Pro and Con 455

Uploaded 2-19-00

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Re: Heaven found
I found your web site today and have enjoyed a lot of it but 'Heaven found' has totally thrown me as the work of a Biblical scholar. Not only did I find some of the scriptual references inacurates but to think that paradise/heaven could be on such an inhospitable planet, I found incredible.

In fact it has been described as a "hell-like" place, dry, surface temp of 800deg F, dense CO2 atmosphere and definitely not illuminated from within. You quote Rev. 21:16 in your theory, that heaven is a sphere, when the verse clearly states that the city is laid out as a square and measures it's length, breadth and height.

You will probably say your book clears these things up but I can hardly see how from your article.

I do not mean to be rude but I am in ministry and get a bit concerned about some of the things I find in the body of Christ. I am very interested in the End Times, and do feel we are to search the scriptures for understanding. Unfortunately a lot of what you find is contradictory, but it is important to keep searching, with the Lord's help for the truth, and as I have said I find alot of your material very interesting. This particular article has made me feel I must be very careful with the other things you have written too, but I guess that's the only wise thing to do with everything you research....

May God lead you into His truth. Kind Regards

My reply

> Not only did I find some of the scriptural references inacurates

Dear Heavenly Father, please forgive me if I ever made a mistake quoting Scripture. I have tried very hard to proofread every quote to make sure I did not make a mistake. I ask in Jesus' name. Amen

----, please forgive me if I made a mistake. I scanned it quickly and spotted no misquote. Please tell me quickly where it is so I can correct it. No one else has mentioned it. All quotes are from the KJV unless listed otherwise. In my book, some quotes are from the LXX. They do differ from the KJV.

> to think that paradise/heaven could be on such an inhospitable planet, I found
> incredible....In fact it has been described as a "hell'like" place, dry, surface temp
> of 800deg F, dense CO2 atmosphere and definitely not illuminated from within.

Wow! Please tell me why it is so hot when it is so much farther from the sun than Earth? Earth is only 92.5M miles from the Sun, and Saturn is 890M miles. I also wonder why it's light seems to burn through the hazy sky when one would think it wouldn't because other things up there don't.

> You quote Rev. 21:16 in your theory, that heaven is a sphere, when the verse clearly
> states that the city is laid out as a square and measures it's length, breadth and height.

The dimensions of the Earth can also be stated in "length, breadth and height." No matter which way you go through a perfect sphere, the dimensions are the same. Rev. 7:1 says, "And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth." Do you think the Earth has four corners? You have seen photographs, and it is round. What do you make of this?

Have you seen the astronomical sign of the Earth? It is a circle with both horizontal and vertical lines cutting it in half. It looks as if it has a cross in it. That is a nice touch to represent the planet upon which Jesus was crucified. Where each line intersects the circle are the four corners of the Earth. That stands for the four cardinal compass points, N, S, E, W.

The length, breadth and height of a ball are the same as the length, breadth and height of a box that the ball fits in. This is how the Holy of Holies in the Tabernacle represents Heaven. It is a perfect cube. The length, breadth and height, measured going through the center, are the same for a sphere as for the square box that holds it. Therefore the Holy of Holies is a cube that represents a sphere, Heaven.

Have you ever looked at any planet that is a square? No. As it coalesces, each particle tries to get as close as possible to the center of gravity. Therefore, it ends up being a sphere.

> This particular article has made me feel I must be very careful with the other things
> you have written too, but I guess that's the only wise thing to do with everything you
> research.

Of course. The only pure truth is the Bible in its original editions. Everything else has to be compared with the Bible.

Eze. 1:26 says, "And above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their heads (i.e., farther out in space than the 4 terrestrial planets) was the likeness (like and as are symbolic language) of a throne, as the appearance of a SAPPHIRE stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it" (i.e., this is the throne of YHVH of hosts (Isa. 44:6), the Lord Jesus Christ).

Isa. 48:16-18 says, "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me (YHVH of hosts, the pre-incarnate Christ). Thus saith the LORD (YHVH), thy REDEEMER, the Holy One of Israel, I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. O that thou hadst hearkened to my COMMANDMENTS!" Therefore, YHVH of hosts, the Redeemer, was the LORD that spoke to Israel at Sinai.

Ex. 24:9,10 says, "Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel (the Father can't be seen by man, I Jn. 4:12): and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a SAPPHIRE stone, and as it were (symbolic language) the body of heaven (i.e., heavenly body) in his clearness."

It took me awhile to figure out why a sapphire stone represented the Lord's heavenly throne. One day, I opened my Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary. Under sapphire, it said, "fr. Skt sanipriya, lit, dear to the planet Saturn, fr. Sani Saturn + priya dear." I pursed my lips and blew softly, "Whew, so it's true." I think Sinai must be from Sani too.

In the LXX, Zech 3:9,10 says, "behold, I bring forth my servant The Branch. For as for the stone which I have set before the face of Jesus, on the one stone are seven eyes (orbs)." That is 0000000. They probably stand for the same thing the lamps on the candlestick stood for. According to Josephus, they stood for the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. (Ant. III. VII. 7)

In Eze. 28:13f, it is talking about Satan. It says, "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God (both the heavenly and the earthly ones); every precious stone was thy covering (surroundings), the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the SAPPHIRE, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold...Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth (guards); and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the HOLY MOUNTAIN OF GOD; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire."

The sapphire is the 7th stone of fire, i.e., Saturn, "the holy mountain of God." I think Satan's planet Rahab was where the Asteroid Belt is now, "in the midst of the stones of fire."...Agape

Her reply

I am sorry to have distressed you. When I went back over your notes I could not find an inaccurate reference, only your intepretation of the scripture seemed so inaccurate to me. I still am struggling with the whole concept and I also thought the planet you were referring to was Venus not Saturn. I always thought Venus was the morning star....

http://www.csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/lect/saturn/features.html
http://www.pds.jpl.nasa.gov/planets/welcome/saturn.htm
These are two good site to see what the planet is like. That still confuses me as it seems very inhospitable as well. Scientists have known for years that none of the planets could support life, but we know heaven is a beautiful place, trees, rivers etc.

Did you know that for the Chinese, this is the year of the dragon? Last year it was the rabbit.

I really enjoyed "Body of Christ or Bride of Christ" by Joe Grant. I know there are other who think it's all over approx 2007 as you do, and there are various thoughts as to what happens between now and then, but it is so good to remember that as long as we are looking for His coming and preparing for it, loving and trusting Him now, He will take care of us as His timetable unfolds.

I really do pray God to continue to show you His plans for the coming years, as most of the church isn't interested. I know very little really but somepeople get quite upset and look at me as if I'm strange, when I say things about the end times. It is our Hope, not some weird doctrine, as you'd think by their reactions. God Bless

My reply

> Scientists have known for years that none of the planets could support life

I would amend that by saying, "Scientists have thought for years..." They are always having to change their views when new facts come to light.

> always thought Venus was the morning star

It often is. Any planet is a morning star when it is seen in the morning sky. Saturn is an evening star in the fall, but at Pentecost, it is a morning star. In Rev. 22:16, Jesus called himself "the bright and morning star" because his throne is there. Jesus told the overcomers, "I will give him the morning star" in Rev. 2:28. They are the church, so already have Jesus in their hearts. Therefore, this is referring to heaven.

> Did you know that for the Chinese, this is the year of the dragon?

I probably saw it in the paper, but forgot it. If this year is the year of the Rapture, it could be the year of the rise to power of the False Prophet. He is possessed by the dragon the last 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation. It may yet turn out to be appropriate. Agape

Incoming Email

Having studied your materials for 7 months (and loving every minute of it), I am meeting with my pastor in 2 weeks to discuss these things and to get his opinion as to whether I am embracing the "prophecy of the scripture" or "private interpretation." If the former, then I will feel better openly speaking of it in the church. If he views it as the latter, then I have a dilemma.

Toward that end, regarding the Day of God's Wrath on Feast of Trumpets, I have studied Joel 2:1-3 and Mal. 2:2,3 and have wondered how we can be sure it is Rosh HaShanah. Didn't trumpets sound on other solemn days (? feasts) (Numbers 10:10)? Could the trumpet of Joel 2:1 be the trumpet of alarm (Numbers 10:9) when Israel is attacked by the united nations army from the north and not have anything to do with Rosh HaShanah per se? Does "...one of them (one of the feasts) shall take you away with it" refer to Israel's destruction on the Day of God's Wrath? I realize those surviving will be saved in one day (Isa. 66:8) and it must be at this time that Rom.11:26a is fulfilled ("And so all Israel shall be saved").

My reply

> regarding the Day of God's Wrath on Feast of Trumpets

I think God planned when end-time events would take place, then put the feasts on those days. Surely the seven trumpet judgments will hit Earth on the Feast of Trumpets. Jewish tradition says that Tishri 1 was the beginning of the world. Since it was the beginning of the Jewish Civil Year, that makes sense. That the Millennium would start of the first day of the Civil Year also makes sense. His kingdom will be purged at the beginning, just as Solomon's was. Also, the 2300 days of Dan. 8:14, counted by inclusive reckoning, fit perfectly from the Feast of Weeks that begins the Seventieth Week of Daniel to the Feast of Trumpets at the end of the shortened Tribulation.

Joel 2:15-20 says, "Blow the trumpet in Zion (on the Feast of Trumpets), sanctify a fast (Days of Awe run from Trumpets to the fast on the Day of Atonement), call a solemn assembly (on Trumpets): Gather the people (Pre-Wrath Rapture, Mk. 13:27), sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet (chuppah; it is the day of the Marriage of the Lamb). Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them (the army led by Gog is attacking Israel, Eze. 38): wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God? Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people....I will remove far off from you the northern army (of Eze. 38), and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea (Dead Sea), and his hinder part toward the utmost sea (Mediterranean, Zeph. 2:4,5), and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things."

Because of the attack, the seven trumpet judgments hit Earth. The asteroid, "the great mountain burning with fire" of Rev. 8:8 removes all but 1/6th (Eze. 39:2) of Gog's army. It takes Israel 7 months to bury the bodies (Eze. 39:12) in "the valley of Hamon-gog" (Eze. 39:15) to cleanse the land for the Second Advent, "the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD" (Eze. 39:13).

Eze. 38:18-21 describes the effects of the asteroid. It says, "at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken. Surely in that day (the Feast of Trumpets, first day of the millennial Day of the Lord) there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (panah, face, i.e., the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30), and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. And I will call for a sword against him (Gog) throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD."

"And...thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel" (Eze. 39:17).

This agrees with Rev. 19:17-19: "I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings...and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army."...Agape

Incoming Email

I have read some of your information and I think your web site is interesting. Although I place tha actual date of the rapture "late" and the midnight hour I still pretty much follow your scenario. can I share with hou some very interesting insights from a messianic Jewish brother has shared with me in Israel? His name is Richard Aaron Honeroff. He has a book called "The Return of the Messiah the king of glory."...

There have been three kings over Israel Saul, David and Solomon, each served 40 years as king, however David served "7 years in Hebron" as King ofer Judah and 33 years in Jerusalem as king over Jerusalem (Israel)...1967+33 years is 2000 could Daniel's 70th week or last 7 years for our planet with great labor pains as a most new uniquie new son comes into full tem position? will he return in 2007 to take his rightful position his city? King of Jerusalem yeshua was 33 years old when he left the earth having paid the full bridal price for the purchase of his bride...He will be returning for his inheritance. counting years begins Nisan for feasts and for the reign of Kings After y'shua resurrected and rose into heaven most like 40 years later in 70 AD Jerusalem was Destroyed by the roman armies in 70 AD. Could (his) return be based on a 40 year reversal of what had gone on before? 2007 will be the 40th anniversary since the Jewish people recaptured their ancient city of Jerusalem in 1967 by 2007 the Jewish people would have been rebuilding Jerusalem for 40 years awaiting the coming of the real king and messiah.

IM reminded of Abraham who had two sons one destined to be the son of promise and Isaac this son of promise was 40 years old when he married Rebecca and Isaac this first born son of promise was 60 years old when Rebecca gave birth to the two sons in her womb Jacob being the next son of promise Jacob would later be renamed Israel by God himself.

Israel was reborn as a nation in November 1947 60 years later will be 2007 God said that Israel was his first born yet the first born son Isaac was 60 years old when the two sons were in his wives womb one destined to become the son of promise. Is 2007 the year of the birth into the millenium age for God's eternal sons of promise into this special marriage covenant with God? will God birth these sons into the millennial age, 40 years after Jerusalem has been recaptured? Jerusalem is very special to God for she is a mother to Israel and to Zion. Will Jerusalem give birth to these eternal sons of Israel

Please read Ezekiel 16:2,4,5,6,8, The Total purification time of a mothers blood after childbirth of a son is 40 days by torah law. The women would first be "unclean "seven days" and then...would then have to wait another "33" days for the full time of the purification...the whole process took 40 days...in this case this special mother is Jerusalem and the starting date is June 6th 1967 for this dount down and this special male child who will be born 40 years later is REDEEMED ISRAEL...

Are we seeing a reversal of this (7+33) 40 day purification process...leading up to the great Birth of Gods sons at the Lords return? let me explain: first give Jerusalem 33 years of blood purification (from June 1967 till 2000 and then give Jerusalem another (7) years of blood purification for uncleanness bringing the time to the year 2007 40 years since June 1967 And then comes the new birth into the millenium age for Gods eternal sons of promise with God fulfilling the promises of this covenant of Circumcision for his eternal off spring commencing on the year 2007.

Before she travailed she brought forth before her pain came she was delivered of a male child who has heard such a thing who has seen such a thing shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day" shall a nation be born in one day? or a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed she brought forth her children.

...he believes the rapture of the bride could happen in the spring on shavout but late in the hour not pre...there are two different first fruits harvest most people dont know about! one hasn't been fulfilled yet...shalom and simcha

My reply

I'm glad you find my site interesting. All I can do is give you my opinion.

> 1967+33 years is 2000

I think the Rapture will be on Ascension Day or Pentecost, 2000, Wed., May 31 or Sat., June 10.

> will (he) return in 2007

I think the beginning of the millennial Day of the Lord and the end of the shortened 2300-day (Dan. 8:14) Tribulation will be on the Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 13, 2007 (Tishri 1, 5768). There are 7 months (Eze. 39:12) between that Day of God's Wrath and the Second Advent on the following Apr. 6, 2008 (Nisan 1, 5768) (Eze. 29:17,21; Hos. 6:3). Normally, there are 6 months between these dates, but 5768 is a leap year. Therefore, these dates cannot be shifted a year in either direction."

> Could...return be based on a 40 year reversal of what had gone on before?

Sure. From 30 AD to 70 AD showed us that "this generation" of Mt. 23:36 was 40 years so we could apply it to Mt. 24:34 and our days.

> Isaac this son of promise was 40 years old when he married Rebecca

I think the Marriage of the Lamb will be Tishri 1, 2007.

> Israel was reborn as a nation in November 1947 60 years later will be 2007

How about 1948 + 60 = 2008? If I remember right, May 14, 1948 was Iyar 5, 5708. Adding 60 years brings us to Iyar 5, 5768. This span encompasses Israel's Declaration of Independence and the Second Advent on Nisan 1, 5768 (Apr. 6, 2008, the anniversary of the Crucifixion on our calendar). The year 5768 starts on Sept. 13, 2007.

> read Eze. 16:2,4,5,6,8

En Eze. 16:8-13, I find these interesting statements. "behold, thy TIME was the TIME OF LOVE...I put...a beautiful crown upon thine head....and thou didst prosper into a KINGDOM." This reminds me of Isaac being 40 when he was married. 1967 + 40 = 2007, and I think the Marriage of the Lamb is on the first day of Christ's kingdom, Tishri 1, 5768.

> the starting date is June 6th 1967 for this count down and this special male child
> who will be born 40 years later is REDEEMED ISRAEL

I think the remnant of Israel will be born in a day, Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007). The Pre-Trib Rapture will take place before the asteroid of Rev. 8:8 hits the Mediterranean at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5) to stop Gog's army that is attacking Israel. God never leaves himself without a witness. All Israel will be "born at once" that day (Isa. 66:8).

> 2007 40 years since June 1967 And then comes the new birth into the millenium

I think the millennial Day of the Lord starts Sept. 13, 2007.

> God married His wife in the Sinai and he remarried her on shavuot! at Pentecost!

...I thought the Jews taught that Israel was betrothed at Sinai, when she was given the ten commandments. Agape

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