Pro and Con 452

Uploaded 2-10-00

Incoming Email

Regarding the letters alleged to have been written by Pontius Pilate, consider that they are not known in professional theological circles -- at least not widely so -- and that they are not referenced or quoted by any legitimate authority as extrabiblical proof of the existence of Jesus. If these letters have really existed since 1928, one would expect that they would have been examined to the n'th degree of detail, and would have found their way into numerous works if they were considered legitimate. That is not the case.

Consider that they contradict the bible in the matter of the trial of Jesus. Pilate says in the final letter, "... he was bold and resolute, defiant, almost insolent." The Bible says the opposite.

Consider that the letter says the Pilate carefully planned the arrest and knew in advance that he would have Jesus executed. And after the fact, the letter has Pilate say, "I condemned him to death. I could, of course, do nothing less. All roads lead to that conclusion." I have no difficulty believing that Pilate would do this, but the Bible presents a different picture -- a reluctant Pilate who found no fault in Jesus and wanted to set him free.

Finally, consider that the letter paraphrases reports of Pilate's spies to the affect that Jesus warned his followers "often and in the severest terms that they were not to regard him or speak of him as the Deliverer whom all these Jews expect." That too contradicts scripture. While Jesus certainly did not intend to be crowned as an earthly king, He definitely let His deciples (and some others woman at the well, Mary and Martha, etc.) know that he was the long awaited Messiah and the deliver.

I agree with you that it would be hard to see how these letters could be faked. Certainly, no unskilled individual could fake these letters. HOWEVER, it would not be beyond the capability of a playwright to create a script such as this. It happens every day on the streets of Broadway and in the London Theater district. And with the differences between these letters and the Bible, I see a high probability that these "letters" are, in fact, a script for a one-man play.

My reply

I'm sure I don't know, but it seems that if they were authentic, there would have been an article or two announcing such a find. I haven't even had time to go back and read them carefully. Thanks for your evaluation. Agape

Incoming Email

I haven't written in a while, but I still lurk on your site when I can. You are still a blessing to me. A great example of steadfastness and faithfulness. May our God continue to bless you. When I first heard about the Pontius Pilate Letters, I called the University of Georgia Library and inquired about it. It is a legitimate book published in 1928 in both England and Canada, as a Roman novel. The book is by all apperances fiction. Your Brother in Christ

My reply

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Agape

Incoming Email

Hi, my dear friend. I have discovered that the "Letters" are not authentic but are part of a novel published in 1928... I had written to a gentlemen who posted them on the Doves website and asked him if they were real...after research, he responded that they are not. Sincerely

My reply

Thank you for following up on this and letting me know. Agape

Incoming Email

My Dear Sister in the Lord, Wow! I loved reading your testimony..'the Baptist Church told better stories from the Bible." I just wonder if those stories were Child Evangelism material. I was saved through Child Evangelism and volunteered many years there after, including many years in the inner-city of Baltimore. As I read your spirit filled pages, my heart was warmed. Really, I have not experienced that sense of truth and Spirit of the Lord, since my days in Child Evangelism.

I really don't have words to express my appreciation of how you have diligently explored the Word of God and how our Wonderful Lord has given you so many spiritual insights. Thank You for all the Blessed Work, my sister.

I do want to tell you one thing. I like to memorize long passages of scripture. My most recent one was Matthew 2: 1-15; about the Wisemen and yes the STAR! A few days ago on 2-2-2000 I was going through my Bible asking the Lord for a new passage to memorize. And then, yes, the Lord turned my heart to Revelation 22..last book in our Bible! I have a small horticultural business...As I am working, I will have some of the verses I am learning written on a piece paper and in my pocket. I study them all day long. Looking Forward to Exploring God's Wonderful Treasures with You....I have forwarded your pages to many people.

My reply

I appreciate your kind words.

I was a freshman in High School when we moved to Kingsport, TN. That was when I first attended the Baptist Church. Before that, we went to the Methodist Church. The Baptists opened their Bibles and taught straight from the Bible. When I taught Child Evangelism's Good News Club, I was married, living in La Mirada, CA, and raising two kids. Our son David accepted Christ at this club before I taught it. I took it over because the lady that taught it before me was dying of cancer and asked me to. She gave me her flannel board figures, but for some reason, I made my own flannel board. Later on, I passed those things on to someone else so they would continue to be used. We made the garage into a room for my studies and the Good News Club. Agape

Incoming Email

Leviticus 23:2 teaches us that the Feasts of the Lord are for all of God's Children, therefore how appropriate you have been examining this in the recent Pro and Cons.

For the benefit of any readers learning the feasts, there are four feasts of the former rain, Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, and Pentecost (Shavuot or "weeks"). There are three feasts of the latter rain, Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashannah), Feast of Atonement (Yom Kippur), and Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot).

Consider that the last feast of the former rain is Pentecost, which is the FIRST RAPTURE of 1Thess 4:13-18, and the first feast of the latter rain is Feast of Trumpets, which is the LAST or second RAPTURE of 1Cor 15:51-53. I had these two feasts shown to me in a vision over a year ago, and accept by faith that the message to me has now been revealed in Luke 13:30, which explains the way into the Kingdom of God. The Jewish people were the FIRST to receive a covenant of a spiritual relationship as a called believing people. The covenant started with Abraham personally and then reached beyond him to benefit humanity. Jesus proclaimed a LAST covenant with humanity, which included the Gentiles. This covenant is best illustrated in Heb 9:14-16, where Jesus's death on the tree poured out the "blood of the new covenant" Matt 26:28. Paul compared Israel to a domesticated olive tree that drew life from God's covenants (Rom 11:16,17). To deliver Gentiles, God broke off branches of the domestic tree (Israel) and grafted in "wild undomesticated trees" (Gentiles) that became fruitful because of the roots of God's covenants.(To deliver salvation to the spiritually barren Gentiles).

Hence, there are last (Gentiles) who will be first (first Rapture), and there are first (Jewish) who will be last (last or second rapture). Note that this does not include ALL believers, since there are certainly some Jewish Christians who go in the first Rapture, and there are certainly some lukewarm Laodiceans who do no go until the last or second Rapture. I accept by faith that this was the message of my vision, that the majority of humanity follows the way to the Kingdom of God as in the first sentence of this paragraph. Hallelujah to the Cross, and Praise and Glory to God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Agape

My reply

According to Unger's Bible Handbook, the former rain starts on the Jewish Tishri 1 (fall) and the latter rain starts Nisan 1 (spring). I think you meant to put it that way. (He wrote later that he did.)

In De. 11:14, the Lord said, "I will give you the rain of your land in HIS DUE SEASON, the first (former) rain and the latter rain." In Israel, the rainy season begins in Tishri and ends in Nisan.

In Hos. 6:3, Christ is to "come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." He came the first time as the former rain, which starts Tishri 1, first day of the Civil Year. I think he will return as the latter rain on Nisan 1 (Eze. 29:17,21), first day of the Regnal and Sacred Year. It is the Regnal Year because he is King of kings, the Sacred Year because he is Lord of lords.

The Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement and Tabernacles are in Tishri. The feast of Passover, Unleavened Bread and Firstfruits are in Nisan. Pentecost is the only feast of the 7 not in a rainy month.

We are wheat. Wheat is planted in the fall as soon as the rains soften the ground. It is harvested in the spring, and Pentecost is the wheat-harvest festival.

Since I think the Rapture comes when "the rain is over and gone" (Song of Solomon 2:10-14), it seems important to me to figure out which feast does NOT fall in a rainy month. There is one--Pentecost. It is in Sivan, 50 days after Firstfruits. It is still spring, when there are both green figs and the firstripe grapes. Agape

Incoming Email

The Lord told the people of North Shore Assembly of God at the 11 am service to read Psalm 101 and memerize it. It is crucial for the hour we are now living in and the presence of the Holy Spirit was mighty when it was given.I just wanted to share this with you all.It really spoke to me yesterday and moved me the repentance. Everlastingly living for him

My reply

Thanks. This passage goes beyond David to the greater Son of David. It points out that some will dwell with the Lord and others will get "cut off." We need to pay attention.

To the foolish virgins, the Lord says, "I know you not" (Mt. 25:12). Psa. 101:4 says, "I will not know a wicked person."

Verse 6 says, "Mine eyes shall be upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me: he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me." Those are the wise ones that are ready when the Bridegroom comes. Agape

Incoming Email

Re: the 2 asteroid impacts in 2007:
Are you planning to do anything special in anticipation or preparation for this event?

My reply

You bet. I am waiting for the Lord Jesus Christ to come take us to Heaven before the seven-year Tribulation begins. He said, "Let not your heart be troubled, ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions (dwelling places): if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know" (John 14:1-4).

He promised the church, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation (peirasmos, trial), which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown" (Rev. 3:10,11).

Here is how the Rapture will take place. The "Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words" (I Thess. 4:16-18).

I am hoping the Rapture will be this spring, on Pentecost. We can tell that the time is short. The Oslo Accords were signed Sept. 13, 1993. Already the date for signing the Final Status Peace Agreement prophesied in Dan. 9:27 has been set for Sept. 13, 2000, exactly seven years before the Day of God's Wrath on Sept. 13, 2007.

Those seven years of the Tribulation are the great trial that is to come upon the whole world. They are called the Seventieth Week of Daniel (Dan. 9:24-27). I expect the Peace Covenant to be "confirmed" by the Beast and False Prophet of Rev. 13 on the Feast of Weeks/Pentecost in 2001, beginning the 2300 days (Dan. 8:14) of the shortened Tribulation.

It must be shortened, or no flesh would be saved. Mt. 24:21,22 says, "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." The 2300 days, counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning, run from The Feast of Weeks/Pentecost in 2001 to the Feast of Trumpets in 2007.

There are two Raptures. The group "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9 are caught up to Heaven in the Pre-Trib Rapture. The "great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:9 are those which come "out of great tribulation" (Rev. 7:14) just before the asteroids impact Earth. Their's is called the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

Jesus told us, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may BE ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man" (Lu. 21:36). Those caught up to Heaven the first time are worthy to become the Bride of Christ. Figuratively, they are wearing white robes of righteousness. By the time the second group is caught up, they "have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Rev. 7:14), i.e., confessed their sins (I Jn. 1:9).

To be counted worthy of being caught up in the first Rapture, we must have accepted Christ as our Saviour. At that time, all our old sins are wiped off the records. We get a fresh start. After that, any other sins must be confessed to also bring them under the blood of Christ.

The Tribulation saints learn this lesson the hard way. They are raptured just before the asteroids strike Earth. At that time, they know what is coming, the sun, moon and stars are already being blotted out by smoke (Rev. 6:12). Small rocks are falling (Rev. 6:13), For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand" (Rev. 6:17). In Jesus name

Incoming Email

FWD: interesting post on 5D recently by Eric Casagrande regarding Sept, 2007

(9 Feb) "Rosh Hashanah 2007 (Sept. 12-13)."
Hi Jim:

...There actually isn't a discrepancy between the "generation" that saw the temple destruction, and our "generation". Both are 40 years and 120 days long.

Think about this for a second: If we measure the start of the last generation from the time the JEWS entered Jerusalem (June 1967), then why do we not also measure that long ago generation from the time THE Jew (our Lord Jesus) first entered Jerusalem, after starting His earthly ministry?

We know Jesus did not enter Jerusalem upon starting His ministry, because for one thing, the Bible states that after His baptism, He immediately spent 40 days in the desert, where He was tempted by the devil. In fact, none of the Gospels speak of His entering Jerusalem for some time. Instead, they describe all the other places in the surrounding countryside, where He preached the gospel and healed the sick.

Jesus did not enter Jerusalem, until about six days prior to Passover, after starting His ministry. As such, from the time He entered Jerusalem at Passover in 30 A.D., until the temple was destroyed in 70 A.D., an exact period of 40 years passed (from the feast of Passover, to the feast of Passover).

But there is more.

The Gospel of Mark teaches that Jesus went up to His final Passover in Jerusalem, SIX DAYS prior to that event. More plainly put, He entered Jerusalem, for the final time, on the 8TH DAY of the 1ST MONTH (with Passover beginning on the evening of the 14th day at sunset).

Now look at this: Take out a calendar, and count how many days there are from this date (8TH of 1ST) until Tisha B'Av (9TH day of 5TH month):

8th day of 1st month = April 13, 2000
9th day of 5th month = August 10, 2000
Using Jewish inclusive reckoning, that means there are exactly 120 days between those anniversary dates. Also, as you know this is very significant a number, since it represents a period of testing and probation (i.e. the time mentioned before Noah's flood). As well, there are a total of 120 of these "120 day periods", in a biblical generation (3 per year X 40 years = 120).

Therefore, a generation is exactly 40 years and 120 days long.

If you think I exaggerate, then consider this: What is the anniversary date on which the Jews recaptured Jerusalem? It is none other than the 28TH day of the 2ND month. Now count forward 40 years and 120 days from that point, and you arrive at ROSH HASHANAH 2007 (which begins at sunset on September 12, 2007).

Yom Yerushalayim: May 16, 2007
Rosh Hashanah: September 12-13, 2007

The difference here, as in the prophecy made by Jesus when he entered Jerusalem for the final feast of his earthly ministry, until Tisha B'Av, is ALSO "120 days".

Subtract 7 years from Rosh Hashanah 2007 (for the tribulation period), and you arrive at: Rosh Hashanah 2000 (September 19-20)....

See ya in the air, Eric

My reply

Thanks. Eric is to be commended for recognizing something significant.

Jesus did go up to Jerusalem at Tabernacles, but "as it were in secret" (Jn. 7:10).

The following does not change Eric's figures, but actually, Jesus spent Sat. night (Nisan 8) at Bethany on the Mt. of Olives. He entered Jerusalem riding on the donkey on Nisan 9 in 30 AD. The 6 days were (1) Nisan 9, (2) Nisan 10, (3) Nisan 11, (4) Nisan 12, (5) Nisan 13 and (6) Nisan 14. Also, the temple precinct was set on fire on Av 9, in 70 AD, but the temple itself burned on Av 10. Jer. 52:11,12 says, "Now in the fifth month, in the tenth day of the month...came Nebarzaradan...And burned the house of the LORD, and the king's house; and all the houses of Jerusalem, and all the houses of the great men, burned he with fire."

I used the Jewish Calendar and inclusive reckoning to count. Eric's figures check out, and this will always be so no matter what type of Jewish Year it is. The days from Nisan 1 to Tishri 1 are always constant.

Jesus entered Jerusalem on Sun., Nisan 9, in 30 AD. Jerusalem was under attack and was burned Av 10, in 70 AD. All those things prophesied hit "this generation" of Mt. 23:36 that began in 30 AD in 40 years plus 120 days. Nisan 9, in 30 AD + 40 years + 120 days = Av 10 in 70 AD.

The modern parallel: on Iyar 28, 5727 (June 7, 1967) the Jews took the rest of Jerusalem, including the temple area. The asteroid of Rev. 8:8 will impact the Mediterranean (Eze. 38:20) at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5) on the Feast of Trumpets (Joel 2:1-3; Mal. 2:3) when Jerusalem is again being attacked on Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 12/13, 2007). Coals of fire from between the terrestrial planets will be scattered over Jerusalem, setting fires (Eze. 10:2). All these things will hit "this generation" of Mt. 24:34 that began in 1967. Iyar 28, in 1967, + 40 years + 120 days = Sept. 12, 2007, and Tishri 1 begins at 6:00 PM.

Another correlation: in 70 AD, the Christians were able to flee the city before it was burned. In 2007 AD, the Pre-Wrath Rapture will take place sometime between 6:00 PM and noon. This Rapture is as the days of Lot, and "the same day that Lot went out of Sodom (burning) it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all" (Lu. 17:29). In 2007, only 1/6th of the northern army will be left (Eze. 39:2). There will be so many dead that it will take 7 months to bury the bodies to cleanse the land for the return of Christ in glory (Eze. 39:12).

The Tribulation is to be shortened to 2300 days (Dan. 8:14). Counting back from Tishri 1, 2007 by inclusive reckoning places the beginning of the Seventieth Week of Daniel/Tribulation on the Feast of Weeks/Pentecost in 2001. The Feast of Weeks is a very appropriate starting point for the Seventieth Week. The Rapture seems very near. Agape

Incoming Email

i have read your "pro and con 379", regarding the red dragon and the great tribulation.

do you have other thoughts on the dragon which you might care to share with me? i would like to learn your insight and understand your vision/interpretation. kindly reply if you would

My reply

I probably covered the subject pretty well on P & C 379.

All the 7 kings/kingdoms of the world are spoken of as heads of the great red dragon because they are energized by Satan, who himself is referred to as the tail of the great red dragon. As the tail, he works alone. It was the tail that "drew the third part of the stars (angels) of heaven, and did cast them to the earth" (Rev. 12:4). As the tail, he is "the beast that was (in Judas Iscariot), and is not (in man at the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture), even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition" (Rev. 17:11).

As the 7th head, Satan possesses the False Prophet in the middle of the Tribulation, who then speaks "as a dragon" (Rev. 13:11), but he is deposed from office on the Day of God's Wrath. That day is the end of the shortened Tribulation. The rest of the 7 years, the tail works alone.

Incoming Email

a few questions I hope you could clear up for me:

About faith:
I know that believing In Christ is what saves us and gets us into heaven. But what about the people who believed in Christ at one time in their life, but changed their minds and now do not believe in Christ? Are they still saved because they at one time in their lives had faith in Christ? Or is faith in Christ something we have to hold onto all our lives in order for it to take effect?

About the trib and ressurection:
When the pre-trib happens, both the live and dead wise virgins will be taken up. The foolish virgins stay for the tirb so they can wash their robes. But what about the foolish virgins that have already died? They will be raptured up with the trib saints I suppose. But they did not have a second chance to wash their robes. So will they just be washing their robes at the Judgement Seat of Christ?

About Saturn:

...The 29 elders are the ones taken up to heaven in pre-trib. And they are also the ones that get their own thrones and reign with Christ. Saturn has many moons surronding it. The moon count is about 23. But scientists believe that there are more they have not found yet. Could there be 29? Meaning the 29 thrones given to the 29 elders?...

My reply

> is faith in Christ something we have to hold onto all our lives in order for it to
> take effect?

One must hold on. Heb. 6:4-6 says, "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

> what about the foolish virgins that have already died? They will be raptured up with
> the trib saints I suppose. But they did not have a second chance to wash their robes.
> So will they just be washing their robes at the Judgement Seat of Christ?

I think you are right about the foolish virgins getting their resurrection bodies at the Pre-Wrath Rapture. However, seeing as they are ever alive, what would keep them from repenting before the Judgment Seat of Christ takes place?

> Could there be 29? Meaning the 29 thrones given to the 29 elders?

I have said before that I will not be surprised if Saturn turns out to have 24 moons, like there are 24 elders in Rev. 4:4. Agape

Incoming Email

From Singapore:
No you did not dream :-) It was really me asking you abt the postage. Thanks for managing this reply despite the odds. Marilyn, you certainly deserves all the accolades given to you! I don't believe I'm actually corresponding with someone so far away and whom I've not met at all. Your website continues to be a blessing to me & my family and I've share it with others so that they too can benefit. I'm now thinking whether my Pastor is aware of your site but I will certainly inform him on it (Perhaps he can use some of the discussions in the P&C as a springboard to help prepare his sermon) Love-In-Christ

My reply

Thanks for your kind words and for letting me know I managed to find you in spite of losing that email. Agape

   Pro and Con 453   Or Return  Home

Contact me for more information at:

send me e-mail now.

8641 Sugar Gum Road, Riverside, CA, 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110

© 1998, 1999, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 2-10-00