Pro and Con 454

Uploaded 2-18-00

Note: See Jim Bramlet's new web site: http://www.geocities.com/bramlett2000
I found Signs in the Heavens particularly interesting.
http://www.geocities.com/bramlett2000/signs.html

Jim said, "An example is the rare lunar event on December 22, 1999. On that date, according to "Sky and Telescope" magazine, three rare events took place in quick succession. An unusually bright full Moon, a lunar perigee and the winter solstice coincided within just a 10-hour period. The magazine said, "The 10-hour spread on December 22, 1999 is unmatched at any time in the last century and a half." Earth's closet approach to the sun was just 12 days later on January 3, 2000.  All this at the turn of a new millennium and just into Jewish year 5760, a year that has many prophetic implications."

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FWD: Vatican Information Service: CONTENTS OF HOLY SEE-PALESTINIAN BASIC AGREEMENT
VATICAN CITY, FEB 15, 2000 (VIS) - The Basic Agreement between the Holy See and the Palestinian Liberation Organization, signed this morning in the Vatican by representatives of each side, consists of a Preamble and 12 Articles. Article 11 states: "Done in two original copies in the English and Arabic languages, both texts are equally authentic. In case of divergence, the English text shall prevail....
http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=46679

Wednesday February 16: Israel Summons Vatican Envoy Over Alleged Meddling
JERUSALEM (Reuters-Yahoo) - Israel summoned a Papal envoy on Wednesday to protest what it said was interference in peace talks by the Vatican, which signed an accord with the PLO cautioning Israel to refrain from unilateral steps on Jerusalem, the Israeli foreign ministry said.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000216/wl/mideast_pope_1.html

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FWD: From: Temple Mount Faithfull Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000
Subject: A Covenant Between the Pope and PLO Leader Yasser Arafat

A Covenant Between the Pope and PLO Leader Yasser Arafat Against the G­d and People of Israel and Jerusalem

On 15th February, 2000 at the Vatican, the Pope and the leader of the PLO terrorist organisation, Yasser Arafat, signed a covenant against the G­d and people of Israel and Jerusalem. It was a covenant between two enemies of Israel who for a long time would rather have Israel disappear from the Promised Land as soon as possible.

According to this agreement, Jerusalem should be an international city based on international resolutions and an international guarantee. (The UN decided on more than one occasion that Jerusalem should be an international city.) They also decided that any step or activity taken by Israel to change this position of Jerusalem is against the law. The agreement also recognises a "Palestinian" state in the land of Israel and agrees on cooperation between the Vatican and the PLO and the Vatican committed itself to assist the so-called "Palestinians". Authorities in the Vatican explained: "the agreement paves the way for establishment of full diplomatic relations with a Palestinian state when it is founded". The PLO representative in the Vatican stated: "This is an historical covenant".

It is no accident that this covenant was signed one month before the Pope's visit to Israel. The agreement is part of the long-term policy of the Vatican against Israel ever since the State of Israel was founded. This is a continuation of the historical hostility of the Vatican against the Jewish people.

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I read Jim Bramlet mention how he found out about how a troy pound of Gold is measured as 5760 grains (also 12 ounces)...

A cube has 6 sides, 8 corners, 12 lines...multiply them...It comes to 576...

Interestingly, the city, New Jerusalem, in Revelation, is a cube, and is GOLD, "measured with a golden reed!" Does this mean that the measure of 5760 grains of gold points to the "time" of New Jerusalem?

Gold says 5760 (for 12 ounces, 1 troy pound)
Cube says 576
So, a gold cube would be screaming out 5760 loud and clear.

[Rev 21:2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. [--clearly, rapture language here, the bride being the Church.]...

[Rev 21:16] And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth...

looking at the math dimentions of the outside of a cube, 6 x 8 x 12 giving 576, meaning 5760, as in years, might point to the year (time instead of size) where we cross that wall into New Jerusalem....

My reply

Thanks. That's interesting. Hope you are right about the year 5760.

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Keep in mind your own comments from your books. If the Lord comes on the unwise like a thief in the night, the Lord will not surprise the wise. Right? So what makes us wise and watching? Wisdom, I believe, has nothing to do with being wrong until we are right. All that means is that we keep guessing until statistically we get the chance to be right. This does not make us knowing or wise. If we accept the initial premise that the wise will know when he is coming, then we will know for certain what the day is. So either we are not the wise who will know when he is coming, or the signs will be more obvious for us to ascertain when the date will be. "...As you see the day approaching...". Now this could be a general anticipation or it maybe true that God will truly let us know it is coming for those who are watching. I don't believe we know or can see anything yet that points to a particular day or hour (although Pentecost has many themes linked to resurrection and betrothal). If Pentecost is not 50 days after the 1st Passover and close to the harvest of wheat then I don't know when it is, although I do see the interest in searching after a second Passover meaning.

Luke 12:46: The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Luke 21:34: And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

1 Thessalonians 5:2: For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

1 Thessalonians 5:4: But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

2 Thessalonians 2:2: That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2 Thessalonians 2:3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

Hebrews 10:25: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

2 Peter 3:12: Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

My reply

> or the signs will be more obvious for us to ascertain when the date will be

How about the new star, Nova Velorum, appearing on May 22, 1999, Pentecost? It was in the sails of the ship ARGO (THE COMPANY OF TRAVELERS). Do you think it was a sign that we should take a good look at Pentecost? Also, May 22, 1999, was Sat., Sivan 7. It seems very appropriate that Sivan 7 this year will also fall on Shabbat. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mt. 2:28).

In 2 Thess. 2:3, I think "apostasia" should be translated "departing" instead of "falling away." It was translated that way in early Bibles. Agape

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Re: Actual Reports by Pontius Pilate
There does appear to be a legitimate source for records of true writings by Pontius Pilate in a report called " Valleus's notes - "Acta Pilati," or Pilate's report to Caesar of the arrest, trial, and crucifixion of Jesus." This is contained in a chapter of the book titled "The Archko Volume" or the Archeological Writings of the Sanhedrim & Talmuds of the Jews. This incredible volume is available from Keats Publishing, Inc., 27 Pine Street, New Canaan, Connecticut 06840. It was published in 1975 and is still available from them for about $15.

The book begins with about forty pages of serious documentation for the legitimacy of its origin which it states are from original mamuscripts found in Constantinople and also in the Vatican at Rome between 1856 and 1887 and which were translated during this period.

It contains in Pilate's report the statement that,'"Truly this was the Son of God." and that Pilate had become a Christian.

It also contains Herod Antipater's defense before the Roman Senate in regard to his conduct at Bethlehem (at the time of the cruicifixion); The Reports of Caiaphas to the Sanhedrin concerning the execution of Jesus and also about the resurrection of Jesus (and how he resigned as high priest because of his part in the matter); The Report of Gamaliel's interview with Joseph and Mary and others concerning Jesus (and that he himself declared that this is the Christ) and other reports.

One could rave on concerning the contents in the eleven amazing chapters of this book. I only write this so say that there are remaining today records from the beginning of the first century that do document reports and interviews that relate to Jesus life and death and this book seems to be true in every way. Finally the cover of the book declares "Translated by Drs. McIntosh & Twyman of the Antiquarian Lodge, Genoa, Italy"

I was pleased to learn that suggestions made in recent Pro and Cons concerning the life of Pontiuis Pilate were found to have their source in a novel.

I continue to enjoy your web site very much indeed.

My reply

Thank you very much. This book sounds interesting.

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Re: about your site I thoght it was kind of helpful on what it might be like when Jesus comes to earth but I am still full of questions about what it is going to be like when Jesus comes if you can give me more info on Revalations or anything about what it's going to be like please e-mail me...Oh yeah and good luck with watever bible studies you are doing!!!

My reply

...At the Rapture, "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (I Thess. 4:16,17).

At the Second Advent, Jesus will put his feet down on the Mt. of Olives, "and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south...and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light" (Zech. 14:4-7).

I have written a book, Revelations 2000, that explains the book of Revelation, verse by verse. Agape

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I spoke with you about a month ago and ordered your book "Heaven Found" and have read all three of your books and also much of your web site. Let me commend you on a great deal of work and your scholarship. However there are a number of things I would like to raise.

1. Why should a peace treaty between two peoples who both have interests in the land lead to worldwide catastrophe?

2. Assuming there is a peace treaty between Isreal and Palistine by next May 2001, does not your whole work collapse if there is not at least partial rapture before that?

3. I do not find anywhere that you deal with the Daniel passages of (an) anti-christ coming out of the SE portion of Alexander the Great's empire. This would either be Iraq or Syria geographically speaking. This man is said to overthrow or control at least 3 countries from the text in Daniel.

4. Daniel also puts this man as troubled and ultimately attacked by forcing from the south, north, east and west. It doesn't seem he has a world empire from that text. In other places YAHWAH SPEAKS of the king of Babylon as the "Ruler over all the earth," which he obviously never was.

5. A Evangelical biblical scholar, Stephen D. Swihart wrote a well-argued book stating that the anti-christ would rule 3 middle-eastern countries. His Book though slightly before its time, "Armageddon 198?" Haven Books 1980

6. Could not the Beast of Revelation be the much disputed Illuminati or Secret Government which is based in Rome, Europe? Their free-masonic, jesuit roots and supposed global control has extensive documentation which is not much discussed in the popular press. The ECU on the other hand seems to be based on all the GOOD things Judeo-Christian teaching has brought to the world such as an commitment to accountability, democracy, human rights, freedom and universal justice. How could this possibly be radically changed after millienia of development in the space of just over a year from now?

7. You believe the Pope will somehow sign this treaty with Israel and also take over the ECU. There is not one person in Europe who has ever said such a thing is possible and no movement in this direction from anyone. The pope held sway in Europe for a 1000 years and no European country would ever consider this again after all the trauma Europe went through already on this issue. Why will the pope have anything to do with the treat as there is not a shred of evidence of any thing is this direction?

8. You mention the leader in the middle-east will take over from the pope and move the UN to Babylon, Iraq. First, no one in any country, Christian or not has ever considered this. Babylon has several palaces which have been rebuilt and a number of guest houses there. But that is a far cry from the UN. Could not Babylon be a representation of Bagdad? In the next year I don't think there is a world leader anywhere who would consider moving even an embassy to Bagdad much less the entire UN. You still have not dealt with the Daniel passage which gives anti-christ sovereignty over 3 countries. I know Revelation speaks of control over all the world, but go back to Daniel and other old testament prophets and you will find God speaking the same say about geographically small countries in obscure places.

9. Assuming a comet hits Iraq, why would a medium size archeological dig be significant? Isn't it more likely that Babylon as a representation of Bagdad will be hit?

10. Who can conceive that in the next year a TEMPLE could be built on the HISTORICALLY Important Temple mount with two sacred mosques there already. How many Jews worldwide believe in going back to animal sacrifice? Maybe 2%. How are they going to convince the rest?

11. Don't you think you are going to have to interpret things with some thinking as to metaphor, reality and history?

12. Do you really think anyone in this world except Saddam Hussein cares about Babyon; bringing a WORLD CHURCH which controls everything there; and the UN of ALL nations being there?

13. There was a Seventh Day Adventist scholar and preacher, Hubert Armstron Sr. who did some interesting work concerning Israel of the Old Testament . Basically he made a strong case of this that the ten tribes of Israel which went into captivity, married within other tribes which ultimately settled within EUROPE. You remember Jacob blessing the two sons of Joseph (Type of Christ) and saying that Manassah would become a GREAT NATION AND EPHRIAM WOULD BECOME A COMMONWEALTH OF NATIONS. This never happened in the Old Testament as they were both just small tribes in a very insignificant unimportant people of the world. But the USA is a great nation and Britain has a Commonwealth of Nations. As a type of JOSEPH and after having already helped in the birthing of Isreal in 1917 and 1948, could these armies not be the armies of the just and righteous Lord who will save Isreal at the battle of Armageddon? In Daniel it says the "ships of the west will come against the anti-christ."

14. Could not these battles be ultimately between Judeism and Islam which are great antagonists and Islam as an enemy?

15. All these are thought I would like you to address. If there is no partial rapture in June of this year 2000,(only months away) you will have to rethink many things within your work. Particularly, concerning the Pope (who is speaking as almost an evangelical these days) and your placement of the UN and WORLD CHURCH in Iraq. Please share any ideas you may have concerning these things. Again I would like to commend you on your difficult and extensive scholarship even if I have trouble with certain conclusions you have made. Sincerely

My reply

1. The peace treaty in itself is not the thing that causes the disaster at the end of the shortened Tribulation. It just marks the beginning (Dan. 9:27) and reveals who the Beast and False Prophet are.

2. It might only affect the timing of the first Rapture.

3. The False Prophet could be a Syrian Jew.

4. We have to compare Daniel with Revelation. Re: the Beast: Rev. 13:7,8 says, "power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb." He is over both the world government and the world church. He rules 42 months, then the False Prophet takes over. "And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast" (Rev. 13:12). Also, the final king of Babylon will be "Ruler over all the earth."

5. We have to go by the Bible, nothing else.

6. The new world order people will still pull strings, especially before the False Prophet becomes Satan possessed Mid-Trib. Also, the ECU is not the World Government. Years ago, it seemed to be heading that way. Now it looks like it may be called the World Parliament. We are to watch developments.

7. I think the Pope will probably head up the World Parliament. Ten subsidiary kings over the 10 regions that this world has already been divided into will receive their crowns as the Tribulation begins (Rev. 13:1). Your reasoning about the Pope may not take into consideration that the Christians that would fight it are gone. The shred of evidence you want is Rev. 13:8: "all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him."

8. I think it is most likely that the World Parliament will be set up in Babylon. Lu. 12:16-18 may give us an inkling of what the Pope will do. The parable says, "The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully: And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits? And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater, and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods." In Rev. 17:18, "that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth" is Rome. In Rev. 18, it has been moved to Babylon (not Baghdad).

As for the 3 countries, when the False Prophet pulls off his coup, 3 of the 10 kings will not want him in the top spot. They will be "plucked up by the roots" (Dan. 7:5). At that time, this man is Satan possessed. He is not about to be stopped by those 3.

9. Babylon will be the costliest city ever built. "And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more" (Rev. 18:11).

10. God is omnipotent. What he says will take place will take place. At first, they might start sacrificing with just an altar while the temple is being built.

> 11. Don't you think you are going to have to interpret things with some thinking as to
> metaphor, reality and history?

11. No. If God says something will happen, rest assured, it will happen right on schedule. The reasoning of mankind is not always the reasoning of God.

12. They might even put the World Parliament and World Church at Babylon to keep Saddam Hussein in check.

13. British Israelism is false. Rev. 3:9 says, "I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie."

> In Daniel it says the "ships of the west will come against the anti-christ."

In what version of the Bible? The KJV does not use "anti-christ" anywhere in the Old Testament.

14. It looks like the final attack on Israel will the the army of the world government. Zech. 14:2 says, "For I will gather ALL NATIONS against Jerusalem to battle."

15. I'm looking for the "blessed hope" to take place soon.

As for the Pope, he will speak peace when there is no peace. Jer. 6:14 says, "They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace." Jer. 8:15 says, "We looked for peace, but no good came; and for a time of health, and behold trouble!" Dan. 8:25 says of the False Prophet, "he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many." Agape

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It has taken me 2 and a half years of "on and off" searching to finally accept in my heart that that there is a very strong probability of 2 Raptures. Your site offers very clear and substantiated teaching and I have enjoyed visiting it. What I'd like to know is, what are these "works" that one is supposed to do that will help in attaining that goal of being included in the first Rapture? Are they tangible things? Like Sunday School teaching, or regularly going to church or being a missionary...or what? Or is it deeper than that? Please let me know if you have any thoughts on that subject. Regards

My reply

As far as I can see, it is a matter of confessing sins as per I Jn. 1:9 so we can be filled with the oil of the Holy Spirit and spiritually be found wearing white robes of righteousness. Also, Lu. 21:36 says to "pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

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I have been thinking about your study on the new star Nova Velorum. I have been meditating on Matthew 2:10 'When they saw he star, they rejoiced with 'exceeding' great joy. Why, because the star pointed them to the Lord Jesus Christ. I suppose we shouldn't chuckle about these things, but recently my husband told me that the 2000 Census taking in the USA will go on until after the end of June. After the wisemen didn't return to him, I guess King Herod had to take a 'census' to determine the location of the 2year old children. I wonder what it will be like to be a bewildered Census taker the end of June, if indeed the Rupture is June 9/10??? Thank You for All Your Inspiring Studies. Looking Up

My reply

It is hard to imagine what will happen when a lot of people disappear.

I never heard of a census at Bethlehem when Herod had the children under 2 killed. Maybe he found out who they were from the temple records. Agape

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Today I spent time reading and enjoying your website and wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your work and your watching for our Lord. I too am saved, Bible believing, and Baptist who greatly longs for the rapture. Last year in 1999 after reading much on the web, I felt convinced the Lord would be returning, but obviously not so. It was even to the point of some shock and disappointment; but I know He is still coming and it still looks soon. Somehow after reading your site, I got the impression that you feel the Lord may be rapturing us in the year 2000 maybe summertime as it relates to the Feast of Pentecost. What an awesome thought! Anyway, just wanted to ask you personally if that is what you presently think might happen or do you have other thoughts on that matter? Again I thank you for your labor in the Lord. May the Lord richly bless you.

My reply

Yes, I think this next Pentecost is very apt to be the Rapture. Can't be sure, but Sivan 7, 5760 (June 10) seems most likely to me. I went back and put a subhead in the Home Page so it would not be that hard to figure out. You will see it right away. I have it in the main title, but that is too easy to miss.

It seems that we are running out of time. Because the 10 kings have not received their kingdoms yet at the time of the Rapture in Rev. 17:12, and they are crowned as the Tribulation begins in Rev. 13:1, there is a gap between the Rapture and the Tribulation. Surely, we can't be very far from the Rapture now. Agape

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From Finland: A relative gave me Hal Lindseys“s "Planet Earth: The Final Chapter". It is the first publication in finnish that I have seen that even mentions the word "Rapture". The concept is still virtually unknown to public.

I have seen in the net many that talk a lot about coming wars and russian attack, and even attack against US. Also in this book, at least half of it portrays complicated scenarious of wars - even one big after Harmageddon. What is your view about these wars. The Bible does speak about king of South and about disturbing news in the east etc. Is the tribulation period filled with war, or is it around the the end of tribulation and the Day of Gods Wrath?

My reply

I don't believe all I hear about an attack on US before the Tribulation begins.

I haven't read this book, but read several of his others. The thing that is a surprise to me is "wars - even one big after Harmageddon." I don't see any more wars after Armageddon at all. Satan will be chained. Here is the way it looks to me. The invasion in Eze. 38 is on the 2300th day of the shortened Tribulation. It is the Feast of Trumpets, the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. It is not Armageddon, which is between Christ's forces and Satan's. Therefore Armageddon follows the Second Advent, which is 7 months after the battle of Eze. 38 (Eze. 39:12). I think the full 2520-day Tribulation ends, the Judgment of the Nations will take place, dominion will be taken from Satan, and Armageddon will be his last ditch stand. Agape

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Updated 2-18-00