Note: Jeanette Jennings, Lakeland, FL, needs our prayers. She has cancer of the tongue.
I think the Six-Day War was the Sign of the End of the Age. It fulfilled the fig tree parable in Mt. 24:32-34. The leaves Israel grew were Sinai, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights and West Bank. The word translated tender is apalos, young. Israel was 19, and that is the last year she could be considered young, as when they came out of Egypt. Those 20 and up were counted. Those under that were the young. One 40-year generation later, all the things in that section will be fulfilled. 1967 + 40 = 2007. We know that "this generation" is 40 years, because it was in Mt. 23:36. That 40 years was from 30 AD to 70 AD.
I think the Day of God's Wrath is the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord, Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets (Joel 2:1-3; Mal. 2:3). Tishri 1, 5768 is Sept. 13, 2007. I think that is the 2300th day (Dan. 8:14) of the shortened Tribulation. Count backward by Jewish inclusive reckoning to find out what day the Tribulation will start on. It comes out that the Seventieth Week of Daniel (Dan. 9:27) will start appropriately on the Feast of Weeks in 2001.
On Sept. 13, 1993, the Oslo Accords were signed. They were ratified 3 days later in Israel on Tishri 1, 5754. I expect 7 good years and 7 bad years, as when Joseph was in Egypt. Sept. 13, 1993 + 7 good years = Sept. 13, 2000. Add another 7 bad years and you come to Sept. 13, 2007. If you figure from when the Oslo Accords were ratified on the Jewish calendar, Tishri 1, 5754 + 7 + 7 = Tishri 1, 5768, which is Sept. 13, 2007. To me, that smacks of something the Lord would arrange. It is too good to be by accident.
I expect the Final Status Peace Agreement to be signed as planned, Sept. 13, 2000, and be "confirmed" (Dan. 9:27) by the Beast and False Prophet on the Feast of Weeks in 2001. That kicks off the Tribulation, the worst 7 years since there was a nation.
There are two Raptures, one Pre-Trib (I Thess. 4:13-18; Rev. 4:1; 5:9), the other Pre-Wrath (I Cor. 15:51,52; Rev. 7:9,14). The first is as the days of Noah (Mt. 24:37f). The second is as the days of Lot (Lu. 17:28f). If the Tribulation is to start in 2001, the Pre-Trib Rapture is not far off. I am hoping for next Pentecost, June 9 or 10, 2000. I think the Pre-Wrath Rapture is Tishri 1, 5768, Sept. 13, 2007.
The books you mention are fiction, but they reflect Scripture. Read the Bible, and you will soon know if all those things are so or not.
I am Baptist, but there are no denominations mentioned in Scripture. A person is a member of the spiritual church, the Body of Christ, if he has accepted Christ as his Saviour. That is what is important.
Pray for your friends, and always be ready to give the reason for the hope that is in you. If it will do any good, the Lord will bring up the conversation. Just answer their questions honestly and leave the rest up to the Lord. He knows who will be his and who won't. He knows what they need to hear and what they don't. Let the conversation go where it will. The Lord knows what they need better than we do. It is so neat when you realize that the Lord is working through you. Things pop into your brain that you might not have thought of on your own. You feel His love flowing through you to the other person. You don't want to force anything on him, you just want to help him understand that he has nothing to lose and everything to gain. We were put here on this earth to be tested. Will we or won't we obey God? He has given us a manual so we can pass our test. It isn't his fault if we don't read the manual. Start with the New Testament. Agape
We will be assembled for Judgment and separated sheep from goats. The goats who believe in the Lord will be asked to leave.
I have read the NT several times and will continue to read it, hopefully for the rest of my long life. Simply reading the NT does not mean that we will find the same information in it. Rapture theology was not even introduced until 1831 by John Darby, Millions of Christians had read the NT before he was born and no one came up with the position that the truly faithful Christians would be spared any tribulations. I have read most of the available writings of the early Christians and none even hint at the reward for faithful service being exemption from tribulation. Granted, they did not have the scripture in a nice neet book until the 5th century, and it was not broken down into chapter and verse until a thousand years later. And what about the poor around the world that cannot read or do not, honestly, have any time for anything but survival al. Did God leave them out of his plan for Salvation and Rapture because they are to poor to play Bible tennis? Or to poor to have a computer, or research tools online.
I don't think that it is hard as you make it. We have been given God's laws written on our hearts. We do not need to study, we need to live. I am not saying that we who have the resources should not invest our time in study and gaining a better understanding of our Lord through God's word. I just think that if the Bible was the key to passing the test, Jesus might have at least authored the preface or something. But instead of writing, Christ lived the example that he wanted to provide. Remember that Christ is God and he did not have to be born to a virgin or be a poor humble servant. He could have just appeared adorned with all of his holiness and brought his Angels with him to take over. But he didn't, he came as a servant so that we could see by his example that we should also be servants.
I do not believe that there is any biblical precedent for God sparing his faithful from tribulation. However there is precedent for God sparing the faithful from his judgment. Noah was not spared tribulation but was not condemed. We will not be taken in rapture on Pentecost 2000. Through all of you mental gymnastics that have lead you to this conclusion; on the day after Pentecost 2000 you will need to realize that Jesus was serious when he said, It is not for you to know the times or seasons that the Father has established by his own authority" it is in the NT.
By the way that statement that you made about being tested and coming through with flying colors. Remember that we only come through testing with the Grace of God, so that no man can boast. Love, Your Brother in Christ
WE are believers. OUR home is Heaven. I believe WE will be raptured, either at the first trump (Pre-Wrath Rapture, I Thess. 4:13-18; Rev. 4:1; 5:9; Lu. 17:25) or at the "last trump," (Pre-Trib Rapture, I Cor. 15:51,52; Rev. 7:9,14; Lu. 17:28f). Jesus said, "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, THERE YE MAY BE ALSO. And whither I go YE KNOW (the location of the 'third heaven,' II Cor. 12:2, is a familiar name to us, (1) Mars, (2) Jupiter, (3) Saturn), and the way ye know" (we know where it is).
Our judgment is at the Judgment Seat of Christ in Heaven. The Judgment of the Nations is on Earth. That is where you will find the "goats."
Mt. 25:31f says, "When the Son of man shall come in his glory (Second Advent), and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations (on Earth, not Heaven): and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his SHEEP from the GOATS: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, INHERIT THE KINGDOM prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (kosmos, this orderly arrangement of things, i.e., from Adam's time).
> > Simply reading the NT does not mean that we will find the same information in it.
> > Rapture theology was not even introduced until 1831 by John Darby, Millions of Christians had read the NT before he was born and no one came up with the position that the truly faithful Christians would be spared any tribulations
Sorry to put a pin in that balloon. A sermon by Pseudo-Ephraem (written c. 374-627 AD), shows the untruth of that statement. In his "On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, he wrote, "For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, PRIOR TO THE TRIBULATION that is to come, and are TAKEN TO THE LORD lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."
> > what about the poor around the world that cannot read or do not, honestly, have any time for anything but survival
You must have skipped Romans 1:18-20. It says, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE."
> > We do not need to study, we need to live
The heathen do as much.
> > if the Bible was the key to passing the test, Jesus might have at least authored the preface or something. But instead of writing, Christ lived the example that he wanted to provide.
He did better than author a preface. He authored the whole thing. All Scripture is God-breathed. II Tim. 3:16,17 says, "All scripture is given by INSPIRATION OF GOD, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS: THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT, THROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL GOOD WORKS."
Isa. 48: 12-18 says, "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first (Lord of the OT), I also am the last (Lord of the NT). Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together....Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD (the Father), and his Spirit (the Holy Spirit), hath sent me (Christ). Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: I am the LORD thy God which TEACHETH THEE to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. O that thou hadst hearkened to MY COMMANDMENTS!" The Pre-incarnate Christ gave Israel the 10 commandments at Sinai. To be chosen to be the Bride of Christ is worth striving for. And "they that are WITH HIM (just before the 10 kings are crowned, v. 12) are called, and chosen, and faithful" (Rev. 17:14).
> > We will not be taken in rapture on Pentecost 2000.
You are not watching. Jesus commanded us to watch. What will you do if we are "taken in rapture on Pentecost 2000"? The charter for the prophesied United Religions (UR), headed up by the Pope, is slated to be signed about 16 days later, on June 26, 2000. The salt of the Earth is retarding the growth of leaven right now. What will happen when we are gone? Read Rev. 13 again. Verses 7-9 say, "And it was given unto him to make war (Rev. 6:1-4) with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him OVER ALL KINDREDS, AND TONGUES, AND NATIONS. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear."
You said before: > > I do not think that I am praying to be left behind, but don't you think that it would be awesome to actually be able to live a Christian life that takes courage; you know like the early Christians in pagan Rome.
For me, I'd rather live it now, have the Bride's rewards and be close to the Lord forever. I agree with Paul when he said he didn't want to be a "castaway." In I Cor. 9:24, he said, "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain." Agape
Side question here; is this hour of trial the same hour in 18:10 "...in one hour your doom has come!" Or, is this "hour of trial" a different word in the Greek than the hour in 18:10?
Every church is told to overcome, overcome what? What is the actual Greek word here. Overcome to me means make it past or endure something, sounds like these people may have to go though the Trib. Even some Philadelphians. Only some Philadelphians and some Sardis people (sardines? hee hee), have already overcome. These letters to the churches are all pre-trib right? They must be because Jesus says, "since you have kept my command to endure patiently I will keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test (overcome?) those who live on earth."
My point is this. Overcoming (is that a word?) sounds like enduring after being tested, and found worthy (not earning salvation), and only "a few people in Sardis", and most Philadelphians did (are doing) this. No other church is even given the opportunity not to have to overcome. They must either overcome, repent, or both. Jesus said "just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne." Wow, overcoming doesn't look like much fun. Jesus didn't go through the wrath of God, but he was tested for the duration of his ministry (3.5 years i think).
Lastly, Could the seal and trumpet judgments simply be the carrying out in heaven what the two witnesses are prophesying, issuing forth, declaring, decreeing, cursing, or whatever word you want to use for it. The reason I ask is because the very powers they are given are the same as the judgments that are carried out. This could be why the whole world is happy when they are finally killed, because it seems to the people on earth that these two are directly responsible. Also, this seems a lot like the Elijah we know from the OT....Thanks again
They are essentially the same word, hora, day, hour, instant, season, time. The meaning is to be determined by the context.
The "path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day" (Prov. 4:18).
> Every church is told to overcome, overcome what? What is the actual Greek word here
The word is nikao, to subdue, conquer, overcome, prevail, get the victory. In the KJV, Jesus mentions he that "overcometh" in these messages. He who gets the victory gets the "prize" of the "high calling of God in Christ Jesus" (Phil. 3:14), the Pre-Trib Rapture. In I Cor. 9:24-27, Paul explains that "every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."
Nicolaitanes is from nikao (to conquer) and laos (the people). It has to do with the clergy lording it over the people. In the NT, we have the priesthood of the believer. We are to call no man Father (Mt. 23:9). Setting up the Pope over the people is so "power" can be "given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations" (Rev. 13:7). And what will the Tribulation Pope do? He will open "his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven" (those that were caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture) (Rev. 13:6).
What will happen on the Day of God's Wrath? Zech. 5:3.4 says of the "curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth (the orbiting asteroid)...I will bring it forth,. saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief (the False Prophet, of whom Judas Iscariot was a type), and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name (the Beast): and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof." Babylon will be no more.
> > Overcome to me means make it past or endure something, sounds like these people may have to go though the Trib
The overcomers are the ones that do not have to go through the Trib. Those letters are to the church when the Pre-Trib Rapture is "at hand."
> > Could the seal and trumpet judgments simply be the carrying out in heaven what the two witnesses are prophesying
These events are to happen on Earth. I think the two witnesses are literally Moses and Elijah. See. Mal. 4:5. They have the same powers they were given before. Agape
14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. 6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. 8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
I know that verse 6..."in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark", refers to the day of the second advent because of the descriptions in verse 8 and 9.
In verse 4 it says, "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives..." I've always been taught that the feet of Jesus would touch down on the Mt. of Olives when He first comes at the second advent. Yet other scripture says that He is coming on a white horse. Is He going to ride down and step off on the Mt. of Olives? Verses 1-3 refer to "the day of the Lord" that I thought begins the day of wrath and the "the LORD going forth, and fighting against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle". That sounds like Jesus intervening in the Gog Magog war. Is that your take on it and if it is, is there a seven month gap between verse 3 and 4. Maybe you could expound on this passage, especially verses 1-3 again. Your Brother in Jesus
Yes, Jesus intervenes in that war, and there is a 7 month gap between verses 3 and 4 in Zech. 14.
Here is the way I understand it. Verse 1 is the first day of the Millennium, "the day of the LORD cometh." Verse 2 is the attack of "all nations" led by Gog (Eze. 38) against Jerusalem. It is also the first day of the Millennium. Half "the city shall be taken." Then Israel will blow the alarm on the silver trumpets.
Nu. 10:2,9 says, "Make thee two trumpets of silver...if ye go to war in your land against the enemy that oppresseth you, then YE SHALL BLOW AN ALARM WITH THE TRUMPETS;and ye shall be remembered before the LORD your God, and YE SHALL BE SAVED FROM YOUR ENEMIES."
Verse 3, "Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle." This refers to Joshua's Long Day, when more died with falling rocks than Israel killed (Jos. 10:11). This is Yahshua's Long Day. The "great mountain burning with fire" of Rev. 8:8 (the smaller piece of what is probably a binary asteroid) impacts the Mediterranean Sea (Zeph. 2:4,5; Eze. 25:16; Job 20:23; Amos 8:9). The larger "aster" of Rev. 8:10 destroys Babylon.
Eze. 38:19,20 says, "Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (paneh, face, i.e., the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14-17), and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground."
This is the day of "thick darkness" (Joel 2:1-3). It cannot be the day of the Second Advent (Zech. 14:5-7). Eze. 39:2-4 shows that only 1/6th of Gog's army will survive. "Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands." Verse 6 says, "And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD." Eze. 39:22 says, "So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward."
Eze. 39:12,13 bridges the gap between the first day of the Millennium (Tishri 1) and the Second Advent. It says, "And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (the following Nisan 1, Eze. 29:17,21; Hos. 6:3, in a Jewish leap year). I think this Tishri 1 will be our Sept. 13, 2007 and this Nisan 1 will be our Apr. 6, 2008 in the Jewish Leap Year 5768. I think the Crucifixion was on Apr. 6 on our calendar, so he returns on that anniversary.
I take him at his word that he will return riding a white horse, and that we will follow him on white horses (Rev. 19:11-14). Evidently, he lights down on the Mt. of Olives and dismounts. "And his feet shall stand in that day (Nisan 1, first day of the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Year) upon the mount of Olives" (Zech. 14:4). The mountain splits. "And the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee" (Zech. 14:5). It will not be clear, nor dark, but at evening, it shall be light. Agape
Just as there are two Raptures, there were TWO women, and they went to meet Jesus at different times, first "Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in the house" (Jn. 11:20). Later, Martha "called Mary her sister secretly, saying, The Master is COME, and CALLETH for thee. As soon as she heard that, she AROSE QUICKLY, AND CAME UNTO HIM" (vs. 28,29).
Lots of scriptures have a double application. Because Lazarus had been dead 4 days, this can also depict the rest of the sheaf that came out of their graves after Jesus' resurrection and appeared in Jerusalem. Mt. 27:52 says, "the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose." The 4 days could suggest the preceding 4000 years. I wonder if Adam was in that sheaf. His death was within that 4000-year period. (The elders, 12 patriarchs of Israel, may have been in that group.)
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