Pro and Con 443

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Actually, fireballs are a little larger than your regular run of the mill meteor. That may be why it was seen over such a distance. As for the color green, if the meteor contains a significant amount of copper, it could have appear green as it streaked across the sky.

My reply

Thanks for this information.

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Well we agree on some very important things.

  There is a rapture
Jesus has not come yet
The Gospel and way of Salvation
Something important happening in 2007
The Millenium starting soon (possibly 2007)

  The other dates are possibly conjecture and nothing to build a life on!  but a lot of fun!.  (I have built my life on What Jesus said and have been stopped from reading theological and similar books for a while now (a year?) so God can speak to me through His precious Word and I won't have the idea's of others polluting what He tells me.)

  I got my timeline from the 'Open Bible" and noticed the pattern of 500 and 2000 years. Hence my timeline.

  Curle has 200 for the rapture (from memory) I have 2003/2004 - the sooner the better! (I am escapist!)....Blessings

My reply

Yes, I agree on those things. I think more will happen on one day, Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007) than on any other day--ever. I think all these things take place in Heaven that day: Christ's Coronation, the Marriage of the Lamb, the Judgment Seat of Christ, and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. My reasons are in my book, Exit:2007: The Secret of Secrets Revealed.

On Earth, I believe it is the day of the second Rapture, judgment on unbelievers, asteroid impacts (Rev. 8:8,10), the Feast of Trumpets that starts the millennial Day of the Lord.

To me, the parable of the fig tree in Mt. 24:32-34 shows that 40 years from the Sign of the End of the Age, the Six-Day War when Israel grew leaves, will be the year of the catastrophe. Some people like to argue that a generation might not be 40 years, but David slew Goliath with a stone after Goliath threatened Israel 40 days. The similarity is inescapable. David is a type of Christ, and Goliath is a type of the giant united nations' army led by Gog in Eze. 38. The stone David slung represents the stone/asteroid Christ will "toss...like a ball into a large country" (Iraq, to destroy Babylon) (Isa. 22:18). One mountain-sized piece will break off and hit the Mediterranean Sea (Eze. 38:20; Zeph. 2:4,5) to stop the army that is invading Israel.
Another thing comes clear. David did not ascend the throne immediately. Christ will be crowned in Heaven, but will not return to Earth for 7 months (Eze. 39:12).

For my endtime chronology, see http://www.pe.net/~mjagee/endtime_chron.html

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I have something that has been bothering me ever since I started studying your materials. I am probably being very simple-minded about this but I hope you can clarify it as you always have.

Would you please outline very simply the timings of the 7 seals, 7 trumpets, and the 7 bowl judgements. I have read all your books and many of your P&C's and am still finding it hard to understand. As I read it you are saying that the 7 seal judgements are for the 7 years of tribulation, the 7 trumpet judgements are for the day after The Day of The Lord. (Do the trumpets only last a day?) and I don't know quite where you put the 7 bowl judgements. (How long do they last?). Could you also give some scripture references to each part of the outline. I am creating graphic representations of your timeline and need more info to get it right. Thanks so very much. Love ya!

My reply

Here is the way I see it. The seven seals cover the 2300-day (Dan. 8:14) shortened Tribulation, from the beginning of the Tribulation in Rev. 6 to the Day of God's Wrath (Rev. 6:17; 8:1f).

The seven trumpet judgments come out of the seventh seal. They all strike the Earth like rapid drumbeats on the Day of God's Wrath.

The seven bowls or vials show the cumulative effects of the 7 trumpet judgments over a little more time. For instance, when the "great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea...the third part of the sea became blood" (Rev. 8:8). In the vials, "every living soul died in the sea" (Rev. 16:3). The devastation spreads quickly. Read about the 7th vial (Rev. 16:17-21). Stones weighing about 100 pounds are still falling. The impact blasts may have thrown these up in the atmosphere. I don't know exactly how long these vials last, but in them is filled up the wrath of God. Agape

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I find it rather interesting that you would even propose a chronological time schedule for the endtime. According to the scriptures, no one knows the day nor the hour, not even the Son (Jesus). He is coming as a thief in the night and in an hour when you think not. Think about it. No one knows when a thief is coming and the scripture specifically says NO ONE KNOWS, NOT EVEN THE SON. Guessing and proposing is not appropiate. Just do as the scripture says and be ye also ready. You may want to read as a reference Matthew 24:36-80, Mark 13:32, and Luke 12:40.

My reply

I find it rather interesting that you think Jesus is coming for us as a thief in the night.

I Thess. 5:4-6 refutes that. It says, "But ye, brethren (believers), are NOT in DARKNESS, that that day should overtake you AS A THIEF. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: WE ARE NOT OF THE NIGHT, nor of darkness. Therefore let us NOT sleep, as do others; but let us WATCH and be sober."

Verse 51 is the last verse in Mt. 24. I don't think you meant verse 80.

Let's see, what does Mt. 24:35,36 say? Here are the very words out of the Lord's mouth. He knows exactly what he is talking about. He says, "HEAVEN AND EARTH SHALL PASS AWAY, but my words shall not pass away. But of THAT DAY AND HOUR (when Heaven and Earth shall pass away) knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

And what does Mk. 13:31,32 say? Jesus said, "HEAVEN AND EARTH SHALL PASS AWAY; but my words shall not pass away. But of THAT DAY AND THAT HOUR (when Heaven and Earth shall pass away) knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."

In both passages, the word "knoweth" is present tense. It was true in the day in which it was stated. It does not say that no one will ever know.

What does Lu. 12:39-46 say? Jesus said, "And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour (it doesn't mention day, month or year, does it?) when ye think not. Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of MEAT IN DUE SEASON? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find do doing. Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler ('kings and priests,' Rev. 5:10) over all that he hath. But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he (the unwise servant, i.e., the foolish virgin) looketh not for him, and at an hour (it doesn't mention year, month or week) when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (cut him off, as the Laodiceans are spewed out of the Body of Christ), and will appoint him his portion (2300 days of the Tribulation, Dan. 8:14) with the UNBELIEVERS."

MT. 24:51 says, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." It looks like the foolish virgins, the lukewarm Laodiceans and the unwise or evil servants will be left behind at the Pre-Trib Rapture. They will have to spend time with the hypocrites and unbelievers and be caught up with the Tribulation saints on the 2300th day. Will they be sorry? Yes. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. They were so close and muffed it.

Jesus said to the churches, "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee" (Rev. 3:3). What will we know if we do watch? what hour he will come upon us.

Are you watching? What things do you think could have been signs in 1999?

Are you searching the scriptures for clues? If not, you are missing out on some grace. The prophets "prophesied of the GRACE that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of TIME the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify" (I Pet. 1:10,11).

I John 2:18: "Little children, it is the last TIME: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last TIME."

While looking at I John 2, we can see something else that we should pay attention to in these latter days. These little children seem to represent the last generation. Verses 20-28 are very interesting: "But ye have an unction (annointing) from the Holy One, and ye know ALL things....But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you; but as the same anointing teacheth you of ALL things."

In Lu. 8:17,18, the Lord says, "Nothing (including the time of the Rapture) is secret, that shall not be made manifest: neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad. Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have."

Jesus said, "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you ALL things" (Mk. 13:23). Are you going to say that he hasn't? Agape

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Just started visiting your site 4/99 Thank you so much for all the insight. I will never look at the scriptures the same again. The Lord continue to Bless you richly. My question is, what will happen to the 144,000 sealed witnesses? Will they be raptured in the pre-wrath rapture? If not, what will happen to them?

My reply

Yes. I think the 144,000 get left behind the first time and will be caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture. The first Rapture is before the first seal is broken.

Between the 6th and 7th seals, Rev. 6:17 says, "the great day of his wrath is come." Chapter 7 starts out, "And AFTER THESE THINGS I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that they wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

The 144,000 are part of the "great multitude, which no man could number, OF ALL NATIONS" that come out of the Great Tribulation (Rev. 7:9,14). Agape

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From South Africa, Hi Marilyn, Ed and family,
I have just returned from a glorious holiday spent on the banks of a beautiful river....One of the the first things I did on returning was to switch on my P.C. and was happy to find that it was unaffected by the Y2K bug. I sat up nearly half the night reading all the P&C's that I had missed out on, so now I feel quite up to date....suddenly one night the heavens opened and it started to rain profusely, one house was actually under water up to window sill height, so I decided to do a bit of reading. I came upon this quote, which I felt was so beautifully and simply put across and seems to pertain to the writer of the letter in your P&C 438 who claims that he is an unbeliever, what a sad claim.

  If a man holds a yellow Rose in his hand, and claims that it does not have a scent,
The fault does not lie with the Rose, it lies with the Man.
It is the same with a man who does not believe in God,
The fault does not lie with God, but with the man who has failed to recognize Him.

  I liked your reply to the 13 year old who wrote so beautifully to you, it amazes me how the Lord works through people in different ways, so many times your answer's to other letters, whether it is from negative, inquiring, informative or debating readers sends strong signals out to people searching the truth and the mysteries of where we come from and where we are going to, our purpose on this earth and our spiritual worthiness. God has given you a very special purpose on this earth and you are managing your talents beautifully. The biggest commandment ever given to man is to love your Lord God with all your heart and all your mind and all your soul, the second is to love your neighbor as you love yourself. Your P&C pages radiate this love and I would like to thank you for this. Kind regards

My reply

Bless you for all those nice words. Every day, Ed says, "Did you get any email from the 13-year-old." Not yet....Hope this will be the best year of our lives. Agape

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Hi Marilyn and Ed, Of all things, I got information out of one of my books that confused Passover with Pentecost. You are correct, Shavuot is June 9 and June 10 of 2000. I accept by faith that this is when our redemption is to be made manifest. Pray up, pack up, look up, we are going up!!...Agape

My reply

Hope so. There are many 3rd day scriptures that might prefigure it. At Sinai, which represented Heaven, they were to wash their garments and "be ready against the third day" (Ex. 19:10,11). When Hezekiah received a sign, it was so he would know that he would be healed and "go up into the house of the LORD the third day" (II Ki. 20:8). I think we have been seeing signs. After the Crucifixion, Jesus came back to his disciples on the third day.

Here is one to consider. Before RAISING LAZARUS FROM THE DEAD, Jesus, "When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode TWO DAYS still in the same place where he was. Then AFTER THAT saith he to his disciples, LET US GO into Judaea (the praise of the Lord) again" (Jn. 11:6,7).

In Jn. 2:19-21, Jesus said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up...he spake of the temple of his body." We are not only the spiritual temple, but the Body of Christ.

It is interesting that Israel took the temple area on June 10, 1967, just 33 years ago, and we are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Also, the 33 years plus the 7 of the Tribulation equal 40, the length of the last generation. The number 40 means probation and testing. Goliath threatened Israel 40 days, then David slew the giant with a stone, just as a stone will stop the giant army headed by Gog after 40 years. Agape

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Richard Engstrom wrote:
Hello Marlyn, Although I favor your theory of multiple Raptures, I must object to your take as expressed in your paragraph below:

> Mk. 13:27 shows that the elect are partly on Earth and partly in Heaven
> at the time of Rapture 2. It says, "then he shall send his angels, and
> shall gather together (to the "general assembly...in heaven," Heb.
> 12:22,23) his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the
> earth (the Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of heaven" (those
> caught up previously in the Pre-Trib Rapture). Lu. 17:36,37 speaks of
> this gathering of all the elect. It says, Two men shall be in the field;
> the one shall be taken (caught up in Rapture 2), and the other
> left....Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (Body
> of Christ) is, thither will the eagles (high flying Tribulation saints)
> be gathered together."

Reply:
There is no mention of "fleeing" in the Matthew passage as there is the the Luke 17 passage. Why would the saints need to flee if they were going to be taken up in the second Rapture. Also, you relegation of the "body" to the "Body of Christ, and the "eagles" to "high flying Tribulation saints" is only an arbitrary interpretation to fit your theory. There is nothing in this Luke passage to warrant such a leap. "Uttermost parts of heaven" could just as easily be seen as those who are, at that

Richard, and "us" 1 John 4:6, THE GREAT DREAM web site, http://www.apostasynow.com

My reply

Where in Lu. 17 does it say to flee? I take it that they are NOT to flee. The KJV says, "the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (the Sign of the Son of Man seen after the sixth seal is broken, Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14). IN THAT DAY, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him NOT come down to take it away (i.e., not flee): and he that is in the field, let him likewise NOT return back. Remember Lot's wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, IN THAT NIGHT (after the Sign of the Son of Man is seen) there shall be two men in one bed (not fleeing); the one shall be taken (Rapture 2), and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together (not fleeing); the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field (not returning back); the one shall be taken, and the other left." (Lu. 17:29-36).

> the "eagles" to "high flying Tribulation saints" is only an
> arbitrary interpretation to fit your theory

I don't try to make anything fit anything. I let the Bible say what it says and let the chips fall where they may. The Bible interprets itself. Isa. 40:31 says, "But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; THEY SHALL MOUNT UP WITH WINGS AS EAGLES; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint." I believe what it says, that people "that wait upon the LORD...THEY SHALL MOUNT UP WITH WINGS AS EAGLES." Agape

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Dean, and, "US" 1 John 4:6 wrote:
I am indeed intrigued by the differentiation you make between "heaven to heaven" and "earth to heaven", but the earth to heaven phrase occurs in Mark, not in Luke, and has no connection to Luke 17:34-35. You are against the whole consensus of scholarship in making these eagles into saints, and the "body" into Christ Jesus.

  Matthew 24:28 opou <3699gar <1063ean <1437h <5600(5753) to <3588ptwma <4430ekei <1563sunacyhsontai <4863(5701) oi <3588aetoi <105>

Matthew 24:28 For <1063wheresoever <1437<3699the carcase <4430is <5600(5753), there <1563will <4863<0the eagles <105be gathered together <4863(5701).

The same eagles are in Matthew and Luke, but here, they are plainly gathered about a dead, lifeless, stinking corpse.  Please explain. This is not an insolent challenge...please do not take it as such...

Also, in Luke we are told to "remember Lot's wife": what does this mean, if not that escape should be deliberate and without hesitation?  "let him not come down", "let him not return back", "remember Lot's wife".  If this is plain to you, please try to make it plain to me. I would like to understand.

Dean, and "us" 1 John 4:6, THE GREAT DREAM web site, http://www.apostasynow.com

My reply

The first thing I do to figure out if two passages are talking about the same thing is to look for what I call match marks. The following 3 passages are talking about the same thing, so they take place at the same time.

(1) Mt. 24:26,27: "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; GO NOT FORTH: behold, he is in the secret chambers; BELIEVE IT NOT. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

(2) Mk. 13:21: "And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; BELIEVE HIM NOT."

(3) Lu. 17:23,24: "And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: GO NOT AFTER THEM, nor follow them. For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be IN HIS DAY."

(1A) Mt. 24:30: "And then shall appear THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall SEE the Son of man coming IN THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN with power and great glory."

(2B) Mk. 13:26: "And then shall they SEE THE SON OF MAN coming IN THE CLOUDS with great power and glory."

(3C) Lu. 17:30: "Even thus shall it be in the day when THE SON OF MAN IS REVEALED."

The last of the two Days of the Son of Man, Rapture 2, the "last trump" (I Cor. 15:51,52), is when the Sign of the Son of Man is seen as the smoky atmospheric heavens roll aside as a scroll and men see Christ on his throne (Mt. 24:30). Rev. 6:14-17 says, "the heavens departed as a scroll when it is rolled together...And the kings...and every...man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks...And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the FACE OF HIM THAT SITTETH ON THE THRONE, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of his wrath is come." It is also Coronation Day. That is why he is sitting on his throne. He receives his golden crown.

The angels hold back God's Wrath until the Tribulation saints are safe in Heaven (Rev. 7:1-14). This second Rapture is the Pre-Wrath Rapture, the "last trump" (I Cor. 15:52). The Pre-Trib Rapture is the first trump (I Thess. 4:16). No believer is to suffer the Wrath of God (Rom. 5:9; I Thess. 5:9). Every one of them has to be taken out of here before civilization as we know it is destroyed by the two asteroid impacts (Rev. 8:8,10; Rev. 18:21).

Since all 3 passages, in Matthew, Mark and Luke, are talking about the same time, we can put them all together for a fuller picture. When Lu. 17:36,37 says, "Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left...Where Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (soma) is, thither will the eagles be gathered together," it is the same as in Mt. 24:27-31.

It says, "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase (body) is (in Heaven), there will the EAGLES (Tribulation saints) be gathered together. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven (sixth seal, Rev. 6:12f), and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory (this is not the Second Advent, which is still 7 months in the future, Eze. 39:12). And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet (the "last trump," I Cor. 15:52), and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

All the elect are called on the Feast of Trumpets that begins the millennial Day of the Lord, "To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant."

They are called to this assembly in Heaven for this is the day of Christ's Coronation, the Marriage of the Lamb, the Judgment Seat of Christ and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. While the saints, small and great, are receiving their rewards in Heaven, the unbelievers on Earth are receiving their just rewards for their unbelief. Rev. 11:15-18 says, "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever....And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

Eagles are associated with the Lord's moving Israel. Ex. 19:4 is referring to the Exodus, "Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on EAGLES' WINGS, and BROUGHT YOU UNTO MYSELF." Sinai represented Heaven.

In the middle of the Tribulation, Rev. 12:14 says, "to the woman (Israel) were given two wings of a great EAGLE, that she might FLY into the wilderness."

> "remember Lot's wife": what does this mean

We have to obey the Lord. If he says, "Run," we run. If he says, "Don't run," we don't run. Lot's wife was told not to look back. In Gen. 19:17, the angel said, "ESCAPE for thy life; LOOK NOT BEHIND THEE, neither stay thou in all the plain; ESCAPE TO THE MOUNTAIN, LEST THOU BE CONSUMED." She disobeyed and looked back. Therefore, she did not escape. The Tribulation saints are told "NOT" to come down and take anything away, or "NOT" to return back. They can't take things with them. Agape

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Arutz-7 News: January 5-7, 2000 (Hebraic.Heritage.Newsgroup@sol.wwwnexus.com
PRAYERS ARE ANSWERED
The heavy rains that began in Israel two nights ago continue in force. Some residents of flooded homes in Jaffa have been evacuated, while others were trapped for hours; traffic lights in downtown Tel Aviv have been knocked out of service, and miles of traffic jams developed on various highways. Snowstorms are raging in the Golan - some two feet of snow have piled up on the highest peak of Mt. Hermon - and snow has begun to fall in the Galilee. The Sea of Galilee has risen by five centimeters.

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