Pro and Con 448
Incoming Email Just finished giving your treatise of "The Bride of Christ" all the time I could of what was left of my lunch time...
What I could absorb of what you wrote seemed closer than just about any other Christian writer I have read recently. I agree that we were, indeed, created for the purpose of good works, quite in addition to being sanctified for all time by the blood of Yeshua.
I, however, am Messianic. I belong eternally to Adonai by the atoning blood of the The Pasach Lamb just as you and other believing Christians. The question I am about to ask, however, has, I believe, truly unbelievable importance to all who would desire to live a life pleasing to Elohaynu. The question is....
Is it still "one of The 10" to keep the Shabbat, and, if so, (or if not) what do the Scriptures say by way of instruction?...Thank you for your consideration. B'Shem Yeshua HaMeshiach
My reply If I was a Messianic Jew, a believer in Y'shua (Yah Shua), I would probably keep Shabbat. It was given to Israel to be a sign between them and Yah Veh throughout their generations. However, it is not mandatory as it was in BCE times. Col. 3:16,17 in the Complete Jewish Bible, says, "So don't let anyone pass judgment on you in connection with eating and drinking, or in regard to a Jewish festival or Rosh-Hodesh or SHABBAT. These are a shadow of things that are coming, but the body is of the Messiah." We are free today to worship on any day we choose. The Shabbat, Jubilee, and seven feasts are already set times that we need to pay attention to because they are a shadow of things that are coming, but that pattern has already been set.
Eze. 20:11,12 says, "I gave them my laws and showed them my rulings; if a person obeys them, he will have life through them." This turned out to be impossible. Not one was saved by obeying them. Imperfect man just can't always obey such perfect laws. God saved them by grace because they believed in the coming Redeemer, just as we are saved by grace because we believe the Redeemer came. Verse 12 says, "I gave them my shabbats as a SIGN BETWEEN ME AND THEM, so that they would know that I, ADONAI (lit., YHVH, Yah Veh), am the one who makes them holy."
Ex. 31:13 says, "'Tell the people of Israel, 'You are to observe my Shabbats; for this is A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND YOU THROUGH ALL YOUR GENERATIONS; so that you will know that I am ADONAI (Yah Veh), who sets you apart for me. Therefore you are to keep my Shabbat, because it is set apart for you. Verse 15 makes it clear that "the seventh day is Shabbat, for complete rest, set apart for ADONAI (Yah Veh)."
Ex. 35:2 says, "On six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is to be a holy day for you, a Shabbat of complete rest IN HONOR OF ADONAI (Yah Veh)." Each in our own way, we all need to honor Yah Veh.
Isa. 44:6 says, "Thus says ADONAI (Yah Veh), Israel's King AND REDEEMER, ADONAI-Tzva'ot (Yah Veh of hosts): 'I am the first, and I am the last; besides me there is no God."
In Rev. 22:13, Yah Shua said, "I am the 'A' and the 'Z,' the First (Yah Veh king of Israel) and the Last (Yah Veh of hosts), the Beginning and the End.'"
I Cor. 5:19 says, "God (i.e., Yah Veh) in the Messiah (Yah Shua) was reconciling mankind to himself." Yah Shua literally did come in the name of his Father. Translations do not always make that clear.
Every promise Yah Veh gave to Abraham and his descendants will come true. It is a priviledge to be one of his descendants. Shalom
Thank you for your quick reply to my query. I do appreciate communicating with others who have a focus, love and expectancy regarding the Word that became Flesh.
I have been given the verses and explanations you offered by others with whom I have been in very close fellowship and with whom I have labored for the sake of the Gospel for many years. Time and space do not allow for any point-by-point reply, but I would like to make one observation/suggestion and ask one question.
First, just a note of thanks and possibly instruction. Thank you for addressing HaShem (The Name) in deference to my particular beliefs. Let me point out, however, and for the sake of any communication you may have with unbelieving Jews or even certain Messianics, that any attempt to Anglicize or otherwise transliterate the name of Adonai...which, in the Hebrew, is spelled with a yude, a hay, a vav and a another hay (I wish I had Hebrew text capabilities in this software)...is most likely very offensive. Ya Vey, which is very close to Yahweh, and Jehovah, particularly, are all attempts which probably are more harmful than helpful. You were correct to refer to HaShem as Adonai. That is the "default" name/title used whenever those four letters appear in Torah. More believers need your spirit, nonetheless. I, personally, am not offended.
Secondly, when you said:
"Each in our own way, we all need to honor Yah Veh." And.. "We are free today to worship on any day we choose." I feel the need to ask, what happened to the fourth commandment? This is especially critical when faced with such passages as Deut. 10:12-13; Eccl. 12:13-14; Mat. 5:17-19; 7:21-23; Heb.10:23-31; James 1:25, as well as many other places in both "testaments." Just wonderin'...Shalom
My reply > Thank you for addressing HaShem (The Name) in deference to my particular beliefs.
I think we should follow Sha'ul's (Paul's) example as far as possible. In I Cor. 9:19-22, in the Complete Jewish Bible, Paul said, "For although I am a free man, not bound to do anyone's bidding, I have made myself a slave to all in order to win as many people as possible. That is, with Jews, what I did was put myself in the position of a Jew, in order to win Jews. With people in subjection to a legalistic perversion of the Torah, I put myself in the position of someone under such legalism, in order to win those under this legalism, even though I myself am not in subjection to a legalistic perversion of the Torah. With those who live outside the framework of Torah, I put myself in the position of someone outside the Torah in order to win those outside the Torah--although I myself am not outside the framework of God's Torah but within the framework of Torah as upheld by the Messiah. With the 'weak' I became 'weak,' in order to win the 'weak.' With all kinds of people I have become all kinds of things, so that in all kinds of circumstances I might save at least some of them."
I understand and respect your decision, and I am not trying to convince you to change. The Lord knows the intents of our hearts, so we will be fine in the end. However, for me, I would very much like to know what the original really said. Nearly all translations have hidden the names God gave us in Scripture. It is not restricted to Jewish translations at all.
What appears as "God" in the King James Version could have been El, Eli, Elah, or Elohim. I would rather know that Almighty God was El Shaddai; that Most High, or most high God, was El Elyon; that everlasting God was El Olam; that LORD God was YHVH Elohim; that Lord GOD was Adonai YHVH; and that LORD of hosts was YHVH Sabaoth, or YHVH Tzva'ot.
YHVH is translated LORD in the King James Version. It is translated ADONAI, which means my Lord, in the Complete Jewish Bible--no real difference. Neither is completely true to the original. How could we even know where YHVH was shortened to YH (or Yah).
Where this kind of subtle change matters greatly is in realizing that Yeshua (Y'shua or Yah Shua) came in his Father's name. Jn. 5:43 (CJB) says, "I have come in my Father's name, and you don't accept me; if someone else comes in his own name, him you will accept."
If neither his real name or his Father's real name is obvious to casual readers in our translations, something important can be missed. Which of these versions of Mt. 1:21 is the clearest to bring out the truth that Yeshua came in his Father's name? Yah is short for YHVH. Shua means save.
KJV: "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."
CJB: "She will give birth to a son, and you are to name him Yeshua [which means 'ADONAI saves,'] because he will save his people from their sins."
exeGesis Bible: "she is to birth a son: and you, call his name Yah Shua: for he saves his people from their sins."
I think due to Greek not having a "y," the KJV is the least clear in making this connection. But, translating is a tough job.
The 70 (or 72) who translated the Septuagint, put Jesus for Joshua in Zech. 3:8,9. It says, "Hear now, Jesus the high priest, thou, and thy neighbors that are sitting before thee: for they are diviners (mowpheth, men who in their persons shadow forth future events), for, behold, I bring forth my servant The Branch. For as for the stone which I have set before the face of Jesus, on the one stone are seven eyes." It does speak of Jesus symbolically, so it was a fortunate choice.
The exeGesis Bible has, "Hear I beseech, O Yah Shua the great priest--you and your friends sitting at your face: for they are men of omens: for behold, I bring forth my servant the SPROUT. For behold, the stone I give at the face of Yah Shua; on one stone are seven eyes: behold, I engrave the engraving--an oracle of Yah Veh Sabaoth."
Scripture (OT) was written with no vowels, spaces or punctuation, although vowel points were added later to the Masoretic text. No translation is perfect, but they are trustworthy. Just as the translator must do the best he can to supply the vowels in ordinary words, he must do the best he can to supply the vowels in the Lord's name so it can be pronounced instead of spelled. In YH, he must choose between Yah, Yeh, Yih, Yoh, or Yuh. From the Hebrew, the Messiah's name could be Y'hoshua (Joshua). I can appreciate why it is often expressed as Y'shua. Yah Shua, Y'shua or Yeshua seem pretty close when spoken.
What I am getting at is this. Since every word had to have vowels supplied by the reader, I personally do not see it as such a fearsome thing to supply vowels in the Lord's name so we can pronounce it instead of spell it. The Lord knows what we mean in any language.
I have been mulling over a Scripture. I am not sure I know to what it refers. The Dead Sea Scrolls, some dating back to the middle of the 3rd century BCE, have shown us that our scriptures have been preserved with astonishing accuracy. Then to what is Jer. 8:4,8,9 referring? In the CJB, it says, "You are to tell them that ADONAI says...How can you say, 'We are wise; ADONAI'S Torah is with us,' when in fact the lying pen of the scribes has turned it into falsehood. The wise are put to shame, alarmed, entrapped. They have rejected the word of ADONAI, so what wisdom do they have?"
The Dead Sea Scroll Bible says, "Then you shall say to them, Thus says the LORD...How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But See, the false pen of the scribes has handled it falsely. The wise men are put to shame, they are dismayed and taken. See, they have rejected the word of the LORD; what kind of wisdom is in them?"
The exeGesis Bible says, "And you say to them, Thus says Yah Veh...How say you, We are wise and the torah of Yah Veh is with us? Behold, surely it works falsehood; the false stylus of the scribes works falsehood. The wise shame: they are dismayed and captured: behold, they spurn the word of Yah Veh; and what wisdom is in them?"
Any light you can shed on this will be appreciated.
> I feel the need to ask, what happened to the fourth commandment? This is
> especially critical when faced with such passages as Deut. 10:12-13; Eccl.
> 12:13-14; Mat. 5:17-19; 7:21-23; Heb.10:23-31; James 1:25
De. 10:12,13 (CJB) says, "So now, Isra'el, all that ADONAI your God asks from you is to fear ADONAI your God, follow all his ways, love him and serve ADONAI your God with all your heart and all your being; to obey, for your own good, the mitzvot (commandments) and regulations of ADONAI which I am giving you today."
Israel was given the law so mankind would know what God considered sin. Gal. 3:19-26 (CJB) says, "So then, why the legal part of the Torah? It was added in order to create transgressions, until the coming of the seed (Yeshua) about whom the promise had been made (Gen. 3:15). Moreover, it was handed down through angels and a mediator. Now a mediator implies more than one, but God is one (De. 6:4). Does this mean that the legal part of the Torah stands in opposition to God's promises? Heaven forbid! For if the legal part of the Torah which God gave had had in itself the power to give life, then righteousness really would have come by legalistically following such a Torah. But instead, the Tanakh shuts up everything under sin; so that what had been promised might be given, on the ground of Yeshua the Messiah's trusting faithfulness, to those who continue trustingly faithful. Now before the time for this trusting faithfulness came, we were imprisoned in subjection to the system which results from perverting the Torah into legalism, kept under guard until this yet-to-come trusting faithfulness would be revealed. Accordingly, the Torah functioned as a custodian until the Messiah came, so that we might be declared righteous on the ground of trusting and being faithful. But now that the time for this trusting faithfulness has come, we are no longer under a custodian. For in union with the Messiah, you are all children of God through this trusting faithfulness; because as many of you as were immersed into the Messiah have clothed yourselves with the Messiah, in whom there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor freeman, neither male nor female; for in union with the Messiah Yeshua, you are all one. Also, if you belong to the Messiah, you are seed of Avraham and heirs according to the promise."
Mt. 5:17-19 starts off with "Don't think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete." Yeshua lived a sinless life according to the Torah. When his blood was offered as a perfect sacrifice, the way to be saved was expressed differently. Keeping Torah was too hard. One sin and one was disqualified. Not one man was ever saved by the Torah. Jas. 2:10 says, "For a person who keeps the whole Torah, yet stumbles at one point, has become guilty of breaking them all." What it did was put all under the condemnation of sin. At that point, man needed a Saviour badly. After the Resurrection, salvation was wrapped up in this question: "Tell me your view concerning the Messiah: whose son is he?" (Mt. 22:43). This son business was not really new, either. Prov. 30:4 said, "Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has cupped the wind in the palms of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who established all the ends of the earth? What is HIS NAME (YHVH), and WHAT IS HIS SON'S NAME? (Yeshua, Yah Shua, Y'hoshua) Surely you know!"
In Mt. 22:36-40, a Torah expert asked Yeshua, "Rabbi, which of the mitzvot in the Torah is the most important?' He told him, "'You are to love ADONAI your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. This is the greatest and most important mitzvah. And a second is similar to it. 'You are to love your neighbor as yourself.' All of the Torah and the Prophets are dependent on these two mitzvot.'"
In Mt. 7:21-23, Yeshua said, "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord!' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, only those who do what my Father in heaven wants. On that Day, many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord! Didn't we prophesy in your name? Didn't we expel demons in your name? Didn't we perform many miracles in your name?' Then I will tell them to their faces, 'I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!'" This shows the danger of profession without heartfelt faith. We can't be hypocrites, pretenders. The Lord knows our hearts. We are either condemned by the Torah, or we are saved by the blood of Yeshua. We can't sit on the fence. In Mt. 23:25,26, Yeshua said, "Woe to you hypocritical Torah-teachers and P'rushim! You clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. Blind Parush! First clean the inside of the cup, so that the outside may be clean too."
In Heb.10:23-31, we find that we are to "spur each other on to love and good deeds." Verse 28 says, "Someone who disregards the Torah of Moshe is put to death without mercy on the word of two or three witnesses. Think how much worse will be the punishment deserved by someone who has trampled underfoot the Son of God; who has treated as something common the blood of the covenant which made him holy; and who has insulted the Spirit, giver of God's grace." Verses 38 and 39 say, "But the person who is righteous will live his life by trusting, and if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him.' However, we are not the kind who shrink back and are destroyed; on the contrary, we keep trusting and thus preserve our lives!"
James teaches us to show our faith by our actions. This proves our faith is real. He said, "Avraham had faith in God, and it was credited to his account as righteousness" (Jas. 2:23). This was before Moshe and the Torah. Even after the Torah, mankind was saved the same way as Avraham--by faith, demonstrated to be real by actions. Jas. 2:8 says, " If you truly attain the goal of Kingdom Torah, in conformity with the passage that says, 'Love your neighbor as yourself,' you are doing well."
In John 15:9-13, Yeshua showed the difference between his Father's commands in the Tanach and Yeshua's commands in the Newer Last Will and Testament put in effect by his death. He said, "Just as my Father has loved me, I too have loved you; so stay in my love. If you keep MY COMMANDS, you will stay in my love--just as I have kept MY FATHER'S COMMANDS and stay in his love....This is MY COMMAND: that you keep on loving each other just as I have loved you. No one has greater love than a person who lays down his life for his friends." Perfect love has no enemies, is not a respecter of persons and wishes no harm to anyone. We should hang on to our faith and treat others as we would like to be treated. If we slip and sin, we should confess it to God immediately, so he can cleanse us of all unrighteousness (I Jn. 1:9). Shalom
Incoming Email FWD: Re: good post by Jim Bramlett on 5D recently
Author and Bible teacher Charles Capps poses an interesting idea. He is not dogmatic about it and only offers it as a possibility. I will explain, and elaborate.
Capps notes that Jesus lived until age 33. His physical body was on the earth for 33 years. If a prophetic biblical generation is 40 years, that is only 33 years of 40.
The "fig tree" (Israel) began to "put forth its leaves" in 1967 with the capture of Jerusalem, the Golan Heights, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Jesus said that the "generation" which sees that would not pass away until all be fulfilled. (He did not say this last generation would be a complete 40 years, only that it would "not pass away" or expire, meaning it could be LESS than 40 years. In fact, the first century typology occurred only 37 years, not 40, after Jesus' crucifixion, with the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.)
The church is now the physical body of Christ on the earth. Since the putting forth of the fig trees' leaves in 1967 and the biblical generation and countdown began, Christ's body has likewise been on the earth for 33 years, as of the year 2000.
Will Christ's body leave the earth after 33 years now, in the year 2000, just as it did before?
If so, when? Of course, no one knows. Technically, the 1967 war was in June. And Jesus lived until age 33 1/2. So even if a valid concept we may be looking at June 1967 + 33 = June 2000 + 1/2 year. But maybe not. Let us just keep watching and being ready at all times.
Just a thought -- a part of our continuing "watch," as we are commanded.
My reply Thanks. Yes, this is an interesting post.
> In fact, the first century typology occurred only 37 years, not 40, after
> Jesus' crucifixion, with the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70
I believe that Jesus was born in BC 5, seen by the wise men in BC 3, before the lunar eclipse of Jan. 10, BC 1, crucified in 30 AD, 40 years before Jerusalem was sacked. The temple was begun in BC 19/20. Adding the 46 years it was in building, brings us to 27 AD, the 1st Passover of Jesus' ministry. What throws people off is reckoning the 15th year of Tiberius. He was Co-Rex in 12 AD, Since Augustus busied himself with other areas, Tiberius was actually ruling over Palestine from that date. He became Sole-Rex in 14 AD. Thus the baptism of Jesus was in 26 AD when he was about 30.
> Will Christ's body leave the earth after 33 years now, in the year 2000, just
> as it did before? If so, when? Of course, no one knows. Technically, the 1967
> war was in June. And Jesus lived until age 33 1/2. So even if a valid concept
> we may be looking at June 1967 + 33 = June 2000 + 1/2 year. But maybe not.
They took the temple area June 10, 1967, That plus 33 years would be June 10, 2000, Sivan 7, Pentecost. That seems the more likely day to me than in December, in the rainly season because of Song of Sol. 2:8-14. This passage in the DDSB reads, "'Listen! My lover! Look--HERE HE COMES, leaping upon the mountains, leaping over the hills. My lover is like a gazelle or a young stag. Look--there he stands behind our wall, gazing in at the windows, peering through the lattice.' 'My lover SPEAKS (reminds me of the 3rd year in the parable of the barren fig tree, Lu. 13:6-9) and says to me: 'ARISE, my love, my fair one, and COME AWAY. For see, the winter is past, the rains are over and gone. Look, flowers appear on the earth, the season of singing has come, and the cooing of doves is heard in our land (Apr. - Oct.). Look, the fig tree puts forth its figs, and the vines in blossom give forth their fragrance. ARISE, my love, my fair one, and COME AWAY. O My dove in the clefts of the rock, in the secret nooks on the place of LEAPING."
Someone nice sent me the Dead Sea Scrolls Bible. I...have been reading it almost non-stop...
Hosea 6:11; 9:10 is very interesting. It says, "ALSO, O Judah, there is A HARVEST (Rapture 2, Feast of Trumpets) appointed for you, when I bring back the fortunes of my people...I found Israel like GRAPES in the wilderness (time of firstripe grapes, Pentecost), I saw your fathers as the FIRST FRUIT on the fig tree in its FIRST SEASON (at Sinai on Pentecost); but they came to Baal-peor, and consecrated themselves to the shameful thing." Israel as a nation will miss Rapture 1, which I believe is on Pentecost, but will have ripe fruit by Rapture 2, on the Feast of Trumpets.
According to Hosea 6:3, Jesus will come unto us as the rain, the former rain and the latter rain. These are His two Advents, Tishri 1 and Nisan 1. Think of Nisan 1 as you read Amos 4:7 (DSSB), "I also have withheld the rain from you, when there were yet THREE MONTHS to THE HARVEST" (the Pentecost harvest is in the 3rd month, Sivan). That could not be true of the Feast of Trumpets harvest. The rain starts on Tishri 1, Trumpets. Three months later would be winter, not harvest.
I also found it interesting that it was the practice at Qumran to renew the covenant annually on the Festival of Weeks/Pentecost (p. 197). The precedent would have been set at Sinai. I think the covenant of Dan. 9:27 will be confirmed on the Feast of Weeks in 2001 to kick off the Tribulation. This shows us another reason that day would be picked.
Incoming Email Re your Pro and Con 446: in your responce to the Orthodox Christian person regarding the date of the rapture, you state "Jesus went away on Ascension Day and sent the Spirit of Christ back to believers on Pentecost."
I have never heard of the Holy Ghost refered to as the "Spirit of Christ". It is my understanding that, as the Third Person of the Trinity, He is God just as the Father, and the Son, is God. However, from whom the Holy Ghost proceeds, the Father or the Son, is cause for disagreement between the Catholics and the Orthodox.
Please clarify your use of the term "Spirit of Christ". Thank You
My reply I believe what these scriptures say.
Mt. 28:19: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name (singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."
Jn. 10:30: "I and my Father are one."
Jn. 15:5: "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."
II Cor. 5:19: "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself."
Eph. 4:4-7: "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ."
Isa. 48:16: "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. Thus saith the LORD (YHVH), thy Redeemer, the Holy one of Israel; I am the LORD (YHVH) thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea."
Rom. 8:9-11: "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the SPIRIT OF CHRIST, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."
Phil. 1:19: "For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the SPIRIT OF JESUS CHRIST."
I Pet. 1:10.11: "Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the SPIRIT OF CHRIST which was in them did signify."
Heb. 13:5: "Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."
Gal. 4:6: "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father." Agape
Pro and Con 449 Or Return
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