Pro and Con 442

Uploaded 1-9-00

Note: I am still puzzling over the "bright green light" that streaked across the sky about 9:30 PM last Sunday. It was reported by residents and pilots all the way from Los Angeles to San Diego. It was at the time of the annual Quadrantid meteor shower and the Press Enterprise says, "Bright light was likely a meteor, expert says." Have you ever heard of a meteor looking bright green? I haven't.

Incoming Email

FROM CAPS...my brother received 3 prophetic Words this morning. I submit them for your judgement.

Subject: WORD, #1 of 3 recd.1.5.00
"Reach out to those who have sought in error, but honor the honest effort. Purification of thought must precede my coming. Acknowledgement of me and the completeness of the cross must be proclaimed. Despise not nor improve on the blood. That which is given is sufficient. Open your heart to revelation. I will be found of those who seek me early and my reward covers all needs for this time. Despise not waitings, patience is found as a reward in the promises written. Read the words and read the word--for they speak of me. Look to the unseen now. It is here. Lay hold and proclaim the truth--don't turn back to this world. Its days are numbered and many are found wanting. Honor those who have been faithful, for in feeding them you have life in yourself. Reach out soon and often. Time is coming around to reach the seeking and the lost. end"

Word #2 "Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision. Now. Preach and proclaim the One Decision to be made. Proclaim responsibility to the earth. Lay hold of the foundation and the altar. Access the unseen and use it for me. Tarrying time is over--decision time is here. Choose this day and lay hold of the hope stored up for it will not linger."

Word #3 "For those who receive it, it will be release. Feed on my body and my blood. Receive the life of God for the manifestation of healing and hurt. Tap the source of all power and spread it forth. Do not hoard it to yourselves. In saving you will be saved--let not this time pass without making the Decision. See my words as real. What has been is written--what will be is also written. Now is the time of revelation of what is to be. Receive it as my word--read the revelation; receive the promise of old in this day of revealing and restoration. Repent"

My reply

Thanks for sharing this with me. It will be wonderful to always be with the Lord after our testing time has run its course.

> Tarrying time is over--decision time is here. Choose this day and lay hold of
> the hope stored up for it will not linger."

That sounds wonderful. Oh, how I wish people like the nonbeliever on P & C 437 and 438 could make a decision for Christ before it is too late. He is turning down salvation because he wants to live a life without rules. Boy, will he be sorry. Whatever seems so all important to him now will one day lose its importance. Agape

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Is it correct that both Enoch and Elijah were raptured on Pentecost? Regards

My reply

Tradition says Enoch was. You can find "The Book of Enoch" and "The Book of The Secrets of Enoch" at: http://members.tripod.com/battison/enoch-1.html

Or see 'The Lost Books of The Bible and The Forgotten Books of Eden,' World Bible Publishers, 1926.

In chapter LXVIII of the Secrets of Enoch (present form written near beginning of Christian era), it says,

"(1) Enoch was born on the sixth day of the month Tsivan, and lived three hundred and sixty-five years. (2) He was taken up to heaven on the first day of the month Tsivan and remained in heaven sixty days. (3) He wrote all these signs of all creation, which the Lord created, and wrote three hundred and sixty-six books, and handed them over to his sons and remained on earth thirty days, and was again taken up to heaven on the sixth day of the month Tsivan, on the very day and hour when he was born."

I don't think we know when Elijah was caught up. See II Kings 2.

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thank you for your devotion to your web site. i am learning anew what it means to be a messenger for the lord. i hope to become as learned as many of the authors of these web sites.

My reply

Thanks. I am glad you like my site.

Incoming Email

You don't now me, but I picked your email address because I thought you could answer my question.

As the Bible reads, Noah's flood occurred in BC 2500 or so, which swept all previous civilization of the mankind. Then, after the flood, the eight survivals of the Noah family restarted the civilization. So, any civilization of the world should not be older than BC 2500 (or 4500 years). In fact, most nations do not exceed 4500 years. However, it is estimated and agreed that Egypt has her civilization from BC 3500, one thousand years earlier than BC 2500. How can you explain this gap?

Thanks for your help. May the Lord bless you!

My reply

I think mankind started with Adam in BC 4043/44. Noah was descended from Adam, so our genealogy goes all the way back to Adam too. The Flood was in 1656 AH (BC 2387). Noah's sons were Shem, Ham and Japheth. The Egyptians are descended from Ham after the Flood. Whatever was there before was wiped out by the Flood.

The sons of Ham were Cush, Mizraim, Phut, and Canaan. Egypt is called Misrayim in the Old Testament. I take it that Mizraim settled there. Don't you?

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I emailed Ken Raggio asking him who he thinks those folks seated on the thrones who were given authority to judge [in Revelation 20:4] are.  A link at his home page asks when the rapture is.  The answer is given as Revetion 20:4.  He refers to the ones who were beheaded as the participants of the first resurrectiion [which he takes to mean the Rapture]

  And, I am asking you the same thing.  Who do you think they are.  Please point me to Scripture for the answer to that -- not that you need reminding, but I asked him for the same. God bless you.

My reply

The ones seated on the thrones In Rev. 20:4 are those with crowns in Rev. 5.4. They are the 12 patriarchs of Israel and the 12 apostles. When one of them, John, is caught up in Rev. 4:1, the rest are too. So are the people in 5:9.10 that are "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" who are made "unto our God kings and priests" to "reign on (epi, over) the earth."

When "the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory (on the Feast of Trumpets that begins the millennial Day of the Lord), ye (the apostles) also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Mt. 19:28). Isa. 1:26 says, "I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city."

The "first resurrection" of Rev. 20:5 is in ranks. In "Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his OWN order (tagmati, rank), Christ the firstfruits (in 30 AD); afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." If it wasn't in ranks, and it started in 30 AD, we would all be out of luck.

Christ comes at two Raptures, the Pre-Trib one (Rev. 4:1; 5:9) and the Pre-Wrath one. The first takes place in Rev. 4:1, before the first seal is broken in Rev. 6. The second takes place between the breaking of the sixth (Rev. 6:12) and seventh seals (Rev. 8). This "great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" are "they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Rev. 7:9,14).

Those of the first Rapture are "kings and priests" with crowns. Rev. 3:10,11 says to the Philadelphians, Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy CROWN." These are not told to repent--they already have. There is no need to wash their robes in the blood of the lamb--they already have. The Laodiceans and foolish virgins are in need of washing their robes in the blood of the lamb.

Those of the second Rapture are not seated on thrones or wearing crowns in Rev. 7:15. They are BEFORE the throne of God, and SERVE him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them." Since the latter group is out of the Tribulation, "they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." It doesn't say they wear crowns or sit on thrones. They are serving BEFORE the throne of God.

In the Preview of the first Rapture in Rev. 1, verse 6 says that he "hath made us KINGS and PRIESTS unto God and his Father."

The day of the second Rapture is also the day of Christ's Coronation, the Judgment Seat of Christ, the Marriage of the Lamb and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, all in Heaven. While the saints are receiving their rewards in Heaven, the unbelievers on Earth are receiving their just rewards for their unbelief.

Rev. 11:15-18 says, "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and shall REIGN for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats (lit., THRONES), fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

The Second Advent is 7 Jewish months after this day (Eze. 39:12). This is the day of the trumpet, alarm and thick darkness (Joel 2:1-3). Jesus does not return on a dark day. Zech. 14:5-7 says, "the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light." Agape

His reply

...good answer...

Incoming Email

I have been reading the "Left Behind" series, and it tells of the rapture and the tribulation period, I was kind of curious, because it tells that there will be signs aacross the land, portraying the coming of the Rapture and the beginning of the Tribulation. Where exactly does it quote in the bible, the parts about the Rapture and Tribulation period, because I would like to research it myself, and look into it as a true Christian. Please show me where to start reading in the bible, to find this information. Sincerely

My reply

Left Behind is fiction. It has some errors. See Pro and Con 440.

For quickly gettin a good background on the Rapture and Tribulation. First, look up the following specific passages, then settle down to read all of Revelation. After that, read Isaiah 40 through Malachi, skipping for now Lamentations and Eze. 1 - 19 and 40 - 48. It isn't all about the Rapture and Tribulation, but much of it is. As you read, remember that Revelation is an outline that you can flesh out with scattered OT prophecies. That is why you should read Revelation before reading the OT prophecies.

Revelation keeps things in the proper order. It is written from the vantage point of the Rapture, as if Christ is standing on that pinnacle and looking both backward and forward to describe what he sees. There are parenthetical sections between the sixth and seventh seals, trumpets and vials. In those, you will find what I call match marks to show you where they belong in the time scale. Compare words or events to put it in the right spot timewise.

Between the 6th and 7th seals is Rev. 7, which describes the great multitude that takes part in the Pre-Wrath Rapture. It takes place between the sixth (Rev. 6:12) and seventh seals (Rev. 8). This sealing is similar to the "mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations" in Eze. 9:1-7. It takes place just prior to the catastrophic destruction when the asteroid impacts of Rev. 8:8,10 take place at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5; Eze. 25:16; Job 20:23; Amos 8:9) on the Day of God's Wrath (Rev. 6:17). In Eze. 9, the 6 man slayers were to slay all lacking the mark right after the mark was placed.

Between the 6th and 7th trumpets is Rev. 10 and 11:1-14. This part of Rev. 11 goes all the way back to the beginning of the Tribulation to tell us about God's two witnesses, Moses and Elijah. It mainly covers the first 1260 days of the Tribulation.

Rev. 16:13-16 is between the 6th and 7th vials. The time covered seems to be from the beginning of the Tribulation to the battle of Armageddon that follows both the Second Advent and the Judgment of the Nations (Mt. 25:31-46).

Pre-Trib Rapture, before the 1st seal is broken, as the days of Noah (no fire falls):
I Thess. 4:13-18; Rev. 4 and 5; Isa. 33:14-17; 57:1-3; Mt. 24:37-41; Lu. 17:26,27

Pre-Wrath Rapture, between the breaking of the 6th and 7th seals, as the days of Lot (fire falls that same day), Day of God's Wrath:
I Cor. 15:51,52; Rev. 7:9,14; Lu. 17:28-37; Isa. 27:20.21

Tribulation, 7 years:
Lev. 26:28; Dan. 9:27; Rev. 6:1 - 13:18

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1800's Eskimo prophet (Jim Bramlett)
The below was forwarded to me today about an Eskimo prophet from the last century. I cannot attest to its truth, but I have no reason to doubt it. I do not know any more about it.

Jim
***
Duane Shrewsbury gave me a copy of "God in the Arctic" by Fred Bodine, who ministers to the First Nation tribes of Eskimo Indians in Alaska and Canada. In this tape, I learned of the prophet Maneelock.

Maneelock was a powerful prophet of God who was born in the early 1800's and died over 100 years ago. Young Maneelock was seeking after god according to his Eskimo culture. God spoke to him. The voice of the True God spoke to him telling him that the source of All Intelligence, All Light, and All Power, is the Father and the Son. Maneelock told God that he believed His voice and was mightily used by the True God in the ministry of a prophet to the Eskimo Indians. Maneelock had a number prophecies that seemed outlandish in his time; HOWEVER THE PROPHECIES OF MANEELOCK, ARE ASTOUNDING IN THESE LAST DAYS.

THE FOLLOWING PROPHECIES OF MANEELOCK WERE GIVEN OVER 100 YEARS AGO IN THE 1800'S:

About 100 years ago the Caribou stopped their age old migration route on the Seward Peninsula. Maneelock was laughed to scorn for suggesting the caribou would not migrate where they always had. Maneelock said when the Caribou come back to their age old migration route on the Seward Peninsula that is when Jesus would return. The caribou have not been seen on those migration routes for approximately 100 years. THIS WINTER over 900,000 of the caribou were seen migrating back across their historic Seward Peninsula migration route.

There would be boats coming with fire in the back end of the boats. The boats would also fly in the skies and that his great grandchildren would fly in them and not be afraid and eat their lunches in them while flying in them without any fear.

Birch bark would be pressed so thin that they could write on it.

There would be white people come to Alaska. They would bring a large black book that would have the name of the Son and tell all about the Son in their big black books.

The power of the shamans would be broken. By the way, the Eskimo shamans are the highest evolved occult practices know in the world. They have always practiced transformations, many have seen and even photographed these Eskimo shamans as walrus men with tusks coming from their chin almost to the floor, bird men that could fly by soul transport. And though recently, there has been a resurgence of the powerful Eskimo shamans, their power was broken from the days of Maneelock until recently.

Maneelock prophesied of a village called Ambler. That white people would find something in the ground and build a great village. Recently, Boronite was found there and the village of Ambler has grown to over 20,000 and 747's land there to fly out the Boronite.

Maneelock said a WHALE would surface in Ambler in the END DAYS. LAST SUMMER 3 Beluga whales surfaced in Ambler some 350 miles inland from the ocean.

Just before the return of the Son there would be 2 Winters. We know that Nuclear Winter is one of the horrible results of strategic nuclear war.

Maneelock said that his great grandson would fly in the boats with fire in their tails. Maneelock said that his great grandson would see the end of days and return of the Son. Maneelock's great grandson is now 79. Maneelock's great grandson now says that very soon now 2 Winters.

Maneelock said that the WHITE BUFFALO would be born to the Sioux people when Jesus would return. Just this year there was a white buffalo born in North Dakota. Many Indians are now making pilgrimage to see this white buffalo.

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From: tgd@multipro.com
Pre-Trib Rapture objections..."ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER LEFT"

  Below we have 2 passages of scripture which contain similar language....The similarities in some parts of these 2 separate speeches have been the occasion of much confusion.  The Matthew passage refers only to the Rapture, and the Luke passage refers only to a mass organized persecution.  Those who are TAKEN in Matthew are taken in the Rapture, and those who are taken in Luke are arrested and killed.  This I can readily demonstrate to your satisfaction.  What is less easily proven, but I insist is required by the similarity of the language, is that both these events happen almost simultaneously.  Please carefully read the below scripture passages.

  Matthew 24:37-42  But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be....Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left...

  The above words were spoken by Jesus on the Mount of Olives (Matt.24:3).

  Luke 17:31-37  In that day...Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

  ...If you will allow for each of the above quotations to be a separate address to a different matter, they will each establish a different truth, and WILL NOT conflict with each other.

  ...My first point is to show you that the words translated to "taken" in Matthew 24:40 and Luke 17:34 are NOT the same word. The Greek words below are copied directly from The Textus Receptus.

paralhfyhsetai = paralhfyhsetai - Luke word for "taken"

paralambanetai = paralambanetai - Matthew word for "taken"

NOTICE PLEASE - they are NOT spelled the same way and are not pronounced the same way. They are SEPARATE and DIFFERENT words.

Matthew 24:40-41 from Young's Literal Translation

40 Then two men shall be in the field, the one is received, and the one is left;

41 two women shall be grinding in the mill, one is received, and one is left.

...Matthew 24:40-41 from the Darby Translation 1889

40 Then two shall be in the field, one is taken and one is left;

41 two women grinding at the mill, one is taken and one is left.

Luke 17:34-35 from the Darby Translation 1889

34 I say to you, In that night there shall be two men upon one bed; one shall be seized and the other shall be let go.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be seized and the other shall be let go.

...I have already proved that the Matthew account describes a Rapture, and that the Luke account describes an arrest.

...Luke 17:31-37...36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Only the Luke quotation ends with a discussion of dead bodies and carrion eating birds. This evidently means that these who are "siezed-arrested" are taken off and killed. Note the context - the warning about fleeing in verse 31! The Luke address warns you to flee without hesitation or you will be arrested and end up a dead corpse being picked at by birds. THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT IT - those described in Luke are siezed-arrested, carried off, and KILLED.

Matthew 24:37-42 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be...NO SUCH WARNING about fleeing is given in the above verses. There is no mention of dead bodies being eaten by birds....

(Luke 21:36 KJV)  Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

So...YES....there will be a pogrom: a sudden and violent arrest of Christians, and they will be carried off and killed.

And..YES....there is a pre-pogrom Rapture, in which those accounted worthy shall escape ALL these things.

AND...I propose that the similarity of language implies that BOTH EVENTS will happen on the SAME DAY.

...chapter 4 of THE GREAT DREAM....http://www.apostasynow.com/tgd/index.html

My reply

> I have already proved that the Matthew account describes a Rapture, and that the Luke
> account describes an arrest... AND...I propose that the similarity of language
> implies that BOTH EVENTS will happen on the SAME DAY.

I don't think so. Mt. 24:37-41 and is talking about the Pre-Trib Rapture that is as the days of Noah. The same day that Noah entered the Ark, it RAINED WATER. Lu. 17:28-37 is talking about the Pre-Wrath Rapture that is as the days of Lot. "But the SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it RAINED FIRE AND BRIMSTONE." Surely you can see the difference. Also, Noah's wife was floated UP in the Ark. Lot's wife did NOT go UP to the mountain. Marriage IS mentioned in the description of the days of Noah. It IS NOT mentioned in the description of the days of Lot. Why do you think that is?

After the first Rapture, the evil servant is left behind. Jesus will come "in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion (2300 days of the Tribulation, Dan. 8:14) with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Lu. 12:46 makes this a little clearer: "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (of the Tribulation) with the UNBELIEVERS."

There are two "days of the Son of man," two Raptures. In Lu. 17:22-26, Jesus said, "The days will come, when ye shall desire to see ONE of the DAYS OF THE SON OF MAN, and ye shall NOT see it (the first Rapture). And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there (Mid-Trib, Mt. 24:26): go not after them, nor follow them. For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day....And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days (plural, there are two) of the Son of man." In the account of the days of Lot, Lu. 17:30 says, "Even thus shall it be in the DAY (singular, i.e., it is the latter of the two days of the Son of man) when the Son of man is revealed" (the Sign of the Son of Man is seen when the heavens are rolled back like a scroll, Mt. 24:30, Rev. 6:14).

Mk. 13:27 shows that the elect are partly on Earth and partly in Heaven at the time of Rapture 2. It says, "then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together (to the "general assembly...in heaven," Heb. 12:22,23) his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth (the Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of heaven" (those caught up previously in the Pre-Trib Rapture). Lu. 17:36,37 speaks of this gathering of all the elect. It says, Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken (caught up in Rapture 2), and the other left....Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (Body of Christ) is, thither will the eagles (high flying Tribulation saints) be gathered together."

Isa. 40:31 says, "they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings AS EAGLES; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint."

If we fail to see the difference between the two Raptures, we can easily get bogged down in trying to understand the scriptures that speak of them. The first trump is sounded in I Thess. 4:16. The second and "last trump" is sounded in I Cor. 15:52. The first is as the days of Noah. The second is as the days of Lot. "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly DIVIDING the word of truth" (II Tim. 2:15).

> THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT IT - those described in Luke are siezed-
> arrested, carried off, and KILLED.

I don't think so. They are caught up in the second Rapture. They are "called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb (Rev. 19:9). Agape

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Updated 1-9-00