Pro and Con 507

Posted 5-14-00

Note: Greg Alston's Prophecy Post just arrived. His note #2 is very interesting. He gave me permission to post it.

"If one could translate the 1260 days of Revelation 13:5 to 1260 years, a rather fascinating insight emerges. Emperor Justinian officially recognized the Church of Rome in A.D. 538. Exactly 1260 years later, in 1798, the Pope was taken prisoner by General Napoleon Bonaparte, thus temporarily ending the papacy's rule. Revelation 13:1-5 describes the Beast as suffering a mortal head wound and later returning to life. The papacy was 'mortally wounded' in 1798, but re-established in 1929 when the Italian government recognized the Vatican as an official State."

Incoming email

Re: The Marriage of the Lamb
I'm praying for you and your family to stay well, alert, energetic and full of wisdom until the time Jesus comes for us.

It seems that every time I have a question for you, it involves the marriage of the Lamb. This time I have a question on the TIMING of the Marriage of the Lamb. You say it will be on The Feast of Trumpets, Sept 13, 2007. If the Bride has been raptured on Pentecost, before the beginning of the seven years of Tribulation, what are we doing up there for those seven years? Why don't you believe that the marriage takes place just after the rapture. The Jewish custom has been for the newly weds to 'honeymoon' for one week, produce the proof of covenant (the shedding of blood), and at the end of the seven days, come out to celebrate with the wedding guests at the supper. The Second Rapture will bring all those who were left behind as well as those who have believed since the first rapture. It will also bring those not resurrected in the first rapture. Those are the invited guests to the celebration of the Marriage Supper.

I have been taking your chronology of end-time events and trying to put scripture to it. It has brought out another question:

Are there two separate human people known as the Beast and the False Prophet? It seems to me that the Beast (the Tribulation Pope) operates basically on his own for the first half of the tribulation. Then he suffers a mortal wound, and at that time, his 'wound' is healed because satan has entered his body and 'resurrected' him. Then he is known as the 'False Prophet'. That would be only one person, plus the devil. In Rev. 19:20 where it says 'the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet...These TWO were cast alive into the lake of fire....' The word 'with', according to Strong's, means "denoting union; with or together, but much closer...; companionship, POSSESSION." This leads me to believe that after the beast receives his mortal wound, he is indwelt by satan. He is then treated as separate from satan at the judgement and then the two, the person who is the beast and the actual devil, are thrown into the lake of fire. Am I heading in the right direction on this?

In Acts 2:1, the word says, "And when the day of Pentecost had FULLY come..." Could that be as was mentioned in earlier P&C the timing for the rapture will be at the exact point when it is 'fully' Pentecost all over the world?

You are truly a "Mother of Israel" and you have MANY spiritual children. I, for one, would like to take a moment on this Mother's Day (which one of your P&C's said could actually be the Jewish Pentecost...) to call you 'Blessed' and say THANK YOU for your wisdom and insight. Maranantha!

My reply

Thanks for your kind words.

> > what are we doing up there for those seven years?

Job 5:24 says, "And thou shalt know that thy tabernacle shall be in peace; and thou shalt VISIT THY HABITATION, and shalt not sin." Psa. 149:5 says, "Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds."

> > Why don't you believe that the marriage takes place just after the rapture.

Ruth was not married immediately, neither was Esther. They are both types. It seems that the 144,000 Israelites are also to be part of the Bride. In Rev. 14:4,5, "they are VIRGINS...being the FIRSTFRUITS...THEY ARE without fault before the throne of God."

The Marriage of the Lamb follows Christ's Coronation, but on the same day. Rev. 19:6,7 says, "And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent REIGNETH. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for THE MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB IS COME, and his wife hath made herself ready."

Song of Sol. 3:11 (KJV) says, "Go forth, O ye daughters of Zion, and behold king Solomon (type of the greater Son of David) with the crown wherewith his mother crowned him in the day of his espousals (chathunnah, wedding), and in the day of the gladness of his heart." The Concordant Version says, "Come forth (i.e., Rapture 2), O daughters of Zion, and SEE (i.e., in Heaven) king Solomon (i.e., Christ), With the crown with which his mother CROWNED HIM ON THE DAY OF HIS WEDDING, And on the day of the rejoicing of his heart."

> > Are there two separate human people known as the Beast and the False Prophet?

Yes, they are two different people, each set up to rule 1260 days. The Beast rules during the first half of the Tribulation, the False Prophet during the latter half. Dan. 7:23-26 says, "The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom (Roman) upon earth, which shall be diverse (different because it is Ecclesiastical Rome) from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth (be over the world government), and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces (10 regions that have already been decided upon). And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise (each over one of the 10 regions): and ANOTHER (the False Prophet) shall rise AFTER THEM; and he shall be DIVERSE FROM THE FIRST (i.e., the Beast, under whom are 10 kings), and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time (3.5 years). But the judgment shall sit and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end."

The False Prophet is ANOTHER. At the time of the Rapture, Rev. 17:10 says, "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the OTHER is not yet come." The 5 that have fallen are the kings over Babel, Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece and Rome. The one that "is" is the Pope, over Ecclesiastical Rome. The OTHER, the False Prophet, has not yet come. Rev. 13:11 tells us when ANOTHER comes. It is after the Tribulation Pope has ruled his 1260 days.

Dan. 7:8 says, "I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them ANOTHER little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things."

Rev. 19:20 says, "And the BEAST was taken, and with him the FALSE PROPHET that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These BOTH were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

> > after the beast receives his mortal wound, he is indwelt by satan

It is the False Prophet that is indwelt by Satan. Satan is cast down to Earth Mid-Trib right when the False Prophet takes over. Rev. 13:11 says that he speaks as a dragon.

Jer. 51:44 says, "And I will punish Bel in Babylon, and I will bring forth out of his mouth that which he hath swallowed up: and the nations shall not flow together any more unto him: yea, the wall of Babylon shall fall."

Rev. 17:11 shows us that Satan, the tail of the great red dragon, becomes "the eighth." He operates on his own after the False Prophet is deposed on the Day of God's Wrath.

> > In Acts 2:1, the word says, "And when the day of Pentecost had FULLY come..." Could that be as was mentioned in earlier P&C the timing for the rapture will be at the exact point when it is 'fully' Pentecost all over the world?

I don't know, but it sounds logical that it could happen that way. Agape

Incoming email

Re: More signs April 28 and May 5 On Friday April 28, there was a double rainbow again in our area. It was the same circumstances as the one I saw on March 11. It was around 5pm on Friday, and It was 70% clear blue sky. Within an hour, clouds that were a mass of water droplets (unusual because you could see the rain suspended but NOT falling) moved in very rapidly (just like March 11), a double rainbow formed for about ten minutes, and just as soon as it had begun, it was all over and it was 70% clear blue sky again! After this I thought of informing the web site readers, but honestly felt as if some of the readers were going to groan, roll their eyes, and think "here is that rainbow guy again". So I let it be. Well exactly SEVEN days later on May 5 (which is the first of the heavenly menorah alignments), what should happen at EXACTLY 4pm? Not another rainbow, but the following. Again it was 70% clear blue sky and about 3:30 in the afternoon. Suddenly, huge storm clouds came in from somewhere, the loudest thunder I have ever heard in my life began (it literally shook the ground, and I admit it really was frightening to me) and lightning began. At exactly 4pm HUGE hailstones began to fall. And it was a torrent of them. More than I have ever seen. According to the weather experts it has to be less than 5C for this to happen, and that is a cold temperature for here (Vancouver BC area) in the month of May. My point is it is unusual. So I went to the weather almanac to see when the last record low was for this day, and it was back in 1948! May 14, 1948 was when Israel became a nation. Here is the really interesting part.

From a Hebrew Calendar for May 14 of 1948, I see that date was one day before "Kedoshim" which literally means "Holy Ones: Martyrs". I am not sure but is this related to "Holocaust Remembrance"? (I think it is). From a Hebrew Calendar for May 5 of 2000 I see the date is EXACTLY as 1948, one day before "Kedoshim". Now let's go to the bible. Exodus 9:23 - The SEVENTH plague of hail. In that day, many people did not believe the words of God, and they suffered from the judgement. Job 38:22-32 - Jehovah is speaking to Job. "hast thou seen the treasures of the hail?"

Revelation 8:7 - God is going to use a hail of stones for judgement on the "day of the Lord" This is the first woe of the blowing of the SEVEN trumpets. When the hail came down on Egypt, we are told that ".. the hail smote every herb of the field, and brake every tree of the field (Ex 9:25). In Rev 8:5 we are told of thunders, lightnings, and an earthquake. Thunder denotes the approach of God's Judgement. (I did not experience an earthquake, but the ground shook here from the thunder, close enought for me!)

Recall that when the high priest of Israel took a censer with him as he carried the blood into the Holy of Holies, the prayers ascended as incense, and the answer (thunder) came down. These thunders were the intelligent direction of God and not the purposeless working of natural forces. I do not know every who reads this web site, but speaking for our household, our prayers are based on a desperate call for help from down here. We are being sifted as wheat almost daily. Our financial, family, health, and psychological woes are VERY real. Our family is being tested every day, each member of our household. I accept by faith the event of May 5, 2000 is an answer to us. This is exactly the answer to our prayers for redemption and judgement to those who persecute us.

The hail in Exodus 9:22-25 spoke to the Egyptians. This world is being spoken to the same way right now. Judgement is coming. Man is not wise to go on as if nothing is going to happen. It was that way in the days of Noah, and it is that way right now as the judgement is about to begin. Many people in Egypt did not believe God, and they paid the price for their unbelief. God is asking all the world to believe him now. Soon it will be too late for many.

DIFFERENT SUBJECT: Many people are writing in trying to figure out carnal christian definitions. Study the activities of Lot. He was a carnal christian. God did not destroy Sodom and Gommorah until Lot was out of there. Lot's wife was not even a carnal christian. She loved the world (she looked back) and perished. Noah was a Spirit Filled Christian. He was told when the flood was, and knew to stay in the ark, just like us Spirit Filled Christians today. He patiently gave the message of Salvation for 120 years without ONE single convert! Could any of us match that?

LAST SUBJECT: As you were inspired to figure out what the Cherubims of Ezekiel were, I became determined to discern "seraphs" or "seraphim"as the KJV Bible calls it. Marilyn, they are Menorah's. That is why they have six wings (extremities). That is why they are seen in the temple with the Lord Jesus Christ with his robe (the tent or tabernacle). They are burning (seraph). They have the Cherubs or planets of the solar system on each of the branches. Because the Cherubs are on top of the "Seraphim" (Menorah), this is why man has forever been trying to call them a creature with wings, just like man has been trying to call cherubs as creatures with wings. All these movies, television shows and commercials, and artwork showing men and angels flying around with wings on their back is really offensive to me, because it is so incorrect. Agape

Email 2
...When I read P&C 504 last page my heart really skipped a beat. By the way, further to that comment on what "Kedoshim" is, it appears from my investigations that it is Independence for Israel.

Also, I was fascinated to see that you had another discussion of "Seraphim" in P&C 502, which I read AFTER I sent the e-mail of May 7th. The Holy Spirit obviously touched both of us at the same time. In case I sounded confused in my e-mail, my revelation of the Seraphim as Menorah does NOT change in any way what you have discerned. All the planets are Cherubs, and they are represented on the Seraphim or Menorah, both tabernacle and heavenly! Less than 30 days left. I pray that you will find the most productive way to use your time for these last days in flesh. Suddenly, I am trying to do everything I can possibly do with Bible Study!! Agape

My reply

Thanks for sharing this with me. It seems that several people are seeing unusual rainbows. It reminds us of God's covenant with the Earth. It also makes us think about the days of Noah. The Rapture is as the days of Noah. (Hmmmm. How old is your Noah?) Rainbows are a wonder, but I'd be afraid a bad hailstorm would break windows and dent cars. Just before Easter, we had hail twice, but small stuff, just enough to surprise us. We are in an arid area and didn't expect hail at all. We did expect rain and the mountains got snow--all unusual that late in the year.

I don't know about the seraphim being Menorah's. Since there are 4 cherubim (planets) and 4 seraphim, if you add Saturn, you have all 9 planets. It makes more sense to me if these flying things represent planets. Agape

Incoming email

Subject: Pro & Con 504
One of the Incoming Emails you replied to on the Pro & Con 504 page referred to people who felt "burned" by the 88 reasons in 1988 Rapture prediction. I was about 21 years old at the time. Of course, as a born-again Crhistian, I was very excited by that boolket. Even so, when it didn't happen, I didn't feel "burned" or let down. Sure, I should like to have gone in 1988. Who wouldn't have? But I was only encouraged by the fantastic "coincidences" at numeric complexities that the Lord has built into the fabric of the universe.

People should not feel discouraged by the errant predictions of humans who are studying God's timetables. They should be all the more awed by the multiplied complexities that are revealed with each "wrong" prediction based on these studies. Every time a prediction fails to come to pass based on Scripture studies, God also reveals the further things that were needed before a predicted event could occur.

Of course, I am very, very, very hopeful and excited at the possibility that the 1st Rapture could occur on or about 10 June 2000. It would be so great. I am very much looking forward with eager anticipation to this Pentecost for the very reason that Jesus is very likely to meet us in the air then. But, I won't be discouraged if the time is not then. I will be all the more intrigued, wondering: "I wonder what the Lord's true timing is?"

Anyway, I pray that God will continue to provide insight into His perfect law of love through you and will bless you each day with the abundance that He has stored up for you in Heaven. Jesus is Lord, Your brother in Christ

My reply

Thanks for sharing this. Agape

Incoming email

The first trump sounded on Pentecost (fullfilled) the last trump sounds on Feast of Trumpets, and the Great Trump sounds on Yom Kipur She says there is no way on earth that the last trump is going to sounded on Pentecost, because you go foward to the next festival after the others have been fullfilled.

My reply

I don't think the LAST TRUMP will be sounded on Pentecost, either. I think the FIRST TRUMP will be sounded on Pentecost and the LAST TRUMP will be sounded on the Feast of Trumpets.

There is a first trump and a last trump to call the saints up to Heaven at the 2 Raptures. NO TRUMP sounded at Pentecost in 30 AD. There was "a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty WIND." There were "cloven tongues like as of fire," (Acts 2:2,3) but no trump.

The FIRST TRUMP sounds at the FIRST RAPTURE. I Thess. 4:16,17 says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

The LAST TRUMP sounds at the LAST RAPTURE. I Cor. 15:51-53 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." Agape

Incoming email

Re: Isaiah 18
Do you think there is any suggestion of either of the raptures in chapter 18 of Isaiah?

Verse 5 ...for afore the harvest, when the bud (blossom) is perfect (gone) and the sour grape (reference to Israel?) is ripening in the flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches....

There is also a reference in verse 3 to the ensign being lifted up (to be taken away/carried off) in the sight of all the nations.

I would like to know how you think these verses fit in to the general picture. God bless you

My reply

I think this passage has to do with the Pre-Trib Rapture in the spring, as in Song of Sol. 2:10-14. I'll quote Isa. 18:5,6 from both the Concordant and LXX versions. They will give us a fuller picture. In verses 3 and 4, it is talking about Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets, the LORD taking his rest (i. e., the first day of the Millennium) and the main harvest (the Pre-Wrath Rapture). Then there is a break in the thought. Verses 5 and 6 go back to the Pre-Trib Rapture in the spring.

Isa. 18:5,6 (Concordant): "For before the (grape) harvest, as the bud is spent, And the unripe grape is weaning, the flower is coming. Then he cuts off the shoots with pruners (at the Pre-Trib Rapture), And the ABANDONED TWIGS (the foolish Laodicean virgins) he takes away when he lops. They will be forsaken together to the bird of prey of the mountains (kingdoms, i.e., to the Beast of Rev. 13:2-10), And to the beast of the earth (the False Prophet of Rev. 13:11-18). And summer on them will the bird of prey."

Isa. 18:5,6 (LXX): "Before the reaping time (the vintage starts in Elul and continues into Tishri), when the flower has been completely formed, and the unripe grape has put forth its flower and blossomed, then shall he take away (at the Pre-Trib Rapture) the little clusters (of fruit) with pruning-hooks, and shall take away the small branches (with no fruit), and CUT THEM OFF; and he shall leave them (the foolish Laodicean virgins with no fruit) together to the birds of the sky, and to the wild beasts of the earth."

This agrees with Lu. 12:46: "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (2300 days of the Tribulation, Dan. 8:14) with the UNBELIEVERS." Mt. 24:51 adds: "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: THERE SHALL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH."

Mt. 22:11-14 says, "And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, THERE SHALL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH. For many are called, but few are chosen."

We need white wedding garments, as he told the Laodiceans. The Bride wears white. Rev. 19:7,8 says, "the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness (lit., righteousnesses) of saints." This includes Christ's righteousness imputed to us plus our righteous acts. The Tribulation saints have to wash their robes in the blood of Christ to make them white (Rev. 7:14). That involves confessing our sins, so he can cleanse us of all unrighteousness (I Jn. 1:9). Agape

Incoming email

Just wanted to drop you a note to say thank you for your work and sharing your knowledge, having access to your pro and cons has been a great blessing... As we near the end of our time on this earth (I am with you on the June 9th/10th dates) it is a great joy to be part of the 'little flock' watching the goings on in the world and in the heavens and awaiting the return of our Lord and Saviour. I can only pray that over the few remaining days as many turn to Christ as possible and I will continue to pray that I will be counted worthy to escape the things to come. Yours in Christ

Incoming email

Re: Rapture
My brother...recently had an apparent revelation from God. (Note: ... has been a language specialist for the past 30 years and he loves the LORD intensely and is very active in Bible study and witnessing to other people).

One night recently Dan was reading from the Psalms and the entire book of Micah before bedtime. Then he went to bed and immediately 2 sentences went through his mind repeatedly:

"God will pour out His Spirit on Pentecost this year", and "The resurrection and ascension will take place this year 10 days before Pentecost".

He thinks that this is a revelation from God. He does NOT claim to be a prophet and he is not trying to set dates.

Pentecost is usually associated with "spiritual revival". Who would need "spiritual revival"? Probably the Laodicean church members. The Philadelphia church members already are "full of the Spirit".

Question: "Why would GOD "pour out His Spirit" (as on Pentecost), if He is going to "take out" (rapture) the faithful church"?

If God should "rapture" the faithful church this year 10 days before Pentecost, then probably the Laodicean church members would be so alarmed and distraught about missing the rapture that they would go into 10 days of praying and crying out to the LORD. The LORD would honor their crying and seeking by "pouring out the Spirit on Pentecost". These Laodicean members would now be "filled with the Spirit", but they would still have to endure the suffering, the judgments and death of the tribulation period; many of them would have to give their life for their testimony.

Marilyn, we would appreciate your discernment and response on this apparent revelation. GOD's blessings to YOU!!

My reply

I'd be tickled if the Rapture happened on Ascension Day. The precedent is there, because we are the Body of Christ and the Head ascended on that day. However, in birth, the body is not born at the same time as the head. In normal birth, the head is first. The torso follows, with the legs and feet last. We know that Christ is the head. It seems that the dead in Christ would be the torso. Since there are two feet and two Raptures, it seems fitting that one foot would be born a bit before the other one.

The Spirit of Christ descended on Pentecost in 30 AD. Wouldn't it seem likely that Christ would descend on that same day, not the day he went away?

Isa. 18:5,6 in the Septuagint (LXX) says, "Before the reaping time (the vintage starts in Elul and continues into Tishri), when the flower has been completely formed, and the UNRIPE GRAPE has put forth its flower and blossomed, THEN shall he TAKE AWAY (i.e., Rapture) the little clusters (of GRAPES) with pruning-hooks, and shall take away the small branches (with no fruit), and CUT THEM OFF; and he shall LEAVE THEM (the foolish Laodicean virgins with no fruit) together to the birds of the sky (i.e., demons), and to the wild beasts of the earth" (i.e., to the Beast and False Prophet).

This seems to be the time of the firstripe grapes. Nu. 13:16-21 (KJV) says, " Moses called Oshea the son of Nun Jehoshua (Joshua was a type of Jesus). And Moses sent them to SPY OUT THE LAND of Canaan (THE PROMISED LAND), and said unto them, GET YOU UP this way southward, and GO UP INTO THE MOUNTAIN: And see the land...And be ye of good courage, and bring of the fruit of the land. Now THE TIME WAS THE TIME OF THE FIRSTRIPE GRAPES. So they WENT UP, and searched the land."

Song of Sol. 2:13 says, "the vines with the TENDER GRAPE give a good smell. ARISE, my love, my fair one, and COME AWAY."

The grapes come on at the end of May and the beginning of June. Both Ascension Day and Pentecost fit within that time and mark important times. I think the 10 days of Rev. 2:10 are the days when the Rapture is "at hand" (Rev. 1:3; 22:10) and that they start on Ascension Day. That seems to be the final COUNTDOWN for take off. I still think the Rapture at the end of that 10-day period is most likely--on Pentecost.

We are wheat, and Pentecost is the wheat harvest. On Pentecost, "the firstfruits unto the LORD" are brought into the house of God (Lev. 23:17). The foolish Laodicean virgins are left behind at the first Rapture. Lev. 23:22 says, "And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt NOT MAKE CLEAN RIDDANCE of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest." There was no division like this on Ascension Day, but there was on Pentecost. Agape

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Updated 5-14-00