in the day of trouble he will keep me safe in his dwelling; he will hide me in the shelter of his tabernacle and set me high upon a rock....
***The Day of Jacob's Trouble is Tishri 1. Dan. 12:1,2 says, "AND at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be A TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME: and at that time (Tishri 1, 5768) thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake." Psa. 27:5 shows that at the Pre-Wrath Rapture on the Day of Jacob's Trouble (Tishri 1, 5768), the saints will be set "high upon a rock." That is Heaven, the third heaven (II Cor. 12:1,2), the third heavenly "rock," Mars, Jupiter, Saturn.
John 7:1 - 8:1 ...when the Jewish Feast of Tabernacles was near, Jesus' brothers said to him, "You ought to leave here and go to Judea...Jesus told them, "The right time for me has not yet come...I am not yet going up to this Feast, because for me the right time has not yet come."...Not until halfway through the Feast did Jesus go up to the temple courts and begin to teach....
***Jesus was demonstrating that Tishri 15, Tabernacles, was not the date of his coming.
Birth of Jesus during Succoth:
Our starting point is:
Luke 1:5 In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron.
From this we learn that John the Baptist's father was part of the Levitical priesthood group known as Abijah.
Next we learn when Abijah served during the biblical year:
I Chronicles 24...The first lot fell to Jehoiarib, the second to Jedaiah, The third to Harim, the fourth to Seorim, The fifth to Malkijah, the sixth to Mijamin, The seventh to Hakkoz, the eighth to Abijah...
There were 24 courses. Abijah was the eighth course.
Three times a year all 24 courses had to serve:
Deuteronomy 16:16 Three times a year all your men must appear before HaShem your God at the place he will choose: at the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the Feast of Weeks and the Feast of Tabernacles....
The following verse indicates that the length of service for each course was seven days:
I Chronicles 9...The gatekeepers had been assigned to their positions of trust by David and Samuel the seer. They and their descendants were in charge of guarding the gates of the house of HaShem--the house called the Tent. The gatekeepers were on the four sides: east, west, north and south. Their brothers in their villages had to come from time to time and share their duties for seven-day periods. But the four principal gatekeepers, who were Levites, were entrusted with the responsibility for the rooms and treasuries in the house of God.
The week of service began and ended on the Sabbath:
II Chronicles 23:1-8 ...A third of you priests and Levites who are going on duty on the Sabbath are to keep watch at the doors, A third of you at the royal palace and a third at the Foundation Gate, and all the other men are to be in the courtyards of the temple of HaShem. No one is to enter the temple of HaShem except the priests and Levites on duty...
So, the week of service began and ended on the Sabbath. Now we need to do some arithmetic:
24 courses times 1 week equals 24 weeks that have been served by each course. Then we add the three weeks when all 24 courses served. We now have covered 27 weeks. A biblical year of twelve lunar months totals 354 days. This is eleven days less than a solar year. This means that we have to cover 24 more weeks. Thus we can deduce that each course served a week at the beginning of the year, and a week at the end of the year.
(The number of days that differ from a lunar and a solar calendar, are made up by adding a leap month every two or three years. I do not yet know how the priests served these extra days.)
Each course, therefore, served for one week twice a year, and three times a year they all served (Each course, therefore, served a total of five weeks during the year). The eighth course would therefore serve during the tenth week having allowed for the Feast of Unleavened Bread and the Feast of Weeks, which both occur during the first weeks of the year.
***The important thing here is: "The EIGHTH course would therefore serve during the TENTH week."
Elizabeth conceived John the Baptist AFTER Zechariah had finished his Temple service:
Luke 1:23 When his time of service was completed, he returned home. After this his wife Elizabeth became pregnant and for five months remained in seclusion.
Plus forty weeks, for a normal pregnancy, reveals that John the Baptist was born on Passover. This is interesting because one of the rituals of the Passover is to open the door to welcome Elijah...and Messiah said that John was the Elijah who was to come! Exactly six months after John's conception, Mary conceives Jesus:
Luke 1:23-33 When his time of service was completed, he returned home. After this his wife Elizabeth became pregnant and for five months remained in seclusion. "The Lord has done this for me," she said. "In these days he has shown his favor and taken away my disgrace among the people." In (Elizabeth's) sixth month (of pregnancy), God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, To a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you." Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, And he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."
If John the Baptist was conceived in the eleventh week, Yeshua (Jesus) would have been conceived six months later in the month of Kislev. Kislev 25 is Chanukah.
It is noteworthy that our Messiah, the "light of the world", was conceived on the festival of lights (Chanukah)!
So, six months after John the Baptist is born, Yeshua is born. Therefore, since John was born on the 15th day of the first month (Nisan), Yeshua (Jesus) would be born on the 15th day of the seventh month...six month later. The 15th day of the seventh month is known as Succoth, or the Feast of Tabernacles.
Yeshua (Jesus) was born on Succoth (The Feast of Tabernacles)!
We find an allusion to Yeshua's birth during Succoth in John's Gospel:
John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling (succah) among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth....
***The word "dwelling" is "skenous," dwelling, tent, tabernacle.
The following chart shows the birth details:
The Festival Calendar
MONTH NAME # of EVENT
Nisan (Aviv) 30 Pesach (14th) John the Baptist is born.
Iyar (zif) 29
Sivan 30 Elizabeth gets pregnant (11th week) Luke 1:24
Tishri (Ethanim) 30 Succoth (15th) Yeshua is born.
Succoth (22nd - Feast of Conclusion) (circumcised)
Cheshvan (Bul) 30
Kislev 30 Chanukah (25th) Mary gets pregnant. Luke 1:2
John the Baptist and Jesus:
4 months of 29 days = 116 days plus
5 months of 30 days = 150 days
total = 266 days minus
Human gestation period is 280 days
14 days more, thus the middle of Tishrei...
*** From Marilyn: It doesn't work out to the middle of Tishri for me. Here are my calculations:
Zacharias served in the course of Abia/Abijah, in the 8th course/week. However, three times a year all 24 courses had to serve, Unleavened Bread, Feast of Weeks/Pentecost, and Tabernacles. This added 2 weeks, for Unleavened Bread and Feast of Weeks. He would have served 10 weeks.
Week 1 Nisan 1-7
Week 2 Nisan 8-14
Week 3 Nisan 15-21
Week 4 Nisan 22-28
Week 5 Nisan 29-Iyar 5
Week 6 Iyar 6-Iyar 12
Week 7 Iyar 13-Iyar 19
Week 8 Iyar 20-Iyar 26
Week 9 Iyar 27-Sivan 4
Week 10 Sivan 5-Sivan 11
Zacharias went home on Sivan 12. We don't yet know how long it took for Elisabeth to conceive John the Baptist, so let's assume Sivan 12. Mary visited Elisabeth when it was "the sixth month with her (Lu. 1:26,36).
Month 1 Sivan 12 to Tamuz 11
Month 2 Tamuz 12 to AV 11
Month 3 Av 12 to Elul 11
Month 4 Elul 12 to Tishri 11
Month 5 Tishri 12 to Cheshvan 11
Month 6 Cheshvan 12 to Kislev 11
Mary could have come to visit Elisabeth on Kislev 11. She abode with Elisabeth "about three months" (Lu. 1:56).]
Month 7 Kislev 12 to Teveth 11
Month 8 Teveth 12 to Shevat 11
Month 9 Shevat 12 to Adar 11
John the Baptist could have been born as early as Adar 11. He did not HAVE to be born on Passover. Mary had 6 more months to go.
Month 4 Adar 12 to Nisan 11
Month 5 Nisan 12 to Iyar 11
Month 6 Iyar 12 to Sivan 11
Month 7 Sivan 12 to Tamuz 11
Month 8 Tamuz 12 to Av 11
Month 9 Av 12 to Elul 11
Jesus could have been born as early as Elul 11. He did not HAVE to be born on Tabernacles. Since Hosea 6:3 says he will come unto us as the rain, the former rain and the latter rain, I think Jesus was born on Tishri 1, when the former rain started. We know from Eze. 29:17,21 that the Second Advent will be on Nisan 1, when the latter rain comes, so this makes good sense.
Song of Sol. 3:11 says, "behold king Solomon (type of the greater Son of David) with the CROWN WHEREWITH HIS MOTHER CROWNED HIM IN THE DAY OF HIS ESPOUSALS (chathunnah, wedding)." I think Jesus will receive his golden crown on his birthday, Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007), and afterward will come the Marriage of the Lamb. Jesus becomes King of kings and the Bride becomes the wife.
If Jesus was born on the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, when would he have been conceived? From conception to term is 40 weeks, or 280 days. I think the Lord of the Sabbath was born on the Sabbath, so I will count the weeks from Saturday to Saturday.
Week 1, Saturday, Kislev 16 through Kislev 22
Week 2, Saturday, Kislev 23 through Kislev 29
Week 3, Saturday, Kislev 30 through Teveth 6
Week 4, Saturday, Teveth 7 through Teveth 13
Week 5, Saturday, Teveth 14 through Teveth 20
Week 6, Saturday, Teveth 21 through Teveth 27
Week 7, Saturday, Teveth 28 through Shevat 5
Week 8, Saturday, Shevat 6 through Shevat 12
Week 9, Saturday, Shevat 13 through Shevat 19
Week 10, Saturday, Shevat 20 through Shevat 26
Week 11, Saturday, Shevat 27 through Adar 3
Week 12, Saturday, Adar 4 through Adar 10
Week 13, Saturday, Adar 11 through Adar 17
Week 14, Saturday, Adar 18 through Adar 24
Week 15, Saturday, Adar 25 through Nisan 2
Week 16, Saturday, Nisan 3 through Nisan 9
Week 17, Saturday, Nisan 10 through Nisan 16
Week 18, Saturday, Nisan 17 through Nisan 23
Week 19, Saturday, Nisan 24 through Nisan 30
Week 20, Saturday, Iyar 1 through Iyar 7
Week 21, Saturday, Iyar 8 through Iyar 14
Week 22, Saturday, Iyar 15 through Iyar 21
Week 23, Saturday, Iyar 22 through Iyar 28
Week 24, Saturday, Iyar 29 through Sivan 6
Week 25, Saturday, Sivan 7 through Sivan 13
Week 26, Saturday, Sivan 14 through Sivan 20
Week 27, Saturday, Sivan 21 through Sivan 27
Week 28, Saturday, Sivan 28 through Tamuz 4
Week 29, Saturday, Tamuz 5 through Tamuz 11
Week 30, Saturday, Tamuz 12 through Tamuz 18
Week 31, Saturday, Tamuz 19 through Tamuz 25
Week 32, Saturday, Tamuz 26 through Av 3
Week 33, Saturday, Av 4 through Av 10
Week 34, Saturday, Av 11 through Av 17
Week 35, Saturday, Av 18 through Av 24
Week 36, Saturday, Av 25 through Elul 1
Week 37, Saturday, Elul 2 through Elul 8
Week 38, Saturday, Elul 9 through Elul 15
Week 39, Saturday, Elul 16 through Elul 22
Week 40, Saturday, Elul 23 through Elul 30, labor began
Jesus probably born about midnight, Saturday, as the latter rain, on Tishri 1, New Year's Day
They probably had to register for the census before Tishri 1. I doubt that John the Baptist was born on Passover.
I used the Jewish calendars for 1998 and 1999 to figure the weeks. Their years can be 353, 354, or 355 days (excluding leap years), so the start date could vary a little.
From: THE SEVEN FESTIVALS OF THE MESSIAH, By Eddie Chumney
CHAPTER 9, Sukkot: The Feast of Tabernacles
"Sound the Shofar in Zion and sound the alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the Land tremble: for the day of the Lord cometh, it is nigh at hand" (Joel 2:1)
***From Marilyn: I think the millennial Day of the Lord begins on the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007). The Shofar will sound and since the northern army will be attacking Israel, they will sound the alarm on the silver trumpets of Nu. 10:2-4.
...According to tradition, Moses (Moshe) again ascended Mount Sinai for 40 days and nights to receive the second set of tablets and descended on Yom Kippur, carrying them as a sign of G-d's forgiveness of Israel for the sin of the golden calf, and as a symbol of the lasting covenant between G-d and Israel (Exodus [Shemot] 24:12-18; 34:1-2; 27-28).
***From Marilyn: Then it makes sense that the Lord would accept Israel on the Day of Atonement, Tishri 10, 5768, after the 40 years of probation are up on the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007).
...One of the requirements during the time of Sukkot was to build an outside temporary shelter and live in it during this festival season. This shelter is called a booth, or sukkah. The sukkah had to be built with an opening in the roof so the people could see the stars in heaven. This is another reason for why the rabbis (Wise Men) would be looking for, and thus seeing, the star in the sky when it appeared....
***It took them 4 months to travel. They could not have seen the star and transported themselves to Bethlehem on the same Feast of Tabernacles. I think they visited Jesus when he was about two years old.
Hosea (Hoshea) 6:3 tells us that the coming of the Messiah will be as the former and latter rain on the earth. We just saw in the previous section that Yeshua came to earth (was born) during the festival of Sukkot (Tabernacles), the first month of the civil calendar, and died at His first coming during the first month (Nisan) on the sacred calendar. His second coming will also be in the first month of the civil calendar, Tishrei. Yeshua will return to earth during the fall of the year.
***I don't think so. I think Eze. 29:17,21; Hos. 6:3; and Joel 2:23 tell us that it will be on Nisan 1. This makes good sense because that is the first day of the Regnal and Sacred Year, Regnal because he is King of kings, Sacred because he is Lord of lords. I think he will officially take office on Earth on the same day all the other Israelite kings took office, Nisan 1.
***What will happen on that day? Ezek. 45:18,21 says, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month (Nisan 1), thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary...In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month (Nisan 14), ye shall have the passover." Eze. 46:1 says, "THUS saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the SABBATH it shall be opened, and in the day of the NEW MOON it shall be opened." Verse 3 says, "Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the SABBATHS and in the NEW MOONS."
Incoming Email I LOVED the way you handled the mormon that wrote to you. I was cheering you on! I have a question though. I know you believe that the rapture will be on Pentecost next year. But if that is true, wouldn't that make God's PROMISE of coming back before 2000 to those like David Gant, Scotty (the 10 year old autistic boy) in Texas and Kevin (Jim Bramlett's little friend) null and void? Do we then conclude that God either purposefully deceives His people by telling them 'BEFORE the year 2000" and all the while knowing that it won't be? Or do we think He would tell that statement to different people and then when it doesn't happen, He would send another message saying, "your year 2000 isn't the same as my year 2000". Does God really work like that with His own? Is that the type of Heavenly Father that we serve? Why would God deceive His own people? Please post this and tell me what you think.
My reply Thanks. The only rock-hard truth we have is the Bible. It is our anchor, "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine" (Eph. 4:14). All other things have to be taken with the proverbial grain of salt. God is pure. He does not sin or deceive anyone. He does allow every one of us to be tested. We are to search the scriptures and see if things are so. Pray for understanding and dig deep. The Bible has riches for miners.
Prov. 2:3-5 says, "Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God."
Jesus said, But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things" (Mk. 13:23). The clues are in the Bible. We have to dig them out. Agape
Incoming Email The book "The Two Babylons" by Hislop has moved to http://philologos.org
My reply Thanks. It is a great book.
Incoming Email Why do some prophesy experts believe the date of the rapture could be the year 2001 - 2012. Also, could the rapture be any later than 2012. Why would God allow his learned children to be so far off after being persuaded they have heard from God of His soon return (i.e. Sep, 9, 1999) and from their deligent study of the Word. I look to His return with great anticipation but admit I sometimes get discouraged while "dates come and go". You have stated that you believe the rapture could occur in the year 2000. If wrong, then when? With a loving heart
My reply The year 2001 makes sense. It is, I think, the year the Tribulation begins. However, I think there will be a gap between the Rapture and Tribulation. The year 2012 makes no sense to me. I can't imagine that. The number 40 means probation. Forty years from the Sign of the End of the Age in 1967 is the end of the age, in 2007.
In Lu. 13:32, Jesus said, "Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures TO DAY AND TO MORROW, and THE THIRD DAY I SHALL BE PERFECTED."
We are the Body of Christ. Maybe Christ is doing cures TO DAY and TO MORROW, and THE THIRD DAY WE SHALL BE PERFECTED. We know that we are to be tried to see if we will stand pat or give up. When the Israelites were at Sinai, they were put off until the Lord came down on the third day. Why? Ex. 19:10 says, "And the LORD said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them TO DAY AND TO MORROW, and let them WASH THEIR CLOTHES." We need to confess our sins so we have clean white robes.
I got a neat email today from South Africa. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Here it is:
Dear Marilyn, Thank you for always taking the trouble to clarify things for us, I find your website so interesting and encouraging and since I've "dicovered " you I feel so much more positive and happy within myself. Here is a little story I thought you might enjoy:
The only survivor of a shipwreck was washed up on a small, uninhabited island. He prayed feverishly for God to rescue him, and every day he scanned the horizon for help, but none seemed forthcoming. Exhausted, he eventually managed to build a little hut out of driftwood to protect him from the elements, and to store his few possessions.
But then one day, after scavenging for food, he arrived home to find his little hut in flames, the smoke rolling up to the sky. The worst had happened; everything was lost. He was stunned with grief and anger. "God, how could you do this to me!" he cried. Early the next day, however, he was awakened by the sound of a ship that was approaching the island. It had come to rescue him. "How did you know I was here?" asked the weary man of his rescuers. "We saw your smoke signal," they replied. It is easy to get discouraged when things are going bad But we shouldn't lose heart because God is at work in our lives, even in the midst of pain and suffering. Remember, next time your little hut is burning to the ground - it just may be a smoke signal that summons the grace of God. For all the negative things we have to say to ourselves, God has a positive answer for it.
You say: "It's impossible"
God says: All things are possible (Luke 18:27)...
Pro and Con 397 Or Return
Contact me for more information at: email@example.com
8641 Sugar Gum Road, Riverside, CA, 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110
© 1998, 1999, Marilyn J. Agee