Pro and Con 513

Posted 5-21-00

Incoming email

Re: Ron Wyatt´s experience
I wonder if you have seen the latest update on Ark of Covenant. It is interesting ; ) it even has a RAINBOW!

Based on what you have said about the doubting apostle, I believe that during tribulation hard evidence will be presented, and so anyone who have even a faint faith will see - but still a majority will not turn to God. The many discoveries of Ron Wyatt will no doubt help even the most doubting to believe.

Blessed are those that believe even though they don´t see... Here is the update: http://www.anchorstone.com/wyatt/aoc_update05.html

My reply

Thank you so much for giving me the exact URL. I went right to it. You know I've had trouble in the past with the Mac. It took forever to load the many images on that site. Several times, I just gave up without finding what I wanted to see. I now have an up-to-date computer. It had no problem with Ron's site whatsoever.

This was a very interesting update. I would have hated to miss out on this one. I hope everyone will visit this URL. Agape

Incoming email

From: William D. Brehm
Re: Our disagreements
Thank you for visiting my Web site and for taking the time to write back. I am aware of who you are. I have a copy of your book "The End of the Age" right next to my computer at the moment. I would not make such a lengthy reply as this except I know that many people listen to what you say about Prophecy. Knowing that, I have some things to say to you.

Out of intellectual honesty, I always admit that I could be wrong about anything I say relevant to Prophecy. I consider my views to be educated guesses. At the same time, however, as I have said many times before, I am certain that my views are more in harmony with both the Bible and reality than most of what I have heard relevant to Prophecy, on and off line, in recent years.

I know there are some points on which we agree and some on which we disagree. I would expect that. However, there are two major point on which we disagree wherein my overall familiarity with the subjects is such that if you told me your views in person, I would be tempted to laugh in your face.

Before I get into that, let me tell you something about myself, so that you will understand where I am coming from.

First, I am a minister's son (see my "Why I Believe" page )The day I got saved I knew more about the Bible and Christianity overall than some Christians ever know. (I might add that one of the biggest activities of my Christian life since has been Bible teaching and I have learned far more from doing that.) However, because of my Dad's attitude toward the subject, (See "Understanding the Book of Revelation" my mind was a blank slate on the subject of Prophecy at the time. All the views expressed in my Web site and other media are the results of my own study of the subject since.

Secondly, I have a high I.Q., circa 165, and as a boy I had a precocious interest in science, especially in astronomy and space travel. This was to the point that everyone expected me to become a great scientist (I became an artist). I also won several science awards in school, including one really big one. My reputation in the field followed me into college. Although I was not a science major, I was invited to join a group of science students doing research in the then-new field of laser technology.

Although my interest in science has long since ceased to be what it was then, I still keep myself well informed on the subject. Much more so than the average Christian. What I'm saying is that next to knowing the Bible, science, for a layman, is my subject. I have only met one Christian in my life who was better informed about science as a layman than I am.

It was my background in science that prepared me for my discovery, in the Spring of 1971, that Revelation 8:8 appears to describe an asteroid or comet collision. At the time, and for some years afterward, I was the only Christian I knew of who believed that. You are the first Christian I know of to teach it, other than myself.

Other than believing in the idea and occasionally mentioning it in my Bible classes, I did not do much with the idea for the first ten years or so. Then, in the early 80's, when cosmic collisions began to be a mass media topic, I did an intense study of the subject. It was during that time that I learned that if the events of Revelation 8:7-9:2 are viewed as different aspects of the same event, rather than a series of events, they form a detailed and accurate description, not only of a collision, but of its secondary effects as well. In fact, the description is so accurate that it constitutes evidence of the Divine inspiration of the Book of Revelation.

It was realizing that Trumpets 1-5 are all aspects of the same event that opened my eyes to the idea that it is the three woes (Revelation 8:13, 9:12, & 11:14), not the Seals, Trumpets,and Bowls (vials), that define the sequence of events on earth during the Tribulation. The Seals are opened, the Trumpets blown, and the Bowl are poured out, in Heaven. The three woes happen on earth.

This brings me to the things you say that I find ridiculous. First, the idea that the asteroid collision happens in the Mediterranean Sea. There is reason from both science and the Bible to believe that the repeated use of the term "a third" in Revelation 8 is a reference to the fact that the collision will devastate one third of the planet. The Biblical reason derives from the way Zechariah 13:8 & 9 relates to Revelation 8 & 9. The scientific reason has to do with the fact that most of the damage that would be done directly (not the long term climatic effects) by a collision would be limited to the 1/3 of the earth's surface nearest the point of impact. (Unless the object was a significant fraction of the size of the earth. In that case, the collision would be the end of the world, period.) Beyond the circumference of that area, the curvature of the earth would begin to put the surface out of harm's way.

If something like what Revelation 8:7-9:2 describes happens in the Mediterranean, forget about the rest of the Prophecies being fulfilled. All life in that area, except maybe lower forms such as insects and microbes, would be extinct.

Related to this, I find the whole Post Tribulation - Pre Wrath scenario contrary to be unscriptural. This can be discerned from the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:21 & 22. He said, in essence, that the Tribulation will be the worst thing that will ever happen to mankind. He said, in so many words that it will threaten the extinction of all life. Taking what He said in the context of the entire Bible, it must be concluded that He meant that the Tribulation will be worse in its overall impact on the human race than the Flood. My "Three Great Woes" pages show why this is so. The Tribulation is the wrath!!!!

I could take this further but I think I have made my point. Rather than continue to argue this, I want to say something further about myself:

There have been something in excess of a dozen events of significance in which history proved me right about some unusual stand I took on future events.I believe that the Lord gave me these experiences to show me that I can trust my unusual ideas. I probably would not be doing this ministry if I had not had them. Unfortunately, only one of these incidents is documented in my Web site. It was the stand I took on the Y2K Bug.

I made the prediction (See "Where is the Promise? ) that the Y2K Bug would not produce anything of the nature of a global social and economic catastrophe.

...If I say something is so, you had better believe that I have good reason for saying it. Again, I am teachable. I can be corrected. But you can't just tell me that I am wrong and present your contrary view and expect me to accept it. You have to tell me, with hard, checkable facts and/or relevant Scripture, as may apply, why I am wrong.

You need to think again about your views. Remember that you will answer to God for what you say. If you are telling people falsehood, you are setting them up for a terrible surprise. Believe me, I am painfully conscious of this, and that is a big part of the reason why I tell people not to make anyone's before-the-fulfillment interpretation of Prophecy a matter of faith. You must surely know how many interpretations of Prophecy, including but by no means limited to dates, have already been proven wrong by history. As far as I'm concerned, if I took the attitude, as some people do, that I couldn't be wrong, it would be an exercise in arrogant stupidity.

You should take the same attitude. See the pages "Report on the Stupider Effect" and "The Proper Handling of Prophecy" under "Other Important Topics" .

I am sorry if this offends you, but I am standing for what I believe to be the truth, and I will not compromise.

God bless you. Yours in Christ, William D. Brehm Jesus REALLY is coming soon. BE READY!!! http://www.be-ready.org

My reply

> > I find ridiculous. First, the idea that the asteroid collision happens in the Mediterranean Sea. There is reason from both science and the Bible to believe that the repeated use of the term "a third" in Revelation 8 is a reference to the fact that the collision will devastate one third of the planet. The Biblical reason derives from the way Zechariah 13:8 & 9 relates to Revelation 8 & 9....I am teachable. I can be corrected. But you can't just tell me that I am wrong and present your contrary view and expect me to accept it. You have to tell me, with hard, checkable facts and/or relevant Scripture, as may apply, why I am wrong.

Ok. Let the Bible speak. First, let's see how these two passages relate. The Bible information is centered on Israel and her surroundings there in the middle East. In the Bible, THE SEA and THE GREAT SEA are used over and over in reference to the Mediterranean Sea because it borders Israel. If another sea is meant, it is named or understood from the surroundings. A map of "The Near East" in my Bible has the label "The Great Sea (The Upper Sea, the Western Sea)" instead of the Mediterranean Sea. Instead of the Persian Sea, it says "The Lower (Eastern) Sea. The Red Sea is named. The Sea of Galilee and the Dead Sea are so small, they are not named.

Gen. 49:13 says, "Zebulun shall dwell at the haven of THE SEA (the Mediterranean); and he shall be for an haven of SHIPS; and his border shall be unto ZIDON" (a city on the coast of the Mediterranean Sea north of Tyre and SE of the island of Cyprus).

Rev. 8:8,9 says, "And the second angel sounded, and as it were A GREAT MOUNTAIN BURNING WITH FIRE (an asteroid) was cast into THE SEA: and the third part of THE SEA became blood; And the THIRD PART OF THE CREATURES WHICH WERE IN THE SEA, and had life, died (immediately); and THE THIRD PART OF THE SHIPS WERE DESTROYED."

That is the initial damage. The final effects are found under the second vial. Rev. 16:3 says, "And the second angel poured out his vial upon THE SEA; and it BECAME (over some more time) as the blood of a dead man: and EVERY LIVING SOUL DIED IN THE SEA."

This sea is large enough to have sea-going ships in it, and large enough for only 1/3rd of them to be destroyed by the initial impact. If a mountain-sized asteroid hit the Sea of Galilee or the Dead Sea, could this be true? I don't see how, do you? Looking at the map, it seems to me that Israel would be totaled if that happened. Also, neither the Sea of Galilee nor the Dead Sea have access to ocean traffic. Looking at this map, only the Mediterranean Sea seems possible to me.

The asteroid hits somewhere in the vicinity of Israel. Zechariah 13:8,9 says, " it shall come to pass, that in all THE LAND (eretz Israel), saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through THE FIRE, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God."

Zeph. 2:3-6 names specific Mediterranean-coast cities. It says, "seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S ANGER. For GAZA shall be forsaken, and ASHKELON a desolation: they shall drive out ASHDOD at the NOON day, and EKRON shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of THE SEA COAST, the nation of the Cherethites! the word of the LORD is against you; O Canaan, the LAND OF THE PHILISTINES, I will even destroy thee, that there shall be NO INHABITANT. And the SEA COAST shall be dwellings and cottages for shepherds, and folds for flocks."

The cities mentioned above are on THE GREAT SEA, the Mediterranean. Jos. 15:47 says, "ASHDOD with her towns and her villages, GAZA with her towns and her villages, unto the river of Egypt (the Nile empties into the Mediterranean), and THE GREAT SEA, and the border thereof."

Impact happens at noon. Jer. 6:4 says, "Prepare ye war against her; arise, and let us go up at NOON. Woe unto us! for the day goeth away, for the shadows of the evening are stretched out." Amos 8:9 says, "And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at NOON, and I will darken the earth in the clear day." Zeph. 2:4 says, "they shall drive out Ashdod at the NOON DAY." Job 5:14 says, "They meet with darkness in the day time, and grope in the NOONDAY as in the night." Psa. 91:5,6 says, "Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at NOONDAY." Jer. 15:8,9 says, " I have brought upon them against the mother of the young men a spoiler at NOONDAY: I have caused him to fall upon it suddenly, and terrors upon the city. She that hath borne seven languisheth: she hath given up the ghost; her sun is gone down while it was yet day." Job 20:23 says, "When he is about to fill his belly, God shall cast the fury of HIS WRATH upon him, and shall RAIN IT UPON HIM WHILE HE IS EATING."

II Sam. 22:16 says, "And the channels of THE SEA appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, AT THE REBUKING OF THE LORD, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils."

Jer. 47:2-4 says, " Thus saith the LORD; Behold, waters rise up out of the north, and shall be an OVERFLOWING FLOOD, and SHALL OVERFLOW THE LAND, and all that is therein; the city, and them that dwell therein: then the men shall cry, and all the inhabitants of THE LAND (eretz Israel) shall howl. At the noise of the stamping of the hoofs of his strong horses, at the rushing of his chariots, and at the rumbling of his wheels, the fathers shall not look back to their children for feebleness of hands; Because of THE DAY THAT COMETH TO SPOIL ALL THE PHILISTINES, and to cut off from TYRUS and ZIDON every helper that remaineth: for the LORD will spoil the Philistines, the remnant of the country of Caphtor (a wreath-shaped island)."

Eze. 25:15-17 says, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because the Philistines have dealt by revenge, and have taken vengeance with a despiteful heart, to destroy it for the old hatred; Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will stretch out mine hand upon the Philistines, and I will cut off the Cherethims, and DESTROY THE REMNANT OF THE SEA COAST. And I WILL EXECUTE GREAT VENGEANCE upon them with FURIOUS REBUKES; and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall lay MY VENGEANCE upon them."

Eze. 38:18-20 says, "And it shall come to pass at the same time WHEN GOG SHALL COME AGAINST THE LAND OF ISRAEL, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a GREAT SHAKING IN THE LAND OF ISRAEL; So that the FISHES OF THE SEA, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and ALL THE MEN THAT ARE ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, SHALL SHAKE at my presence (paneh, face, i.e., the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14-17), and THE MOUNTAINS (2 asteroids, Rev. 8:8,10) SHALL BE THROWN DOWN, and the steep places shall fall, and EVERY WALL SHALL FALL to the ground."

Hos. 4:3 says, " Therefore shall THE LAND (eretz Israel) mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, THE FISHES OF THE SEA ALSO SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY" ("and every living soul died in THE SEA," Rev. 16:3).

Hag. 2:6 says, "thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and THE SEA, and the dry land."

Amos 5:8 says, "Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that CALLETH FOR THE WATERS OF THE SEA, AND POURETH THEM OUT UPON THE FACE OF THE EARTH: The LORD is his name." Agape

Incoming email

I am a hindi girl from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia name -----. I am not a chrsitian but suddenly the feelings in me have come to fimd out more of christianity. I just don't know why. I am quite afraid to go to the local chruch and have not yet said a word of my sudden feeling to anybody. I have read in a magazine and also in your website about the rapture period. I kind of do not understand what is going to happen. I will really appreciate if someone could advise me in simple englsih as I have never read nor seen a bible.

Please email me or send me a webiste where I can check out in simple english. Regards

My reply

Thank you so much for writing. You are the third person I know of that I have written to in Kuala Lumpur. Both the others were Christian men. One sent me a 100-page book he had written. I wanted to give you his address, but I don't know where I put it when I got a new computer and had to clear space on my desk. Maybe I will remember later. I gave it to the 2nd man, and he did get in touch with him by telephone.

I will give you the information you need in as simple English as I can. If there is anything you do not understand, please ask questions. Your eternal destiny depends on your understanding this. God loves you and wants you in his adopted family. That is why you have these feelings to find out about Christianity. He is giving you those feelings and the means to find out what this is all about. I am pleased that you are responding to him and giving him a chance to bring you the information you need.

The real God is invisible to us, but all powerful. He created all the stars and planets, a world called Heaven, this Earth and mankind upon it. If we stop to think of all the miles and miles of nerves, arteries, veins, muscle fibers, specialized organs, chemical manufacturing abilities, healing abilities, growing, hearing, smelling, seeing, tasting, feeling, and our complicated thinking brain, we know that our bodies did not just happen by chance. They were planned and created in the beginning by God. He holds all things together by his power every minute of every day. Your every breath depends on him. He is closer to you than a brother.

When he created the first pair of humans, Adam and Eve, on Earth and put them near the Euphrates River, he gave them eyes that could not see God. He also tested them to see if they would obey him even though they could not see him. He talked with them and taught them things they needed to know, but he did not show himself to them. They failed their test. If they had not failed, they would have had eternal never-ending life from that time on. So would we, but God could not allow evil to exist forever. He wants better things for us than that. He knew ahead of time that they would fail and had a backup plan.

Ever since Adam sinned, all people have sinned, done things that are not right, things that are evil, so without God's backup plan, we would all be lost. We deserve to die for the sins we have committed. However, he did something so great for us, it shows the great love he has for us. He really cares about each one of us.

He sent his only begotten Son, born of a virgin, into this world to save us from the death we deserve. God was his Father. Because Jesus Christ was not born of the union of a man and a woman, he did not have the same sin nature that we have, that we all inherit from our fathers, because something was damaged in him when Adam sinned. Although Jesus was the Son of God, in other things, he was like us. Actually, he had two natures. He was God, and he was also man. He inherited his deity from his Father and his humanity from his mother.

The Son of God was born and grew up in Israel, and for his 33.5 years on this Earth, he never did anything wrong. Because he did not sin, not even once, he could be the perfect sacrifice for sin. He allowed himself to be crucified, to die a painful death, so he could take the punishment due us because of our sins. He was in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights, then he was resurrected, came back to life. He was seen alive for 40 days before he ascended to Heaven. He was seen by over 500 people. That he was resurrected is certain. No one else has ever done this. No one else can qualify to be our Saviour. He did this for us. He cared about us enough to go through all this just so we can be saved from the death we deserve. He is giving us a chance to live forever with him where he now lives, in Heaven.

God not only talked with Adam and Eve, he has spoken with his Holy Prophets. By his inspiration, the Holy Bible, God's written word to mankind, came to be recorded. It is our manual, so we have a chance to pass our test. Acts 4:12 says, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

For his perfect sacrifice to atone for our sins and apply to us, we have to accept him as our Saviour. God's plan of Salvation for mankind is very simple.

John was one of Jesus' followers. He saw Jesus before and after the Resurrection. He wrote more than one book in the Bible by the inspiration of God. In the Bible, John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

That means that if you, -----, believe in Christ, you will have everlasting life. Afterward, his spirit will witness to your spirit and you will know it is all true, but the first move is up to you. He draws you, but you have to come to him. Every man is put on this Earth to make this decision, will he or will he not accept Christ as his Lord and Saviour.

It could not be much simpler, but you do need to tell someone you believe in Christ. Romans 10:4-13, in the Bible says, That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Christ died for the sins of the whole world, but his sacrifice only applies to those people that actually accept him as their own personal Saviour. You see, mankind is being tested again, but in a different way. If we pray to God and tell him we accept his free gift of salvation, that we accept Jesus Christ as our own personal Saviour, we have eternal life from that moment on. Only those that accept Christ have eternal life. No one else does.

Man is made up of three parts, body, soul and spirit. Both the body and soul of a lost person can die. Only the body of a Christian can die. His soul and spirit never die, and we are promised new bodies a little later on. When the body dies, the real person, the soul and spirit that were in that body, go to Heaven to be with Christ and to wait for the time that they will get their new bodies. When they get them, they will be like Christ's resurrection body. It looked the same. It could be touched. He could eat, talk, walk and do all the things he did before, but he could also disappear right before someone's eyes or go through a closed door. This is the kind of body we are promised.

When the time comes for the ones who have accepted Christ and died to get their new resurrection bodies, Christ will bring them with him and come near Earth in the clouds. Those people will get their new bodies first, then we who have accepted Christ, but are still alive, will be caught up with them in the clouds. We will also get resurrection bodies. All of this group of Christians will be taken back to Heaven to live there too. It is a better place than Earth. There will be no evil there at all.

In the Bible, I Thessalonians 5:28 tells us about this. We call it the Rapture. It says, "Brothers (meaning other Christians), we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep (die, but are not really dead), or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words."

After we are Christians, we are to pray to God the Father in the name of Jesus, so we end up every prayer by saying, "in Jesus' name, Amen. The word "Amen" means "so be it." We can talk to God and know that he hears every word. We can tell him our problems and ask for his help in working through them. When we first accept Christ, he baptizes us with the Holy Spirit of God. From that moment, he lives in us and is always there to help when we ask for help and guidance. Another thing that happens when we first believe in Christ is that every sin we ever committed is forgiven--wiped off the books. We get a fresh start. Any sin committed after that, we are to pray and confess it to God. Then he cleanses us of all unrighteousness. We are counted as pure wise virgins and ready for the Lord Jesus Christ's appearance.

I think the Rapture is near and would love to hear from you again. I would like to meet you after the Rapture and give you a hug. We are in this together. Christ is drawing his people closer to him in preparation for his coming. He is drawing you. Will you come?
Blessings and much love in Christ

Incoming email

there is a very beautiful picture of Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, and the Pleiades, about the sun at this site: http://www.astronomynow.com/breaking.html. It was taken by the SOHO spacecraft. Also included on that site is an interesting article about Io, one of the moons of Jupiter, and a real "lake of fire" with fire and brimstone. Looking up, watching, and praying always. Much love

My reply

Thanks. It is an interesting site. I looked into several things while there. Agape

   Pro and Con 514   Or Return   Home


Contact me for more information at: mjagee@pe.net

Send me e-mail now

8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110


© 1996-2000, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 5-21-00