Pro and Con 501

Posted 5-5-00

Incoming email

Thank you very much for your reply to my email of yesterday. If you don't mind I would like to continue the exchange as I feel sure we both have the same desire. i.e., to 'rightly divide the word of truth'.

With regard to my scenario on the two witnesses you wrote:

"It doesn't seem reasonable to me. If the first half of the Tribulation is 1260 days, why do you think the sacrificing stops then? Something has to happen to cause it. I can't accept that it is going to be 1260 days + another 1290 days BEFORE the abomination is placed."

First, it does not seem reasonable to me, Marilyn, that the two witnesses would begin their witnessing at the beginning of the 7 years. We are not told about them until 11th chapter of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Second, I do not, as you suppose, think the sacrificing stops at the beginning of the 7 years. It does not stop until the beast breaks the covenant with Israel at the mid-point of the 7 years.

With regard to the duration of the tribulation period you wrote:

"We agree on the first 1260 days of the Tribulation, then the 2 witnesses are killed. There are 1260 days in the first half of the 7 years and 1260 days in the second half. Those 2520 days are only shortened to 2300 (Dan. 8:14) for the elect (Mt. 24:22), so now we're dealing with 1260 days + 1260 days. Let's compare Rev. 12 and Dan. 12. In Rev. 12, we find that Satan is cast down to Earth when he only has dominion over Earth for another 1260 days. Dominion will be taken away from him at the Judgment of the Nations at the end of the 2520 days. So what does Satan do? He persecutes Israel."

Yes, Dear Lady, we agree on the first 1260 days, there will be 1260 literal days and they will constitute the first half of the last week of Daniel's 70 weeks of years. However I disagree about the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14. This prophecy was fulfilled in the persecution of Israel by Antiochus Epiphanes, following the reign of Alexander the Great. History attests to that. Further, if we agree that Satan is cast out of heaven at the midpoint of the 7 years and has 'dominion' for 1260 days then I do not see how the end can come in just 1040 days. If Satan has his dominion taken away in 1040 days then something is amiss. That does not make sense.

Finally, in regard to Daniel 12:11, you wrote:

"According the Dan. 12, there are three sets of days that start when that abomination of desolation is placed in the holy place Mid-Trib. They are 1260 days, 1290 days, and 1335 days. The 1260 days are the "time, times, and an half" (3.5 years = 1260 days) of v. 7. Dan. 12:11 says, "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." The extra 30 days may be for mourning the dead and departed. Daniel is to stand in his own lot of land in Israel on the 1335th day."

Yes, indeed, three sets of days, following 'mid-trib', following the first 1260 days. Another thing we agree on. Praise the Lord! I also think you will agree that interpreting prophetic scriptures is rather like putting a jigsaw puzzle together. If you have pieces left over the picture is incorrect. I suggest, therefore, that you reexamine your 'jigsaw puzzle' because it appears you have two pieces of the puzzle left over. You are conjecturing about the extra 30 days and appear to have no place to put the additional 45 days .

I respectfully suggest, ma'am, that you give thoughtful consideration to the wording of Daniel 12:11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, ( please note the comma, implying, I think, a separation between two clauses) and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, (comma, again, end of the second clause) there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." Even commas are important in 'rightly dividing".

In closing, on a separate, but related, subject, I think you will agree that neither the bride nor the groom at a wedding feast are ever classified as guests and, if you do, then I have to ask who you think the guests are in the parable of the 'wedding feast of the king', in Matthew 22? There is, I think, a logical explanation that ties the 144,000, the 2 witnesses and the 'second rapture saints' together very neatly and gives a rational explanation for the man who does not have a white robe - without any unused pieces, I might add. If you are interested I will send it to you. God bless you.

My reply

> > it does not seem reasonable to me, Marilyn, that the two witnesses would begin their witnessing at the beginning of the 7 years.

I think they do. They are Moses and Elijah. Mal. 4:5,6 says, " Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."

I think the curse is the asteroid that hits the Earth on the 2300th day of the Tribulation. That is the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. There would not be 1260 days for Moses and Elijah to prophesy unless it was in the first half of the Tribulation.

The reason for the False Prophet killing the two witnesses is what happens Mid-Trib when he places the abomination of desolation at the temple. Dan. 9:27 in the very literal Concordant Version says, "Then he will be master of a covenant with many for one seven: at half of the seven (Mid-Trib), he will cause to cease the sacrifice and the approach present; on a wing of the sanctuary shall be desolating abominations."

Both witnesses "have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy" (Rev. 11:6). This is why the famine happens when the 3rd seal is broken in Rev. 6.

Rev. 11 is parenthetical. In between the 6th and 7th seals, the 6th and 7th trumpets and the 6th and 7th vails are parenthetical sections. We have to look for match marks to know where to place them in time.

> > I do not, as you suppose, think the sacrificing stops at the beginning of the 7 years. It does not stop until the beast breaks the covenant with Israel at the mid-point of the 7 years.

I didn't think you meant at the beginning of the 7 years. I meant that the sacrificing stops in Mid Trib, after the first 1260 days have run their course. Sacrificing stops when the 2 witnesses are killed.

> > I disagree about the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14. This prophecy was fulfilled in the persecution of Israel by Antiochus Epiphanes, following the reign of Alexander the Great.

Antiochus was a type of the False Prophet. If you don't think the 2300 days applies, how long is the shortened Tribulation? Mt. 24:22 says, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Did you ever count the days between the Feast of Weeks in 2001 and the Feast of Trumpets in 2007? By Jewish inclusive reckoning, they are exactly 2300 days. That is not true in any other set of years left to us within the 40 years since the Sign of the End of the Age in 1967.

> > if we agree that Satan is cast out of heaven at the midpoint of the 7 years and has 'dominion' for 1260 days then I do not see how the end can come in just 1040 days. If Satan has his dominion taken away in 1040 days then something is amiss. That does not make sense.

Satan does not have his dominion taken away until the 2520 days have run their course. The shortening is for the elect. They are caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture on the 2300th day. All the wicked are still on Earth. The False Prophet is deposed on the 2300th day, but Satan, as "the eighth" (Rev. 17:11), and as the tail of the great red dragon, operates on his own the rest of the time.

> > you have two pieces of the puzzle left over. You are conjecturing about the extra 30 days and appear to have no place to put the additional 45 days .

I said, "The extra 30 days may be for mourning the dead and departed. Daniel is to stand in his own lot of land in Israel on the 1335th day." 1260 days + 30 = 1290. 1290 days plus 45 = 1335. It was customary to mourn 30 days. Nu. 20:29 says, "And when all the congregation saw that Aaron was dead, they mourned for Aaron thirty days, even all the house of Israel." Dan. 12:13 tells us what Daniel will do on the 1335th day. It says, "But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days." Israel will again be divided among the 12 tribes by lot. Daniel will stand in his own plot of ground on the 1335th day.

> > I respectfully suggest, ma'am, that you give thoughtful consideration to the wording of Daniel 12:11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, ( please note the comma, implying, I think, a separation between two clauses) and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, (comma, again, end of the second clause) there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." Even commas are important in 'rightly dividing".

No punctuation was in the original. Not even spaces between words were in the original.

Dan. 12:11,12 in the literal Concordant Version says, "From the era when the continuous ritual is taken away, and to the setting of the abomination of desolation, is a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Happy is he who will tarry and attain to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five day! Now you, go on to the end, and you shall rest and stand up for your lot at the end of the days."

> > There is, I think, a logical explanation that ties the 144,000, the 2 witnesses and the 'second rapture saints' together very neatly and gives a rational explanation for the man who does not have a white robe

Send it. I am always wanting to know what others have discerned. I learn all the time. Agape

Incoming email

Re: June 10th, 2000 I love your web site, been reading daily for about a year, I am a new christian since about three years ago. Did you know that June 10th 2000 is Global Walk for Jesus Day!! Can you imagine all the saints across the globe walking and praising the name of The Lord, and have Him show up!!!!!Look up for our redemption draweth NEAR!!!

My reply

Yes. It is funny that they picked that date for Jesus Day. If the Rapture would take place at midnight on Sivan 6 or 7, the Bride would be missing from their celebrations.

Incoming email

Do you think it is significant that Esther presented herself to the King in his inner chamber after THREE DAYS. In His Love P.S, I think the insight into a woman going into labour pangs after 40 weeks was very significant, a well thought out point by that person in pro & con 499

My reply

Yes. Esther (hidden, secret, or star) is a type of the Bride of Christ. Vashti (beautiful) wouldn't come when called, so the king took Esther as his bride.

Esth. 4:16 says, "Go, gather together all the Jews that are present in Shushan, and fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days, night or day: I also and my maidens will fast likewise; and so will I go in unto the king, which is not according to the law (the largely Gentile Bride is like that, and up to this time, Esther had not disclosed her people): and if I perish, I perish." Esth. 5:1,2 says, " Now it came to pass ON THE THIRD DAY, that ESTHER PUT ON HER ROYAL APPAREL (we need to be wearing white robes), and stood in the inner court of the king's house, over against the king's house: and the king sat upon his royal throne in the royal house, over against the GATE of the house. And it was so, when the king saw Esther the queen standing in the court, that she obtained favour in his sight: and THE KING HELD OUT TO ESTHER THE GOLDEN SCEPTRE that was in his hand. So Esther drew near, and touched the top of the sceptre."

After that, Haman and his 10 sons were killed. Don't they remind you of the Satan possessed False Prophet and the 10 kings?

I agree about the 40-week gestation being very significant, tying in as it does with the 40 years before all Israel shall be born in a day. Two or more heads are better than one. There is so much to know, and so little time. Agape

Incoming email

Subject: Location of Heavan
Thank you for your dedication and devotion to the Word of God. I just wanted to take a moment and express a view that you may not agree with. The Universe is majestic and it screams with the Glory of God. However, placing Heaven as the planet Saturn, I believe limits that Glory. I am not saying that it is not. But I think when Jesus talks about Heaven and states tha "No eye has seen and no man can conceive what God has planned for those who love him" (As you are aware, that is not a direct quote) The location of Heaven, really isn't a debate that Christains should worry about. Just that there is a Heaven, and if you give your Life to Jesus, you will see it.

Heaven very well may be within or inside what we define as Space. God is eternal, the universe which is created by God is wonderful. But general physics and laws that we are subject to are defined by the principle of Thermal Dynamics. One Billion years or One Trillion years from now the Sun will die and the Earth will Die. Star are born, and they eventually burn out. God's own Glory lights heaven. It will NEVER burn out or fade away.

Sorry for the long e-mail. This is just my personal view. Again, thank you for your incredible hard work and dedication to spreading the Gospel of Jesus

My reply

You are certainly welcome to your opinion. I didn't set out to find out where the throne of Christ was located. It just happened along the way to looking up other things.

Please tell me how you interpret these verses:

Eze. 1:26-28: "And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a THRONE, as the appearance of a SAPPHIRE stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it. And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and IT HAD BRIGHTNESS ROUND ABOUT. As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about." Some translations have from the equator upward, and from the equator downward.

Rev. 4:3: "And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a RAINBOW ROUND ABOUT THE THRONE, in sight like unto an emerald."

Rev. 4:6: "And before the THRONE there was a sea of glass like unto crystal."

Ex. 24:10: "And they saw the God of Israel: and there was UNDER HIS FEET as it were a paved work of a SAPPHIRE stone, and as it were the BODY OF HEAVEN in his clearness."

Zech. 3:9,10 (LXX): "I bring forth my servant The Branch. For as for the stone which I have set before the face of Jesus, on the one stone are seven eyes." Agape

Incoming email

Re: Enoch Type of Rapture?
Your web site is great! I'm so excited just the thought of eternity with Jesus and His Bride. The Lord, has been putting on my heart that His return is very soon. I often find myself getting lost in His presence in my quiet time with Him while crying, He is impressing upon my heart something very big (His Glory) is coming really soon! We all must stay in daily repentance.(Times of refreshing) 2 Chron 7:14 "If My people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

Very exciting times were living in, its hard to keep up there is so much fulfilling prophecies everyday. The signs seem to point to His returning Rapture year 2000 or at the latest 2001.

Have you heard of Dr. Richard Eby? He had a near death experience were the Lord Jesus told him He would return for His bride (rapture) before Dr. Eby retires from his earthly ministry. Dr. Eby is now around 90 years old.

One prophecy question? How does Enoch (type) of the rapture fit into times of Noah Since Enoch was taken up I think hundreds of years before Noah was even born? Jesus said "As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man" Matt 25:37 Gen 6 DAYS OF NOAH 1.People were eating, drinking, marrying , and giving in marriage. with no regard for God. (Definitely today's society)
2. Gen 6:1 Huge increase in population. (Earth presently has population of over 6 billion people.)
3. Gen 6:4 Giant men, mighty men of renown [extremely weathly, powerful influential men] (Today a handful of the wealthiest men control the entire world.)
4. Gen 6 :5 ,6:11-13, 8:21 Every imagination and intention of all human thinking was only evil continually. 6:11 13 Earth was corrupt (depraved, putrid before Gods sight) and full of violence ( desecration, infringement, outrage, assault, and lust for power.) 8:21 Every inclination of mans heart is evil from childhood. (Today violence and evil is rampant just read the newspapers, watch the news. Kids killing kids.)

WATCH And PRAY, WERE ALMOST HOME! All praises to my love, life, and king eternal Jesus

My reply

Thanks for those kind words. Yes, I've heard of Dr. Eby's experience.

> > How does Enoch (type) of the rapture fit into times of Noah

Enoch himself was the type. His name means experienced, teacher, or dedicated. He actually experienced the Rapture. He was a prophet, i.e., a teacher (Jude 14). He was obviously dedicated.

Seventh from Adam, 365 years old, Enoch was a Gentile who was caught up in a time of peace because he walked with God. It may turn out that the Gentile Bride who walks with God will be caught up in the 7th 365-day year of the 7 good years. We will have to wait and see.

Mt. 24:37 says, "as the DAYS of Noe." The emphasis is on the days. Noah means rest. Mt. 11:28 says, "COME UNTO ME, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." Noah believed and obeyed God even though the world did not. The world went on with their usual business and "knew not until the flood came" (Mt. 24:39). Noah was in the Ark (i.e., in Christ), the door closed, and it began to rain. The Spirit of Christ is symbolized by water, "living water." Noah was lifted up by the water (i.e., by the Spirit of Christ).

Rom. 8:9 says, "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the SPIRIT OF CHRIST, he is none of his." Jer. 2:13, says, "For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of LIVING WATERS, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water." Jn. 7:38 says, "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of LIVING WATER."

Christ will come down like the rain. His first and second comings are as the former and latter rains (Hos. 6:3). Sandwiched between those, is his coming at the Rapture. In 30 AD, on Pentecost, the Spirit of Christ came down to the church. Maybe Christ will come down to the church on Pentecost this year too. Hope so.

Rev. 3:3 says, " hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." I'm watching.

The talks between Israel and the Palestinians, re: final status, reopen Monday in Eilat. The Riverside, CA, Press-Telegram ran "Israeli-Arab talks move toward real deal," by Thomas Friedman, today (5-4-00). He ends up with, "This is not a test. This is the real deal. Completing and implementing it are going to be wrenching experiences. Not doing so will be a disaster." He thinks the Palestinians will get back 90 % of the West Bank and Gaza for their state. The other 10 % of the West Bank is where Israeli settlers live. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Two Simple Questions
The word "seven" appears 54 times in Revelation. I know because I counted 3 times! When 54 is divided by the number 7 ("seven") the answer comes to 7.7142857. I wondered if this number fit in any way into your Projected Chronology of End-time Events (June 2000 thru May 2008; i.e. 7 year 7 month Tribulation Period)? Please refer to i.(6) and i.(9) of the Chronology of End-time Events. Where does the number 7.7142857 fit into your Chronology of End-time Events if at all? Just wondering if there is any relevance at all.

My reply

I can't see much more than you did, the 7s fit the 7 years and the 7 months. 2 x 7 = 14, 2 x 14 = 28, 2 x 28 = 56, close to what you got. Don't know how that would fit in though.

Incoming email

Subject: Heavenly Signs People are too quick to believe every word the doom sayers write. In P/C 498 for example, someone talks of the planetary alignment and quotes an article stating that this alignment is an "Unprecedented celestial sign." They point to http://www.prophetech.com/stars/May7_2000.htm and quote "On this day, Venus, Mercury, the Sun, Jupiter, Saturn, Mars and the Moon, will all align in the heavens. This is an event that has never occurred before!"

WRONG! While such alignments are rare to the extent that they don't happen every day or even every year, they do happen with regularity. This particluar alignment has happened on 28 different occassions in the last 2000 years according to astronomer Jean Meeus. And not once during those occurances did tidal forces flood the earth or gravitational forces tip the earth over.

God will certainly display His power and present us with signs in the heavens as He has promised, but it stretches the imagination to believe that every natural wonder that occurs, and which has been occuring since the dawn of time, must be a sign of the end time. There is entirely too much emphasis being placed on every astronomical event that occurs today, and the doom sayers are having a field day selling their wild speculations.

The Word of God, the Bible, is where the focus needs to be. Something truely unusual might warrent our attention, but not such planetary alignments as are about to occur.

My reply

I don't expect anything to happen because of the alignment. I know they have happened in the past. However, I am not afraid to look this straight in the face and say, "Maybe it could be a sign." Lu. 21:25 says, "And there shall be signs in the SUN, and in the MOON, and in the STARS." Verse 28 says, "And when these things BEGIN to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." I wouldn't want to miss a sign. If it isn't, it won't hurt anything to look into the possibility. If it is, our "redemption draweth nigh."

God can sure use natural laws to bring this about AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME. He set everything in motion in the beginning. In this lineup, besides the Moon, we learn that the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn are involved. Strangely enough, those are the same heavenly bodies that the candlestick in the temple represented. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit.

Rev. 1:20 says, "the seven candlesticks which thou sawest ARE the seven churches," and we know that there are seven branches to each candlestick. Seven means completion. Could this lineup of seven "planetes," heavenly bodies that travel along the ecliptic, represent the church in Heaven?

We are the temple of the Holy Spirit. In the temple were candlesticks that represented this particular lineup. The churches are represented by candlesticks. Where do they belong? in the heavenly temple. Is it possible that this is a sign that we will be there soon?

Rev. 2:5 says. "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of HIS PLACE, except thou repent." Is this lineup showing us that THE PLACE of this candlestick is in the heavens? God doesn't miss a trick in showing us all possible clues.

In Jn. 14:2-4, Jesus said, "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare A PLACE for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know." This is really HIS PLACE, as in Rev. 2:5. We are really going there. We know where it is, and we know the way to get there. Jesus said, "whither I go ye KNOW, and the way ye KNOW." Is this lineup pointing to HIS PLACE? On the candlestick, the western lamp represented the Sun (always kept burning). The eastern lamp represented Saturn.

Gen. 3:24 says, "So he drove out the man; and he placed at the EAST of the garden of Eden Cherubims (planets), and a flaming sword which turned every way (the asteroid, the Sword of the Lord), to keep the way of (lit., to) the tree of life." The tree of life is now in Heaven (Rev. 22:2). Nu. 2:3 says, "And on the EAST side toward the rising of the sun shall they of the standard of the camp of JUDAH (Jesus is of the tribe of Judah) pitch throughout their armies."

Eze. 10:19 says, "the cherubims (planets) lifted up their wings, and mounted up from the earth in my sight: when they went out, the wheels (orbits) also were beside them, and EVERY ONE STOOD AT THE DOOR of the east gate of the LORD's house; and the glory of the God of Israel was over them above" (on Saturn). Door is a symbol of the Rapture in Rev. 3:8. Could this lineup of planets be like Ezekiel's vision of the planets, when every one of the planets stood at the door? This lineup of planets may be showing us that the door of Heaven is about to open. They too, may stand "AT THE DOOR."

Regardless of when lineups of various kinds have happened in the past, don't you at least find the tie-in with the temple and churches interesting? This seems to be happening near the time of the Rapture. Are the seven churches being represented as if in Heaven? I'm not going to say, "No," because maybe they are. Why is it happening at this PARTICULAR TIME before Heaven's door opens? God controls all things. Agape


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