Pro and Con 411
I appreciate your insight for the last couple of e-mails. I must share that you have diffidently added another perspective to the "end times" scenario, and I truly appreciate that.
I am not a biblical scholar, and rely solely on the Holy Spirits guidance when studying such things. I must share some concerns I have about your last reply. While I still find your insight of two raptures intriguing, using Numbers 10:2-4 is weak support at best. Moses was given directions for calling the people at that time. I think it is a stretch to suggest this was symbolic of "end times".
In addition, to suggest that because the angels are blowing the trumpets (administering trials and tribulations), this is not from God is also a stretch. Why are the 6th trumpet from God and not the fifth. The angels blew both and both were instructed from God.
I still pray for wisdom and understanding in such things, because God has promised to give such things when asked. I also continue to study for clarification, and understanding, and am confident when Christ comes for his bride, I will be with him.
I would like to stay in touch, since I have found your comments very insightful. Perhaps someday, when we are caught up with Christ and doing God's work in heaven we can discuss our dim view of what we perceived on earth and rejoice that we are with him. God Bless
My reply > Numbers 10:2-4 is weak support at best. Moses was given directions for calling the people
> at that time.I think it is a stretch to suggest this was symbolic of "end times".
I Cor. 10:11,12 says, "Now ALL these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world (ages are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall."
Israel was caused to act out dramatic skits to help us understand end-time prophecy. The whole Bible is Scripture. One section isn't just history to be set aside from the rest. What God chose to record is written for us here at the end of this age. Jesus said, "as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man...But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed." The things coming on us have types in Israel's history.
Job. 8:7-10 says, "Though thy beginning was small, yet thy LATTER END should greatly increase. For ENQUIRE, I pray thee, OF THE FORMER AGE, and PREPARE THYSELF TO THE SEARCH OF THEIR FATHERS: (For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because OUR DAYS UPON EARTH ARE A SHADOW:) SHALL NOT THEY TEACH THEE, AND TELL THEE, AND UTTER WORDS OUT OF THEIR HEART?"
Job 11:6 says, "THE SECRETS OF WISDOM, THAT THEY ARE DOUBLE TO THAT WHICH IS!"
> to suggest that because the angels are blowing the trumpets (administering trials and
> tribulations), this is not from God is also a stretch.
All the seven trumpet judgments are from God. This is the Day of God's Wrath. However, God was very careful to make a difference between the "trump of God" in I Thess. 4:16 and these trumpets sounded by angels so we would not confuse them.
At the first trump, Christ calls his saints "unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the GENERAL ASSEMBLY (tying in to the assembly trumpets of Nu. 10:2-4) and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect."
It seems that what Jesus will tell us first is Rev. 1:8, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning (YHVH king of Israel, Lord of the Old Testament) AND the ending (YHVH of hosts, Lord of the New Testament, Isa. 44:6), saith the Lord, which is (at the Rapture, and which was (at the First Advent), and which is to come (at the Second Advent), THE ALMIGHTY."
At the "last trump," "then shall he send his ANGELS, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (the Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of HEAVEN" (calling those of the Pre-Trib Rapture to the assembly on the Feast of Trumpets) (Mk. 13:27). At this time, ALL saints are gathered to the assembly.
In Rev. 8:1, it is the first day of the Millennial Day of the Lord. In Heaven, Christ has received his golden crown and been given dominion. The Marriage of the Lamb has just taken place. Now while he is being seated as judge at the Judgment Seat of Christ all Heaven and Earth (Hab. 2:20) are silent "about the space of half an hour." He has just removed the seventh seal on the Title Deed of the Earth. He is about to take possession, but he must "judge and avenge our (the martyrs') blood on them that dwell on the earth" (Rev. 6:10). At the same time, he will "give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth" (Rev. 11:18).
The seven angels are given trumpets, which will bring the judgment upon the Earth. Before they start to sound, another angel comes to the altar with a globe-shaped censer. There is given him incense, which represents the prayers of the saints. They were not to take vengeance themselves. The Lord said that vengeance belonged to him. This is the Day of Vengeance.
The "angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth, causing thunder, lightning and an earthquake. It represents the asteroid that will impact Earth.
Only now do the seven angels begin to sound their trumpets to show us what is taking place on Earth. Do you see that the two trumps of God to call his saints to the heavenly assembly take place BEFORE the seven trumpets sound and their judgments hit Earth?
Yesterday, while waiting for Ed to exercise at Cardiac Rehab, I opened my Bible to where the ribbon marked my place. One word jumped at me, "Specially." De. 4:9 says, "take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently." They were to remember what they had seen and teach it to their sons and grandsons, "SPECIALLY the day that thou stoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb (Sinai, from the sanskrit Sani, Saturn), when the LORD said unto me, GATHER ME THE PEOPLE TOGETHER." The gathering reminded me of the assembly trumpet at the Rapture because the first trumpet of the Bible was at Sinai at the season of Pentecost.
Verses 11 and 12 say, "And ye came near and stood UNDER the mountain (as if Sinai was the heavenly Sion and they stood on Earth)...And the LORD SPAKE UNTO YOU out of the midst of the fire: ye HEARD THE VOICE of the words, but saw no similitude; only YE HEARD A VOICE," as when we hear his voice like a trumpet saying, "Come up hither."
Ex. 19:10-17 says, "Go unto the people, and sanctify them TO DAY AND TO MORROW, and let them wash their clothes, And BE READY against the third day: for THE THIRD DAY THE LORD WILL COME DOWN...when the TRUMPET soundeth long, THEY SHALL COME UP TO THE MOUNT....And it came to pass ON THE THIRD DAY in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and THE VOICE OF THE TRUMPET EXCEEDING LOUD; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled. And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God."
I think that when the "door" opens in heaven, and we hear Christ saying, "Come up hither" with a great voice "as it were of A TRUMPET TALKING" (Rev. 4:1), we will rise to meet him in the air and then be teleported to Heaven as quickly as Philip was taken from the eunuch, as quickly as when the ship was immediately at the other side of the Sea of Galilee (circle, symbol of the heavenly sphere) (Jn. 6:21).
Acts 8:39 says, "And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord CAUGHT AWAY (HARPAZO, to take up with force, the same word that is translated "caught up" in I Thess. 4:17, i.e., the same as at the Rapture) Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more." That sounds like no physical body is left behind.
This HARPAZO, catching away, Rapture, is as when Philip was caught away, as when Paul was "caught up TO THE THIRD HEAVEN," "caught up INTO PARADISE" (2 Cor. 12:2,4), and when the man child (representing Moses and Elijah) is "caught up UNTO GOD" in Rev. 12:5.
Keep in touch. Next year in New Jerusalem
Incoming Email I was reading your Website. It is so informative. I think we are all disappointed that September was not the Rapture but if we are looking for the year 6000, we must wait 1 year almost 3/4 months. The 7th Millennium begins fall of 2002 AD (6001 AM). In the Gregorian calendar there were several changes that accumulated 1 year 3/4 years to the good. We always use the fall month of Tishri, of course, to begin the Hebrew civil year.
Another forgotten time is the AM (Anno Mundy) year. The Hebrew calendar is off 242 years from this. The AM calendar was used by the Hebrews until 135 AD at the time of Bar Kochbar when they say that they took off 240 years off. In calculating and coordinating the calendars, I find it to be 242 years instead. This year should be 5998 AM (1999 AD) Hebrew current year 5760. Next Tishri 5999 AM (a2000 AD) and the next 6000 AM (2001 AD) 5762 Hebrew year. (5762 + 240 = 6002 - 242 = 6000)
The Romans changed the beginning of the year from September to March, and the Calendar year which preceded this change was therefore but 6 months long, i.e., the then current A.M. year had run from September to March, when the New Era began as 1st year of Rome. In 1752 AD the English Parliament changed the beginning from March to January the year of change was but 9 months long, i.e., the current year (1753 AD) had run from March to January (9 months) when the new era began to count as 1753 AD.
Thus the Romans got ahead of AM time, in so far as their enumeration of its years are concerned, by 6 months, and Parliament by 3 months more, making a total of 9 months.
But there was a graver error introduced into the count by the Abbot Dionysius Exiguus who first instituted the system of dating the Calendar of Time from what he supposed to be the birth of the Savior. This was done in 527 O.S., 4525-6 A.M., and in the system thence resulting we call 4000 A.M.(instead of 4001) our AD 1, thus putting ourselves a whole year more before true time. The sum total of these three "changes of the times and seasons" places our count, in round year numbers, 1 3/4 years ahead of the true count.
Anti-deluvian calendar was a 15-year cycle (years and weeks of years). 1722 AM began 15-year cycle using months and beginning always at Rosh Hashanah in the fall. Exodus began Sacred month of Nisan as the first month with Tishri as the first civil month. Intercalary periods (adjustment months to regulate solar and lunar calendar) and 15-year cycle to 19-year cycle have been changed from before Rosh Hashanah to before Passover. Hence to correct this error we must always deduct 1 3/4 years from any AD date.
Thus the Autumnal Equinox of September 22, 2001 would equal Tishri 1, 6000 AM. Currently October 1999 is 5998 AM. Hebrew Year 5760 - 2 = 5758 + 240 = 6000 making a 242 error. We are close to Y2K but not to 7th Millennium by 2 3/4 years almost. Would this ease your mind about the failed prediction of the Rapture?
My reply > looking for the year 6000, we must wait 1 year almost 3/4 months.
I think the 6000th year was 5758 (1997/1998). It was well marked by the Modern Parallels. The year 5278 + 480 = 5758. See http://www.pe.net/~mjagee/parallels.html
> Another forgotten time is the AM (Anno Mundy) year. The Hebrew
> calendar is off 242 years from this.
I think it is off by more than that. I figure that it was 283 BJE (before Jewish Era) when Adam was created. He was tested 40 years, as the Second Adam was tested 40 days. The 6000 years of man's test being mortal and knowing both good and bad started when Adam was cast out of Eden. The year 5758 + 283 -1 (no zero year) - 40 = 6000.
If you just stick with AH (year of man) years starting with the creation of Adam, then correlate them with the Jewish Calendar, you don't have to worry about all the changes in other calendars.
> Would this ease your mind about the failed prediction of the Rapture?
I don't need to ease my mind. I did not predict anything. I am not a prophet, just one who studies the Bible. I am not casting around trying to find something that justifies me. I am a human being and can be wrong. I only want to know what the Bible really means. Why waste time on anything else? I just expected that the 5758/6000th year would be the Rapture. It was not. That did not change the fact that it was marked for some reason. It may be the start of a three-year period similar to the three days at Sinai in Ex. 19:10-13. It says, "sanctify them TO DAY AND TO MORROW, AND LET THEM WASH THEIR CLOTHES, and BE READY against the THIRD DAY: for the THIRD DAY the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai (from the sanskrit Sani, Saturn)....when the TRUMPET soundeth long, they shall COME UP to the mount."
These three days seem to agree with the three years of the parable of the barren fig tree in Lu. 13:6-9. Jesus only comes looking the first two years. In the third year, he speaks. He neither comes nor speaks in the extra year before the Tribulation starts to cut down the barren fig tree.
I am hoping the Rapture will be Pentecost, 2000. We must wash our robes in the blood of Christ (Rev. 7:14), i.e., confess all known sins committed since we accepted Christ (I Jn. 1:9) and stay ready in case Jesus should come sooner, maybe on Ascension Day. We do not want to be caught asleep and not ready when the Bridegroom comes for his Bride, whenever it is.
Incoming Email FWD: Weekend News Today, By Andra Brack, Source: ArabicNews
Sun Oct 17,1999 -- Well-informed sources in occupied Jerusalem expected on Friday that Palestinian President Yasser Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak may meet in November in Oslo on the occasion of convening the Middle East summit which is organized by Norway. A Palestinian official who asked not to be identified stressed that Arafat had received an invitation and he accepted it, as recently stated by the Norwegian Foreign Ministry. Meanwhile, the spokesman for Barak, Meirav Tzadouk, said the Israeli prime minister also received the invitation, but he has not yet announced his decision, adding that Barak is expected to agree to the invitation. The Norwegian Foreign Ministry announced that besides Arafat and Barak, invitations were also extended to take part in the summit to US President Bill Clinton, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, King Abdullah of Jordan and the current President of the European Union, Finnish President Martti Ahtisaari. This comes as a summit meeting for Arafat and Barak with US President Bill Clinton will be held, which will be convened on the margin of the summit meetings of the European security and cooperation organization that will be held in Istanbul on November 17.
My reply Things are clicking right into place. Thanks loads for sending me the news as things develop. I don't go out on the Internet much to find things myself. Somehow, what I need to know, comes to me. The Lord bless you.
Incoming Email Re: I bet you will like this web site
Biblical Astronomy, October 1999, Ed.: Robert Scott Wadsworth, firstname.lastname@example.org
JUPITER AT GREATEST BRILLIANCY IN TWELVE YEARS
On October 23, Jupiter will be at its greatest brilliancy for the last 12 years. During its 12-year course around the sun, Jupiter lies at its closest point to the sun when it is also at its closest point to the earth only once. This year, when Jupiter is at opposition, is the one time that this occurs. Jupiter will be shinning at a magnitude -2.9 on that evening.... It was on October 23, last year, that Saturn was at its greatest brilliancy for the previous 20 years, when it was in opposition. The time of opposition for Saturn last year was 2:34 p.m. Eastern Daylight Savings Time, at the time when the Wye Agreement was reached between then Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu and Yasser Arafat (see the November 1998 issue of Biblical Astronomy for all of the details). The time for Jupiter's opposition this year on October 23 is 2:54 p.m. Eastern Daylight Savings Time, just 20 minutes difference from the time that Saturn reached opposition in 1998.
***From Marilyn: Thanks. How interesting, 1998 marked by Saturn's opposition (opposite the Sun), 1999 marked by Jupiter's, on a date that would call it to our attention, Oct. 23.
But this is just the tip of the ol' iceberg.
Charts 117 and 118 show the positions of Jupiter and Saturn when they were in opposition in 1999 and 1998. Chart 118 shows the position of Saturn during its opposition on October 23, 1998. Note that it is in the band of Pisces (the nation of Israel), and just above the area where the foot of the Lamb (Aries) is breaking or loosing the band. This band is connected to Cetus (the beast from the sea). The following is from E.W. Bullinger's The Witness of the Stars (1893), pp. 100, 101 concerning the Band. "Its ancient Egyptian name was U-or, which means He Cometh. Its Arabic name is Al Risha, the band, or bridle. It speaks of the Coming One, not in His relation to Himself, or to His enemies, but in His relation to the Redeemed....
***I could be wrong, but I have an idea that the two fish represent the wise and foolish virgins. At the time of the first Rapture, the wise virgin Bride goes up, the foolish virgins go back to Aquarius for more water (symbol of the Holy Spirit). It is the same story as the foolish virgins going for more oil (also a symbol of the Holy Spirit). The lamb (Christ) is not holding back those going up, but is holding back those going for more water. The fish going up is smaller than the fish going for more water. This fits, for at the second Rapture, it is "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations" (Rev. 7:9). The fact that both fish are tied together by a band held by the lamb fits too, for both are the Body of Christ. I don't think the lamb is breaking the band, just holding on to it with one foot. The other foot is folded under the lamb.
...Chart 117 shows the position of Jupiter on October 23, 1999 at the time of its opposition. The Hebrew name for Jupiter is Tzedeq, which means Righteousness. It is also the same Hebrew word used in Melchizedek (Genesis 14:18), or as it is spelled Melchisedec in Hebrews 5:6. Throughout history, Jupiter has always been refereed to as the "king" planet and this from this we get the King of Righteousness. But a better translation that makes a bit more sense comes from Jeremiah 23:5,6 and 33:15,16 which give the name "the Lord our Righteousness." Also, in Hebrew thought, Jupiter was always associated to the Messiah.
Getting back to Chart 117, Jupiter is also positioned in the band of Pisces, and very close to the same position that Saturn was a year earlier....
***Saturn in the band at a special time in 1998. That ties Saturn to the fish, doesn't it?
THE SIGN OF REVELATION 12:1 WILL BE SEEN ON OCTOBER 11
On October 11, Bethulah (Virgo) will be clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet. Chart 119 shows the Galactic View of the heavens, which would be as if you were standing on a plane parallel to the Galactic plane. The time set is 5 minutes after sunset Jerusalem Local Time. The sun is near the midst of the woman, and the moon in under her feet. This picture of Virgo is not the best, with wings and other non-attributes, but adequately displays the moon in relationship to the feet.
Chart 120 shows the heavens as seen from Jerusalem at 5 minutes after sunset on October 11. The horizontal gray line above the sun is the horizon. The moon at this time is 15 degrees above the horizon and 4 percent illuminated. This is most likely the beginning of Heshvan 2 on the Sacred Calendar. The moon will be 1 percent illuminated and 9 degrees above the horizon on the previous evening at 5 minutes after sunset....
The figure of speech used in Revelation 12:2 of a woman travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered is also seen in other scriptures such as Jeremiah 30:6-7 and I Thessalonians 5:34, which directly relate to the time of "Jacob's Trouble." The sign in the heavens that relates to this is the woman clothed with the sun and the moon beneath her feet (Rev. 12:1). This occurs about every two to three years, though it can occur two years in a row. Such is the case for October 21, 1998 and October 11, 1999. It does not mean that every time that this sign is seen in the heavens that it is the time of "Jacob's Trouble," but when the time of "Jacob's Trouble" occurs, this sign will most likely be seen....
***I wonder about the Day of Jacob's Trouble, which I think is Tishri 1, Sept. 13, 2007.
NEWLY DISCOVERED COMET C/1999 S4 (LINEAR) MAY BECOME NAKED EYE OBJECT
The following is from the Comet Observation Home Page:
"IAU Circular 7267 (Oct. 1, 1999) reports the discovery of a comet by LINEAR. This comet, which is currently 16th magnitude, has the potential of becoming a naked-eye comet, according to the preliminary orbit given on the same circular. Based on the orbit, the comet will reach a perihelion distance of 0.72 AU on July 18, 2000. The Northern Hemisphere is favored during most of the apparition. The comet may be picked up visually by the end of the year. As it slowly brightens, the comet will move into solar conjunction in March 2000. It will emerge in the morning sky at the end of May as perhaps a 9th magnitude object. The comet will brighten rapidly as it moves northward.
***Wow! how about it being visible on Pentecost, June 10, 2000?
In mid-July 2000, the comet will be at a high Northern declination (~+57 deg. Max.). The comet will move under the pole from the morning sky into the evening sky. At peak brightness, the comet might be magnitude 3.5Š This value is extremely uncertain. The comet will then rapidly dive to the south in the evening sky and will fade. There will be a period in late July and August 2000 when the comet is visible from both hemispheres. During this same period the comet will become a binocular object. In September the comet will slip into conjunction with the sun. When the comet emerges in November 2000, it will be a faint telescopic comet for Southern Hemisphere observers."...
ORIONID METEOR SHOWER
The yearly Orionid Meteor Shower will peak around October 22, though it will most likely not be a great display. The "Hunter's Moon" on October 24 affects the viewing of this year's Meteor shower....Any connection to the position of Jupiter on October 23/24?
EARTHQUAKES IN DIVERS PLACES...
The following is a list of earthquakes that have occurred since the writing of the September issue of Biblical Astronomy.
September 20 - 7.6 in Taiwan
September 21 - 6.8 in Taiwan (two - 3 hours apart)
- 4.2 in San Francisco
September 24 - 5.1 in China
September 25 - 6.8 in Taiwan
September 30 - 7.5 in Mexico
October 4 - 5.5 in Peru
October 5 - 5.2 in Turkey
- 5.1 in Chile
October 6 - 5.0 in Assam
***Plus Oct. 16 - 7.1 in California
...What is highly unusual is to have as many earthquakes registering 6.5 or above occurring in a little over a six week period....They have been steadily on the increase over the past few years, but this has been the greatest flux in recent times....
Incoming Email He is at the gate and we have got to make a choice what we are to do. I love your info and studies. I will study your viewpoints as they point to the real Christ and his truth. That is all I'm searching for, period. Butif I do have questions I hope you are open to discussion. If not then, I have a real problem. You are another real intellectional biblical person.
I hope not as I am not one of those. I'm just a studier and prayer person of Jesus Christ. Enough said, more from you.
My reply Discussion, questions, answers, I don't knows, what do you think, whatever, are what the Pro and Cons are all about. Of course I am open to discussion. No problem. I learn right along with others. I love discussion in agape love. No one person knows it all. We each have certain areas in which the Lord gives insight. When we put them together, all profit thereby.
I am just an ordinary person, 70 years old, that has studied the Bible as hard as she can go ever since before 1960. I want to understand it all, but that surely is impossible. There is more packed into that one small book than we can dig out in one lifetime. That is why it never loses its hold on us. There is always another piece of the puzzle to hunt for. Agape
Pro and Con 412 Or Return
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