Pro and Con 510

Posted 5-17-00

My outgoing email

Re: your URL you sent me
> > The actual Second Coming of Christ, the Resurrection of the Saints, the Rapture, and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, all happen at the end of the Tribulation

I am glad you are telling people to be ready, but it may be more imperative right now than you know. I think you have some things right, but not all. There are two Raptures, Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath. The first group are seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9. It says, "And they (the saints) sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" Those and the 24 elders are in Heaven BEFORE the first seal is opened on "the book" in Rev. 6.

The second group is seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:9,14, AFTER the 6th seal is broken in Rev. 6:12, but BEFORE the 7th seal is broken that releases the 7 trumpet judgments in Rev. 8. Rev. 7:9,14 says, " After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands...These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God."

I think the 2300th day (Dan. 8:14) of the Tribulation is the most eventful day ever. It is Christ's Coronation Day, the day of the Marriage of the Lamb, the Judgment Seat of Christ and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, and that is just in Heaven. It is the Feast of Trumpets that is the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. It is the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture. It is the Day of God's Wrath, the Day of Thick Darkness, the time of Jacob's trouble, but it is NOT the day of the Second Advent. That day is still 7 Jewish months future (Eze. 39:12). Jesus will return on the following Nisan 1 (Hos. 6:3; Eze. 29:17,21), the first day of the Jewish Regnal Year and Sacred Year. Therefore, that year is a Jewish Leap Year, as 5768 is (our 2007/2008).

Zech. 14:5-7 indicates that the day of the Second Advent will not be a day of thick darkness. It says, "the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light."

> > An asteroid or comet collision, the impact occurring in one of the oceans! The description of "something like a great mountain burning with fire" in Revelation 8:8 is the most accurate and vivid description of the event that a person ignorant of the subject could give...The most probable site of impact would be somewhere in the northern Pacific Ocean."

You have the right idea about an asteroid hitting the sea, but it isn't the Pacific. It is the Mediterranean. Zeph. 2:3-5 says, " Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD's anger. For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast." Agape

Incoming email

Subject: Isaiah 57:1 and Psalms 40:2-3
I would like to know your thoughts about two scriptures Is. 57:1 and Psalms 40:2,3.

Isaiah 57:1 says, "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come." The fact that it says that the righteous are taken away (perisheth is "abad" meaning to wander away or take) from the evil (the wrath of Satan) during the tribulation, leads me to believe that this verse is describing the pre-tribulation rapture of the Bride. Notice it says that when this occurs that "no man will lay it to heart". That sounds like those missing will be hardly missed because of some massive deception by the anti-christ that is revealed.

Psalms 40:2-3 says, "He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings. And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD." This verse that you have discussed many times aptly describes the pre-trib rapture that takes us out of the horrible pit, this world and out of our bodies, the miry clay, to the rock, heaven, singing a new song once we get there. This passage seems to indicate that the rapture will have an impact many seeing it and fearing and trusting in the Lord. I know that you have said that the "seeing it" leads you to believe that all will see us as we go up. That seems to go against the Isaiah 57 scripture. I tend to believe that they will "see it", see that the rapture has taken place and they are left. In any case, the two verses seem to show two different aftermaths after the pre-trib rapture. The only way I can reconcile them is that the Isaiah 57 verse tells of the impact "to the world" and the Psalms 40 verses describes the impact to the many Laodician, foolish virgins that will be left. What do you think? Your brother in Jesus

My reply

I pretty much agree with you, except I think "many" really will see the Rapture take place.

In Psa. 40:3, "raah" is a primitive root, "to see." It can be used figuratively, but here, many who see do fear and trust the LORD. It has a result to match the action. I'm inclined to take it literally. However, MANY does not mean ALL, and I think the MANY could easily be the foolish virgins. They would UNDERSTAND, for they did arise when the cry came that "the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him" in Mt. 25:6. They just were not ready.

I think the passage in Isaiah is referring to people that do NOT UNDERSTAND what has happened and leaders that cannot understand, that are not even expecting the Tribulation, much less the Rapture. Isa. 56:11,12; 57:1-4 says. " they are shepherds that CANNOT UNDERSTAND: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and TOMORROW SHALL BE AS THIS DAY, AND MUCH MORE ABUNDANT (these are not expecting the Tribulation). The righteous perisheth (abad, ESCAPES), and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is TAKEN AWAY FROM THE EVIL TO COME. He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness. But draw NEAR hither, YE SONS OF THE SORCERESS, the seed of the adulterer and the whore. Against whom do ye sport yourselves? against whom make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue? are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood." Agape

Incoming email

Re: Turtledoves
Just wanted to share how the Holy Spirit continually reminds me of His presence. At least once a day for over a month, a turtledove has been standing at the end of my driveway as I'm leaving my home. it doesn't matter what time of the day it is, and almost every time, I have to stop my car until it gets out of the way for me to pass by!

More than anything, it's simply a gentle physical reminder to me of the abiding presence of the peace of the Holy Spirit in my midst as I go about my day. It's a small thing, but I am no less thankful than anything else God gives me in this life.

I'll think you'll agree that this is such a great time of the year between Easter and Pentecost to reflect and truly meditate on the omnipotent and love of God for His people. To imagine a most high God cheering His own to daily victory is too much for the mind to comprehend.

On your site, you have stressed how important it is to be righteous and holy before God to be a part of His Bride, and that is so true. However, I have to personally remind myself from time to time that I daily choose to be holy, pure, and righteous because God deserves our best...not ultimately to escape His wrath in the tribulation; that is only a side benefit. He would deserve our devotion even if He never provided a way out of the worst period of Earth's history. We remain righteous and holy because He is.

Thanks for your encouragement through the wealth of work on your site.

My reply

Thanks for sharing your dove experience with me. This is the first year I was able to see a dove, a plain gray one, on her nest. She built a shallow one on top of a pillar on the porch of a house 2 doors from us, right out in the open. She stayed right on her eggs as we got within about 4 feet of her. She watched us and we watched her, as if she was very tame and unafraid of us. I could have reached her nest with my hand, it was that low. She seemed to trust us. I hear them cooing lots around here. When we first moved here, one was on the roof ridge overlooking the patio. I heard it and kept walking back and forth trying to find it. I finally did, and with all my walking, it stayed put. It seemed to be welcoming me to this place. Later on, I saw one ring-necked one in the street beside the car. It didn't move as we drove by. They seem friendly, don't scare easily and are not aggressive. Reminds me of Mt. 10:16: "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."

My Bible is open to Isa. 57. I just happened to look at it and saw my red arrow going from v. 1 (speaking of the Rapture) to v. 15. It appropriately says, "For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones." Sounds like us doves.

A dove is a good symbol of the Holy Spirit too. You are right, the Lord deserves our best, no matter what. Still, we are obeying when we pray Lu. 21:36. It says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." We want to just be in his presence more than anything. We love him, and he loves us. Agape

Incoming email

Re: My Noah
> > When I get P & C 508 loaded, let me know what you think about Jesus' assessment of the churches being from the vantage point of the Ascension Day just 10 days before the Rapture. This could be why it is a certain thing that the tribulation in 2:10 will only last 10 more days.

I have several topics to discuss, I will present them one at a time.

First, I would like to share briefly with you a dream I had on Sunday May 14th at about 6AM. In this dream I was present with around ten or so "beings" which appeared anthropomorphic (2 arms 2 legs and so on), but with really dilated eyes (light hurt them), and they were 30 to 50 % taller than me. No words were said by any of them, but several in turn came right up to my face about an inch away from my nose and appeared threatening. I had no fear of any sort, and kept telling them that I rebuke them in the name of the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It seemed as if a "hedge" (as in Job) was placed around me by the Trinity of God. They gave up and left. The messages I got from all of this is I am protected by the Trinity of God, and these beings DO NOT WANT ME TO TEACH THE BIBLE OR SHARE ANY SIGNS I HAVE SEEN (the many I have told you about) with ANYBODY. So of course I will look for even MORE chances to share the Gospel, and tell EVERY sign I see, in order that I might be used as a faithful and humble servant to glorify the Father! Because it was a long day (May 13) of studying the Bible and watching for the Lord, if May 14 (in Jerusalem) was the Pentecost, it is curious indeed this would happen when it did. Now I agree with you we should not run around proclaiming dreams and so on, but I share this with you because it is extremely curious.

Second, I agree with you on the vantage point of Jesus Christ beginning on Ascension Day to assess the state of the churches. What I would like to suggest however, is that Rev 2:10 is for those in the Church of Smyrna. I suggest that this is applicable to persecuted Christian Brothers in Sudan, Russia, China, and all countries where Muslim followers persecute and murder Christians to this day. It is this exact reason that I donate money to radio broadcasts that give out the Word of God in those lands. But I do not consider myself to be in that Church. Here in North America, a Christian is not in anywhere near the danger that those mentioned above are. However, I might add, since we enjoy such a free access to the Gospel, and free speech, the Lord expects more from us here! I consider myself to be in the Church of Philadelphia. I do not want to speak for you, but suggest that you appear to be in that Church also. Therefore Rev 2:10 does not apply to you and I, but rather Rev 3:7-12. Here is what I consider being in the Church of Philadelphia means. We have a "little power", that is we are a humble group of believers that do not have impressive numbers, buildings, or programs. (That fits me!!). We are in a revived Church, or a Bible believing Church. Revival is not people being saved, it is believers who are already saved giving out the Word of God (not just an hour of "commentary and anecdotes" from one tiny verse taken from the Bible as we see today on many religious programs). We do not have to debate whether the Bible is true, IT IS TRUE. We don't waste our time analyzing it, BECAUSE EVERY JOT AND TITTLE AND WORD OF THE BIBLE IS 100% FROM GOD, PERIOD! We are not liberal, not cold, not condemning, not promoting a bunch of fictional books and movies about the woe of those in the Tribulation, and we do not deny the Lord Jesus. The proof that we are in the Church of Philadelphia is that we have the "key of David", that is the Holy Spirit reveals what is in the scriptures. They are nonsense and babble to those that are not spirit filled. I can discern when someone is not spirit filled quite soon after I begin to talk to them. I think you are able to quite promptly too!

Thirdly, it is obvious that you are receiving questions about how we can reveal that the Word of God clearly states that there are believers that are carnal and will have to wait for the pre-wrath rapture. First up, I do not consider myself a pious "super saint" by discussing the need for the non-spirit filled believers to fill their lamps with more oil. There is infinite room for all believers to leave in the pre-trib rapture, it just won't happen. I did not say it, the Word of God does. The best place to study this is in First Thessalonians. It is written to believers, both spirit filled and carnal. It is the revelation of the pre-trib rapture (1Thess 4:13-18), and it was written by our Brother Paul. I would like say that Paul was likely the most intelligent spirit filled brother that ever walked in a "tent of flesh" here on cherubim Earth! I do not want to write out the first four chapters of 1Thessalonians, but you all should study them if you have not. I want to pull out some exceptionally relevant passages, however they are all relevant.

1Thess 1:3 - ". . . (*)work of faith, (**) labour of love, (***) and patience of hope . . ." Here we have 3 Christian graces, faith, love and hope. (See also 1Cor 13:13).

(*) Work of faith is a strange expression (See also Eph 2:8-9) (See also James 2:18) James and Paul are writing about the same thing. Faith is the response of the person to the Word of God. When a person responds to the word of God, then he walks by faith. (See 2 Cor 5:7). The Lord Jesus also said the same thing in John 6:28-29. He did not say that you can come to God by your works, but that you must come to God by faith. Then a faith that is living will make itself known by revealing itself in the life that it is lived. Look at Luke 5:4-5. Peter came right out and said he had fished all night and did not catch anything. He stated fact, he did not say this in a mocking tone, or a rebuttal to Jesus. Peter was an experienced fisherman, and he knew what he was doing. But notice what he said, he did not put up a big argument about why he should not go out and cast the net again, he said to the Lord that he would go right back out and fish again. Oh how we all need to understand this lesson today! Peter displayed a work of faith. Look at Cain and Abel. In Heb 11:4 we are told that by faith, Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice to God. Abel did what he was told to do by God, because he had faith. Abraham was another, when he offered Isaac. There are many more. The point here is that I have observed that non-spirit filled believers do not show that response to the Word of God and walking by faith. I had a particularly unpleasant experience with a carnal Christian in 1999, and I prayed to God to show me how to deal with it, and I opened my Bible in one motion to Habakkuk 2:4. I will let you look it up! The scripture should not surprise you!

(**) Labour of love is another abstract noun. God does not save by love, He saves by grace, which is love in action. The Lord Jesus really put this into tangible form in John 14:15. If you do not love the Lord, you will find it nothing but tedium and bother to try to keep his commandments. Guess what, carnal Christians feel exactly this way, I know several of them! By the way, the 22 commandments for believers are in 1Thess 5. I have them posted on this web site a few weeks back. Whatever we do for the Lord Jesus Christ must be a labor of love. This characterizes the spirit filled believer. How can a believer expect to be the Bride of the Lord Jesus Christ if they don't love Him? Would you go through a marriage ceremony with someone you did not love? I wouldn't and the Word of God says the Lord does not either.

(***) Patience of hope is knowing our future is assured in the blessed hope of Jesus Christ. Winston Churchill himself, who was instrumental in the creation of the UN stated that the UN had no hope of peace. He was right. There are those today that think man and his puny brain are going to resolve all the problems of this world and bring peace and prosperity. Ever since Adam was escorted out of Paradise because he was a sinner, pathetic little man has been trying to build another one. I submit the present world as the latest testimony of the sucess! Once again, I know carnal Christians who inject some effort by man into the destiny of this dispensation. Some of them even spout the blasphemy of how they are going to bring the Kingdom here themselves. The last group we had like this were the Y2K survival bunch, you know the ones who were going to live out in the mountains eating creamed corn for the next seven years, so the others could all die off, and they could lead a bunch of followers into the Kingdom for Jesus. The ruling sceptre of the universe in in the nail pierced hands of the Lord Jesus Christ. All of my hope rests in Him, and nothing else!

1Thess 4:2 - Here is the instruction to try to keep the 22 commandments for believers again. When the Bible says it more than once, it is not just a suggestion!

1Thess 4:3- What is this sanctification? I know carnal Christians who don't care what it is. Spirit filled believers know. Sanctification is a work of the Holy Spirit. There are three aspects. (1) Positional Sanctification - No person is ever more saved than the moment that they put their trust in Christ. The carnal Christians seem to stop here.

(2) Practical Sanctification- The Holy Spirit works in us to produce the Fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5) Carnal Christians do not bear fruit because they do not have enough oil of the Holy Spirit. Look in Revelation 2 and 3 to see who is appointed their portion with the unbelievers. If you do not read the Bible and pray (part of the 22 commandments) there is no Fruit of the Spirit. I see this in carnal Christians 100% of the time.

(3) Total Sanctification - This is not until we are conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. No one is righteous, no not one. (This is what the Bible says, not what I say). I am looking for the blessed hope of the pre-tribulation Rapture, so that I may have what I can never have in my "tent" or "tabernacle" of flesh. Agape

My reply

I appreciate your taking time to write all this out. I was thinking of doves as I answered the last email, but we are sort of like butterflies too. We are just about to hatch and spread our wings (no more literal than the wings of the cherubim, but we will fly). What a glorious day that will be.

Concerning the messages to the 7 church groups in Rev. 2 and 3, I used to think that there were young churches, as in Ephesus, but that most of that group are asleep in Jesus, and that the living here at the end of the age sort of get poured into Philadelphian or Laodicean groups. That seems true as far as it goes. However, if these 7 messages are a view of how the churches look to Jesus on the anniversary of His Ascension Day 10 days before the Rapture, these messages are all fresh and addressed to the living today. No wonder he tells Ephesus, "REPENT, and do the first works; OR ELSE I will come unto thee QUICKLY, and will remove thy candlestick out of HIS PLACE, except thou REPENT."

This warning is for us today. How many times have I received email from someone that thinks they have it made simply because they believe in Jesus. That is true as far as Salvation is concerned, but it doesn't necessarily determine if they will win the "PRIZE" of going in the first Rapture, or if they will be a "CASTAWAY" at that time and be caught up on the last day. We should be running the race to win. The winner gets the prize.

Jesus says to the church in Pergamos, "REPENT; OR ELSE I WILL COME UNTO THEE QUICKLY." In Rev. 3:3-5, he says to those in Sardis, "HOLD FAST, and REPENT. If therefore thou shalt not WATCH, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. HE THAT OVERCOMETH, THE SAME SHALL BE CLOTHED IN WHITE RAIMENT; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life"

Contrast this with those in Laodicea being told in Rev. 3:16-19, "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I WILL SPUE THEE OUT OF MY MOUTH. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and WHITE RAIMENT, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and REPENT."

These messages show us how to get white raiment--repent. We can do it now, or we can do it later, after being rebuked and chastened as mentioned in 3:19. Why not do the inevitable now and have on the white wedding garment. If we don't, the parable in Mt. 22 shows that we will be cast out of the door. Verses 11-14 say, " And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For MANY ARE CALLED, BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN." We want to be chosen.

To the chosen, who have no condemnation mentioned against them, in 3:9-11, Jesus says, " I have loved thee. Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee FROM the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come QUICKLY: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. That is his promise to those he loves and chooses. When the Rapture takes place, "they that are WITH HIM are CALLED, and CHOSEN, and FAITHFUL" (Rev. 17:14).

After we are caught up to Heaven, and the Tribulation is beginning, Rev. 13:6,7 says of the Beast "he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and THEM THAT DWELL IN HEAVEN. And it was given unto him to make WAR WITH THE SAINTS (the foolish Laodicean virgins), and to OVERCOME THEM: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. That lasts the first half of the Tribulation, then the Satan-possessed False Prophet comes to power. Messianic Jews have to flee Jerusalem. "And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman" (Israel). It is in our best interest to be among the called, chosen and faithful in Heaven during the Tribulation. Agape

Incoming email

Thank you so very much for your website. i read it daily as it encourages me to overcome what I must(with the Lord's help) and pray that I and my family are found worthy. Having been raised Catholic...then on to buddism, hinduism, theosophy and such; I found the truth in Jesus Christ--because nothing else makes any sense at all. Marilyn, even if He delays His coming past June, I think your efforts will help keep us focused. "Even so, come Lord Jesus!!' Thank You

My reply

Thanks for encouraging me, also for reminding us that "nothing else makes any sense at all." It is nice to hear from someone who looked into all these. Christ is the only way. "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

God "Hath in these last days (i.e., 5th and 6th millenniums, out of 7 total) spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds" (Heb. 1:2). "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made" (Jn. 1:3). That the creator himself would take the punishment due us so we wouldn't have to is almost beyond comprehension. What a sacrifice. Without him, we would be sunk, without a hope in the world. Maranatha. Agape

Incoming email

Subject: rapture as a surprise
Do you think there will be those who don't know about the rapture, but having lead good lives will suddenly find themselves raptured?

My reply

You bet, assuming that you are talking about believers. There isn't one place in Scripture that says to be saved we have to accept Christ AND anything else. Before the Old Covenant, Enoch was raptured because he "walked with God" (Gen. 5:24). Noah was taken up above the Flood because he "walked with God" (Gen. 6:9). After the Old Covenant was in effect, Micah 6:8 says, "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" Under the New Covenant, we are to accept Christ for Salvation, period. However, those that also do justly, love mercy and walk humbly with God will be rewarded for their faithfulness. They will be like Enoch (which means dedicated, disciplined, well regulated, teacher), who "walked with God: and he was not; for God took him." Agape

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