Note: The charter for the "United Religions," with the Pope at the head, is slated to be signed June 26, 2000. More in my 1st reply below.
Can you say definitively that there are no people on earth with the seal of God at this time? You've made a good case that the 144,000 that were sealed are taken in the prewrath rapture since they are a part of the Bride, but is it possible that there could be some people that turn to God during the wrath are sealed? It seems to me in verse 4 above that if there were no people on earth that have the seal of God, the verse would have read "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men that are left on the earth".
We take the reverse of Rev. 3:3 that says, "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee", to mean that if we do wake up, He will not come on us as a thief and we will know the hour He will come on us. But then in this passage in Rev. 9 :4 you say the reverse is not valid. It says that those that don't have the seal will get hurt. The reverse would be to say that if you do have the seal of God you won't get hurt. It just seems that that verse strongly applies that somebody is sealed of God. Do you see what I mean? Once again we know that there will be those that live through the wrath that turn to God and live on into the millenium at the separating of the sheep and goats at the judgment of the nations. Maybe God in his mercy, seals some of those that have turned to him to keep them from experiencing this demonic attack. What do you think? Your Brother in Jesus
There is some interesting news at: http://mercury.spaceports.com/~persewen/one_world_religion.htm
"ONE-WORLD RELIGION NOW OFFICIALLY BORN!!
A SPIRITUAL EQUIVALENT TO THE UNITED NATIONS!
At a meeting at Stanford Univ., CA on June 23-27, 1997, the "Timeline for UR 2000" was created. The UR charter writing was to start June, 1998 and end in June, 2000. This may be another reason why 1997/1998 was marked by the Modern Parallels. They plan to sign the charter June 26, 2000, probably in Jerusalem. The Pope is to be the head, and the UR is supposed to unite all religions and bring peace to the world.
The only thing I can see that is holding them back is the Holy Spirit in the salt-of-the-earth people that are dead set against this. Once we are out of the picture, the restraining influence will be removed, and this UR will be officially launched with a charter, which is slated to be signed June 26, 2000. If the Rapture takes place June 9 or 10, that would remove the salt that restrains the growth of leaven.
I Thess. 5:3,4 says, "when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief."
This article also says, "Do not be deceived: the Roman Catholic Pope is the Biblical False Prophet!!"
I disagree with him being the False Prophet. I think the Pope will be the Beast of Rev. 13:2-10 and the False Prophet of Rev. 13:11-18 will be from Israel. Rev. 13:11 says, "I beheld ANOTHER ('another little horn,' Dan. 7:8) beast coming up out of the earth (out of the land, Israel); and he had two horns (Satan has 2 times that he inhabits a man, Judas Iscariot and the False Prophet) like a lamb (like Christ comes twice), and he spake as a dragon" (because he is Satan possessed).
This is the plan, "June 26, 2000, the United Religions Charter will be signed, while a walking pilgrimage for peace among religions takes place in villages, towns, and cities throughout the world."
They even planned for the Pope to visit Israel and declare what he just did.
"At the proper moment in history, the Pope will visit the combined Jewish/Christian/Moslem sector of Jerusalem to announce that all religions should be combined into one."
If anyone thinks we are not in the end times, they must not be watching. Agape
Note: Here is the information about the 40 years plus 120 days. From Nisan 9 (Palm Sunday) in 30 AD to Av 10 (when Jerusalem was burned) in 70 AD was 40 years plus the 120 days between Nisan 1 and Av 10. The 120 days are counted by inclusive reckoning. In our days, Israel took Jerusalem on 28 Iyar in the Six-Day War of 1967. That plus 40 years plus another 120 days from 28 Iyar to Tishri 1 is Sept. 13, 2007, the very day I think the millennial Day of the Lord begins.
From: Jim Bramlett: Re: Abib (Nisan) 10-16 Tom Gaston called me today with an interesting discovery.
First, a quick review. The dates Abib (Nisan) 10-16, coming up in April, are incredibly significant. They equate to April 15-21. (Abib, the first month in the Jewish sacred year, is the original biblical term for which Nisan was later substituted due to Babylonian influence.)
ABIB 10: 1. The Israelites crossed the Jordan into the Promised Land (Joshua 4:19). This was actually "after three days" (3:2), also very significant. This crossing into the Promised Land is symbolic of our crossing over into heaven. 2. Jesus presented Himself as the Messiah.
ABIB 14. 1. The Israelites' first Passover celebration after crossing (5:10). 2. Jesus, the Passover Lamb, crucified.
ABIB 16. 1. The food from heaven, manna, for the Israelites stopped (5:12). 2. Jesus, our bread from heaven, resurrected.
So, the dates Abib 10-16, or 11-16, are very significant prophetically. Tom has found that when you multiply the dates 11-16 you get:
11 X 12 X 13 X 14 X 15 X 16 = 5765760, or 576/5760. (Multiplying by 10 only adds another zero.)
What is the significance? Remember, we are currently in Jewish year 5760! What are the mathematical odds of such a 576-twice-repeated result?...
Next day: Some more possibilities:
1. The four days between Abib 10 and Abib 14 (when Jesus was crucified) may symbolize the four millennial days (4,000 years) between Adam and Jesus.
2. The two days between Abib 14 and Abib 16 (Jesus' resurrection) may symbolize the two millennial days (2,000 years) of the church age before the resurrection.
3. Therefore, the six days between Abib 10 and Abib 16 may symbolize the six millennial days (6,000 years) from Adam to now, and the soon rapture/resurrection.
4. Manna stopped on Abib 16, the same day our bread from heaven was resurrected. When He comes for us, we will not longer need that bread on earth because we will be with Him and see Him as He is.
5. The Jordan river backed up and "piled up in a heap a great distance away, at a town called Adam" (Joshua 3:16, NIV). The river was cut off and it was dry all the way from Adam to the Dead Sea. Could this speak of the spiritual dryness existing since Adam? But in the midst, God's people crossed over into the Promised Land, as we do, initially when we receive Christ but ultimately probably at about the end of the sixth millennium,.
In addition: 1. As previously mentioned, the 2,000 cubits that had to separate the Ark of the Covenant (the glory of God) from the people as they entered the Promised Land (Joshua 3:4) may represent the 2,000 years from Jesus (the glory of God) and His people crossing into the Promised Land.
2. The six days of marching around Jericho (Joshua 6) with victory on the seventh day may represent the six millennial days (6,000 years) of history prior to the Lord's return and the seventh Millennium.
Remember, the Hebrew word for "tenth" as in "the tenth day of the first month" in Joshua 4:19 has a gematria (added) of 576 (year 5760?), and (multiplied) of 2520 (the times of the Gentiles?).
No doubt we have only scratched the surface in mining some of the golden nuggets from the treasure of God's Word. Symbolic of Jesus Himself, and even with the same Hebrew name, Joshua (Hebrew: Yehoshua, or the shorter Yeshua) must be loaded with symbolism. Jim
ABIB 16. 1. The food from heaven, manna, for the Israelites stopped (5:12). 2. Jesus, our bread from heaven, resurrected.
This is especially interesting, since I think that the Resurrection was on Nisan 16, not 17, as some say.
Agape. The "path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day" (Prov. 4:18).
Isa. 66:8,14,15 says, "Shall the earth be made to bring forth in ONE DAY? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children....And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD (Christ) shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies. For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire."
Zech 13:8,9 says, "it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God." Agape
If I understood your response to my previous e-mail- you are saying that it is not enough to just believe in God and Christ to merit the privelage of the pre-trib rapture. But that you actually have to live a life that is in keeping with the wishes of Christ.
If I have faith alone and do not live my faith will I be raptured? If I have never heard of Christ but live the law that God put in my heart will I be raptured? If I stop living my faith do I loose my ticket? Is salvation something that I can loose? If it is something that I can loose, is it something that I can get back? What is the cut off for Christians? I mean how good of a Christian do I have
to be on a scale of one to ten to be invited to go in the first rapture?
Thanks again, Your Brother in Christ!
Maybe you haven't been tested, but I have. And I have stood my ground every inch of the way.
> > you are saying that it is not enough to just believe in God and Christ
to merit the privelage of the pre-trib rapture.
I am not the judge, Christ is, but read about the foolish virgins (Mt. 25:1f) and the Laodiceans (Rev. 3:14f). Make doggone sure you do not fall in their category. You don't want to be spewed out of his mouth like the Laodiceans (Rev. 3:16) or left behind like the foolish virgins. Let this be your wake up call. The Rapture is near. Make sure you are ready, with no unconfessed sins. When we first accept Christ, all sins up to that time are wiped off the books. It is sins after that that need to be confessed. The Tribulation saints have to wash their robes in the blood of Christ to make them white anyway (Rev. 7:14). We should do it now, and not later. We will learn our lesson the easy way, or we will learn the hard way, but learn we will. This is like when Jesus washed Peter's feet. He told Peter, "If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean" (Jn. 13:8-10).
I don't want to judge. Christ must do all that. Read the NT and you will find answers to your questions. One thing I will answer. I believe that once saved, always saved. That doesn't mean that we merit the first Rapture, but assures that we will be caught up in the second Rapture. I Cor. 3:12-15 says, "Now if any man build upon this foundation (faith in Christ) gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
We are put here to be tested to see if we will obey God. He gave us the Bible so we will have a chance to pass our test. It isn't his fault if we don't read it. The NT tells us how to walk the Christian walk. Salvation is a free gift. We can work for rewards. If we don't, we will lose rewards. It is up to us. Eternity is a long time to wish we had done differently during our time of testing.
One warning. Every time we take an upward spiritual step, it seems that we are tested to see if we will hang on to it or let it go when things get tough. The more determined we are, the quicker the testing is over. Then what seems like cursing turns to blessing because we passed that test with flying colors. Being wishy washy seems to prolong the testing. We need to make up our mind so definitely that the enemy will know there is no use, we won't back down no matter what happens. All the best, Agape
I don't limit it to Sivan 7 because the 2300 days of Dan. 8:14 for the shortened Tribulation have to be counted inclusively from Sivan 6 in 2001 to Tishri 1 in 2007.
> > Planetary Alignments: An extremely rare alignment of the Sun, Moon, eight planets and at least five comets occurs on May 5 2000. This alignment could alter the present near-impact Mars trajectory of 76/P into an impact trajectory. It is important to note that the last occurrence of this alignment was in September 1186 AD.
The authors also have a picture of the May 5th lineup. It shows, left to right, Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Venus, Mercury, Sun, Moon and Earth. I don't count "eight planets" --only 6. There are 8 heavenly bodies though, so that is probably what they meant. I assume that Sept. 1186 AD was the last time this alignment appeared. Agape
You say, ***I don't think Jesus is talking to the Tribulation saints in these 7 messages. He is talking to "the churches" just before the Rapture, while the door is open. The 7-year Tribulation comes "hereafter" (4:1), after the door is closed.
I don't disagree with you. But I still think there are statements that are symbolic of that tribulation in the messages of 6 of the 7 churches. When the church of Philadelphia is told, "I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world", that is definitely a statement that symbolizes the escape that the present believers will have as they are faithful and patient. When the church in Smyrna is told to "be thou faithful unto death", that is a symbolic statement that doesn't put the emphasis on the upper taker, because as during the tribulation, an under taker becomes a more imminent possibility. It seems to me that the church at Smyrna is a type of the tribulation saints that will be characterized by many martyrs that are "faithful unto death". So, seeing that Rev. 2:10 says, "be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a CROWN OF LIFE", and James 1:18 says, ""Blessed is the man that endureth temptation (endureth tribulation): for when he is tried (during the tribulation of those days), he shall receive the crown of life", I still lean towards believing that the tribulation saints will be eligible for this crown.
You said, ***All overcomers get "to eat of the tree of life" (2:7), but the persecuted ones of 2:10 get "a crown of life." Can't there be a difference to those who win out in spite of tough persecution?
There certainly can. I never meant to say that "all" tribulation saints receive the crown of life. Even though I know the Word says that overall, the "beast will overcome the saints", I am sure that there will be persecuted "overcomers" during the tribulation period as well. I believe that they will receive this crown as well as the persecuted bride that are martyrs.
I see your point on 2 Timothy 4:7-8. It is well taken that "the righteous judge" and "that day" could refer to the crown of righteousness being given at the time of the pre-tribulation rapture . . . EXCEPT for the scripture in 1 Corinthians 9:24-25 which says, "24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one (the bride) receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible (crown singular).
To answer your question...
***I Pet. 5:4 says, "when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away." Do you think the crown of glory could be the same as the incorruptible crown? Yes, I do. As you said, it is very clear, based on the above scripture that you quote, that the crown of glory is the one incorruptible crown that is presented at the pre-trib rapture. So that means, since crown is singular in 1 Corinthians 9:25, this crown of righteousness can't be given to the Bride at the rapture, but has to be given at the judgment seat of Christ. Thus my interpretation of "that day" being the day the judgment seat of Christ convenes must be correct. If "that day" in 2 Tim. 4:8 meant the day of the pre-trib rapture, there would be two crowns given out, the crown of glory and the crown of righteousness, instead of one incorruptible crown as 1 Cor. 9:25 says.
Maybe I am reading into your statement that says...
***In Rev. 7:15, the Tribulation saints are "before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple." It doesn't say that they are kings.
but it seems like you are intimating that because the tribulation saints are not kings, that they can't have crowns. It is true that kings wear crowns. But aren't crowns also a laurel wreath, (reward) that is presented at the end of the race? The race for the Bride will end at the pre-trib rapture and the race for the tribulation saints will end at the post-trib. rapture. Why do you have a reluctance to say that the tribulation saints cannot receive laurels or crowns when they finish their race? It seems to me when you look at the tremendous adversity of the tribulation and the massive harvest that occurs during that time (Rev. 7:9), there will be much to reward of some very courageous saints. That does not at all take away from the specific rewards such as the prize of the first upward invitation, the crown of glory and the crown of righteousness which are exclusively for the Bride.
I totally agree with your conclusion . . .
***That we will receive a crown at the Pre-Trib Rapture seems assured. Other than that, what we will get then or later at the Judgment Seat of Christ is not set in stone.
The only sleight additions that I would make are in parentheses. ". . . what we will get then (we could get a reward other than a crown) or (what we, the bride or the tribulation saints get) later at the Judgment Seat of Christ is not set in stone.
Once again thanks for your response. You force me to think all angles of any issue through. Your Brother in Jesus
I think you mean Jas. 1:12. I agree with you on this verse. It probably has a double reference, as many scriptures do. I also think that "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil" (Mt. 6:13) in the Lord's prayer has a double reference, to ordinary temptations and to the Tribulation trial that is to come upon the whole world.
> > Why do you have a reluctance to say that the tribulation saints cannot receive laurels or crowns when they finish their race?
It is just that until I looked up all the scriptures to see how they might fit together, I was not certain about crowns for the Tribulation saints. It is definite for the Bride. However, Jas. 1:12's "crown of life" seems to be one that the Tribulation saints could not be denied. Agape
Thank you, I've probably read proverbs a hundred times, but I never really READ that verse until you just sent it to me. It is amazing how much more revealing this verse is alone. My path is getting much more narrow and defined recently. I feel like I'm running out of time and I have so many friends that aren't saved.
"But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." mt 7:14. God bless you Marilyn
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