Pro and Con 422

Uploaded 11-12-99

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Re: more signs in the heavens: From NASA:

November 5, 1999: The Earth is headed for a close encounter with the orbit of a newly discovered comet. Found by the Lincoln Near-Earth Asteroid Research (LINEAR) team on May 12th, Comet LINEAR (C/1999 J3) brightened to 9th magnitude as it made its closest approach to the Sun in September. On November 11, 1999 at 1941 UT, Earth will arrive at a point in space just 0.0115 AU from the orbit of the comet, 40 days after the comet itself was in the area. If there is a residual swarm of dusty debris left over from the comet's passage, we could be in for an unexpected meteor outburst -- the first known apparition of the 'Linearids.'

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My number one pick for the rapture is still Late spring in 2000, possible Late May, early June.I have just started reading Josephus huge book, and what I have read so far is hard for me to believe that one man put all this together.

My reply

I sure agree with you on both counts. I haven't gotten through all of Josephus yet. I have read the parts I am most interested in though. I wish he had put in more dates.

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when do you think the rapture is going to happen? pentecost 2000? pastor John Hagee says it might happen at the feast of trumpets because trumpets are blown by the angel Gabriel at the rapture. SINCERELY

My reply

My best guess is Pentecost, 2000.

> trumpets are blown by the angel Gabriel at the rapture

I Thess. 4:16 says, "the trump of God." There also is "the voice of the archangel" (Michael, Jude 9).

I think Song of Solomon has to do with the two Raptures, both Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath. Song 6:13 says, "What will ye see in the Shulamite (meaning peaceable, perfect)? As it were the company of TWO ARMIES."

In Song 2:10-14, the Bride is told to "Rise up...and come away...the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; The flowers appear on the earth...The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise...and come away."

The winter is past, so it is spring. The latter rain is over, so it is past Nisan. There are green figs and firstripe grapes at the end of May or early June. That fits Pentecost.

Jesus ascended and returned on Firstfruits, then ascended 40 days later. He is the Head of the Body of Christ. Just as the image in Nebuchadnezzar's dream represented the course of the world empires from the head of gold to the feet, the Body of Christ represents all the saints of the kingdom of Heaven from the Head to the feet. Christ is the head. The breast and arms represent the OT saints. The thighs and legs represent the NT saints that have died. We are now down to the feet. The first foot born into the new world is at the Pre-Trib Rapture. The second foot is at the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

Since the Head went to the new world at Firstfruits, it makes sense that the first foot would be born into the new world at the first trump, at the next feast--Pentecost. Then the last foot would be born into the new world at the last trump, at the following feast--Trumpets.

Atonement and Tabernacles seem to have to do with the Israeli remnant that will live on into the millennial Day of the Lord on Earth.

"The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the WEDDING: and they (Israel) would not come (at Sinai). Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden...come unto the marriage (30 AD). But they made light of it...when the king heard thereof, he was WROTH (Lu. 21:22)...and burned up their city (70 AD, Lu. 21:24)...Go ye therefore into the highways, and...bid to the marriage. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered (Pre-Trib Rapture) together all as many as they found, both bad (foolish virgins) and good (wise virgins): and the wedding was furnished with guests. And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man (Laodicean) which had not on a wedding garment (Rev. 3:18)...cast him into outer darkness (outside of the door darkness, i.e., it is night); there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH. For many are called, but few are CHOSEN" (Mt. 22:1-14). They "that are with HIM are called, and CHOSEN, and faithful" (Rev. 17:14).

Lu. 12:46 says of the unwise servant, "cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and...appoint him his portion (2300-days of the Tribulation) with the UNBELIEVERS." Mt. 24:51 adds, "cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH." From Mt. 22:14, we know that "many are called, but few are CHOSEN." The chosen stay inside Heaven's "OPEN DOOR" (Rev. 3:8; 4:1). The foolish servants are cast outside Heaven's door until after they "have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Rev. 7:14).

On the Feast of Trumpets that begins the millennial Day of the Lord, He "shall send his angels with a great sound of a TRUMPET, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of HEAVEN to the other" (Mt. 24:31). These are the CHOSEN that were caught up to Heaven in the first Rapture.

"And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect (the Tribulation saints) from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (the living ones) to the uttermost part of heaven" (those that have died) (Mk. 13:27).

This is the Feast of Trumpets that begins the Millennium. This is when "shall appear the SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN IN HEAVEN" (Mt. 24:30). When "the heaven (lit., heavens, atmospheric) departed as a scroll" (Rev. 6:14), "the great day of his wrath is come" (Rev. 6:17). The Tribulation saints are caught up before the seven trumpet judgments are cast on Earth (Rev. 7:14; 8:2).

Joel 2:1,2 says, "BLOW ye the TRUMPET in Zion, and sound an alarm...for the day of the LORD cometh...A day of...thick darkness." Mal. 2:3 says, "your solemn FEASTS, and one will take you away with it." It is the Feast of Trumpets.

Since the Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place on the Feast of Trumpets, I think it is more reasonable to think that the Pre-Trib Rapture will take place on Pentecost. We are wheat and the beginning of wheat harvest in on Pentecost.

"And when ye reap the harvest of your land (on Pentecost), thou shalt NOT make clean riddance of the corners of thy field" (Lev. 23:22).

"Ye shall bring out of your HABITATIONS two wave loaves" (Lev. 23:17). Those two loaves suggest the two fulfillments of Pentecost. The Spirit of Christ came on Pentecost in 30 AD to fill believers. I think he will come on Pentecost, 2000, to pick up filled believers. They are the wise virgins with enough oil to keep their lamps burning brightly so the Lord will see them on his quick trip and know immediately where they are.

He told all but two of the churches in Rev. 2 and 3 to repent. We had better take it to heart and use I John 1:9 so we will be filled with the oil of the Holy Spirit and ready for he comes quickly.

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Subject: Re: Catholicism
I read...P&Cs involving catholic doctrine, and I recall that you have addressed similar questions on previous P&Cs...I wonder if you could possibly put a link on the homepage regarding "dialogue with catholics"? It would be most helpful...I know we have the Great Commission to spread the gospel, but it is difficult to do so when people are so easily offended and think you have the market on truth.

And this does not just apply to catholicism... In a religious discussion with..., he thinks I am wrong to say that Jehovah's Witness, Mormonism, Hinduism, Buddism, and possibly Catholicism, etc., are false religions. He says that "only God can 'judge' them." I say I am not judging any "person", just the doctrine. Are we not told to discern between true and false doctrine? Are we not told to know the difference? -- and most importantly -- Are we not told to USE THE BIBLE AS THE GUIDE FOR WHAT IS TRUTH?

...My heart aches in worry over this. I am at my wits end in knowing how to deal with this.... when it comes to "judging" versus "discerning", and TOLERANCE!...HELP! Any advice is appreciated! In Christ

Hi: Sorry not to have answered sooner. I took this out of my Inbox to protect it when I tried to use my faulty disk drive (it didn't work) and just now found it again. I don't know how to come up with the link you would like.

Acts 4:12 is the answer to other religions. It says, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." No other religion has a Saviour that died and was resurrected, either. In the past, Israel was judged for mixing with Canaanite religion. In the Tribulation, the World Church will also be judged for mixing with non-Christian religions.

The message to Thyatira (meaning I bruise, or disturb) is to the Catholics. As the Nicolaitan separation of priesthood and laity increased, Jesus said to Pergamos, "So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. Repent; or else..." This becomes full blown in the Tribulation, with the Pope, the Pontifex Maximus, as the Beast, heading up both world religion and world government. Rev. 13:4 says, "and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him." I think he is elected head over world government to try to bring peace to this tortured world. Verse 8 says, "all that dwell upon the earth shall WORSHIP him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

This is from P & C 419: "Monument symbolising lasting peace in the world blessed by the pope. A huge monument symbolising lasting peace in the world was blessed by Pope John Paul II, before it was shipped to Bethlehem...The new millennium monument will be shipped to Bethlehem in time for the birth of Christ, on December 25. The sculpture, known as "2000 and Beyond" is six metres high, weighs several tons and is made of chains. The iron chains symbolise ALL THE RELIGIONS IN THE WORLD, with ONE COMMON AIM, THAT IS PEACE."

The Pope has just recently spoken to a group representing about 20 different religions, including American Indian. He is trying to bring them all together. The Lutherans and Catholics have agreed on a statement on being saved by faith. An amalgamation of all religions (not just denominations) is in the works. Islam is included.

In Rev. 2:21:22, we hear Jesus saying, "I gave her space to repent of her fornication (joining together); and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery (joining with another, i.e., the Satan-possessed False Prophet) with her into GREAT TRIBULATION." By the last half of the Tribulation, their sins are so great that in v. 23, Jesus says, "I will kill her children with death." For those, the situation is so wicked that there are those which have "known THE DEPTHS OF SATAN, AS THEY SPEAK" (v. 24). By this time, Jesus warns those that have not "known THE DEPTHS OF SATAN, AS THEY SPEAK", "that which ye have already hold fast till I come" (Rev. 2:25). Before the fire falls, Jesus tells his own,"COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, THAT YE BE NOT PARTAKERS OF HER SINS, AND THAT YE RECEIVE NOT OF HER PLAGUES. FOR HER SINS HAVE REACHED UNTO HEAVEN" (Rev. 18:4,5).

Of the upcoming Feast of Trumpets that begins the millennial Day of the Lord, Hos. 9:5-7 says, "What will ye do in the solemn day, and in the day of the feast of the LORD? For, lo, they are gone because of destruction...the days of recompence are come: Israel shall know it: the PROPHET IS A FOOL, THE SPIRITUAL MAN (i.e., the Tribulation Pope) is mad, for the multitude of thine iniquity, and the great hatred."

Isa. 9:15 says, "The ancient and honourable (i.e., the Beast, the Tribulation Pope), he is the head (of the great red dragon); and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail" (i.e., Satan possessed).

Todays Press-Enterprise, 11-8-99, Riverside, CA, p. A-2, says, "John Paul II celebrates Mass in New Delhi and then meets with leaders of OTHER RELIGIONS...describing it as a further sign that Roman Catholics seek dialogue with other faiths." The Pope said, "my hope and dream that the next century will be a time for fruitful dialogue leading to a new relationship of understanding and solidarity and the TOLERANCE OF ALL RELIGIONS." Present were a Jain priest, a Parsi priest, a Sikh representative, and sitting beside the Pope was a bare-chested Hindu priest.

During the Tribulation, "they worshipped the dragon (Satan) which gave power unto the beast," and the False Prophet, because indwelt by Satan, "spake as a dragon." Bad times are ahead under the leadership of the Beast and False Prophet. Now is the time to obey Jesus. He said, "pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man" (Lu. 21:36).

In 66 AD, Cestius came against Jerusalem, but unaccountably withdrew. We surmise that it was God's doing, for it gave the Christians a chance to flee and so escape those days of vengeance that came in 70 AD. Cestius' withdrawal was four years before the destruction of both Jerusalem and the temple. If the Rapture comes in 2000 AD, it will be four years before the reign of the False Prophet, who will attempt to kill all that will not worship his image. It might be a good time to "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4).

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I was reading your literature and it refers to some Christians escaping the great tribulation. The controversy for me is the fact that so many Christians in our third world countries are dieing and being persecuted for Christ in great numbers as we speak.  So what are they really escaping?

It's North America who still has not lost All of is religious freedoms but is well on it's way. The only possibility is that even greater destruction is to come upon the earth? I feel that if I lived in Sudan right now I wouldn't feel I was escaping much.

Does this make sense? Thanks

My reply

Yes and no. Maybe you do not fully understand what is coming.

The shortened Tribulation is split into 1260 days (Rev. 11:3) and 1040 days. The whole period lasts 2300 days (Dan. 8:14). The last 1040 days will be worse than anything since the beginning of the world, "For then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, such as WAS NOT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD (kosmos, this order of things) TO THIS TIME, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should NO FLESH BE SAVED" (Mt. 24:21,22). If God did not entervene and shorten the time, Earth would become uninhabited by man and animals.

What is coming upon the Earth on the Day of God's Wrath is "a time of trouble, such as NEVER was since there was a NATION even to that same time" (Dan. 12:1).

Two large pieces of "the curse" (Zech. 5:2,3) break apart from what is probably a binary asteroid (Rev. 8:8,10) and impact Earth, turning it upside down. Can you imagine what the oceans and lakes will do besides the fire, impact blast, poison water, worldwide earthquake, etc.? The army attacking Israel (Eze. 38) will be stopped in their tracks. Babylon will be no more (Jer. 50:13). Egypt will be hurt so badly that no one will live there for the next 40 years (Eze. 29:11).

(1) This type of thing happened as soon as Lot left Sodom. That asteroid cracked the Earth for over 5000 miles. The Great Rift Valley extends from Turkey to Lake Nyasa in Africa.

(2) This also happened on Joshua's Long Day. It is a type of Jesus' Long Day. More died with the hail of rocks than Israel killed.

Jos. 10:11: "the LORD cast down great STONES FROM HEAVEN...and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword."

(3) The asteroid coming in this time is called the Sword of the Lord. Eze. 21:14 says, "let the sword be DOUBLED THE THIRD TIME, the sword of the slain." This will be twice as bad as the impact that split the Earth for 5000 miles.

Rev. 8:8: "a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea (the Mediterranean)."

Zeph. 2:4,5: "Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast."

Eze. 38:18-20: "when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face....Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that THE FISHES OF THE SEA, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (paneh, face, i.e., the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30), and the MOUNTAINS (asteroids) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground."

Rev. 8:10: "And there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp." This is the "stone like a great millstone" that annihilates Babylon on the Euphrates.

Isa. 22:17,18: "the Lord...will surely violently turn and TOSS THEE (the asteroid that Satan lives on) LIKE A BALL into a large country (Iraq)."

Rev. 9:1,2: "I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit, and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."

Isa. 10:19: "And the rest of the trees (men) of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them."

Isa. 24:1: "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it UPSIDE DOWN."

Rev. 16:19,20: "And the great city (Jerusalem) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found."

Civilization as we know it will be wiped out.

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----, MD wrote: Marilyn: I had the most wonderful talk today with a patient who had a rapturous near death experience. He went up the "tunnel of light," felt all his cares lifted from him, heard indescribably beautiful music, almost touched a wonderful Being, and then of course, returned here. This scenario seems to be common to most near death experiences.

Do you think the rapture will be anything like the frequently reported "trip through the tunnel of light" to a wonderful Being?

My reply

I don't know, but this tunnel seems to be mentioned often in these experiences. Many talk about the light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe that applies to absent from the body and present with the Lord.

I have personally talked with three who died and were revived. The first was a local realtor who came in to our Spring Crest Drapery and told me he died on the table and was revived. I don't remember other details on this one.

Another was our Tuftex carpet rep. After being revived and home again, he went out into the back yard. A voice asked him, "Do you want to go, or stay?" He said it was like a business card was flipped in a hand one way on "go" and the other way on "stay." It happened over and over until he decided to "stay." He had another heart attack right then and did survive it. Afterward, he told everyone about the experience that changed his life. He is certain that Christ is our Saviour and the Bible true. He wants his experience to help others come to accept Christ.

Another man drove quite a long way so he and his wife could visit me in our home in Yorba Linda. He arrived, Bible in hand and had read my first book. He was a gold prospector become painter. He had two heart attacks at two different times. Both times, he died and was revived at the hospital. Both times, he went to hell. He said, "You have no idea how terrible it is to be in total darkness without God." That is all he said about hell. He never wanted to go back.

He was totally wrapped up in studying the Bible, had read it all except Judges. He had accepted Christ and talked about him to all that would listen, did his best with those that wouldn't, and kept his Bible handy in his truck. His experiences changed his life totally. He claimed that he was now able to know some things intuitively that he was not able to know before.

He stayed until it was late, doing most of the talking. Maybe he needed to tell someone that would understand what he was saying. He really appreciated my book. It had helped him understand a lot of things. He seemed to feel driven to contact me and tell me his unusual experiences.

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Thanks again for all your positive input. I feel that through your website and escpecially your P&C's you are reaching and teaching so much too so many. Here is a little story I thought you would perhaps like to share.

About ten years ago, a young and very successful executive named Josh was traveling down a Chicago neighborhood street. He was going a bit too fast in his sleek, black, 12 cylinder Jaguar XKE, which was only two months old. He was watching for kids darting out from between parked cars and slowed down when he thought he saw something. As his car passed, no child darted out, but a brick sailed out and-WHUMP! -- it smashed into the Jag's shiny black side door!

SCREECH...!!!! Brakes slammed! Gears ground into reverse, and tires madly spun the Jaguar back to the spot from where the brick had been thrown. Josh jumped out of the car, grabbed the kid and pushed him up against a parked car. He shouted at the kid, "What was that all about and who are you? Just what the heck are you doing?!" Building up a head of steam, he went on."That's my new Jag, that brick you threw is gonna cost you a lot of money. Why did you throw it?"

"Please, mister, please...I'm sorry! I didn't know what else to do!" pleaded the youngster. "I threw the brick because no one else would stop!"

Tears were dripping down the boy's chin as he pointed around the parked car. "It's my brother, mister," he said. "He rolled off the curb and fell out of his wheelchair and I can't lift him up." Sobbing, the boy asked the executive, "Would you please help me get him back into his wheelchair? He's hurt and he's too heavy for me."Moved beyond words, the young executive tried desperately to swallow the rapidly swelling lump in his throat. Straining, he lifted the young man back into the wheelchair and took out his handkerchief and wiped the scrapes and cuts, checking to see that everything was going to be OK. He then watched the younger brother push him down the sidewalk toward their home. It was a long walk back to the sleek, black, shining, 12 cylinder Jaguar XKE, a long and slow walk. Josh never did fix the side door of his Jaguar. He kept the dent to remind him not to go through life so fast that someone has to throw a brick at him to get his attention... Some bricks are softer than others. Let's not wait for a brick to wake us up to the needs of others.

Much Love to you all

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Re: Amazed: Tim Gould, asitimgould@airmail.net, wrote:
I am simply amazed at the science that is being used here.

Who is the chump that thinks he can predict the coming of Jesus? Are you all so foolish that you don't understand the words of Jesus when he said "only my Father knows the time?"

Why not use all this passion for winning souls and stop wasting time trying to second-guess God. Do you really think you can figure out HIM???

My reply

Who? Marilyn Agee. Predict? no. I am not a prophet. I am obeying II Tim. 2:15. It says, "Study to shew thyself APPROVED unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the world of truth." Jesus warned the churches, "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." What can we know if we do watch?

Of Mt. 24:35,36, the KJV says, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

When Jesus said this, the Jewish month and day of the month of the Second Advent was already in Scripture. Eze. 29:17 sets the day as Nisan 1. Verse 21 says, "In that day will I cause the horn (king) of the house of Israel to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD."

Jesus said, "But take he heed: behold, I have foretold you ALL things." All the clues we need are there. We just have to study to show ourselves APPROVED unto God" and "pray always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

Lu. 8:17 says, "Nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest: neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad."

I do all I can to bring people to Christ. I also do all I can to get believers to repent and get ready, for the coming of Christ is near. Out of the seven church groups in Rev. 2 and 3, all but two are warned by Jesus to repent. It is important.

Are you ready? If not, use I John 1:9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Then be like the Bereans, search the Scriptures daily, to see if these things are so. If you don't search, you won't find.

Are you missing "the grace that should come unto YOU: SEARCHING what...MANNER OF TIME"? I Peter 1:10-12 says, "Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto YOU: SEARCHING what, or WHAT MANNER OF TIME the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but UNTO US they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you." Agape

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© 1998, 1999, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 11-12-99