Pro and Con 487

Posted 4-16-00

Incoming email

Subject: Re: 9 months from MidEast Treaty until June 10th
You know, the number 9 represents completion - that's why there are nine planets in the solar system, a baby is born 9 months after conception and so forth.

It's interesting to note that the Midnight Peace Treaty was signed on Sept. 10, 1999 - that's precisely nine months until Pentecost, 2000. God uses numbers extemely precisely and without any coincidence involved. It's His signature on His creation! Adding 40 years to June 1967 and deducting for Daniel's seventieth week also brings us to 5760, this year. It's triangulated and confirmed by circumstances, which only God can control and arrange. Extremely high levels of creativity!

And you have documented the new star discovered last Pentecost, and its significance. With the removal of Christians being needed before the Final Framework Agreement, and I would think before the One-World Religion institutes on June 26th, looks like it's being narrowed down to Pentecost this year.

Persistence does pay off!

My reply

> > the Midnight Peace Treaty was signed on Sept. 10, 1999

On Pro and Con 384, I reported, "The Sharm el-Sheik Memorandum (Wye-2) land withdrawal agreement signed Sept. 4, 1999 (one week before the Feast of Trumpets), was ratified Sept. 8. THE FIRST WITHDRAWALS FROM JUDEA and Samaria are to get underway Sept. 10. Negotiations on Permanent Status negotiations are to resume not later than Sep. 13, 1999 (date the Oslo Accords were signed in 1993, and date of Feast of Trumpets, 2007)...A comprehensive agreement on all Permanent Status issues is to be concluded within 1 year from Sept. 13, 1999 (Sept. 13, 2000)." Is that the agreement you are talking about or was there another one?

What you are saying is very interesting, either way, because it was "THE FIRST WITHDRAWALS" on the 10th. I didn't see the significance of that part before. The Pre-Trib Rapture is a FIRST WITHDRAWAL. We sure have to look at every detail, don't we?

The new star was Nova Velorum, found May 22, 1999 (on Shabbat, SIVAN 7, Pentecost) in the reefed sails of the ship ARGO (THE COMPANY OF TRAVELERS) that is backing into the dock. That ship has a representation of Christ's face at the waterline and the ram's head above on the prow. It, like Noah's Ark, represents Christ, our Saviour. We are the travelers in Christ.

Wow! Sivan 7, 2000 also falls on Saturday, Shabbat. At the Rapture, It would be very fitting to be taken to Saturn, Shabbatai, on Shabbat.

I drove Ed and myself right into the end of the rainbow the day I figured out that I thought Sivan 7 was the correct Biblical Day of Pentecost. That was Jan. 26, 1999, just 3 days after the huge gamma ray burster of Jan. 23, 1999. (May 10, 1999, was the 2nd biggest GRB.)

I wonder if the Rapture will turn out to be in the 7th good year, on the 7th day of Sivan, on the 7th day of the week, Shabbat, one day after the 7 x 7 countdown of the Omer's 49 days. I think it will be to the 7th lamp of the lampstand (Saturn) too. Seven means perfection and completion. It is God's number.

Something else is interesting about the countdown of the Omer if it is the final countdown to the Rapture. For starters, it is the ONLY feast of the 7 with such a prescribed countdown. To boot, the countdown is 7 x 7. For good measure, the end of the second 7 is May 5, the date of the planetary lineup that matches the Sun and 6 planets represented by the candlestick.

Keep watching. We are the salt of the Earth, and salt retards the growth of leaven. I have a feeling the salt will be taken out of the dough before June 26. Then the whole lump can be leavened. There wouldn't be enough salt left to stop its puffing up the dough too high. Do you know what happens when a loaf of bread overproofs? It collapses. The measurement of salt is the most critical of any ingredient.

Thanks much for your thoughts. I like Ex. 19:10,11: "sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them wash their clothes, And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down." Agape

Incoming email

To the lady with the poodles, my Yorkie has been with me since she was a baby. She is now eleven years old. She has been with me through sorrow and happiness. She grieves if I am not here and will not eat. She is a personality, she has feelings. She sleeps downstairs on her pillow. One night she came up the stairs and scratched on my door. She had thrown up on the floor, was sick, and came to get me. I spent the rest of the night in my recliner with her on my lap. When my husband died, she stayed by my side and in my lap for three days. Pets are attuned to their keepers. These dear creatures are from God as everyone and everything is. I will do some research using The New Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible and see if I can find further evidence concerning pets. Remember Noah? The rapture is supposed to be as in the days of Noah. He had a whole ark full of animals. Love

My reply

I am so sorry about your husband. I wondered why I kept praying for you, but you came to mind and I included you. God knew better than me why. Agape

Incoming email

In looking at a map of the middle east recently it seemed to hit me how much the country of Jordan which is shaped like an axe blade appears as if the point of its blade is laid at the south tip (at the root) of Israel. When were Jordan's borders fashioned to this shape? As I considered this, Matthew 3:10 came to mind which speaks of "the axe is laid unto the root of the trees" (Israel is the fig tree). If Jordan is the axe blade, that makes Iraq the axe handle. The axe blade can only chop or cut down as it is being controlled by a person through the handle. Since Babylon was in what is now modern Iraq, should this hold prophetic significance for us today?

My reply

I don't see why not. God is in control of all things. Italy is shaped like a leg and foot to conform with Nebuchadnezzar's dream in Daniel 2. You can't miss it if you are alert. If I remember right, after WW II, President Roosevelt drew in the boundaries of Trans Jordan using a ruler.

Iraq was in on the attack on Israel June 5, 1967 too. The countries that attacked were Egypt (hit them on 5 fronts), Saudi Arabia (hit them on two fronts), Jordan (hit them on three fronts), Iraq (hit them on one front), Syria (hit them on 3 fronts) and Lebanon (hit them on one front). Those countries were so sure that they were going to wipe Israel off the map that several of their leaders were blatent about it. On May 25, 1965, President Aref of Iraq said, "THE ARAB NATIONAL AIM IS THE ELIMINATION OF ISRAEL." On Radio Baghdad, June 1, 1967, Aref said, "WE ARE RESOLVED, DETERMINED AND UNITED, TO ACHIEVE OUR CLEAR AIM OF WIPING ISRAEL OFF THE MAP. THIS IS THE DAY TO WASH AWAY THE STAIN GOD WILLING, WE SHALL MEET IN TEL AVIV AND HAIFA."


Speaking of native-born Israelis on June 4, 1967, Ahmed Shukairi, leader of the PLO, said, "THOSE WHO SURVIVE WILL REMAIN IN PALESTINE, BUT I ESTIMATE THAT NOT MANY OF THEM WILL SURVIVE."

Well, looking at the 15 points of attack on this little country on a map, one would expect the Arabs to be able to accomplish exactly what they set out to do. However, they didn't reckon the power of God into their plans. Israel ended up with several times as much land as she had to begin with.

Members of the Arab world have not all given up on their plan. Zech. 14:2,3 says, "For I will gather ALL NATIONS against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle." Agape

Incoming email

FWD: Good post on 5D today:
Jason Seders (14 Apr), "Re:Last Generation"
Adding to Phil's last generation thread. please read his thoughts at It is interesting to note in relation to 40 year period and two seven year periods the following: Joshua and the Israelites entered the promised land after 40 years. But before they won their first battle they were given 2 SEVENS just like Jacob worked for his wives - 2 SEVENS. The Israelites had to march around the walls at Jericho for seven days. On the seventh day the had to march around 7 TIMES! (God seemed to have highlighted this by having 7 priests blow 7 horns). Other examples include Joseph's 2 SEVENS (7 good years, 7 bad years) and Noah's warning - (for yet seven days) and 7 of every clean animal. This may relate to the two periods of seven we might be in now, which may have begun in 1993 with the signing of Oslo and will climax in 2000 with a POSSIBLE rapture, and then the remaining seven years of trouble or Daniels 70th week playing out until 2007!

I also find the fact that the flood judgement story begins in the 6th chapter of Genesis and Jericho judgement is likewise in Joshua chapter 6. Another amazing contribution to the 6000 year earth lease. Is it also a coincidence that the waters ceased in Joshua 3:16 allowing for the antitypical salvation (entering into rest - promised land) of Israel just as John 3:16 declares our salvation through Jesus! Add this to the aforementioned Jordan crossing where Israel followed 2000 cubits - simply awesome!!!

This is all speculation, of course. However, I found Phil's comments absolutely fascinating and deeply profound. The age of adulthood for Israel coming at 19 with the 1967 war - whiched touched of the 40 year countdown. I have found some more info.which relates to this and will try to wrap it up concisely in a new paper that, Lord willing, I will be able to summarize and publish on the web soon. I'll let you know. You may want to consider rereading the following as a refresher in the meantime: Jacob twice worked for seven years - my comments at The first seven years as a type of things to come - my comments at The temple mount refusal in 1967 and a 40 year testing period - my comments at Jason S: - The Swinging Pendulum - Time is Ticking Away "We will not all die, but will be changed in a flash, the last trumpet" I Corinthians 15:51,52

Incoming email

Re: United Religions (UR) - The Pagan Ladder of Works and Jacob's Ladder of Faith
Pro & con 478 peaked my curiosity. The United Religions is abbreviated as UR. I can recall some things I had witnessed concerning the ancient city of Ur (the city of Abraham). Most people are not aware that certain ancient archeological sites in Iraq were off limits during a previous war in the gulf region. Important archeological research at some ancient sites was being conducted and unearthed at the time (some of which continues to be excavated to this very day). One such site continuing down the path of restoration is the ancient city of Babylon (the former home of Nebuchadnezzar)! Another such archeological site off limits was the Ziggurat of Ur (the city of Ur had been the former home of father Abraham). (Definition of Ziggurat: A terraced mound upon which was built a temple. The ziggurat was probably built to set off the temple from the flat plains, and it is likely that the Tower of Babel and Jacob's ladder were both inspired by the sight of a ziggurat.) Both of these ancient sites are two very bold Biblical proofs of the authenticity of Godís Word. I believe both are very relevant to future prophetic events as well (The False Prophet will head up the future headquarters for the United Religions or UR in Babylon). Babylon and Ur really had existed so I did some reading from the Archeological Supplement in my Thompson Chain-Reference Bible about Babylon and the Ziggurat of Ur and its cuneiform tablets or stele (pillars sculptured slabs of stone) found in the cornerstones of these ziggurats (towers/temples/altars). It is interesting to note that ziggurats look sort of like a pyramid with the top third being chopped off to form a platform of worship. There are stairs in the clefts of the hewn out rock which lead to the top of the mound. To paraphrase from the Index of Chain Topics number 4446-Ur on page 1839 in my Thompson Chain-Reference Bible; "The ziggurat was called the Mountain of Heaven and ascended in three stages to a height of 70 feet. The contents of the Ďcorner stoneí or Ďfoundation tabletsí were found at the base of the ziggurat and mentioned the local history occurring at that time. In each of its four corners was a niche in which were inscribed cylinders, or cornerstone records, giving the name of the city, its founder, and those who had rebuilt the ziggurat from time to time. In the rubbish-piled room of a nearby temple was a hoard of cuneiform tablets, in one of which King Nabonidus (556-536 B.C. told of the building and repairing of the great ziggurat from time to time. There is also a prayer to Nannar, the moon god (also known as Sin), for himself and for his eldest son, Belshazzar, that he would be Ďkept from siní and Ďbe satisfied with the abundance of lifeí. These and other inscriptions confirm the biblical account of Belshazzar."

(Note: There is more about the city of Ur to be found in the Index of Chain Topics number 4446-Ur on page 1839 of the Archeological Supplement in a Thompson Chain-Reference Bible. A photo of the ziggurat of Ur can be found on the next page, 1840.) On page 1839, there is a photo from University Museum (Philadelphia) of a stele/pillar of Ur-Nammu which was found on the floor of the Hall of Justice in Ur. The photo of the stele appears to depict a Ladder of Works made of wood and nails by human hands. It appears to me as if people were trying to climb this Ladder of Their Own Works to reach heaven. Heaven is depicted as being the the bright and shining star in the middle of a crescent moon (it looks like a cyclops with only a crescent smile). This is also the religious symbol of the Islamic moon god cult of Allah. This symbol hangs overhead the gods of heaven and king Ur-Nammu of the third Ur dynasty. (Note: Nannar was the tutelary deity of Ur appointed as king of that city by the god of heaven called An. The god of heaven (named An) established Ur-Nammu as his mortal representative, establishing the third Ur dynasty. An has a son of god named Enlil who rapes another goddess named Ninlil. The offspring of the rape was none other than Nanna/Nannar/Sin. How ironic that the product of rape is Sin. This rape is the very antithesis of the virgin birth!)

What really struck me was when I saw the planets (Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn) align real close to the crescent moon on April 6, 2000. Saturn was the closest planet to the crescent moon. I stood in awe as the planet Saturn reflected the glory of the sun like a flaming cherubim. I thought Saturn was going to align itself in the center of the crescent moon that night. I wondered how often a celestial event like this happened. I wondered what the relevance was to what I was witnessing in the heavens, and what I had witnessed in the photo on page 1839 of the Archeological Supplement in a Thompson Chain-Reference Bible.

At the following web site you can view The Treasures from the Royal Tombs of Ur from McClung Museum:

It is important to note on this web site the "Ram (goat) Caught in the Thicket" and the "Gold Bull (golden calf) Amulet." The Ram in the Thicket represents the sacrifice the Father provided by the work of His Hands. The Golden Calf represents the sacrifice man provided by the work of his human hands. Jesus Christ is the Ladder of Faith, hammered together with wood and nails reaching out from earth, ascending like the stairs on a ziggurat to the Mountain of Heaven by the Power of His Resurrection. The Golden Calf is the Ladder of Works, hammered together with the wood and nails of manís own good works, representing counterfeit steps of a pagan ziggurat climbing and ascending to heaven by manís own righteousness. (Note: John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that entereth not by the Door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.) The history of the blood covenant goes all the way back to Adam and Eve. When they sinned, they tried to fix it with the work of their human hands by making a covering out of fig leaves. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin, so God took an animal He had made with His Hands and killed it to provide a covering for them. The knowledge of the blood covenant was passed down to Cain and Abel. They knew what was required to please God because without faith it is impossible. Finally Admit I Trust Him (FAITH). Cain chose to offer the sacrifice of his works, and Abel offered the sacrifice of HIS WORKS! Cainís works were not accepted. Abelís faith in the Works of Godís Provision was accepted. Abelís faith worked to impute unto him the righteousness of Godís Provision (faith+works=faithworks). Cain was jealous of Abel and murdered him. Abel was murdered for his faith.

Remember that Jesus Christ is the Key of Authority to the Net (Jacob's/Israel's Ladder of Faith Gen 28:12 & Jn 1:51, Secret Stairs/Clefts in the Rock SOS 2:8-14, Gate of Heaven/House of God Gen 28:17, door Jn 10:1-9, way Jn 14:6, window/wind+door Rev 4:1, strait gate Mt 7:14, path Ps 16:11). Jesus Christ is the Ladder of Faith who makes the Firstfruits/Raptures of the Resurrection possible (Mt 22:30-33, Lk 20:36, 1 Jn 3:1-2, Jn 1:48-51, Jn 10:1-4, Rev 4:1, Mt 18:10, Mk 10:14-6, Rev 5:9-11, Mt 13:43). There is a Pre-Trib rapture for a glorious church (Eph 5:27) which are the wise Philadelphian virgins (Rev 3:7-8). There is a Mid-Trib rapture for the two witnesses, Moses and Elijah (Rev 11:12). Lazurus is a type of Moses; Lazurus was raised from the dead to face physical death again, so too will Moses be raised to face physical death one final time. There is a Pre-Wrath rapture (Rev 3:20, James 5:9, Rev 7:9) for the foolish & blind Laodician Tribulation Saints. There is a Post-Trib Second Advent which is HIS Second Coming with All His Saints (Rev 19:6)!

My reply

Thanks so much for all this very interesting information. I'll visit that URL too. Agape

Incoming email

I just got done viewing some or your site. I must say it is refreshing to know others believe as I do. I have book marked this site and will return to read more. Thank you

Incoming email

Subject: Revelation Please consider this, There is only one Rapture. When scripture says that Every eye will see Him, Even those who pierced Him, it is talking about when The Son of Man comes to claim His followers. You cannot divide the body of Christ, and neither will He. The Old Testament points forward to the Redemptive sacrifice of the Messiah, and the New Testament points to the completion of that process when Christ returns for those who accepted the Sacrifice and Entered into the Kingdom of God. Therefore, whether you were a believer who lived before Christ's Sacrifice or one living after, Your salvation is in Christ and Him only. If you will not listen to men, but God, you will find that the righteous man lives by his faith and that is the criteria that God judges man by. Was not the foriegner allowed to join in the Law? Was Abraham under the law when he received the promise? Did not Enoch testify of the coming redemption of the Sacrifice of the Lamb? Did not Paul (the Jew of Jews) go to the gentile with the same words that Peter (the Rock of the Church) went to the Jew? If you will listen to scripture, you will find that God does not show partiality but that in every nation, the man who chooses Christ is acceptable to Him. This statement is True. Christ was found Holy and Blameless before His Crusifixion, but was not the sacrifice until the sacrifice was made. Christ is the Head of All Things and in all ways, identified Himself both as God and Man that we might have intercession through Him. He leads us in birth, baptism, ministry, living, testimony, faithfulness, love, tribulation, death and resurrection. So as the Head is, so shall the body follow. Six days before the passover, Christ was anointed for His death, the next day, he was presented in Jerusalem. He was tested and found true, he was plotted against in the middle of the week and betrayed on passover. He was crucified on the seventh day and on the third day later, He rose from the dead. Pay heed, Christ is the Head of the Church! If you look at the events described in all the prophecies concerning the end, you will see the same pattern. The people of God are sealed, Half way through a 7 year period, these people are plotted against. In the seventh year, a great separation occurs in which believers are harvested to be with the Lord and the Temple in Heaven is filled so that no one else may enter. Then there is a period of time when those left on earth are in the dark and left to the whims of the devil, and the wrath of God. The end of the Wrath is a Return when Christ and His Holy Bride reclaim the Earth for God. It is the same pattern of Christ's life. Born, Baptised, Ministered, tested, betrayed, removed, returned. Please don't nitpick, believers will not be separated twice. The destiny of every believer is death "on the cross" which means that the person who is looking for the eternal with God must forsake all in this life, and live for Christ. If God required it of His Son and His Son says that His followers must take up their cross and follow Him, will God not also require it of His Kingdom which is the Church? To make a distinction between ourselves in the Flesh (ie. jew, gentile, white, black, etc.) is to go against God for we are all of one mother, and our father is God! Remember that God is Spirit and those who worship Him must worship in Spirit and Truth. God will divide us all by our relationship through faith in Him, which is Spirit without regard to the Flesh....God Help us all.

My reply

> > There is only one Rapture...The people of God are sealed, Half way through a 7 year period, these people are plotted against. In the seventh year, a great separation occurs in which believers are harvested to be with the Lord and the Temple in Heaven is filled so that no one else may enter.

That's ok, the blind have eyes but can't see too. We are each responsible for our own choices. You'll find out soon enough. Even Isa. 57:1 says, "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that THE RIGHTEOUS IS TAKEN AWAY FROM THE EVIL TO COME."

> > When scripture says that Every eye will see Him, Even those who pierced Him, it is talking about when The Son of Man comes to claim His followers.

Zech. 12: 9,10 says, " And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem." That is the first day of the Millennium. "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have PIERCED, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

That is the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture. There is one before the Tribulation, when the Lord comes to the "open door" set before the Philadelphians in Rev. 3:8 and, with a voice like a trumpet, says, "Come up hither" (Rev. 4:1). That is the first trump (I Thess. 4:13-18). You can wait until the last trump though, if you want to. There is a last trump (I Cor. 15:51,52). The first is as the days of Noah (no fire falls, only water, symbol of the Spirit of God). The second is as the days of Lot (fire falls that same day). Lu. 17:29 says, "But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all."

Rev. 8-11 says, "behold, I have set before thee an OPEN DOOR, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name...Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee FROM the hour of temptation (peirasmos, trial), which shall come (future tense) upon ALL the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly (no time for every eye to see him this time): hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown." I am holding fast.

Even Isa. 57:1 says, "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are TAKEN AWAY, none considering that THE RIGHTEOUS IS TAKEN AWAY FROM THE EVIL TO COME."

> > You cannot divide the body of Christ, and neither will He

He already has. The head of the Body of Christ is already in Heaven today. One group is seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9. The other group is seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:14. The wise virgins are divided from the foolish virgins in Mt. 25. The foolish virgins are left behind when the Bridegroom comes. The Philadelphians are divided from the Laodiceans, who are spewed out of his mouth (Rev. 3:16). The second group have to wash their robes in the blood of Christ to make them white. The first group bought their oil of the Holy Spirit in time. The second group didn't. They are the foolish virgins.

> >Please don't nitpick, believers will not be separated twice.

You will find out soon enough.

> > The destiny of every believer is death "on the cross" which means that the person who is looking for the eternal with God must forsake all in this life, and live for Christ.

What happens to those who accept Christ, but do not "forsake all in this life, and live for Christ"? In Rev. 3:19, Jesus tells them, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." If they don't listen, it isn't his fault.

> > To make a distinction between ourselves in the Flesh (ie. jew, gentile, white, black, etc.)

What Christian does that? I hope you don't have a chip on your shoulder. Gal. 3:28 says, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

> > God Help us all

Amen. If the Rapture were to happen, this Pentecost, would you be ready? Agape

   Pro and Con 488    Or Return   Home

Contact me for more information at:

Send me e-mail now

8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110

© 1996-2000, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 4-16-00