Pro and Con 48, Uploaded 1-16-98

Incoming Email

Lord: I pray for your healing power to flow into and through Marilyn, your devoted servant. Heal her totally, renew her strength competely and pour out your blessings upon her. I pray this in the blessed name of Jesus. Amen and Amen.

Thank you Marilyn for how you have blessed so many with your website and your devotion to the Lord and your obedience to Him. Love in Christ

My reply

I'm getting better each day. Thank you (all) for your prayers in my behalf; and thank you Lord for strengthening me.

Incoming Email, Re: rapture

I enjoyed reading your report. As I have also been studying the end times for the first time in my life, I have come to the conclusion that the classis pre trib position is not that strong. The only way that I could seem to put a pre trib rapture in fairly was to also have a post trib rapture somewhere after the tribulation. I often thought about a few raptures in which the 2 wittnesses introduced me to the ideal, but still cannot say that it is bonified.

I cannot say I am classic post either due to some problems there. But I do believe in the Rapture. My understanding thus far is that we dont understand the vision of John.

throughout my study I have come to a more covenant theology reason than dispensationalism. I believe both are right but I have met many covenant theologians who believe that God will deal with isreal (nation), while I have not met a dispensationalist that believes that the church is isreal (spiritually). They seemed to be threatened by it, I myself agree with the covenants that believe God will still deal with Isreal but find no reason to include the church present in the tribulation. They told me for God to deal with Isreal he would have to remove the church. I disagree, I believe God could still fullfill prophecy whether the church is here or not. There were some absurd arguments made by the pre tribbers that are really the arguments that made me aware of what they were really saying.

I can understand your position though, becuase I too am wondering if there is a middle ground between the pre and the post becuase they both have valid points to them. While I think that the pre lacks there are some points that do validate it.

If you would like to email me please do, Ive been talking abou this alot in the undernet in the Bible_prophecy channel and thats where Ive learned alot from the different positions.

My reply

> My understanding thus far is that we dont understand the vision of John.

See my new book "Revelations 2000." It explains The Revelation of Jesus Christ, verse by verse....

Rapture I is in Rev. 4:1. Rapture II is indicated by Rev. 7:14. Between them is Rev. 6. It starts off with the Beast riding forth as a prince of peace at the beginning of the Tribulation and ends with "the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" That Day of God's Wrath is the 2300th day of the Tribulation (see Dan. 8:14). Therefore there is a Pre-Trib Rapture and a Pre-Wrath Rapture. The Wrath of God is not found until Rev. 8, when the seven trumpet judgments hit Earth.

> church is isreal (spiritually)

The Church is not Israel. Israel is literal Israel.

Incoming Email, Re: wrong figures

Check out this article and let me know what you think of his arithmetic. http://www.yeshuatheking.org/noah.html

My reply

...I disagree with his time calculations. He said:

> God's plan for mankind prior to the Millennial Kingdom is a period of roughly 6000
> years that is divided into three ages of about 2000 years each. Or 40 Jubilees of 50 years each.

The Jubilee cycle is a 49 year cycle, not 50. (The 50th year is the first year of the next cycle.)

> When Noah was 600 years old, God closed them up in the ark and the floods
> came and those who had rejected Gods offer were swept away. After the flood,
> Noah lived another 350 years and died when he was 950 years old. Noah's
> death marked the end of the first age, a total of two thousand and six
> years, from the creation of Adam. Something that we don't think of very much
> is the fact that Abram was born before Noah died. Guess how long before?
> Fifty eight years....

> So when Noah dies, the first age in done, but before that
> happens, 58 years before that time, Abram is born. The Marker for the second
> age. The two periods overlap by the 58 years. The second has started before
> the first is ended.

> Abram was born 1,948 years after Adam....

Abram was born two years after Noah died. Noah died in 2006 AH. Abram was born 2008 AH.

> If Jesus began preaching on or after His 30th Birthday, then
> three and one half years later would bring you up to the time of the
> Passover, in the year 33 A.D....

The Crucifixion was in 30 AD, 40 years before Jerusalem and Temple were burned.

> Remember the father of Israel, Abraham, was
> born and then 58 years later the days of Noah came to a final end. If we now
> add 58 years to the miraculous date of 1947 we come to 2005 A.D.

The 58 years is not right. Therefore what is built with it cannot be correct, either.

Incoming Email

I was doing some Bible research for my math class (I teach Mathematics, Science and Biology at a local Messianic Yeshiva...), and I assigned them to determine the number of miracles Yeshua did during his ministry as per Yochanan 21:25. I know your are very competent in mathematics, so I send it along for your interest (and hopefully your enjoyment)...

FOR OUR TERM PAPER PROBLEM WE ARE REFERRED TO YOCHANAN 21:25 {25 YESHUA DID MANY OTHER THINGS AS WELL. IF EVERY ONE OF THEM WERE WRITTEN DOWN, I SUPPOSE THAT EVEN THE WHOLE WORLD WOULD NOT HAVE ROOM FOR THE BOOKS THAT WOULD BE WRITTEN. } WHICH RECOUNTS THE NUMBER OF "THINGS" WHICH YESHUA DID. OUR ASSUMPTIONS ARE: THAT AT THAT TIME THERE WERE NO "BOOKS" AS WE VISUALIZE A BOOK TODAY. RATHER BACK THEN SCROLLS OF PARCHMENT WERE THE VEHICLE FOR INSCRIBING INFORMATION. WE ALSO MAKE THE CONSERVATIVE ASSUMPTIONS THAT THE WORLD (WHICH THE VOLUMES WOULD FILL) CONSISTED ONLY OF ERETZ YISRAEL (THE LAND OF ISRAEL) AND THAT THE DESCRIPTION OF A TYPICAL DEED PERFORMED BY YESHUA TOOK 1,000 SQ. FT. OF PARCHMENT. IF ONE SHEET OF PARCHMENT WAS 3' X 4' (12 SQ FT) THEN 1,000 SQ FT REPRESENTED APPROXIMATELY 83 "PAGES" TO DESCRIBE JUST ONE DEED (MIRACLE). ERETZ YISRAEL IS APPROXIMATELY 8,000 SQ MI. AND FOR OUR PURPOSES WE HAVE ASSUMED "NON-OVERLAPPING" COVERAGE OVER ALL THE LAND.

A eretzYisrael = 8,000 square miles = 223,027,200,000 square feet

TO CALCULATE THE NUMBER OF DEEDS DONE BY YESHUA WE TAKE THE ABOVE SQUARE FOOTAGE AND DIVIDE BY 1,000 SQ. FT. / DEED, THUS:

The number of deeds done by Yeshua = A eretzYisrael / 1000

The number of deeds done by Yeshua = 223,027,200 DEEDS

IF WE MAKE THE ARBITRARY ASSUMPTIONS THAT YESHUA PERFORMED THESE DEED ONLY DURING HIS APPROXIMATE 3 yr MINISTRY WE THEN OBTAIN, ON THE AVERAGE: (The number of deeds done by Yeshua) / (3 x 365.25) = 203,538 deeds per day {NOT QUITE A QUARTER MILLION DEEDS (MIRACLES) PER DAY}!!!!

IF WE FURTHER ASSUME THAT HALF (50%) OF THESE DEEDS APPLIED TO PEOPLE {AS OPPOSED TO MATERIAL ITEMS SUCH AS FISH AND LOAVES OF BREAD}, THAT THEY WERE MIRACULOUS AND ASSUMING SEVEN "MIRACLES" PER PERSON, THEN A ROUGH ESTIMATE OF THE POPULATION BACK THEN WAS: ABOUT 14.5 MILLION PEOPLE

(203,538 x 1000)/14 = 14, 500,000

GIVEN THE ASTONISHING QUALITY AND QUANTITY OF MIRACLES CONTINUALLY PERFORMED BY YESHUA, IT IS QUITE UNDERSTANDABLE HIS IMPATIENCE WITH THE DISBELIEVING PHARISEES AND SADUCCES. THUS WE READILY SEE THE DIVINE JUSTIFICATION FOR THE PRONOUNCEMENT OF THE UNPARDONABLE SIN AGAINST THE SANHEDRON!!!

THIS LITTLE MATHEMATICAL EXCURSION INTO THE BIBLE SHOULD ONLY SERVE TO MOST STRONGLY UNDERSCORE THE TREMENDOUS POWER, COMPASSION AND LOVE OUR OMNIPOTENT L-RD HAS FOR US. OUR GREAT L-RD'S LOVE AND DESIRE TO HELP US IS UNBOUNDED IN BOTH MAGNITUDE OF A SINGLE EVENT AND UNBOUNDED IN QUANTITY...NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR HIM !!!!!!!!!

I also would like you to examine and critique (if your time permits) something I developed Re: The day of Resurrection: I am aware that in your book "End of the Age" you position Yeshuas death on a Thursday. My desire here is not to conflict or dispute your assessments (quite the contrary it was your book that led me to the L-rd! so I hold you in the highest possible esteem), actually I was wondering if a resurrection on Saturday eve and being visually seen on Sunday morning would strengthen your calculations regarding future events. In a round about way I'm saying I have full confidence in your Blessed assessments {In Eze 33:8 we are reminded of the watchman charged with the duty to watch and warn that fails in his task to forewarn), I was wondering if my calculations would further substantiate the prognostications; if my calculations are found to be undermining in nature please disregard them, I can only conclude then that they must be in error, as I believe our L-rd has Blessed you w/ HIS insight and thus automatically I must be incorrect and "return to the drawing board" as we say. May the L-rd Bless you and your loved ones abundantly all the days of your life. Thank you for your kind interest and time.

SHABBOT & YESHUAS DEATH

commence with the basic beliefs: The Bible Cannot contradict itself, Numbers 23: 19God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.", 1st Samuel 15: 29He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind." And Malachi 3: 6"I the LORD do not change."

We know that "first uses" in The Torah and Tenakh and Brit Chaddasah serve as definers. The first Pesach (Passover) went as: Moshe foretold of death of innocents (first born,,,,,, Yeshua was 'first born of the dead'.), sacrificial lambs first selected or choosen then slaughtered, then the blood applied to door posts then the feast followed by the Exodus. The L-rd, G-d himself said that his words (Bible) was good to use to learn types, foreshadows and similtudes. The fiest Passover served as the exact pattern for Yeshuas death. Recall Yeshuas own words: Mathew 26: 2"As you know, the Passover is two days away--and the Son of Man will be handed over to be crucified." His words indicate that he is to be crucified before Passover (within those the two days). Lets examine the exact similitudes:

(The format in the following table has been simplified.)

Re: Moshe: grieved for the death of the first born
Re: Yeshua: grieved in GETHSEMANE to stay w/ mankind, but did the fathers will instead.

Moshe: Instructed Israel to select Lamb, judge it quality, suitability for slaughter
Yeshua: His trial, actually judged innocent, yet slaughtered

Moshe: lamb killed
Yeshua: crucified

Moche: Blood put on door posts to protect
Yeshua: perpetual sacrifice, his bloods covers us now, protecting us from death (sin, spiritual death)

Moshe: ingesting the Lamb, Feast Hakodesh
Yeshua: filling of the Rauch (indwelling of the Holy Spirit)

Moshe: Exodus, escape from evil and servitude
Yeshua: The rapture, deliverance from the wrath of G-d.

Yeshua said 'he longed to celebrate the Pesach w/ the Talmudim', however Yeshua did share a last supper with the Talmudim but it was not the Passover as we see from : Mark 15:6," 6 Now during a festival, Pilate used to set free one prisoner, whomever the crowd requested. 7 There was in prison among the rebels who had committed murder during the insurrection a man called Bar-Abba. 8 When the crowd came up and began asking Pilate to do for them what he usually did, 9 he asked them, "Do you want me to set free for you the 'King of the Jews'?" 10 For it was evident to him that it was out of jealousy that the head cohanim had handed him over. 11 But the head cohanim stirred up the crowd to have him release Bar-Abba for them instead. 12 Pilate again said to them, "Then what should I do with the man you call the King of the Jews?" 13 They shouted back, "Put him to death on the stake!" 14 He asked, "Why? What crime has he committed?" But they only shouted louder, "Put him to death on the stake!" 15 So Pilate, wishing to satisfy the mob, set Bar-Abba free for them; but he had Yeshua whipped and then handed him over to be executed on the stake." And Mattiyahu 27:21," 15 It was the governor's custom during a festival to set free one prisoner, whomever the crowd asked for. 16 There was at that time a notorious prisoner being held, named Yeshua Bar-Abba. {IN THIS WE CAN SEE IN THE NAME THE TYPE AND FORESHADOW OF THE ANTI-MESSIAH AND IN THE FUTURE THE JEWS AGAIN WILL SELECT THE "WRONG ONE"} 17 So when a crowd had gathered, Pilate said to them, "Whom do you want me to set free for you? Bar- Abba? or Yeshua, called 'the Messiah'?" 18 For he understood that it was out of jealousy that they had handed him over. 19 While he was sitting in court, his wife sent him a message, "Leave that innocent man alone. Today in a dream I suffered terribly because of him." 20 But the head cohanim persuaded the crowd to ask for Bar-Abba's release and to have Yeshua executed on the stake. 21 "Which of the two do you want me to set free for you?" asked the governor. "Bar-Abba!" they answered. 22 Pilate said to them, "Then what should I do with Yeshua, called 'the Messiah'?" They all said, "Put him to death on the stake! Put him to death on the stake!" 23 When he asked, "Why? What crime has he committed?" they shouted all the louder, "Put him to death on the stake!" 24 When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather that a riot was starting, he took water, washed his hands in front of the crowd, and said, "My hands are clean of this man's blood; it's your responsibility." 25 All the people answered, "His blood is on us and on our children!" 26 Then he released to them Bar-Abba; but Yeshua, after having him whipped, he handed over to be executed on a stake." And Yochanan 18: 28 Then the Jews led Jesus from Caiaphas to the palace of the Roman governor. By now it was early morning, and to avoid ceremonial uncleanness the Jews did not enter the palace; they wanted to be able to eat the Passover" And Yochanan 18:39. ""I don't find any case against him. 39 However, you have a custom that at Passover I set one prisoner free. Do you want me to set free for you the 'king of the Jews'?" 40 But they yelled back, "No, not this man but Bar-Abba!" (Bar-Abba was a revolutionary.)" Yeshua was already in custody PRIOR to The Passover!

Yeshua healed and did many miracles on the Shabbat as a type, foreshadow and similitude of what G-d, Abba would also do on the Sabbath to him, Yeshua. Also Yeshua was most probably raised on The Sabbath as we are reminded by Luke 6:, "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

My calculations are based on scripture and calculated using an ultra advanced Math software program developed for NASA called MATHCAD and a "canned" program using ephemeris time for the new and full moons. The use of ephermis time eliminates the slight inaccuracies introduced by employing Sidereal or solar time. The scriptural assessments are accurate as are the calculations extremely precise!

As far as Yeshua having his Passover feast, it will not be a mere earthly meal after having accomplished all his earthly sacrifices, he is too great as were his sacrifices too great for a mere earthly meal; rather it will be the Wedding banquet described in Revelations when his earthly bride is raptured!

Yeshua was a Jew, he celebrated only Hebraic festivals and since G-d does not change, when Yeshua returns we will celebrate in the Hebraic fashion; some will be in for culture shock.

CONSIDER THE TIME OF DEATH OF YESHUA. WE KNOW(BELIEVE) THAT IT MUST FOLLOW THE PATTERN SET FORTH IN THE ACCOUNT OF PASSOVER EX. 121THE LORD SAID TO MOSES AND AARON IN EGYPT, 2"THIS MONTH IS TO BE FOR YOU THE FIRST MONTH, THE FIRST MONTH OF YOUR YEAR. 3TELL THE WHOLE COMMUNITY OF ISRAEL THAT ON THE TENTH DAY OF THIS MONTH EACH MAN IS TO TAKE A LAMB FOR HIS FAMILY, ONE FOR EACH HOUSEHOLD. 4 IF ANY HOUSEHOLD IS TOO SMALL FOR A WHOLE LAMB, THEY MUST SHARE ONE WITH THEIR NEAREST NEIGHBOR, HAVING TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THERE ARE. YOU ARE TO DETERMINE THE AMOUNT OF LAMB NEEDED IN ACCORDANCE WITH WHAT EACH PERSON WILL EAT. 5 THE ANIMALS YOU CHOOSE MUST BE YEAR-OLD MALES WITHOUT DEFECT, AND YOU MAY TAKE THEM FROM THE SHEEP OR THE GOATS. 6TAKE CARE OF THEM UNTIL THE FOURTEENTH DAY OF THE MONTH, WHEN ALL THE PEOPLE OF THE COMMUNITY OF ISRAEL MUST SLAUGHTER THEM AT TWILIGHT Twilight here would commence the next Jewish day, thus the Lamb had to be slaughtered on Nisan 13 in order for blood to be on doorposts for the 14th). 7 THEN THEY ARE TO TAKE SOME OF THE BLOOD AND PUT IT ON THE SIDES AND TOPS OF THE DOORFRAMES OF THE HOUSES WHERE THEY EAT THE LAMBS. 8THAT SAME NIGHT THEY ARE TO EAT THE MEAT ROASTED OVER THE FIRE, ALONG WITH BITTER HERBS, AND BREAD MADE WITHOUT YEAST. 9DO NOT EAT THE MEAT RAW OR COOKED IN WATER, BUT ROAST IT OVER THE FIRE--HEAD, LEGS AND INNER PARTS. 10DO NOT LEAVE ANY OF IT TILL MORNING; IF SOME IS LEFT TILL MORNING, YOU MUST BURN IT. 11THIS IS HOW YOU ARE TO EAT IT: WITH YOUR CLOAK TUCKED INTO YOUR BELT, YOUR SANDALS ON YOUR FEET AND YOUR STAFF IN YOUR HAND. EAT IT IN HASTE; IT IS THE LORD'S PASSOVER. 12"ON THAT SAME NIGHT I WILL PASS OVER.

LET'S EXAMINE THE DAY FOR THE PHASES OF THE MOON DURING:

YEAR    NEW        1ST Q.        FULL    LAST QUART.
      MAR.  APR.  MAR.  APR.  MAR.  APR.  MAR.  APR.
27 A.D. 26     25     4     4     11     11     19     18
28 A.D. 15     13     22   20     29      27     8      6
29 A.D. 4       2     12   10      18     17     25     24
30 A.D. 22     21     31   29      8       6     16     13
31 A.D. 12     10     20   18      27     25     5      3
33 A.D. 29     28     7     6      15     14     23     21

...30 A.D. by the moon phasing of the years surrounding it could have been an intercalary year of 13 months, The #13 signifying evil

YESHUA WAS CRUCIFIED ON WEDNESDAY APRIL 6, 30 A.D. . HE DIED AT 3:00 PM ON THAT DAY (NISAN 13. REMEMBER THE # 13 AND ITS MEANING, SEE ALSO PURIM 13TH DAY OF MONTH). THURSDAY NISAN 14 WAS THE FEAST OF PASSOVER. OUR L-RD AROSE JUST BEFORE TWILIGHT ON SATURDAY NISAN 16. HE WAS ARISEN ON SATURDAY, AT THE END OF 3 COMPLETE 24 HOUR PERIODS. NISAN 10-16: SUNDAY EVENING ON NISAN 10 TO SAT. EVE NISAN 16.

AT 3:00 PM ON PASS0VER, THE SANHEDREN WAS COMPLETEING THEIR ULTIMATE FINAL HYPOCRISY BY SACRIFICING THEIR PASSOVER LAMB WHILE YESHUA EXPIRED. YESHUA BEGAN HIS MINISTRY 1000 DAYS PRIOR TO NISAN 13, 4810 ON SIVAN 6, 4807 (SHAVOUT--THE FEAST OF WEEKS-- PENTECOST, 2.76 YEARS EARLIER). INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, SIVAN 6, WAS THE DAY UPON WHICH MOSES BROUGHT THE WORD TO THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.

My reply

>thus the Lamb had to be slaughtered on Nisan 13 in order for blood
> to be on doorposts for the 14th)

I agree with this. I believe Jesus was crucified on Nisan 13, in 30 AD. We are plainly told that it was not on the feast day. Our Passover died when the lambs were being killed at the temple. Chances of this being Thursday instead of Wednesday seem most likely because the women could have taken spices before they did if there had been an extra day between the Preparation (Thursday) for the Passover High Sabbath (Friday) and the Saturday Sabbath.

Incoming Email, Re: no man knows I've read your material on the net and for about the last six years I've read alot about eschotology. Though I believe in a pre trib rapture, I know I don't have all the answers. Sometimes I feel pre trib writers work hard to convince themselves and then quit. It is like what happens to a gold miner. He considers all evidence objectively until he "marries the vein". Then all evidence confirms his belief that there is gold in the one place. So here is my question: Consider
When Jesus said, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man" in Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32, the word translated "knoweth" was present tense. IT APPLIED TO THAT DAY AND NOT TO OUR DAYS HERE AT THE END OF THE AGE. Do you know that the Jewish month and day of the month of the Second Advent were already in the Old Testament?
Now for that to be true then Jesus could not have used logic to figure out when the end of the age; rapture, tribulation, and His second coming, would happen. But many writers have "figured" out the interval between the order to rebuild the wall in Jerusalem and May 14, 1948 and June 5, 1967. Could Jesus have figured these things out? Maybe you can see where I'm going with this. Are we using logic to work out the final events in history? Are if we are, couldn't Jesus have?

I read several of your last Pro & Cons. I don't remember which one you took some real heat. After reading your reponse I wanted to share with you that I could see Jesus thru your reply. I adire you for it.

My reply

Jesus was both Yehweh and Yehwehshua.

Our Lord Jesus Christ is the "Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first (Lord of the Old Testament) and the last" (Lord of the New Testament) (Rev. 22:13).

Isaiah 44:6 says, "Thus saith the LORD (Yahweh) the King of Israel and his redeemer the LORD (Yahweh) of hosts; I am the first (Yahweh), and I am the last (Yahwehshua); and beside me there is no God."

II Cor. 5:19 says, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself."


> But many writers have "figured" out the interval between the order
> to rebuild the wall in Jerusalem and May 14, 1948 and June 5, 1967.

This is faulty thinking if they are going by the 49 years of Dan. 9:25. Israel was only 19 years old in 1967.

Incoming Email

...I am reading Cracking The Bible Code by Dr. Jeffrey Satinover....a very, very interesting book...more so than Drosnin's. On page 10 he has the following quote from the Jewish Zohar which I find very curious....."For, as we have learnt, Jerusalem is the center of the earth and A HEAVENLY PLACE CALLED ZION IS ABOVE IT, and from this place it is blessed, and the two are indissolubly linked together"...Zohar, Vayikra 3.

I may just want to see something in this, but I could not but think of ...!! what do you think?

My reply

...The book sounds interesting...

> quote from the Jewish Zohar which I find very curious....."For, as > we have learnt, Jerusalem is the center of the earth and A HEAVENLY PLACE > CALLED ZION IS ABOVE IT, and from this place it is blessed, and the two are > indissolubly linked together"...Zohar, Vayikra 3.

You know what this reminds me of? Something Avi Ben Mordecai said. Here is what I said about it in the file avi.html:

"I knew that Mount Sinai represented Heaven, but I learned more about this from Avi. On page 276, under the chart heading 'CORRELATION TO ISRAEL & MT. SINAI,' he has this rich nugget: 'Exodus 19:17: Then Moses led the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. [Literally in Hebrew: Tachtit--underneath the mountain as in the mountain being in the air and floating above the people].'"...

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© 1997 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 1-16-98