Pro and Con 424

Uploaded 11-14-99

Note: Dr. Tabor says, "Prof. Flint...has just published (with Martin Abegg and Eugene Ulrich) the first complete English translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls Bible (HarperSanFrancisco)...Amazon.com is listing it for only $14.40 in paperback and I am sure McKinney of www.centuryone.com will include it as well on his Web site."

Incoming Email

I want to thank you for your website and your Pros and Cons. I have been reading your site for the past two years and thoroughly enjoy each time I visit. Every time I read I am somehow refreshed and envigorated by it. I do have some issues that I would like to have resolved with your help. Let me start by saying that I was brought up in a Hindu home and as such I have been taught to beleive that there is only one true God, and this God can take many differnt forms. As long as you beleive and have faith in him/her, and you do not directly or indirectly cause harm to another, you will remain in fellowship. I have studied Hinduism, Buddhism, and Christianity, and the fundamental basis of all these faiths, in my humble view, is the golden rule, is peace and harmony. I do believe in Jesus and the biblical scripture, however, perhaps due to my upbringing, I also believe in some of the Hindu scriptures. I am having a hard time reconciling the Christian commandment to "have no other God by me". This is a personal issue that I am having.

The other issue of my letter deals with people whom I have described as "the innocents". In my mind, these are people who have never had the opportunity to have Christianity come into their lives. These are people who live in remote isolated location where Christian teachings have not penetrated and/or who have to struggle every day just to keep food in their bellies just to stay alive and who thank their god every day for what little they have.I think of people of peace, in the past and present, such as Hindu and Buddhist monks, who have cast off material aspects of their lives in order to become closer to God. I often wonder what will happen to these souls at either Rapture or on the Day of Gods Wrath. I feel great sorrow for these people when I think that they must be sent to hell because they are not Christian. I pray that God will have mercy on these individuals and allow them to be counted among his Kingdom.

I realize that you are a very busy person and receive countless emails every day, so if you don't respond to my personal issue I will understand, however, a response to my question relating to the innocents would be greatly appreciated. Thank You

My reply

I am glad you enjoy my Web site.

There is only one religion that has a Saviour that never sinned, healed all manner of diseases, cast out demons, died in our stead to take the punishment due us because of our sins, was resurrected after 3 days, seen afterward by more than 500 and was seen ascending to Heaven 40 days after the resurrection. That religion is Christianity. "Neither is there salvation an any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

In I Cor. 15:1-8, Paul presented "the gospel...By which also ye are saved...Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures...that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once...After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me also."

> I have been taught to beleive that there is only one true God, and this God can
> take many differnt forms.

You are right that there is only one true God. In the Old Testament, he is called "YHVH," which may be pronounced Yahweh. De. 6:4 says, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD (YHVH) our God (Elohim, plural) is one (echad, united) LORD (YHVH)."

In Mt. 28:28,29, Jesus said, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name (singular, one name) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is the name of the one true God, affirming that God is one united LORD. There is equality and oneness of essence, or real nature.

There are not three God's, as when some say that there is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Instead, there is one God, manifested, or shown to us, in three ways.

Isa. 44:6,8 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHVH) the King of Israel, and his REDEEMER (Christ) the LORD (YHVH) of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any."

In Rev. 1:8, Jesus said, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the ALMIGHTY." In Rev. 22:13,16, he said, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last....I am the root (YHVH) and the offspring of David (YHVH in human flesh)."

II Cor. 5:19 says, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself."

I Cor. 2:8: "Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." Christ was "he that came down from heaven" (John 3:13). He "saith, I came down from heaven" (John 6:42).

Isa. 45:21,22 says, "I the LORD (YHVH)? and there is no God else beside me; a just God AND A SAVIOUR; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, ALL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH: for I am God, and THERE IS NONE ELSE."

Isa. 46:9,10 says, "I am God, and there is NONE ELSE; I am God, and there is NONE LIKE ME, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure."

Isa. 48:16 demonstrates the three manifestations of our Elohim, the Godhead. It says, "Come ye near unto me (YHVH of hosts, Christ), hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD (the Father), and HIS SPIRIT (the Holy Spirit of God), hath sent me" (Christ). YHVH of hosts, Christ, is the one that deals with man. As the FIRST, he was Lord of the Old Testament. As the LAST, he is the Lord of the New Testament.

Col. 1:14 says, "And he is before all things, and by him all thing CONSIST."

Heb. 1:1-3 says, "GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by (en, in) his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and UPHOLDING ALL THINGS BY THE WORD OF HIS POWER, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down ON the right hand of the Majesty on high."

Isa. 52:10; 53:1,5 says, "The LORD (YHVH) hath made bare HIS HOLY ARM (Christ) in the eyes of ALL THE NATIONS; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God (Elohim)....to whom is the ARM OF THE LORD (YHVH) revealed?...he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and WITH HIS STRIPES WE ARE HEALED."

Rev. 19:13 says of Christ, "his name is called The Word of God."

John 1:1-4,14 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. IN HIM WAS LIFE...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us."

Isa. 9:6 explains, "For unto us a child is born (inheriting his human nature from his mother), unto us a son is given (inheriting his deity from his Father): and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace."

God is Spirit (John 4:24). The "Spirit of God...is the "Spirit of Christ" (Rom. 8:9). Eph. 4:4,5 says, "There is...one Spirit...One Lord, one faith." Jesus said, "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).

I John 2:23 says, "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."

> I have studied Hinduism, Buddhism, and Christianity, and the
> fundamental basis of all these faiths, in my humble view, is the golden
> rule, is peace and harmony.

The golden rule is the way to live, but if a person ever slipped and committed a sin, they would be lost without a Saviour. The Bible tells us that not one person has ever been able to not commit sin but Jesus Christ. Rom 3:10 says, "There is none righteous, no, not one." We are all lost without Christ, and that includes "Hindu and Buddhist monks."

> I am having a hard time reconciling the Christian commandment to
> "have no other God by me".

The first commandment, in Ex. 20:3-5, says, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image...Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord (YHVH) am a jealous God."

God is the creator of the Universe and the Sovereign of the Universe. He created man and put him on Earth to be tested. Will he or won't he obey God. If God says something is a certain way, that is the way it is. We have no choice in the matter. He is the Sovereign and is omnipotent (all powerful), omnipresent (present everywhere) and omniscient (knows all things). He made the decision, and by his almighty power, that decision stands.

> these are people who have never had the opportunity to have Christianity
> come into their lives.

If a person, anywhere, really wants to know the true God and cries out to Him, God will get the information he needs to him in some way.

Our complex bodies are examples of the power and knowledge of God. That should alert us to search for our maker. There is no way that the complexities of life, plant or animal, could happen accidentally. There are no other kinds popping up all around us, either. God even seeds the grass on the hillsides for the animals. He takes care of them. Psa. 104:10-14 says, "He sendeth the springs into the valleys, which run among the hills. They give drink to every beast of the field: the wild asses quench their thirst....He watereth the hills from his chambers: the earth is satisfied with the fruit of thy works. He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man."

The whole universe is a revelation of the deity and power of God. Rom. 1:19,20 says, "that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse."

Rom. 2:14,15 mentions the Gentiles: "when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do BY NATURE the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another."

Scripture is God's word to man. It is our manual so that we can pass our test. God proved it is Godbreathed in many ways. Every word is there for a specific reason. The thing that got me was that his very detailed prophecies have all come true 100%. The Bible is complete. Nothing can be added to it. Rev. 22:18 says, "I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book." The next verse says about the same for taking anything away "from the things which are written in this book."

Rom. 10:9,10 says, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." In His agape love

Incoming Email

Part 1
I have emailed you a couple times earlier this year. Since emailing you, I have been on my own path of discovery in the Scriptures. Your site is the sole initiating source behind my Bible studies....

On your front page...you wrote:
The Jan. 23, 1999, GRB appeared in the constellation Bootes (THE COMING SHEPHERD), a decan in the constellation Virgo (THE VIRGIN). That is also significant. The Greek Bootes is taken from the Hebrew root "bo," meaning TO COME. A bright star in Bootes is Arcturus, which means HE COMES. Other star names are revealing. Al Katurops (near where the GRB was seen Jan. 23) means THE BRANCH, TREADING UNDER FOOT, or THE SHEPHERD'S CROOK. Nekkar means THE PIERCED (i.e., the pierced shepherd). Mizar, GUARDIAN, was earlier known as Mirac, THE COMING FORTH (like an arrow). Murphride means TO SEPARATE. This fits beautifully, for at the Rapture, Christ will come and separate the Philadelphians from the Laodiceans.

1. ...I just wonder where you found your word origin....

2. What is a "decan"?

3. ...Arcturus's...meaning

4. In the KJV, I found "branch". But that is given Strong's Greek Number 2798, which is klados. I can't find Katurops. Is it Hebrew?...

I would really appreciate any help you give me with these word origins...

Part 2
This is just a kind of interrogative-observation. Why would the God of mercy, who risked everything when He sent His Word to become flesh {stepping down, setting aside all His majesty to become a mortal human for a time} put His saints {His Blood covered, white as snow, clean, holy, justified, purified children} through a time of His wrath being revealed against this present world? And why would anyone believe that He would? And, judging from the history of the Bible which amply demonstrates that God rescues those whom He loves, and whom He has chosen, why would anyone think that He would leave His Son's Bride here on earth to ride out a judgment upon this present world system?

I can see where Satan might want to do such a thing. But I don't know how someone who believes in the concept of free, unwarranted, unmerited, undeserved forgiveness, salvation and reconciliation would debate, on the negative side, the point that God would NOT spare the recipients of His promises. After going through all the trouble to make us clean, holy, acceptable and presentable to Himself, how can one perceive the message of the timing of the Rapture to be at any time other than before the Tribulation?

To me, the concept of a wise virgin and a foolish virgin clearly points to two sets of saints. What is a "foolish virgin"? I am asking this rhetorically. And why would God distinguish between two sets of "virgins" without intending something important be made of it?

God bless you and keep you firmly set in His word, and in His Word.
Your brother in Christ. In Christ's love

My reply

I'm glad I got you interested in studying the Bible. I find it fascinating.

> 1. ...I just wonder where you found your word origin....

Three books, "E.W. Bullinger's "Witness of the Stars," Joseph A. Seiss' "Gospel in the Stars," and F. Chris Patrick's "Zodiac Conspiracy." Try this URL for Bullinger's on the Internet: http://philologos.org/_eb-tws/default.html. You can contact Chris Patrick at: Fpat888777@aol.com. I do not have Seiss' book, but some email friends do. They have helped me out there.

Names are from different languages, Hebrew, Arabic, Syriac, Akkadian, etc.

For example, here is a sample from Bullinger, Chap. IV, Aries: "In the Denderah Zodiac its name is Tametouris Ammon, which means the reign, dominion, or government of Ammon. The lamb's head is without horns, and is crowned with a circle. "The Hebrew name is Taleh, the lamb. The Arabic name is Al Hamal, the sheep, gentle, merciful. This name has been mistakenly given by some to the principal star, A. The Syriac name is Amroo, as in the Syriac New Testament in John 1:29...The ancient Akkadian name was Bara-ziggar. Bar means altar, or sacrifice; and ziggar means right making; so that the full name would be the sacrifice of righteousness."

On p. 11, Chris Patrick said, "The names of the constellations are essentially the same in all languages and go back to Babylon, and the tower of Babel. The Babylonians introduced a corruption from the earlier use of these signs. Ancient Persian and Arabian traditions credit the invention of astronomy to Adam, Seth and Enoch."

Josephus said, "Now, Adam, who was the first man...had indeed many other children, but Seth in particular....They also were the inventors of that peculiar sort of wisdom which is concerned with the heavenly bodies, and their order." (Ant. I. II. 3).

The early patriarchs lived a long time. Adam and Seth were contemporary with Enoch. Noah's father, Lamech, was born before Adam died. Enoch was a prophet. Jude 14 says, "Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied."

It would not surprise me if Enoch was the one that worked out the Zodiac by the Lord's instructions and Adam and Seth's help. The gospel is told in the stars, over and over. Also, the arrangement of stars within each constellation seldom suggest the name of the constellation. The names of the stars carry on the gospel story though. It all seems to have been masterminded by God so that man had the gospel written in the stars before he had it written in a scroll. Psa. 147:4 says, "He (the LORD) telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names."

On pp. 9,10, Bullinger said, "If we turn to history and tradition, we are at once met with the fact that the Twelve Signs are the same, both as to the meaning of their names and as to their order in all the ancient nations of the world. The Chinese, Chaldean, and Egyptian records go back to more than 2,000 years B.C. Indeed, the Zodiacs in the Temples of Denderah and Esneh, in Egypt, are doubtless copies of Zodiacs still more ancient, which, from internal evidence, must be placed nearly 4,000 B.C., when the summer solstice was in Leo....Josephus...says that...'God gave the antediluvians such long life that they might perfect those things which they had invented in astronomy.'...Ancient Persian and Arabian traditions ascribe its invention to Adam, Seth, and Enoch." On p. 14, he says, "...while Alpha in the constellation of Draco was the Polar Star when the Zodiac was first formed, the Polar Star is now Alpha in what is called Ursa Minor. This change alone carries us back at least 5,000 years."

Bullinger divides all the signs into Books. The First Book is THE REDEEMER (His First Coming) "The sufferings of Christ." The Second Book is THE REDEEMED "The result of the Redeemer's sufferings." The Third Book is THE REDEEMER (His Second Coming) "The glory that should follow."

As you read these books, you will be able to see how Satan has tried to scramble the true story of Astronomy by introducing Astrology, which is forbidden in the Bible.

> 2. What is a "decan"?

Each of the 12 main constellations are on the ecliptic, the band where, from our point of view, the sun and planets orbit in front of the stationary starry background. Associated with each of the main constellations are three other constellations, called decans. For instance, the decans of Cancer are the Greater Sheepfold (now called Ursa Major), the Lesser Sheepfold (Ursa Minor) and the ship Argo. The decans of Virgo are Centaurus, Bootes and Coma. The decans of Pisces are The Band, Andromeda and Cepheus.

> 3. ...Arcturus's...meaning

He comes.

> 4. In the KJV, I found "branch". But that is given Strong's Greek Number 2798, which is klados. I can't find Katurops. Is it Hebrew?...

I don't know. Bullinger says, The star (in the spear-head) is named Al Katurops, which means the branch, treading under foot." Chris Patrick says, The brightest star is Arcturus and means HE COMES. The theme of the shepherd is brought out with the star at the top of the shepherd's crook, AL KALUROPS, meaning THE SHEPHERD'S CROOK." In different drawings of the Zodiac, Bootes has either a spear or a shepherd's crook in his right hand.

> how can one perceive the message of the timing of the Rapture to be at any
> time other than before the Tribulation?

Beats me. I can see both Raptures, Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath so clearly in Scripure that it is a wonder to me that more do not see them. Sometimes, though, I think the person does not do his own personal search of the scriptures and just becomes convinced of what he reads in a book written by a man.

When I started out, I was afraid of being led astray by reasonable sounding words of man. I read the Bible first, before I read any of man's works about it, so I could judge what they said against the scriptures. Have I ever been glad I started out that way. A person who knows the Bible is a lot harder to fool than someone who has never read it all the way through themselves.

Incoming Email

Interesting, that these recent major world earthquakes (7.0 or greater in mag) are happening roughly 3 weeks apart. The number 7, of coarse, is a Godly number and 3 weeks apart (3 is also a divine number) could be like 3 minutes separating labor pains. OUR GOD IS AWESOME!! Also a major solar storm is being predicted soon. Read Earth Breaking News! Love in Christ PS Thanks for your GOD led web site

My reply

Thanks for the interesting information. What is the URL for Earth Breaking News?

Glad you like my Web site.

Incoming Email

You mentioned that Paul replaced Judas as the 12th apostle. ***Of the original 12 apostles, Judas was lost, and Paul replaced him. Of the original 12 sons of Jacob, I wonder if it is a similar situation. Dan is left out in Rev. 7 and "Manasses" took his place.

Is that right? Wasn't Paul actually the 13th Apostle?
23 And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 24 And they prayed and said, "Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, show which one of these two thou hast chosen 25 to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside, to go to his own place." 26 And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias; and he was enrolled with the eleven apostles.

My reply

There may be 12 for Israel and one for the Gentiles, but I don't think so. I think their choosing Matthias was of the flesh and allowed so there would be 12 when the Holy Spirit descended on them on Pentecost. He is never heard of again. The Lord chose Paul. The Lord said, "he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel" (Acts 9:15).

"Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father" (Gal. 1:1). "Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God" (I Cor. 1:1). He was taught of God, and when he got with the others, his teachings agreed with theirs.

In Mt. 19:28, Jesus said, "in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon TWELVE THRONES, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." In Rev. 4:4, there are 24 elders sitting on 24 thrones. I think twelve are the patriarches of the tribes of Israel and twelve are the apostles.

Paul was special. He was even "caught up (harpazo, as in the Rapture) to the third heaven (Mars, Jupiter, Saturn)....caught up (harpazo) into paradise" (II Cor. 12:2-7). He didn't know if he was in the body or out of it.

I Thess. 4:17 says, "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air."

The meaning of "harpazo" was demonstrated by Paul. It is also shown us in Rev. 12:5, "and her child was caught up (harpazo) unto God, and to his throne." Moses and Elijah show what happens when we are caught up. Rev. 11:12 says, "they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."

Not only will Moses and Elijah be seen ascending, we will too. I think the first Rapture will be seen. Psalm 40:1-3 says, "I WAITED patiently for the LORD; and he inclined (bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. He brought me up also out of an horrible pit (out of the Earth), out of the miry clay (our bodies of clay), and set my feet upon a rock (the heavenly planet), and established my goings. And he hath put a new song (sung after the Rapture in Revelation 5:9) in my mouth, even praise unto our God: MANY SHALL SEE IT, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD." The Lord never leaves himself without a witness. I think these will be on fire for the Lord. They will know the Bible is true. The number saved during the Tribulation will be so large that "no man could number" (Rev. 7:9) them.

   Pro and Con 425   Or Return  Home


Contact me for more information at: mjagee@pe.net

send me e-mail now.

8641 Sugar Gum Road, Riverside, CA, 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110


© 1998, 1999, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 11-14-99