Pro and Con 51, Uploaded 1-18-98
Why do you believe Jesus will return at Firstfruits rather than Tabernacles. In a paragraph if you can. I have studied all of the various possiblities but always looking for new revelation.
I was interested in what one of your friends had to say about all these Baptists being here. Since I am an independant Baptist preacher, I clicked, only to find myself at the kiwi home page. This was done several times, and then I manually keyed in the address bapt.html. Still unable to see what happens to us Baptists.(:-). I would have to disagree (who doesn't on some things) with your and everyone else's insistence that the seven years are all future. In Mark 1:14 Jesus stated that the "Time is fullfilled". That could only be referring to Daniels prophesy of the seventy weeks. Scripture states clearly that the "break" in time occurs in the middle of the seveniteth week, not at the beginning. I cannot find any evidence in the scripture pointing to a break in time at the END of the 69th week. Am enjoying my journey through your pages.
My reply The spring feasts of Nisan belong to the time of the Crucifixion. The fall feasts of Tishri belong to the beginning of the Millennium. Pentecost belongs to the church. We are wheat and Pentecost is the wheat harvest. "Lev. 23:17 says, Ye shall bring out of your habitations TWO wave-loaves...they are the firstfruits unto the LORD." Ex. 23:19 says, The first (the Bride of Christ) of the firstfruits (the remainder of the Body of Christ) of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God." Neh. 10:35 says, "bring the firstfruits of our ground, and the firstfruits of all fruit of all trees...unto the house of the LORD: Also the firstborn of our SONS." James 1:18 says, we are "a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." At Pentecost, the Spirit of Christ came upon the church, which was born into this world at that time. It was a Type. It makes sense that at Pentecost, Christ, the Bridegroom, would come upon the church and the Bride would be born into a new world. That is the Antitype.
...My web page is full. To get new things on, I have to take something off. I forgot to remove it from the Index. Attached is the file you wanted....BTW, I am Baptist also.
Mark 1:14,15 says, "after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel."
Daniel 9:26 says, "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (killed)." The passage in Mark came before the Crucifixion. Therefore, it had nothing to do with the timing of the Tribulation. The time that was fulfilled was the 7 weeks and the 62 weeks of years (i.e., 69 total) that were to elapse (from the commandment to restore and the build Jerusalem) before Jesus' ministry in 30 AD.
> Scripture states clearly that the "break" in time occurs in the middle of the
> seveniteth week, not at the beginning. I cannot find any evidence in
> the scripture pointing to a break in time at the END of the 69th week.
The break is between the Messiah being killed in verse 26 and the beginning of verse 27, which says, "And he (the prince that shall come) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week." This is the very beginning of the seven-year Tribulation week. This cannot be the middle of the Tribulation for Scripture continues saying, "and in the midst of the week."
Incoming Email His reply Well I guess we won't agree. Sir Robert Anderson screwed up the whole ball of wax in Daniel nine. There is no covenant being made with any antichrist. a Coventant is being "confirmed", and it is the same covenant Daniel referred to in the beginning of the chapter. The covenant the God made with Abraham concening the land (that he had been praying about for umpteen years). The covenant conrfirmer is Christ himself (Rom. 15;8) and he does it by feeding the multiutdes, healing, raising the dead etc. Signs are ONLY for Israel. The so called Charismatic revival is nothing more than a .... If you have the time, my booklet on the blessed hope will surely challenge your thinking along these lines. At any rate we should know by May 31.
My reply Sir Robert Anderson figured the number of days and divided by 360 too. I'm not sure that is right, either. There is no Jewish year with 360 days in it. There are 353, 354, 355, 383, 384, or 385-day years. The days mentioned in Dan. 12 and Rev. 11 and 12 turn out to fit exactly in the right time slot during the Tribulation and serve to lock the time line into its correct place in the calendar. You can't move it even one year in either direction. The count of the days would be off, and it has to end in a leap year for there to be 7 months to bury the bodies (Ezek. 39:12) between Tishri 1 (the catastrophe) and Nisan 1 (Ezek. 29:17,21), the return of Christ as the latter rain, Regnal Year (he is King of kings) and the Sacred Year (he is Lord of lords) begin.
BTW, If you begin counting with BC 454, as Martin Anstey figured out, the 483rd ordinary year comes out 29 AD. The Messiah was to be killed after that. There is no need for the figuring of days and dividing by 360.
> it is the same covenant Daniel referred to in the beginning of the chapter.
In Dan. 9:25, it is the "commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem." This is not the same as verse 27's "confirm the covenant with many" that continues until "the consummation" (verse 27). This is the consummation of Satan's dominion, the 2520th day of the seven-year Tribulation. The former commandment came before the Messiah was killed. The latter confirmation of the covenant is still to come. It may well turn out that the Oslo Accords will be amended and confirmed. At any rate it is a seven-year peace treaty that is to be confirmed. Can't you see that it is coming soon? Even the Pope and Israel are talking peace.
Armageddon is coming as "with a flood" (verse 26). I couldn't figure out how long Armageddon lasted and told the Lord, "You'll have to show me." He did. It rained 40 days and 40 nights here in Southern California. I have the tab section of the Santa Ana Register, "The Savage Storm," with the beginning and ending dates. The "war" of verse 26 is Armageddon. It lasts "even until the consummation" when "that determined shall be poured upon the desolate (desolator)" (verse 27).
Did verse 24 ever get fulfilled in the past, or it it still to come at the end of the 490 years? It mentions bringing in "everlasting righteousness." Has that happened yet?
Who destroyed Jerusalem? "the people (Romans) of the prince that shall come" (verse 26). When did this prince come? I think he will be the Tribulation Pope.
He "shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease." This ties in with Dan. 8:13,14. It says, "How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." These 2300 days fit exactly, counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning, from the Feast of Weeks in 5761 to the Feast of Trumpets in 5768. This is the shortened Tribulation. I think the covenant will be confirmed on the Feast of Weeks that kicks off the Seventieth Week of Daniel. It will be signed by the two beasts of Rev. 13, one from Rome (the Beast), the other (the False Prophet) from Israel.
Marilyn, you may be familiar with the "corrected" Hebrew calendar, calculated by the Stewarton Bible School in Scotland. It supposedly corrects for equinox errors made that result in the modern Jewish calendar being slightly off, sometimes several days. It shows Pentecost this year to be June 1. Your thoughts?
My reply As I remember it, there are the Talmudic Jewish Calendar that I use, the Hebrew Calendar and the Stewarton Bible School Calendar (I have their feast date chart). Stewarton is the only one that deviates from May 31. If Pentecost is June 1, that's ok by me too. We don't have long to wait to find out.
Dr. Tabor did tell me that some figure the calendar only by sighting the new moon crescent each month. It had no other rules such as govern the Talmudic Calendar, that certain feasts can't fall on certain days, for instance. He was going to check when they thought Pentecost was in 5758, but he has not emailed me since.
Incoming Email I just got on this site and haven't certainly been able to read it all yet, but what I have seen I like!! I feel the time is definetly drawing very close for the coming of our Lord, Jesus Christ!! However only God the Father knows when that moment will be, not even Jesus knows untill God the Father tells Him, according to the bible.
Will certainly be reading more and more of this on your web site !!
My reply Jesus Christ is the Almighty himself (Rev. 1:8). He knows. He planned it before this "kosmos" began. He said that no man "knoweth." That is present tense. No man (Jesus was not just a man, so he was excluded from this) knew on that one particular day. Knowledge was to be increased in the time of the end (Dan. 12:4).
Incoming Email I am half way through your book The End of The Age, You have a great gift and insight, praise God. Look at some verses for me and comment please. Rev 2:5 Remove thy candlestick (could this be a rapture) of Ephesus Overcomers?
All so look at
Church (of) Ephesus
Church (in) Smyrna
Church (in) Pergamos
Church (in) Thyatira
Church (in) Sardis
Church (in) Philadelphia
Church (of) Laodicea
Five of the churches are listed as (in) could the overcomers of these five churches be the wise virgins?
Look at Ezekiel 38:5-6 Syria is not mentioned also the number of nations is limited in this war,(not all nations) this is not ARMAGEDDON but the battle of the kings of the north. This war will be at the begining of tribulation. The war of Ezek. 38 &39 Most likely be started by Israel hitting Damascus (Isaiah 17:1-5) in the time of Harvest (possible date fall 98 or 99). JACOB'S TROUBLES (possible 20 years long) 7+7+6 Gen. 27:26 thru 29:29 . Possible date for ARMAGEDDON 2018? Awaiting your reply
> Rev 2:5 Remove thy candlestick (could this be a rapture) of Ephesus Overcomers?
I don't think so. Revelation is written as if the Rapture is "at hand" (Rev. 1:3; 22:10). In the Preview of the Rapture in chapter one, the candlesticks are all around Christ in Heaven. If one is to be removed, it would be left on Earth at the Rapture.
> Five of the churches are listed as (in) could the overcomers of these five churches be the wise virgins?
Seems more likely that there will be wise overcomers from all seven groups.
> this war,(not all nations) this is not ARMAGEDDON
It may be the united nations because of verse 6's "and many people with thee." It is not Armageddon, which has to take place after Christ is on Earth. This attack takes place on the 2300th day of the Tribulation (Dan. 8:14). It is what brings on the outpouring of God's wrath, when he says, "my fury shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken" (Ezek. 38:18,19a).
That day, the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord, the asteroid will strike Earth. It will split. One piece as big as a mountain will strike the Mediterranean Sea. Ezek. 38: 19b,20 says, "there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel: So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field...and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (transl. "sight" in Ezek. 36:31), and the mountains shall be thrown down."
This is the day they see the Sign of the Son of Man. And "Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast" (Zeph. 2:4,5).
> JACOB'S TROUBLES (possible 20 years long)
It is one day, the day the army under Gog attacks Israel.
> Possible date for ARMAGEDDON 2018?
I think Armageddon is to follow the Judgment of the Nations Nisan 16, our April 21, 2008. It runs for 40 days, ending with the chaining of Satan on Iyar 25, which is the anniversary of Christ's ascension in 30 AD on the Jewish Calendar. It looks like Christ went up and Satan will go down on the same Jewish date. In 2008, Iyar 25 is our May 30, a Friday. Millennial peace begins on the Sabbath, May 31, the anniversay of the Rapture on our calendar.
Incoming Email Congratulations again! I just started reading your new book.
Couple of questions and ideas for you.
Q1. With two Raptures, and the "stage" in which "Revelations" occurs, have you ever found a verse or verses at the end of the book which would appear to be the 2nd Rapture. To me, I think there might be some additional confirmation there.
A coralary question is: What is the last chronological event described in "Revelations"?
Q2. How long is a jewish month? Are they all equal in size, and have they always been that way? Do you know of any verses which state how long a month is? It's not the same length as the 28 day rotation of the moon is it?
My reply No verse at the end of Revelation speaks of Rapture II. That is seen in Rev. 7:14. In 22:10 the first Rapture is still "at hand" just as it was in 1:3, and in 22:20, Jesus says, "Surely I come quickly." He comes quickly at the first Rapture.
The last chronological event of Revelation is probably when "death and hell were cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:14) after the Great White Throne Judgment.
A Jewish month has either 29 or 30 days. They are not all equal in size. Only 3 months vary, Cheshvan, Kislev, and Adar. As far as I know, they have always been that way. God is consistant. Can't think of a verse that states how long a month is. The rotation of the moon takes 29.5 days. When the date of the Feast of Firstfruits falls behind the season when there would be grain ready to harvest for the offering, a leap month, Adar II, is added. In the 19-year cycle, the 7 leap years are added in the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 19th years. The number of possible days in a year are 353 in a Deficient Year, 354 in a Normal Year, 355 in a Full Year, 383 in a Deficient Leap Year, 384 in a Normal Leap Year, and 385 in a Full Leap Year.
There is no Jewish year that has 360 days. Yet, the exact count of days, by Jewish inclusive reckoning, from the Feast of Weeks in 2001 to the end of the seven-year Tribulation is 1260 days (Rev. 11:3) + 1260 days (Rev. 12:6).
The 2300 days of Dan. 8:14 (the shortened Tribulation) run from the Feast of Weeks in 2001 to the Feast of Trumpets in 2007. This count is not true in just any set of years and serves to drop the Tribulation into its correct time slot.
Incoming Email I wanted to thank you for your kind response. It made my day when I came into work this morning. I do have one more question for you that came into my mind when I was on your web page last night. During the Millenial reign of Jesus, will we be in Heaven or on Earth (or both)?? Have you encountered any clues as to what life will be like in God's kingdom, or are these questions best left unasked?
My reply We are promised that Heaven is our home. I think we will come here, help in the setting up of the millennial government, and then go home. It seems possible that we will commute to work, i.e., go and come as necessary.
I read all my versions of the Bible all the way through and made notes on what Heaven is like, but I still can't tell you exactly what it will be like. We have to trust the Lord. He tells us that eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, the things that he has prepared for those that love him. Heaven is a better place. Nothing is allowed to defile it. No thieves break through and steal. No moths. No rust. No tears. No pain. No sickness. No lions. Peace, justice, perfection and beauty are there. There is water (a river is mentioned), and trees (Rev. 22:1,2). I'm looking forward to it. All the descriptions are great. Since the Lord created the Earth and all that is on it, I have an idea of how his taste runs. I expect Heaven will remind us of Earth, yet be better in every way.
Abraham, after seeing it, chose Heaven, a better place, when he could have come back to Earth if he so desired. That tells us a lot, right there. Read Hebrews 11. It mentions Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Sara, then says, "And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city" (Heb. 11:15,16). Verse 35 mentions "a better resurrection." Everything is "better."
Incoming Email I think "retribution"/"return of christ"/"end of world theories" etc around the millenium are B.S. What proof do you have? people have prophesised the end of the world before, and i am still here and very much alive.
I will seriously become exremely religious if something happens on or around the millenium change, but as of now I remain unconvinced.
A Doubtful Flamer
P.S., this is not directed only at you, but at anyone on your bandwagon
P.P.S Do not take serious offence from this, treat it as a serious comment from an unBeliever.
P.P.P.S. The world will still be around when It it 2002, so don't go sinning or anything
My reply Go ahead and fulfil Scripture, they didn't believe Noah either.
2 Peter 3:3-7,10 says, "there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water; Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men....But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."
Look for this to come true when the asteroid hits Earth September 13, 2007, on the Feast of Trumpets that begins the millennial Day of the Lord.
If the Rapture takes place on next Pentecost, take warning. If the seven-year Peace Covenant is confirmed on the Feast of Weeks (Pentecost) in 2001, you will know that the asteroid will strike 2300 days later (counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning).
Incoming Email I have heard that you can tell what day of the week it is by the transits. How do we know that Saturday is really Saturday? Is their any real way of telling?
Dr. J.B. Dimbleby, a chronologist to the British Chronological and Astronomical Association says that "if men refused to observe weeks, and the line of time was forgotten the day of the week could be recovered by observing when the transits of the planets, or eclipses of the sun and moon occurred." I don't understand his point. Could you explain?
My reply A transit is the apparent passage of a heavenly body across a given meridian. I don't know how this relates to the days of the week, but this man sounds as if he has the training to be able to figure it out.
I am not worried about it. I think God has so arranged our calendars that they come out right here at the end of this age. Notice how the Jewish 5758 aligns with our 1997/l998. Doesn't that final 8 seem controlled?
When I figured out when Christ was going to return, it came out Nisan 1 on the Jewish Calendar (according to Ezek. 29:17,21) in 5768 (our 2008). That is April 6, and Christ, called the son of David, was crucified on April 6, 30 AD.
As if that isn't enough to make you blink and take a second look, when I figured that out and then realized that my son, David, was born on April 6, I was astonished. I had even tried to make him be born on my husband's birthday the week before, dug post holes and built a fence around our yard. It did not work. He had to be born on April 6. Is that a confirmation that I did my arithmetic correctly? It is sure something that I could not control.
Even the name, David, happened in a strange way. The name we had picked, Brian, did not seem to suit this almost 10 lb. baby. To me, Brian fit a helpless babe. This "football player," as the nurses called him, could hold up his head like a turtle and flip himself over on his back. David flitted across my mind. I asked my husband, "How about David?" and David it was, a complete surprise since we had not so much as mentioned that as a possible name.
Don't forget that God is in COMPLETE control of things.
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