Pro and Con 400

Uploaded 10-4-99

Incoming Email

bramlett@magicnet.net wrote:
Some may not agree with this, and that is okay, as there is room for disagreement on some things.

Lately I have been meditating on the phrase the "day of the LORD," and what it means. Most believe it refers to the tribulation, with the full seven years, or the final 3 1/2 years, or the final literal 24-hour day of wrath. It may mean all of the above!

If a day to the Lord is as a thousand years, to be consistent with the word "day," I have come to believe that "the day of the LORD" may mean the seventh, or sabbath, Millennium, which we are about to enter, possibly on September 11-12, 1999.

According to my computer concordance, the phrase "day of the LORD" occurs 23 times in Scripture: 18 times in the OT and five times in the NT, with one, Acts 2:20, quoting the OT.

The OT instances (addressed mainly to Israel) generally speak of the day as a day of destruction and judgment, probably why most consider it the tribulation.

However, in the NT writings to the Church, the first of the other four references speaks of SALVATION (1 Corinthians 5:5), the second speaks of REJOICING (KJV, or boasting or glorying, 2 Corinthians 1:14). The third and fourth speak of it coming as "a thief in the night" (1 Thessalonians 5:2 and 2 Peter 3:10). However, we know from 1 Thessalonians 5:4-5 that the day will come as a thief only to UNBELIEVERS and NOT come as a thief to believers who are watching.

In addition, there are three NT references to the "day of Christ." Some make a distinction between the day of the Lord and the day of Christ, but since "Christ is LORD" and the LORD is one Lord, I have no trouble believing that they are synonymous. I note that in one of the three references, Philippians 2:16, Paul again speaks of "rejoicing" in the day of Christ!

From the above, it appears that the Day of the LORD will be GOOD for believers, with salvation and rejoicing, implying the resurrection and rapture, but destruction and judgment for non-believing Israel and the world. This fits other biblical insights that the resurrection/rapture will happen at or about the same time as the beginning of the tribulation.

Some may have trouble seeing the long-awaited Millennium of peace beginning with tribulation and judgment. However, author Marvin Byers, in his book, "The Final Victory: The Year 2000," points out a parallel between the Millennium and Solomon's reign, which began with judgment. He says, "Solomon began his reign with great judgments and a thorough cleansing of the Kingdom. He destroyed those who offended and those who had done iniquity," using Adonijah and Joab as examples. He quoted Jesus as referring to Himself as "greater than Solomon," saying that Jesus "...linked His Kingdom and its beginning to the way in which Solomon's began." He quoted Jesus, "...so shall it be in the end of the world. The Son of Man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His Kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity" (Matthew 13:39-41).

I like the way the Lord Jesus ended that statement: "Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

My reply

> I have been meditating on the phrase the "day of the LORD," and what it means. Most
> believe it refers to the tribulation, with the full seven years, or the final 3 1/2
> years, or the final literal 24-hour day of wrath. It may mean all of the above!

I believe the Day of the Lord is the seventh millennium, and it begins on the Feast of Trumpets that is the Day of God's Wrath. One thing is certain. It cannot begin until after Elijah comes and prophesies 1260 days (Rev. 11:3), the first half of the Tribulation. The Day of the Lord has nothing to do with the Pre-Trib Rapture, but the Pre-Wrath Rapture is on the first day, just before God's Wrath is cast on unbelievers left on Earth. I believe the Day of the Lord begins on the 2300th day (Dan. 8:14) of the Tribulation.

Mal. 4:5,6 says, "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet BEFORE the great and dreadful DAY OF THE LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to the fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a CURSE." Here we see that it starts out being "dreadful." The dreadful day is the day the curse hits Earth on the Feast of Trumpets that begins the Millennium.

Zechariah 5:1-4 says, "I turned, and lifted up mine eyes (looked at the sky), and looked, and behold a flying roll (megillah, rolling thing, i.e., a binary asteroid)...the length thereof is twenty cubits (360'), and the breadth thereof ten cubits (180')....THIS IS THE CURSE (a Near Earth Asteroid) THAT GOETH FORTH (orbits) OVER THE FACE OF THE WHOLE EARTH: for every one that stealeth (including the False Prophet) shall be cut off as ON THIS SIDE (one STONE 'TABLET' will impact the Mediterranean Sea, Zeph. 2:4,5) according to it; and every one that sweareth (including the Beast, the Tribulation Pope) shall be cut off as on that side (the other STONE 'TABLET' will impact Babylon, Rev. 18:21) according to it. I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief (the False Prophet, who steals the World Church), and into the house of him that SWEARETH FALSELY BY MY NAME (the Beast, the Tribulation Pope): and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof."

Do you see why Moses broke the two stone tablets with the ten commandments on them when the Israelites made the golden calf? It typified the two pieces of stone that will strike Earth on the Day of God's Wrath.

These two stone "tablets" are the "great mountain burning with fire" that is cast into THE SEA and the "great star (aster, star, asteroid, meteorite) from heaven, burning as it were a lamp" of Rev. 8:8,10.

These impact Earth on one day, at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5; Job 20:23; Amos 8:9; Eze. 25:16) on the Day of God's Wrath. What brings God's fury up in his face is the united nations' army (Isa. 34:2; Zech. 14:2) attacking Israel that day.

Eze. 38: 18-20 says, "And it shall come to pass at the same time (one day) when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken." Now, they've had it. "Surely in that day (one day) there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of THE SEA (the Mediterranean), and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon THE FACE OF THE EARTH, shall shake (worldwide earthquake) at my presence (sight, the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30), and the mountains (two large asteroid pieces) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and EVERY WALL SHALL FALL to the ground."

Civilization as we know it will be destroyed. Babylon will be destroyed in one hour. "Therefore shall her plagues come IN ONE DAY, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her" (Rev. 18:8). "And a mighty angel took up a STONE like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be foung no more at all" (Rev. 18:21).

> Jesus "...linked His Kingdom and its beginning to the way in which Solomon's began." He
> quoted Jesus, "...so shall it be in the end of the world. The Son of Man shall send
> forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His Kingdom all things that offend, and
> them which do iniquity" (Matthew 13:39-41).

Yes. The Lord, the greater Son of David, "will throughly purge his floor (Mt. 3:12).

> In addition, there are three NT references to the "day of Christ." Some make a
> distinction between the day of the Lord and the day of Christ, but since "Christ is
> LORD" and the LORD is one Lord, I have no trouble believing that they are synonymous.
>I note that in one of the three references, Philippians 2:16, Paul again speaks of
> "rejoicing" in the day of Christ!

The Day of the Lord and "the Lord's day" (Rev. 1:10) are not synonymous, but the "day of Christ," "the Lord's day," and the day of "the Son of man" seem to represent the same thing. The Day of the Lord is a 1000-year great day. The "Lord's day" is the day of the Pre-Trib Rapture. So is the "day of Christ" or the day of the Son of man. but there are two days of the Son of man, just as there are two Raptures. Let's look at a few scriptures that show us what the day of Christ is.

In Phi. 1:6, Paul said, "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST" (the Rapture).

In Philippians 2:14-16, Paul said, "Do all things without murmurings and disputings: That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke (as wise Philadelphian virgins), in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world (having enough oil); Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in THE DAY OF CHRIST (the Rapture), that I have not RUN IN VAIN, neither laboured in vain."

In I Cor. 9:24-27, Paul said, "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth THE PRIZE (the Pre-Trib Rapture)? So run, that ye may obtain... I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be A CASTAWAY" (i.e., "RUN IN VAIN," be a foolish virgin left behind at the Pre-Trib Rapture). Phil. 2:16: "I press toward the mark for THE PRIZE OF THE HIGH CALLING OF GOD IN CHRIST JESUS" (the Pre-Trib Rapture).

In I Cor. 4-8, Paul said, "the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ...So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in THE DAY (one day) OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST" (the Pre-Trib Rapture).

In II Cor. 1:14, Paul said, "I trust ye shall acknowledge even to the end; As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are our's in THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS" (the Pre-Trib Rapture).

We can easily see that there is one day of Christ, or day of the Son of man, but there are TWO. There are two Raptures. The first is as the days of Noah. No fire falls that day. The second is as the days of Lot. Fire falls that same day.

In Luke 17:22-37 Jesus said, "The days will come, when ye shall desire to see ONE of the DAYS (plural) OF THE SON OF MAN (the two Raptures), and ye shall not see it....And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the DAYS (plural) OF THE SON OF MAN....Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot...But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the DAY (singular) when the Son of man is revealed (the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30, on the second Day of the Son of Man)....Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they...said unto him, Where Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (Body of Christ) is (in Heaven), thither will the eagles (high flying Tribulation saints) be gathered together."

"And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of HEAVEN" (those who were taken to Heaven in the Pre-Trib Rapture) (Mk. 13:27).

There are two groups of virgins, and two Days of Christ when they are caught up to Heaven. The Philadelphian wise virgins are caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture, before the first seal is broken. The Laodicean foolish virgins are caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture, between the breaking of the sixth and seventh seals. Many of the second group seem to be delivered "unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the DAY OF THE LORD JESUS" (the Pre-Wrath Rapture). These are the martyrs seen under the altar in Rev. 6:9, after the fifth seal is broken.

Incoming Email

I havent written for a while, but I have continued to read your pages with great interest, and youve done it again!

I quote:
"But notice the difference between Lu. 21:20's "WHEN ye shall SEE JERUSALEM COMPASSSED WITH ARMIES" and Mt. 24:15's "WHEN ye therefore shall SEE THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION." They are not alike. The former was to warn of the destruction of 70 AD. The latter is to warn of the destruction coming at the end of this age, I think in 2007 AD."

  You have broken a simple and basic rule of interpretation of scripture. This rule is: Scripture interprets scripture. Matthews Gospel was a public letter to the Jewish Christians at the time. Jesus was very clear.  He said "Let the reader understand" Lukes Gospel was a private letter to Theopilus, Lukes dear friend. The references to Jerusalem and the "desolation" are parallel pasages. They are exact and parallel reports from two different writers of the SAME WORDS Jesus said. For us then, the answer is clear. There needs be no clever interpretations. Jesus meant what He said, and Luke provides the plain answer to Matthews guarded comments. One reference cannot refer to 70 AD and the other 2007 AD That interpretation is silly and faulty, and pure conjection. They either both refer to 70 AD, or they both apply to some future speculated time. Because of yet another basic rule of interpretation that is: "The plain interprets the obscure" I choose to believe that both references apply to 70 AD. God bless you as you tidy up your hermenutics.

In His Name who is the King of kings and Lord of lords, reigning now and forwever... Jesus. Your friend

My reply

That is what we are to do, choose what we believe. You choose to believe that both refer to 70 AD. I don't. To me, here is the way *Mt. 24:15-32, **Mk. 13:14-28 ***Lu. 17:22-25, ***Lu. 21:20-29, Dan. 8:13,14 and Rev. 6:12-17 mesh together:

30 AD: Crucifixion. Jerusalem given 40 years of probation (Eze. 4:6,7).

70 AD: Jerusalem taken away--no idol placed in the temple--Daniel not mentioned

***Luke 20-24: "And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people ('that generation,' Mt. 23:36). And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, UNTIL THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES BE FULFILLED."

Note: Under the Greek words in Green's Interlinear, Lu. 21:22 says, "for days of avenging these are, that may be accomplished all things that have been written." ***Lu. 17:25: "But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation."

1967: Jerusalem returned--the times of the Gentiles fulfilled--Jerusalem back in Israel's hands--Six-Day War (Sign of the End of the Age)--Israel given another 40 years of probation (till 2007).

***Lu. 21:28: "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption (the Pre-Trib Rapture) draweth nigh."

2001: Sivan 6, 5761: Feast of Weeks--Tribulation begins

****Dan. 8:13,14: "How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." The 2300 days end Tishri 1, 5768/Sept. 13, 2007.

2004: Mid-Tribulation

*Mt. 24:15,16: "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation (idol), spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:"

**Mk. 13:14: "But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:"

*Mt. 24:17,18: "Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes."

**Mk. 13:15,16: "And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment."

*Mt. 24:19,20: "And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:"

**Mk. 13:17,18: "But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.

*Mt. 24:21,22: "For then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD TO THIS TIME, NO, NOR EVER SHALL BE. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

**Mk. 13:19,20: "For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh whould be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days."

The 1260 days of the last half of the Tribulation are shortened to 1040 (1260 + 1040 = 2300).

*Mt. 24:23,24: "Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall decieve the very elect.

**Mk. 13:21,22: "And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect."

*Mt. 24:25: "Behold, I have told you before."

**Mk 13:23: "But take ye heed: behold, I HAVE FORETOLD YOU ALL THINGS."

***Lu. 17:22: "And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one (the Pre-Trib Rapture) of the days (plural) of the Son of man (the Pre-Trib and the Pre-Wrath Raptures), and ye shall not see it."

Not in Matthew or Mark.

*Mt. 24:26: "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert: go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Not in Mark.

***Lu. 17:23: "And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them."

2007: The 2300th day of the Tribulation

*Mt. 24:27: For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." This is the second of two Days of the Son of Man, the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

Not in Mark.

***Lu. 17:24: "For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day." This is the second Day of Christ, the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

*Mt. 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase (body, i.e., Body of Christ) is (in Heaven, caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture), there will the EAGLES (high flying Tribulation saints) be gathered together" (the Pre-Wrath Rapture).

Not in Mark.

Isa. 40:31: "But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall MOUNT UP WITH WINGS AS EAGLES; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint."

*Mt. 24:29: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days (on the 2300th day) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

**Mk. 13:24,25: "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light. And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken."

***Lu. 21:25,26: "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars (lit., constellations); and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken."

Rev. 6:12,13: "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."

*Mt. 24:30: "And then shall appear THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." This sign seen in the skies is 7 months before the Second Advent (Eze. 39:12).

**Mk. 13:26: "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory."

***Lu. 21:27: "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory."

Rev. 6:14-17: "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the FACE of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

*Mt. 24:31: "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet (the 'last trump," I Cor. 15:52), and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." These are the ones that were taken to Heaven in the Pre-Trib Rapture."

**Mk. 13:27: "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth (the Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of heaven" (those that had been taken to Heaven in the Pre-Trib Rapture).

*Mt. 24:32-34: " Now learn a parable of the fig tree (Israel, Joel 1:6,7; Hos. 9:10, Eze. 36:8; Jer. 24:5); When his branch (klados, scion broken off for grafting, i.e., modern Israel grafted into her old rootstock) is yet tender (apalos, young, no more than 19, as at the Exodus), and putteth forth leaves (Sinai, West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights), ye know that summer is nigh (the Six-Day War started June 5, summer started June 21): So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things (Israel back in the land and growing when 19 years old, and when summer was nigh), know that it (the Rapture is near, even at the doors (there are two Raptures). Verily I say unto you, This generation (born in 1967) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled (1967 + 40 = 2007)."

**Mk. 13:28-30: "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it (the Rapture) is nigh, even at the doors (there are two Raptures). Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done."

***Lu. 21:29-32: "And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees (i.e., surrounding nations); When they now shoot forth (the Six-Day War), ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled."

*Mt. 24:35: "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

**Mk. 13:31: "Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away."

***Lu. 21:33: "Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away."

***Lu. 21:34,35: "And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it (the Tribulation) come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth."

Rev. 3:10: "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation (peirasmos, trial, i.e., the Tribulation), which shall come upon all the world, to try them that swell upon the earth."

***Lu. 21:36: "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS that shall come to pass, and to STAND BEFORE THE SON OF MAN" (at the Rapture).

If we put these passages together, we end up with a clearer picture than we can get from one. The reason the facts are scattered is explained in Isa. 28:13: "But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken."

   Pro and Con 401   Or Return  Home


Contact me for more information at: mjagee@pe.net

send me e-mail now.

8641 Sugar Gum Road, Riverside, CA, 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110


© 1998, 1999, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 10-4-99