Pro and Con 462

Uploaded 3-8-00

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FWD: Declaring the Palestinian State in September, Palestine, Politics, 3/4/2000

The Palestinian leadership has asserted it will declare the Palestinian State according to a timetable that does not exceed the September 13.

A statement by the Palestinian leadership following its meeting tonight in the in the West Bank headed by Palestinian President Yasser Arafat said September 13 is the scheduled date and for ratifying the final status agreement for the Palestinian lands. It added that this date cannot be delayed, urging the international community to move quickly to save the negations from a complete breakdown.

Ahmed El-Tibi, a member of the Israeli Knesset, urged the US to pressure the Israeli government to continue with the peace process in the Middle East, saying that the USA must be a compete partner in this operation.

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FWD: Re: Excavation in Babil province, which is also the site of the historic city of Babylon:

Ancient Iraqi castle discovered, Scientists uncover structures going back to Persian dynasties REUTERS, BAGHDAD, 3-2-00: Iraqi archaeologists have discovered an ancient castle dating back to the pre-Islamic era...The castle in Babil province, 60 miles south of Baghdad, contained many artifacts, statues, coins and earthenware pots...397 artifacts that dated back to about 2500 BC...

***That's interesting in light of the prophecies of the world government headquarters being built at Babylon.

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The Resurrection of Yeshua and the Festivals of Firstfruits.
Mike Gascoigne, http://www.write-on.u-net.com/weeks1.htm

My reply

De.16:9
> Seven weeks shalt thou number unto thee: begin to number the seven
> weeks from such time as thou beginnest to put the sickle to the corn.
> And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks [Pentecost]...

> In modern-day Judaism, the First Day of the Omer is always 16th Nisan...so that
> Pentecost (50th Day of the Omer) is on 6th Sivan....

Notice it is "FROM" the Feast of Firstfruits. I don't think it starts ON the Feast of Firstfruits.

Here is what Josephus (a priest, a Pharisee) said, "...Nisan...the FOURTEENTH day...the Passover...The feast of unleavened bread succeeds that of the passover, and falls on the FIFTEENTH...on the SECOND DAY OF UNLEAVENED BREAD, WHICH IS THE SIXTEENTH...they first partake of the fruits of the earth, for before that day they do not touch them...they offer the first-fruits of their barley...When a week of weeks has passed over AFTER this sacrifice, (which weeks contain forty and nine days,) on the fiftieth day, which is Pentecost...nor is there any one of the festivals but in it they offer burnt-offerings; they also allow themselves to REST ON EVERY ONE OF THEM...THEY ARE TO REST ENTIRELY" (ANT. III. X. 4-6).

After reading Josephus, here is the way I think when I count the Omer.
The Feast of Firstfruits was Sunday.
+ 7, The end of the 1st week of the Omer was the following Sunday.
+ 7, The end of the 2st week of the Omer was the following Sunday.
+ 7, The end of the 3st week of the Omer was the following Sunday.
+ 7, The end of the 4st week of the Omer was the following Sunday.
+ 7, The end of the 5st week of the Omer was the following Sunday.
+ 7, The end of the 6st week of the Omer was the following Sunday.
+ 7, The end of the 7st week of the Omer was the following Sunday.
"seven sabbaths shall be complete" (Lev. 23:15), 7 x 7 = 49
This puts Pentecost on the 50th day, Monday, Sivan 7.

> Yeshua was executed on 14th Nisan which was either a Thursday or
> Friday, and he rose again the following Sunday which was either 16th or 17th Nisan.

I think the crucifixion was Thursday, Nisan 13, 30 AD, the preparation for the Passover (Jn 19:14-16). The lambs were killed on Nisan 13 between the evenings, i.e., between 3 and 6 PM. Jesus died around 3 as the lambs began to be killed. They had to be roasted and eaten between 6:00 PM and midnight as the 14th began. We can't slip this meal over to the next night. Nisan 14 only has one midnight. It is 6 hours after Nisan 14 begins at 6 PM. I think the Resurrection was Sunday, Nisan 16, 30 AD.

> Paul had decided to sail by Ephesus, so as it might not happen to him
> to spend time in Asia; for he hastened if it were possible for him to
> be in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost.
>
> 1 Cor. 16:2-8. On the First of Weeks, let each of you put by himself,
> storing up whatever he is prospered, that there not be then
> collections when I come....But I will remain in Ephesus until Pentecost.

Asia means muddy and represents Earth. There is an earthly Jerusalem and a heavenly Jerusalem. Since Ephesus represents the apostolic church in Rev. 2, these are probably clues suggesting the catching up of the church to New Jerusalem on Pentecost.

> If the crucifixion was on Thursday, the phrase "after the sabbaths" in
> Matt 28:1 means the Passover Sabbath which was on a Friday, and the
> regular weekly Sabbath which was Saturday. Any non-working Festival
> day is considered to be a Sabbath.

I think the crucifixion was on Thursday and agree with the rest. All the feast days were holy convocations on which no work was done. Lev. 23:2 says, "Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts." Agape

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Ben Powell wrote: Re: You'd better repent
>
> Christ warned against date setting, HE said no one knows the day or the
> hour. If the time of the Rapture is known to THE FATHER ONLY , Acts 1:7(and
> others) then that means that NO man knows the day or the hour! Get it?
> I am a blood-bought, born-again believer, you are disgracing the name of my
> Lord Jesus and the Word of God!
> If you are born-again then use your time to evangelize the lost and leave
> the times and epochs to GOD.
> By, the way, all who are born-again are taken in the Rapture. Once saved
> always saved. Why? Because we can't do anything to earn it therefore we
> can't do anything to lose it (salvation). However we can lose reward, I Cor.
> 3:10-15. Being accounted worthy to go in the rapture is given to all who
> have been born-again, you CAN NOT earn it!

> > Ben Powell
> L.A.-Tel LLC
> Voice: 818-756-3236
> FAX: 818-756-3255
> Email: BPowell@latel.com

My reply

> Christ warned against date setting, HE said no one knows the day or the hour

Find me one scripture that warns against date setting. I have read every word in at least 15 versions, and most of several others, and I have never stumbled across it. Happy hunting!

The word "knoweth" in Mt. 24:36 is present tense. No man knew in the day in which it was stated. It does not say that no one will ever know.

> that means that NO man knows the day or the hour! Get it?

I am not a man. :-)

> I am a blood-bought, born-again believer, you are disgracing the name of my
> Lord Jesus and the Word of God!

I am a blood-bought, born-again believer too. I Peter 1:23 says, "Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently."

I Jn. 3:11,18,22,23 says, "For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another....My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth....And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment."

> use your time to evangelize the lost and leave the times and epochs to GOD.

You be the judge. Should I listen to you or follow the Lord's leading? I saw a rectangle of light on Jer. 50:2 that said to publish and conceal not. I have brought some to accept Christ. Also, I have encouraged Christians to repent and get ready, for the Lord's coming is near.

We need to confess all sins committed since we accepted Christ so he can cleanse us from all unrighteousness (See I John 1:9). The Tribulation saints are warned before the Pre-Trib Rapture, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." Those that do not listen and repent (i.e., wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb) now will need to do it during the Tribulation. After the Pre-Wrath Rapture, Rev. 7:14 says, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have WASHED THEIR ROBES, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

> Being accounted worthy to go in the rapture is given to all who
> have been born-again, you CAN NOT earn it!

"Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a CASTAWAY" (I Cor. 9:24-27).

"If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I PRESS TOWARD THE MARK FOR THE PRIZE OF THE HIGH CALLING OF GOD IN CHRIST JESUS" (the Pre-Trib Rapture) (Phil. 3:11-14).

To the Laodiceans (which means people of judgment), Jesus says, "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, AND HAVE NEED OF NOTHING; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and WHITE RAIMENT" (Rev. 3:17,18). If they don't pay attention, he will spew them out of his mouth at the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture (Rev. 3:16). Agape

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Sorry I haven't written for a while but I am still following your P&C"S avidly....I'm a little behind at the moment I have just read P&C 455 reference the 1st question regarding Saturn.

In Ezekial 28:13 can you identify the precious stones to the pertaining planets? Eg: is Uranus the emerald? Gold the sun? etc. Or are they listed in order of the planets Eg: sardius - Sun/ topaz - Mercury/ diamond - Venus/ beryl - Earth/ onyx - Mars/ Jasper - Jupiter/ sapphire - Saturn........if so where does Rahab go? I'd be grateful for your thoughts on this.

I was reading this to my Mother today and your words just showed me something I never considered before....I quote "The length and breadth and height of a ball are the same as the length and breadth and height of a box"....I suddenly saw that the new Jerusalem coming down in Rev 21:2 might be the planet Saturn coming into earths skies shining with YAHveh's glory - replacing the sun(which I think may have been destroyed ??). I always thought that the New Jerusalem was a cube before and to me that seemed ugly - but Saturn shining with Fathers glory and ringing with the praises of the Bride and the Body of YAHshua....now that seems to me like Heaven!!!!! Am I right in this or on the wrong track?

Hope you are well Marilynn. The new computer is prayers answered for all of us who wait eagerly to hear from you and ED - Praise Father for His abundant generosity and bless the man who gave it to you. Much love in YAHshua

My reply

How nice to hear from you again.

In Eze. 28:13f, I think the "stones of fire" represent the planets, leaving out the Sun. It says, "Thou (Satan, king of the rock, Tyre means rock) hast been in Eden the garden of God (both earthly and heavenly ones); every precious stone was (past tense) thy covering (surrounding), the sardius (1. Mercury), topaz (2. Venus), and the diamond (3. Earth), the beryl (4. Mars), the onyx (5. Rahab), and the jasper (6. Jupiter), the sapphire (7. Saturn), the emerald (8. Uranus), and the carbuncle (9. Neptune), and gold (10. Pluto)...Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth (guards); and I have set thee so."

Gen. 3:24 says, So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east (all planets rise in the eastern sky) of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword (the Sword of the Lord, the asteroid that will hit Earth on the Day of God's Wrath) which turned every way, to keep the way of (to) the tree of life."

Verse 16 says, "I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God (Heaven): and I will destroy thee, O covering (guarding) cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire." Rahab is number 5 of 10. That is as close to the middle as it could be.

Verse 18 reflects that his sanctuary (rock) will become ashes upon the earth.

I don't expect Saturn to come down, but holy Jerusalem will. It sounds as if it might orbit the Earth like the Moon during the Millennium. The "nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it" (Rev. 21:24).

There are a lot of details that we are not told. We will find out after the Rapture. I have questions too. I wonder if it is a home away from home during the Millennium, when we are to be priests and kings. Remember how one is to be put over ten cities, etc.

Whatever, we will ever be with the Lord. That is what is so neat. Where he is, there we will be. The millennial reign may be set up one way, and the rest of eternity another way. In all things, I love and trust the Lord. He says, "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him" (I Cor. 2:9). Paul was working for the prize of being in the group to get their resurrection bodies in the Pre-Trib Rapture. That would mean being a wise virgin and the Bride of Christ. I want to win that prize too.

PS: I'm very lucky to have the new computer. I told the man thank you and he said to thank the Lord. I thank them both. Shalom and agape

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I just heard on The HomeShopping Network Program on television that a sapphire gemstone CAN ALSO BE yellow or golden colored! I didn't know that, did you? Fits the planet Saturn in it's visible naked-eye color! I thought you would like to know right away! We are always thinking "sapphire blue". But it also can be "sapphire yellow"! Maybe you can correlate that somehow, somewhere? Maybe there is something more to be found concerning the SAPPHIRE YELLOW color in the heaven clues in the Bible. Yellow or gold HEAVEN CLUES....

You are a heart-warming lady Marilyn, I really love you for all that you have done and are doing!...

My reply

Thanks for your kind words.

> sapphire gemstone CAN ALSO BE yellow or golden colored

Thank you much! You just painted a beautiful picture for me and tied up another loose end. I'm happy.

I knew that corundum could be different colors, a blue one is called sapphire, a red one is called ruby, but I did not remember that it could also be golden. That does fit heaven.

This fact ties in well with "amber" in Ezel. 1:26-28. It says, "above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their heads (farther out in space than the terrestrial planets) was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a SAPPHIRE stone (sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn): and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it. And I saw as the COLOUR OF AMBER, AS THE APPEARANCE OF FIRE round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness (the rings) round about. As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about." Both the rainbow and Saturn's ring system are made up of ice crystals. Both will sparkle with all the colors of the spectrum when touched by bright sunlight.

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This is right? All wars except Armageddon are wars between humans on this earth. Armageddon is a war between Christ and his saints (raptured believers) and Satan and his saints (all people left on earth).

Armageddon lasts for 40 days and nights, beginning April 20, 2008 and ending May 30, 2008. On May 30, Satan is bound for the rest of 1,000 years of peace. At the end of these 1,000 years Satan is released, he gathers whatever people on earth he can, there is another short battle and he is cast permanently into the lake of fire along with his other fallen angels and humans that did not accept Christ as the son of God and their savior. Eternity begins.

Question about the 1,000 years - The people on earth during this time are Israelites who were on earth and "saved in one day," They are given the entire land promised by God. David is their "King." All believers besides the Israelites are in heaven and are given various jobs. They have the option of living in heaven (the New Jerusalem,) or living on earth and can go back and forth. None of these believers will join with Satan when he is loosed.

Israelites re-populate the earth during the 1,000 years. Some of these people become non-believers and these are the ones Satan calls on after the 1,000 years.

If I don't have this right, please correct me.

My reply

> All wars except Armageddon are wars between humans on
> this earth. Armageddon is a war between Christ and his saints (raptured
> believers) and Satan and his saints (all people left on earth).

Here is the way I understand it. When the united nations' army under Gog attacks Israel on the first day of the Millennium, God fights for Israel with the asteroid impacts.

About seven and a half months later, the full 7 years is up. Dominion is taken away from Satan, the god of this world, at the Judgment of the Nations. Then Armageddon breaks out. It seems to be between Satan, his angels, and the "kings of the earth" (Rev. 16:14) "and their armies" (Rev. 19:19) on one side and Christ, "all the holy angels" (Mt. 25:31) and "all the saints" (Zech. 14:6) from Heaven on the other side.

> At the end of these 1,000 years Satan is released,
> he gathers whatever people on earth he can, there is another short battle

This battle is never fought. Satan will "gather them together to battle" (Rev. 20:8), but fire will come down and devour them.

> Israelites who were on earth and "saved in one day," They
> are given the entire land promised by God.

They and the resurrected Israelites that are to live on Earth.

> They have the option of living in heaven (the New Jerusalem,) or
> living on earth and can go back and forth.

I know of no scripture that says we can live on Earth, except during the initial setting up of the Millennial government. Our home is heavenly. We literally rule with him epi, OVER the Earth (Rev. 5:10). When he returns to the heavenly home, so do we. Where he is, there we are also. Agape

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Re: what do you think of this? From URL http://www.pacinst.com/worldend.htm

Revelation 8:1 tells us that there will soon be silence in heaven: "And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour." Why do you suppose there will be silence in heaven, which is usually bustling with activity? Matthew 25:31 answers this question: "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory." When Christ returns to this earth, He brings all the holy angels with Him. Heaven, therefore, is completely empty; this is the reason for the silence. In Bible prophecy one day represents one year of actual time. The time period, therefore, represented by the half hour of this verse is about one week. (One-half hour is one-48th of a day; one-48th of a year is approximately one week.) Heaven will be empty for about one week of actual time. This is the time that Christ and all the holy angels will spend in coming to the earth from heaven, gathering all the righteous people, both dead and alive, and then returning to heaven again.

My reply

The silence of about half an hour is on the Day of God's Wrath, 7 months BEFORE the Second Advent. It is just before the seven angels are given the seven trumpets. I think it is while Christ is being seated as judge at the Judgment Seat of Christ. In heaven, the silence is out of respect. On Earth, the Pre-Wrath Rapture has just taken place. Men know the asteroid is coming toward Earth. Many have their hands on their sides like a woman in labor as they realize the enormity of what is coming. Men's hearts are failing them for fear. They are silent, aghast at the prospect of an asteroid impact big enough to destroy civilization as we know it.

I visited this web site. The "Creation of Rock in Three Minutes" file is very interesting. I had not run into that before. Then I read all of "How the World will End." I had to laugh. Some things are pure imagination on his part. Here are a few other samples of things that I disagreed with. My comments are interspersed.

It does not take much imagination to realize that the devil will convince the world that the little cloud is an asteroid, and that our only chance for survival will be to launch the nuclear intercontinental missiles at it to try to break it up before it hits the earth. What a welcome for the Lord, a salvo of nuclear missiles. This will be the Battle of the Great Day of God Almighty that is mentioned in Revelation 16:13,14, and Satan is preparing the world for this battle in news media articles....

***I doubt that Satan is this stupid. He knows the power of God. His planet was split apart. Also, the Great Day of God Almighty is 7 months before the Second Advent.

The bottomless pit is simply this earth in the broken-down condition which results from the world-wide earthquake, the giant hailstones, and other catastrophic events which accompany Christıs return at the beginning of the millennium....

***I think the bottomless pit is the molten center of the Earth. There is no bottom for from the center, every direction is up. Christ returns 7 months after the Millennium starts. He returns in glory. He does not return on the day of thick darkness (Joel 2:1-3; Zech. 14:6,7).

Revelation 21:2 describes the descent of this Holy City to earth: "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." The huge city, which covers an area of approximately 118,750 square miles, like a gigantic space ship comes down to rest on the earth on the site of the present city of Jerusalem. A great plain is prepared to receive the city as it settles to earth....

***New Jerusalem can't be put at the site of earthly Jerusalem. It would cover from the Mississippi R. to the Atlantic if put in the USA, and Israel is about the size of Rhode Island. Also, men are to walk in the light of it. It will probably orbit the Earth like the Moon.

The dead, remember, are not conscious of any time passing; their thoughts have perished, and they are unconscious, asleep in their graves.

***That is man's reasoning, as stated in Ecclesiates. In Mt. 22:31,32, Jesus said, "as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

***Heb. 11;15,16 shows that too. It says, "And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they DESIRE A BETTER COUNTRY, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city." If they were unconscious, they could not DESIRE anything. Instead, they are awake and thinking. Lu. 16:19-31 shows that the dead are not unconscious. They talk, reason, hear, remember, plead, see, feel, regret, etc.

***Here is a bit from his Armageddon file:

Verse 14 mentions the battle of the great day of God Almighty. Next, verse 15 refers to the righteous: "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." Christ is speaking in verse 15, and He personally gives His people a gentle warning to be on their guard when Satan masquerades as Christ. Verse 16 says, "And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon." Who does the "he" in this verse refer to? It has to refer to the person who is speaking in the previous verse, the "I" in verse 15. Who does the "them" refer to? It must refer to the righteous whom Christ is gathering in verse 15. The meaning of verse 16 becomes clear when one realizes who the personal pronouns refer to in this verse. Let us read verse 16 and indicate the proper meaning of these pronouns: "And he (Christ, who spoke in verse 15) gathered them (the righteous of verse 15) together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon." Armageddon, therefore, refers not to the battle of verse 14 but to Christ and the righteous of verse 15.

Armageddon, therefore, is the place where Christ gathers the righteous to escape the wrath of the wicked and to wait for the return of the Lord.

***There are parenthetical passages between the 6th and 7th seals, trumpets, and vials. This is between the 6th and 7th vial. Remember that Christ wrote his script. John recorded it. Let's go through it again. He said that Christ is talking in Rev. 16:15, but he is also speaking in v. 16.

***Verses 13-16 say, "I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon (Satan), and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, TO GATHER THEM to the battle of the great day of God Almighty. Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And HE (Satan) GATHERED THEM together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon."

***Satan and his unclean spirits go "TO GATHER THEM," (the kings of the world) to the "battle of the great day of God Almighty." Therefore, Satan is the "he" who "GATHERED THEM" to the height or mount of Megiddo (har megiddo, Armageddon, the mount of slaughter).

In v. 15, Christ is speaking, "Behold, I come as a thief." In v. 16, he is still speaking, "and HE GATHERED THEM." The pronoun "he" cannot be the same as "I," the speaker. The speaker is Christ. The "HE GATHERED THEM" refers to Satan. Agape

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