Pro and Con 471

Posted 3-22-00

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Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup
US: Talks with PA to aim for quick deal, By Janine Zacharia WASHINGTON, March 19...Israeli-Palestinian final-status talks will resume in Washington on Tuesday..."The primary focus of the negotiations will be to reach a framework agreement as soon as possible so that all permanent status issues can be resolved by September 13, 2000,"...

A small-scale model to be unveiled; a life-size restoration in the works. By Baruch Kra Sunday, 12 Mar 00 Ha'aretz

...Yaakov Sharvit...manager of the Tel Shilo site of the Tabernacle...recently completed construction on a model with modest dimensions of 1.5 meters by 2.5 meters. "With God's help, on the first day of the month of Nissan - on the day the original Tabernacle was erected in the Sinai desert - we'll have a dignified ceremony," says Sharvit...

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Thanks again for your insight and the nugget from Zech. 4:11,14 about Elijah and Moses. In your response you said, "I think that those that belong with the wise virgins will be in that group, and those that belong with the foolish virgins will be in their group. One of the attributes of God is perfect justice." My followup question, which you may not have an answer is, "If some of the Old Testament saints are in the group of wise virgins which are part of the Bride, how can that be if they are "Friends of the Bride"? By the same token, if some are part of the group of foolish virgins which will be a part of the group of the "Friends of the Bride", how can they also still be "Friends of the Groom"? If you have any insight on this please email me. Thanks. Your Brother in Jesus

My reply

All I can do is tell you how I think. Some pictures are given us as sweeping generalities. Not everyone fits the prototype. In Mt.22:8, "The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy." That is talking about Israel in general. That doesn't mean that there were no individuals that made the grade. We cannot apply generalities to individuals. There are exceptions.

Israel is promised the Earth, yet Heb. 11 mentions Abel, Enoch and Noah (Gentiles), plus Abraham, Sarah etc.(Israelites). In 13-16, we are told, "These all died (a generality, for Enoch didn't die) in faith not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But NOW THEY DESIRE A BETTER COUNTRY, that is, an HEAVENLY: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them (both Gentiles and Israelites) a city."

In the scene in Heaven in Rev. 4 and 5, we see 24 elders seated on thrones around the Lord's throne. I think half are the 12 patriarchs of Israel, and the other half are the 12 Israelite apostles. Half of the elders are out of the old covenant, half out of the new. Those 24 Israelites are the Representatives of a host of saints "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" (Rev. 5:9).

I think the OT saints, except the rest of the sheaf that was resurrected on Firstfruits in 30 AD, are resurrected at the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture. The OT saints are not all Israelites. Ruth is an example of an exception. Even at Sinai, there were some that were not Israelites that chose to accompany the Israelites out of Egypt.

At the Judgment Seat of Christ, I doubt that the saints will be judged on what their nations did as a whole. I think each person will be judged fairly on his own merits and be put where the Lord wants him/her to serve Him. Branches of the wild olive tree can be grafted into the cultivated olive tree "and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree" (Rom. 11:17). We are all descendants of Adam.

Lu. 14:10 says, "when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher." Mt. 22:14 says, "many are called, but few are chosen." Christ is the fair judge, and he does the choosing. Mt. 19:30 says, "But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first"--showing us that there are exceptions to general rules.

After the Pre-Trib Rapture, Christ is said to be "Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL" (Rev. 17:14). That's where we want to be, and that is when the 10 kings "have received no kingdom as yet" (Rev. 17:12).

The time is short. The world has already been divided into 10 regions. It won't be long before the leader over each is announced. Agape

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Re:The Bride of Christ
I am re-sending you these two e-mails (one from Jan. 9th and one from Jan. 24th). I don't know if you haven't gotten to them yet, or lost them, or what, but I am still waiting for a reply. Not that you HAVE to reply to every e-mail, because I know you get TONS! But I am still wanting to know your view on just who is the Bride of Christ, and what part does the New Jerusalem have to play in it.

I don't know if you've even had time to look at this message, but I've thought of another question that I'd like to add on. In his book, End Time Events, Charles Capps made the statement that a bride has no authority to use the bridegroom's name until the marriage has taken place. However, we as the body of Christ have been given that authority.

He mentions, also, in John 3:28-29, that John the Baptist describes himself as a "friend of the bridegroom", not as "the bride" or part of the bride. And yet, I see that Eph.5:22-33 is about wives submitting to their own husbands, as to the Lord, and about the husband loving his wife as "Christ also loved the church...that He might present her to Himself a glorious church.... So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself." Verse 32 says, "This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church."

I can see that as the husband and wife are joined, they become one body. And as Christ and His 'wife' are joined, they, too, become one. But again, why does Rev.21 describe the bride as the holy city, the New Jerusalem? Thanks, again!

Blessings to you and Ed. May God supply all your needs richly and abundantly.

I will try to express my question, although sometimes it gets so jumbled up in my mind, I can't find a clear way to say what I mean. The church is the body of Christ -- of that I am sure. Jesus is the Head, and we are His body. How can Jesus marry His own body? If we are the body of Christ, Who is male, are we not also male? In Revelation 21:2,9-10, it plainly says that the bride (the woman) is "the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God." How could Jesus marry a physical city? Rev. 21 goes on to describe the beautiful city, and I probably don't understand the metaphors and it is describing how perfect the bride is, but I can't seem to make the connection.

In Rev. 19:6-9, which is describing the Marriage and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, it states that the wife (already married) has "made herself ready" (she WORKED to prepare herself for the groom) and her works allowed her to "be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright". A city cannot 'work'. I believe that when the righteous in Christ (His church, His body) are invited to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, the wedding has already taken place.

So how could Christ get married without His whole body there? Who is Jesus marrying? (THIS PART I HAVE JUST NOW ADDED: And who are the ones invited to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb - the 'guests' if you will. I KNOW that they are not un-saved people. They are saved or they wouldn't be in heaven.)

Galatians 3:28 states that "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus", so I realize that both men and women are the 'body' of Christ. But a 'body' must be joined together with another 'body' to become 'one flesh'. So who is that 'other body'? I know you have written of this over and over, but I can't seem to grasp this. People say "Why are you worrying about this?" and "You should be studying how to live so that your good works will be approved by God". I realize that, but this subject of the coming of our Lord Jesus -- and (I hope)the coming of our 'Husband'-- has intrigued me for years; it is exciting to try to find the pieces to this puzzle. I love the OT, and see how important it is to understand its relationship to the NT, and sometimes this study consumes my waking hours (and even the night-hours also).

I realize you are not perfect, but you have studied much longer that I have, and I truly respect your knowledge of God's word, and your grasp of the whole picture. Could you please, one more time, explain, to the best of your understanding/knowledge, just WHO is the Bride of Christ Thank you SO much.

My reply

> who is the Bride of Christ, and what part does the New Jerusalem have to play in it.

The Bride seems to be the firstfruits, the cream of the crop. There are ranks in the First Resurrection (I Cor. 15:23). Christ, THE firstfruit (the all important "SEED" in the sheaf offered at the Feast of Firstfruits), next the rest of that sheaf (those who came out of their graves on Resurrection Day in 30 AD, Mt. 27:52), after that, the wise Philadelphian virgins, later still, the 144,000 Israelites ("for they are virgins...without fault, Rev. 14:1-5).

New Jerusalem is the home of the Bride. Rev. 3:12 says, "I will write upon him (the Philadelphian to be caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture) the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem."

> again, why does Rev.21 describe the bride as the holy city, the New Jerusalem?

Because she lives there. Christ also calls himself the bright and morning star because he lives there. In Rev. 22:16, he said, "I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." Yet Rev. 2:28 says to the overcomers, "I will give him the morning star." This doesn't mean Christ, for the overcomer already has Christ. I think it means Heaven, where Christ lives. After the Rapture, wherever he is, we will be there also (Jn. 14:3).

Who is in New Jerusalem? All the saints whose home is a heavenly one. The "twelve apostles of the Lamb" are there (Rev. 21:14). The patriarchs of the "twelve tribes of the children of Israel" are there (Rev. 21:12). Members of the Bride are there. The "throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him" (Rev. 22:3).

> Jesus is the Head, and we are His body. How can Jesus marry His own body? If we are
> the body of Christ, Who is male, are we not also male?

A group of persons is called a body in our language. Perhaps you have heard of a governing body. The Body of Christ is a spiritual body made up of a group of persons. Each of us is connected to the Head by the Spirit of Christ that dwells in us. Gal. 3:28 says, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.".

> How could Jesus marry a physical city?

By marrying people who are chosen to live in this special place.

> A city cannot 'work'.

The people in it can work. A city would be nothing but a ghost town without its people. A city made up of people can enlarge its borders. It can build roads, lay pipes and wires. A city without people cannot do that.

The righteousnesses of the Bride encompasses both the righteousness of Christ that is imputed to them when they accept Christ and their righteous deeds afterward.

> how could Christ get married without His whole body there?

I think they will be there.

> Who is Jesus marrying?

Those that are called, and chosen, and faithful. Rom. 8:14-17 says, "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ."

> who are the ones invited to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb

All saints should be there, the Bride, the friends of the Bride and the friends of the groom.

> a 'body' must be joined together with another 'body' to become > 'one flesh'. So who is that 'other body'?

We become one with Christ because the Spirit of Christ dwells in us.

> one more time, explain, to the best of > your understanding/knowledge, just WHO is the Bride of Christ?

I think the wise virgins are the Bride of Christ. They have enough oil of the Holy Spirit to be caught up when the Bridegroom comes. The Bride must be "called, and chosen, and faithful" (Rev. 17:14). Agape

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From Jim Bramlett
When the rapture happens, many will be LEFT BEHIND. I have just added an urgent notice for those left behind at the top of my Web site at

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FWD: Signs in the Heavens,by "Bob Wadsworth"
The heavens will put on quite a display of events from late March to July. The first of three equidistant massings of Jupiter, Mars, and Saturn will occur on March 25 in the constellation Aries, which with its decans portray Revelation 19:6 - 20:3. This is the first time that these planets -- Jupiter...Mars...and Saturn...have massed here in over 1,800 years....

The next in the series of three equidistant massings of the above mentioned planets will occur on April 11, and the third on April 19/20 (Passover).

March 21-26 -- The Pope's pilgrimage to the Holy Land and to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

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At work we have an ongoing discussion database. Here are 2 entries that appeared:

03/09/00 05:11 PM Double rainbow out side! Check it out!
03/09/00 05:22 PM All gone... sigh. Sure was pretty.

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thank you so much for your study on the parabel of the fig tree. I have only one freind that believes prhophecy is true and I am in love with all that deals with the LOrds return.I came across your web site thru a link if I remember right.Your work is fascinating and I have printed and given copies to many.Treasure such as this should be shared whether they believe it or not. I agree with all that you have written .You have enhanced my hope and joy in the nearness of the Lords return.The study on the fig tree parabel is so great! I cant thank you enough. Do you have a e-mail info type of service? If so could you put me on your mailing list PLEASE? I love you in OUR Lord Jesus Christ. GOD BLESS YOU!!!! THANK YOU

My reply

Thank you for your kindness. I don't have time for sending out more email than answering the incoming ones. I am way behind as it is, and I work at it just about every second I can. Agape, Marilyn

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Re: Pentecost 2000 or 2001
Pease help me.I am confused only about the rapture being year 2000 on Penticost or Penticost 2001?and the reason for the time space between rapture and tribulation? Marilyn ,I am doing my best to tell eople of Jesus ,but I want to go home desperately.I have the joy of the Lord in me but I feel so out of place and alone.People at churches I talk to clearly do not share my beliefs in Jesus return. I keep trying and they keep avoiding. All that aside I still look forward to our deliverance.Am I wrong? I hope you dont think I must be dumb,but even if you do,could you explain that to me anyway? By the parabel of the fig tree alone I believe Penticost 2000 will be the rapture. Thank you my dear sister in Christ our Lord. GOD BLESS YOU!!!

My reply

My guess is Pentecost, 2000 for the Rapture and Pentecost (Feast of Weeks), 2001 for the beginning of the Tribulation. There is some kind of space between the two. Revelation is written as if the Rapture were at hand. Rev. 17: 12 says "ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet." Verse 14 says, "they that are with him (Christ) are called, and chosen, and faithful." We are called and chosen at the Rapture. So the 10 kings are not yet crowned at the Rapture.

As the Tribulation begins in chapter 13, all 10 kings are crowned. Therefore, there is a gap between the two events. At the Rapture, the 10 divisions of this world that have already been decided on, still have no elected leaders. At the beginning of the Tribulation, authority is given the Beast over the World Church and Federation of the World. The 10 subsidiary kings also receive their crowns.

> People at churches I talk to clearly do not share my beliefs in Jesus return.

Don't let it worry you, and don't give up speaking about it when the subject comes up. The Pharisees didn't believe Jesus either. We have plenty of Pharisee types around. However, praise the Lord, they are not all like that. Some are really searching the word daily to see if these things are so. They are asking questions. They are more than interested. They are actively studying and seeking the Lord's guidance in every detail.

There are plenty of Laodicean types too. People are basically no different today than back in 30 AD. Some did not believe, but some did. Ask the Lord to guide you and show you who to talk to that will delve into the scriptures to try to prove or disprove it. If they can see it in Scripture, they are more apt to believe it than coming out of your mouth. Just try to get them to keep an open mind about it as they read Scripture.

The Lord warned the churches, "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt NOT KNOW what hour I will come upon thee" (Rev. 3:3). What will we know if we do watch? Turn it around. It would then say that if therefore thou shalt watch, I will not come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt KNOW what hour I will come upon thee. Try that one on a few and see what kind of answers they come up with.

If they say no man knows. Tell them that knows (or knoweth) is present tense. No man knew on that day. Jesus didn't say that no man would ever know. Noah knew 120 years before the Flood. He also knew more precisely 7 days before the rain began. That 7 days was so he could load the Ark. Raise the question, will we get a 7-day warning. Jesus told us to watch. What are we watching for? Israel back in the land was one thing that should alert us that the end times are near. The Sign of the End of the Age in 1967 was a big alert. Israel grew leaves (Sinai, West Bank, Gaza Strip and Golan Heights) in that war. She was 19 years old. That year, 1967, was the last year that the fig tree (Israel) could be considered young. The word translated tender in Mt. 24:32 is apalos, young. Only those under 20 were considered young at the Exodus. We are in the end times. Just the fact that the Final Status Peace Agreement is slated to be signed Sept. 13, 2000 should show anyone that knows their Bible that we are in the end times. Agape

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What is the reward for reading the Book of Revelation? Is it participation in the Pre-trib. rapture? Also, it has been theorized that the star in the sky before Christ was born was the conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn. It will be interesting to see what this conjunction looks like on May 5. Perhaps it will look quite dramatic, especially since more than just those two heavenly bodies will be aligned.

My reply

We are supposed to both read and keep. Rev. 1:3 says, "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, AND KEEP THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN THEREIN: for the time is at hand" (i.e., the time of the Rapture is at hand). Verse 1 says, "to shew unto his servants things which must SHORTLY COME TO PASS." If this is written as if the door opens on the anniversary of Jesus' ascension, the 10 days in 2:10 mean 24-hour days and end on Pentecost.

The word translated keep in 1:3 is tereo, guard from loss. The same word is used in 3:10, "Because thou hast KEPT the word of my patience, I also will KEEP thee from the hour of temptation" (the Tribulation trial that is to come upon all the Earth).

Rev. 22:14 says, "Blessed are they that DO his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may ENTER in through the gates into the city."

If he says to repent, we need to repent. If he says, "Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die," we should do that.

I just can't buy the idea that an ordinary conjunction of planets was the Star of Bethlehem. That star guided the wise men to the very house where Jesus was. I think it was supernatural.

The grand lineup of the Sun and planets that the candlestick represented (Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn), plus the Moon and 5 comets will be an unusual occurrence. However, we will not be able to see it because the Sun's brightness will blank out the rest. We will be on the opposite side of the Sun from the other planets. Agape

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Re: When is Pentecost?
The real question is when is Easter? A friend of mine pointed out that since Easter is the first Sunday after the first full moon after the Vernal (Spring) Equinox, that Easter should have been on 3/19/2000. But, because everyone says that the Vernal Equinox is on 3/21 regardless of when it really occurs, that Easter can never be before 3/21. Could this be the type of confusion that God wants to bring about to keep us guessing at not knowing the "day or the hour" of Christ's return?

Fifty days from an Easter date on 3/19/2000 brings us to Pentecost on or about May 5th which also happens to be the day of the so-called "Planetary Alignment" that all of the New-Agers are getting excited about. Just type in 5/5/2000 on any search engine and do your own research about this phenomenon.

If the Rapture were to happen on May 5th of this year, the whole world would be ready to buy into New Age philosophy and this might usher in the revealing of the Anti-christ.

My reply

Easter is set so it always falls on Sunday. I don't think we can count the 50 days to Pentecost by starting with Easter. The only way I know of to correctly count to Pentecost is to go by the Nisan 16 date of the Feast of Firstfruits on the Jewish Calendar. Sivan 6 and 7 are June 9 and 10 this year. Agape

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You said the 1993 peace accords meetings between the Isrealis and Palistinians and U.S. leaders (Rabin and Ararfat and Clinton) is the launching pad date to the Rapture of the church.You know the plus 7 years you usually refer to.Where do you find that in scripture.I was curious.Are you absolutely sure that was it? Also what do you make of The Pope's visit to Isreal? Does it mean anything in Bible prophecy? Yours Truly

My reply

I am not a prophet. I can be wrong. All I can do is tell you how it looks to me. We don't have a direct reference to Sept. 13, 1993 in Scripture. However, once we figure out that the Day of God's Wrath and the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord is on Tishri 1, 5768 (our Sept. 13, 2007), we can count backwards the 2300 days of Dan. 8:14 to see when the Tribulation begins, on the Feast of Weeks in 2001. Then we can easily see that the 7 good years and 7 bad years prefigured when Joseph was in Egypt started on Sept. 13, 1993, when the Oslo Accords were signed. They were ratified in Israel 3 days later, on Tishri 1, 5754. Tishri 1, 5754 + 7 + 7 = Tishri 1, 5768, which is Sept. 13, 2007. That is too good to be by accident.

Israel grew leaves (Sinai, West Bank, Golan Heights, Gaza Strip) in the Six-Day War and fulfilled the fig tree parable of Mt. 24:32-34. There is only one generation from then to the catastrophe on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord (1967 + 40 = 2007).

That period ends on a feast day. Mal. 2:3 says, "your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it." We know from Joel 2:1-3, and other passages, that it is the Feast of Trumpets. The Feast of Trumpets in 2007 is Sept. 13.

From Nisan 9 in 30 AD (Palm Sunday, when Jerusalem and that generation's fate was sealed) to AV 10 (when Jerusalem was burned) in 70 AD was 40 years plus the 120 days from Nisan 9 to Av 10.

In our days, from June 7, 1967 (Iyar 28, when Israel took the rest of Jerusalem) to Tishri 1 in 2007 (the day of catastrophe for this generation) is 40 years plus the 120 days from Iyar 28 to Tishri 1. Things keep adding up.

The Pope's meetings with other faiths just shows us how close we are to the Tribulation when all faiths will be under the Tribulation Pope's rule.

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Subject: Re: Latter and Former Rains ...about the rains and why they are turned around to mean the opposite. Do you have a reason for this? I wondered if it was because the calendar being reversed, 7 to 1 and 1 to 7, is a possible reason. What do you think?

My reply

The Jewish New Year is celebrated in the fall. Tishri 1 is the first month of the Jewish Civil Calendar. The former rains begin Tishri 1 (our Sept./Oct.). I think Jesus was born as the former rain on Tishri 1. The latter rains begin Nisan 1 (our Mar./Apr.). I think Jesus will return as the latter rain on Nisan 1, which was made the first month of their Sacred calendar at the time of the Exodus. Nisan 1 is also the first day of their Regnal calendar.

James, half-brother of Jesus, gave us a good clue. In Jas. 5:7, he said, "Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain." The word used for the early rain is proimon, which means autumnal showering. Opsimon is used for the latter rain and means spring showering.

In De. 11:14, God said, "I will give you the rain of your land IN HIS DUE SEASON, the first rain (Tishri 1) and the latter rain (Nisan 1). In Israel, the rainy season starts with Tishri and ends with Nisan. From then till the following Tishri, it is dry. In the fall, wheat is planted as soon as the rains soften the ground. This wheat is harvested the following spring.

Jer. 5:24 says, "Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, IN HIS SEASON." The Hebrew word used for the former rain is yowreh, which means autumnal sprinkling rain. Malqowsh is the word for the latter rain. It means gathered spring rain. Both rains are to come in "his season."

Hos. 6:3 says, "...the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and HE SHALL COME UNTO US AS THE RAIN, AS THE LATTER AND FORMER RAIN UNTO THE EARTH."

Joel 2:23 says, "rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will CAUSE TO COME DOWN FOR YOU THE RAIN, THE FORMER RAIN, AND THE LATTER RAIN IN THE FIRST MONTH." In the Bible, unless a day number is mentioned, we are to assume the first day of the month for the word for month also means new moon.

Eze. 29:17 sets the day of the Second Advent, "in the first month, in the first day of the month." Then verse 21 says, "In that day (Nisan 1) will I cause the horn (king) of the house of Israel to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD."

We know that Ezekiel went by the Sacred Calendar. Eze. 45:18,21 says, "In the first month, in the first day of the month...In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover" (Nisan 14). Agape

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