Pro and Con 514
Hos. 2:9 (Concordant) says, "I will return, And I take My grain (wheat, i.e., Pre-Trib Rapture) in its season (Pentecost, the wheat harvest festival) And My grape juice (i.e., Pre-Wrath Rapture) in its appointment" (Tishri 1, the vintage, the Feast of Trumpets).
I've just completed reading P/C 513, regarding the article from Mr. William D. Brehm. In his writing he states "... I am sure that my view are more in harmony with both the Bible and reality than most of what I have heard relevant to Prophecy,...", "The day I got saved I knew more about the Bible and Christianity overall than some Christians ever know.", "Secondly, I have a high I.Q...", " everyone expected me to become a great scientist...", " My reputation in the field followed me into college.", and "I have only met one Christian in my life who was better informed about science as a layman than I am."
Since the Bible allows to rebuke our brothers when we know they are wrong, (even though, I will also pray for forgiveness after writing this) I suggest that he reads the following from Paul:
1 Cor 1: 27-31; but God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong, God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom, our
righteousness and sanctification and redemption; 31 THEREFORE, AS IT IS WRITTEN, " LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST OF THE LORD."
I know you do not need my help regarding matters like this, but I, just as Paul, do not like to see anyone divide Christ! Sincerely, Your Brother in Christ
I am not ready. I know it. I am not saying this to be paranoid. I just know that I am not worthy to go in the First Rapture.
Certainly I believe that Jesus Christ is the King of kings and the Lord of lords. I believe that it is by grace that we are saved. Yet I do not adore God. I do not obey Him. I do not DO the Will of God.
I am only telling you because I am fully aware that I am not ready. This is not to illicit your help, but only to inquire whether God has anything to tell me through you.
I don't think that there is really anything that you can add to the Scriptures that would change my status and make me worthy. But, I am praying that God will have mercy and show me what I need to do to be ready, and that God will empower me to do those things that are necessary for me to do to be ready.
Anyway, I am going to the place where I live to pray now. If you have any word from God for me, whether Scripture, or Scripture-induced, or Holy Spirit induced, I await your reply. Your brother in Christ
You are already on the way. You realize that something must change. You are
not fooling yourself or putting off facing the problem. Now is the time to
deal with it. You feel rather distant from God, lack fellowship with him,
and know that the first thing to do is pray. That is the right instinct.
That is how you will get close to him.
God is spirit. In him we live and move and have our being. When we accept
Christ, he is in us. Prayers don't have to get to Heaven. He knows our
thoughts and intents of the heart. He speaks to us through his word. He is
with you and knows you better than you know yourself.
The first scripture to look at is in First John, the disciple that Jesus
loved. John was full of joy and excited. He had actually SEEN Jesus, HEARD
him, had FELLOWSHIP with him, BEFORE and AFTER the Resurrection, and had
fellowship with Him AFTER the Ascension too. He KNEW that because of the
incarnation, fellowship with GOD was possible.
He spoke of "That which was from the beginning, which we have HEARD, which
we have SEEN with our eyes, which we have LOOKED upon, and our hands have
HANDLED, of the Word of life; (For the life was MANIFESTED, and we have SEEN
it, and bear WITNESS, and SHEW UNTO YOU that eternal life, which was with
the Father, and was MANIFESTED UNTO US;) That which we have SEEN and HEARD
declare we unto you, THAT YE ALSO MAY HAVE FELLOWSHIP with us: and truly our
fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
"And THESE THINGS WRITE WE UNTO YOU, THAT YOUR JOY MAY BE FULL.
"THIS THEN IS THE MESSAGE which we have heard of him, and declare unto you
that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Sin interrupts and forms a barrier between us and God. Confession
disintegrates that barrier and restores the fellowship you long for. When
you are in fellowship, walk in the light and you will stay in fellowship.
When you slip and sin, which we all do as long as we are in this body,
confess it that second and get it out of the way. Let your joy be full.
John writes to "little children," but it is really "teknia," born ones,
"because ye have known the Father." We could think born-again ones. In 2:18, he starts to talk to this last generation. He says, "Little children, it is THE LAST TIME," which can mean THE LAST YEAR, as a "time" is a year in Rev. 12:6,14). "But ye have an unction (ANOINTING) from the Holy One, and ye know all things." By verse 27, he says, "But the ANOINTING which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, YE SHALL ABIDE IN HIM. And now, little children, ABIDE IN HIM; that, WHEN HE SHALL APPEAR, we may have CONFIDENCE, and not be ashamed before him at his coming."
Get in that comfort zone of fellowship, and you will feel the agape love of God flowing in you and through you to others. Blessings. I'm praying for you. Agape
Re: rapture when?
I last contacted May2 and mentioned my dream of July '98
that revealed a complete pattern of 3.5 yr & 7 yr units,totalling 70 yrs
from May '48, which I understand as this last generation before the 1000 yrs
of peace,beginning 2018.(Ezekiel 39:22)
This also cross checked with the long- published interpretation of
Eze.4,which has the complete return of Jews to Israel in 2004, and places
the rapture at November 2000.
In response to your comments on 2Thess.2:1-3,you are correct with your use
of "day of Christ" vs"Day of the Lord",but they are the same in any
case. You seem to believe this day refers to the Messiah's 1000yr reign of
peace. Joel 2:1,Amos 5:19,Zeph.1:14,and others describe "the day of the
Lord"as that period of wrath & trouble which includes tribulation
for careless christians & unbelieving Jews,7 seals,plagues,Armageddon,etc.
So Paul is saying--we will "not" be
gathered together to him (raptured)until we first see some unspecified
event called the apostasy(Gk),followed by the revealing of the man of
sin(you say false prophet--I say Antichrist)--maybe they both rise together
to promote each other.
Here in Sydney,the Primate(head) of the Anglican Church of Australia
was recently ordained,in spite of strong opposition from bible believing
members,both clerics and laity.His liberal views and lack of spiritual
depth stamp him as the right material for United Religion. I wonder if this
expected signing on June 26 could be the act signifying the "falling away"
The economic event in James 5 must also come before the rapture,as v7
says,"be patient therefore brethren,for the Lords coming is close at hand.
I enjoy the spirit in which you write,above all else. Do you believe in
praying in tongues? Will you keep your site open if you are still here
after Pentecost? Agape back
> > rapture at November 2000
I think Song of Sol. 2:10-14 shows us that the Rapture is in the spring. The only feast that fits into the small time slot of when there are green figs and firstripe grapes is Pentecost. Israel was betrothed to the Lord on Pentecost as a fore shadow. The Pre-Trib Rapture is the first trump. The first trump of the Bible sounded at Sinai.
> > "day of Christ" vs"Day of the Lord",but they are the same in any
case. You seem to believe this day refers to the Messiah's 1000yr reign of
peace. Joel 2:1,Amos 5:19,,and others describe "the day of the
Lord"as that period of wrath & trouble which includes tribulation
for careless christians & unbelieving Jews,7 seals,plagues,Armageddon,etc
I don't see any way that they could be the same. There are TWO days of Christ and only ONE Day of the Lord. Lu. 17:22 says, "The days will come, when ye shall desire to see ONE of the DAYS of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it." The "ONE" is the Pre-Trib Rapture, the FIRST TRUMP (I Thess. 4:16), which is as the days of NOAH (Lu. 17:26). The SECOND is the Pre-Wrath Rapture, the "LAST TRUMP" (I Cor. 15:51,52), which is as the days of LOT (Lu. 17:28).
Nu. 10:2-4 says, " Make thee TWO TRUMPETS of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest USE THEM FOR THE CALLING OF THE ASSEMBLY, AND FOR THE JOURNEYING OF THE CAMPS. And when they shall blow with them (both), ALL (as in I Cor. 15:51,52) the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee." These princes are the elders of Rev. 4:4.
When the False Prophet comes on stage Mid-Trib, he is depicted as having "TWO HORNS LIKE A LAMB" (Rev. 13:11). Christ was represented by the Ram caught in the thicket that Abraham sacrificed. Christ has TWO HORNS. This has a double reference. He has two comings, and he sounds the trump of God two times. The first trump of God is in I Thess. 4:16. The second trump of God is the "last trump" of I Cor. 15:51,52. Where there is a last trump, there is a first trump.
Joel 2:1-3 cannot be anything but one single day. No other day is like it--ever. Every day of the whole Tribulation is not a day of attack and thick darkness. Joel says, "Blow ye the trumpet (it is the Feast of Trumpets) in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A DAY OF DARKNESS and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; THERE HATH NOT BEEN EVER THE LIKE, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them."
You must mean Amos 5:20. It says, "Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?" Every day in the Tribulation is not "VERY DARK," only one certain day is the day of thick darkness, the Feast of Trumpets (Tishri 1) that begins the millennial Day of the Lord.
Zeph.1:13-17 says, "Therefore their goods shall become a booty, and their houses a desolation: they shall also build houses, but not inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards (Tishri is the vintage), but not drink the wine thereof. The great day of the LORD is near, it is near (this is the Preparation of Trumpets, 6th seal, Rev. 6:12-17), and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. That day is A DAY of wrath, A DAY of trouble and distress, A DAY of wasteness and desolation, A DAY of darkness and gloominess, A DAY of clouds and thick darkness, A DAY of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung." This cannot take place every day of the Tribulation.
Rev. 6:12-17 shows that the breaking of the 6th seal is "the great day of his wrath." The 6th seal is not broken every single day of the Tribulation, either.
> > So Paul is saying--we will "not" be gathered together to him (raptured)until we first see some unspecified event called the apostasy(Gk),followed by the revealing of the man of sin(you say false prophet--I say Antichrist)--maybe they both rise together to promote each other.
None is so blind as he who will not see. I Thess. 2:1-4 (NIV) says, "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him (at the Rapture), we ask you, brothers (believers), not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying the DAY OF THE LORD has already come. Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until (1) the rebellion (apostacia, departure, the Rapture) occurs and (2) the man of lawlessness in revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple proclaiming himself to be God."
That happens in the middle of the Tribulation, and the DAY OF THE LORD still has not come. It is the Wrath of God on the first day of the Day of the Lord that deposes this "man of lawlessness," the final Satan-possessed Antichrist.
> > I wonder if this expected signing on June 26 could be the act signifying the "falling away" apostasy
It certainly is an apostasy. It is not the "falling away," which is the departure, the Rapture. Draw away would be more accurate than apostasy here. A kindred word, "apospao" is translated "draw away" and "withdraw." "Apostasion" is separating, as in a divorce. "Apostello" means "send away." Can't you see the connection? or do you just not want to see it? The day of the Rapture may be almost upon us. It is important that you understand what God in telling you in these verses. He who thinks it is far off may not be ready when the Bridegroom surprises him.
> > Do you believe in praying in tongues? Will you keep your site open if you are still here after Pentecost?
I just prayed that if the Lord wanted me to speak in tongues, I would, and if he did not want me to, I wouldn't. I haven't. Yes, I'll keep on as long as the Lord provides the means. Agape
FWD: Think you'll like this one from 5D
There are 48 constellations in the sky, that tell us the Way of the
Kingdom. They were formed and personally named by Yehovah
Himself, to show us the plan of redemption, and the future that He has
in store for us. Many of them are glorious in their appearance and
individuality of characteristics. Many of them, regardless of what some
say, actually look like the picture that describes them.
However, as glorious as they all may be, each in their own way, there
ONE Constellation that stands above the rest, in Glory and Majesty and
in the Message Proclaimed. It is the one Constellation that most people
can easily identify in the Starry Mural. That is the Constellation of
Orion. It is this Constellation that the Rabbim tell us is specifically
related to endtimes events. It is this constellation that the last two
comets drew our attention to. And, it is this constellation that is the
Perfect Description of our High Priest that walks amoung the Seven
If we define the star names, and the words that they are associated with,
then we can get a pretty good Picture, of what God has to say about this
most famous of Constellations.
Meissa: Burden, Tribute, Lifting Up, Patiality, Respect, Pay interest
a Dept. Here we have the concept of this individual being the
KINSMAN REDEEMER!!! And this will be born out by our next star
Al Rai: Husband, Brother, Neighbor, Companion, Associate, Noise of
War, Thunder. And here, you have the counter part to the Kinsman
Redeemer, and that is THE AVENGER OF BLOOD, for it was a near
kinsman that would avenge the death someone. And this aspect is
shown in this name.
Thabit: Whiteness, describing the countenance of this individual,
described by John as, "His hed and hairs were white like wool, as white
Rigol: To Walk Along, To Reconoiter. Here, He can be seen in the
process of walking amoung the candlesticks. But, that is not all, for
can also be seen as one who surveys the enemies territory, before He
begins a war against them. Again, His aspect of the Avenger of Blood is
hinted at here. As well, you have the connection to the milkey way, or
path to heaven contained here as well.
Saiph: Reserve, DoorKeeper, To Snatch Away. This perfectly describes
our High Priest, after He has finished judging the Seven Churchs, when
He takes them away to be with Him where He is. And this is seen in the
Betelguise: Separate, Virgin, City or State, Hard Rain. And here you
have the separation process that occurs at the Rapture, and a hint of
City of New Jerusalem. But this concept is also contained in another
Bellatrix: Anxiety of Heart, Failure, Reeling, Door, Palace. Here
you have the concept of the Palace or Heavenly Jerusalem, and as well
you have the feelings of those left behind.
Heka: Palace or Temple
Oar: Watchfullness, which is where the current title of this
comes from. He is the one who Searches the Reins and Hearts.
Al Giauza: To Cut Down Trees. This is refering to princes, of both the
Church and the World, which will be cut down as a result of the
Rapture and Tribulation. This is also backed up by another star name.
Niphla: A Feller of Trees.
Al Mirzam: Whip, Lash, Domineering, Master, to Prune a Twig. Again,
the concept of the Cutting Off is contained in this Constellation as
which we know occurs at the Rapture.
Al Nagjed: To Oppose, Clear the Way, Flow, Manifest. This all happens
at the Rapture, and is surprisingly connect to the milkey way itself,
starry path that leads to heaven.
So, with these star names, and more besides, you have a perfect
description of the Son of God as He appears in the Revelation. His
position as our Kinsman Redeemer, coming to Avenge the Blood of His
Kinsman. To wage war agaist the enemey. To purify the Church and
take them home. Even the concept of the DoorKeeper is contained
herein, and the Manifestation of God's Son as well. There is no doubt
that The Constellation of Orion, is Picturing Yeshuah at His Return
I e-mailed you some time ago...I keep reminding myself that God will not allow me
to experience anything He knows I won't be able to cope with and that gives
me the strength to carry on.
I am getting really excited about June 9/10 and will be keeping both my boys
at home with me that weekend (the older one spends weekends with his Dad).
I owe so much to you - your work has made my life and Christian experience
so rich. I hope that this time we really are going home.
If not, carry on. I know you have done a lot for many, many people all over
the world. I look forward to the few times a week when I have the time and
peace to get stuck into your website.
I look forward to meeting you one day - soon.
You don't have to reply to this - I just wanted to thank you again for waking me up.
Greetings to you Marilyn in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ!
I have a couple of questions I hope you will be able to help me sort
The first is this- What do you think will become of those who are living
righteous lives and walking with the Lord in white garments, but who
because of faulty doctrines preached to them through their lives think
that all Christians will have to endure the Great Tribulation? They are
not expecting a pre-trib rapture. Do you think they will be left
behind, or will they partake in the first rapture?
My second question is this-While the two-rapture theory makes a lot of
sense to me, it implies that there would have to be a "line" you cross
to be good enough to go in the first rapture and if you were just one
sin behind it you would be left behind. How do you think we will
measured for our worthiness to escape the tribulation? Thank you for
your time and keep up the great work! God Bless You! Maranatha!
Your sister in Christ
Righteous is righteous, i.e., ready for the first Rapture, no matter what they think about the timing.
As to the 2nd question, we are not told. Christ is the judge, not me. Agape
I have inquired to the Lord about windstorms that have brought
down millions of trees lately.I was given my answer that these storms are
WARNING SIGNS sent for the purpose to wake this generation up,among the
many other signs testifying that the Rapture, and Great tribulation are
about to commence.I have been told by a prophet recently to get my head out
of the way,that I was going to see miracles,soon after he left I went into
panic attacks that I never experienced before,Why because the Lord is
focusing my attention for time is very short.I need to confess my sins, for
I fall short of the glory of God.I want to be made in his image and
likeness!The Rapture may indeed be this spring for the pieces are fitting
into place at a RAPID RATE.I have a desire to spend the rest of my time in
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2000 12:51 PM
Subject: Rapture question
Marilyn, I have been reading you site everyday for over a year
now...just about the time I accepted salvation and was baptized on March
21, 1999. I didn't know much about the bible or where to start...all I
know is that the Holy Spirit directed me to this rapture site. I am
convinced that the Holy Spirit is working through you to reach others
who like me were in the body of Christ but maybe did not have Christ in
them (filled with the Holy Spirit)...making the understanding of the
bible difficult if not impossible to understand. Thank you for showing
me the difference of having the Holy Spirit and being filled with the
Holy Spirit....I now have understanding....your rewards will be
I do have a question on scripture (kjv)? So the last shall be first,
and the first last; for many be called, but few chosen Matt . 20:16. I
know this scripture refers to the workers in the vineyard that were
hired last were paid first, and ones hired first were paid last. it
seems that the workers that worked for just a few hours were paid the
same as the workers that worked all day. My question is does this
parable refer to the Pre-trib. and pre-wrath raptures? The first shall
be last ...are those the ones who were called ( saved, have the Holy
Spirit) not chosen ...are they to go with the second group
pre-wrath.?...and the few chosen ones...the ones that are (saved and
filled with the Holy Spirit) ...is this the group that goes with the
first group (pre-trib)? It seems the householder e.g (Christ) Called
the workers e.g. (Christians), that worked the full eight hours, but he
called and chose the ones in the market place that were ultimately paid
first ( pre-trib).
what is your understanding? Your neighbor in ----- and Brother in Christ.
> > So the last shall be first, and the first last; for many be called, but few chosen Matt . 20:16
I'm glad you asked for my understanding, for I wouldn't want to be dogmatic about this. In this parable of the laborers in the vineyard, it seems to mean in general that equal faithfulness to one's opportunity will be rewarded equally, even though the time one works is different.
Some scriptures have both a general and a specific application. Other times, one section is specific, another section is general. Just before this parable, in Mt. 19:27, "Peter...said unto him (Jesus), Behold, we (apostles) have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory (on the Feast of Trumpets that begins the Millennium), ye also shall sit upon TWELVE THRONES (i.e., be elders and have crowns), judging the twelve tribes of Israel (at the Judgment Seat of Christ that same day). And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first." I wonder if the last in this context might refer to Paul. In I Cor. 15:8, he said, "And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time." Paul would receive a throne and crown the same as the other eleven, and he might receive it first. He seems deserving of this recognition.
After that, Jesus went right into the parable of the laborers in the vineyard, maybe moving from the specific to the general. All the laborers, even though some worked longer than others, will receive their reward. Agape
Subject: Children and the Rapture
I hope all is well with you and Ed. Many thanks and gratitude to you for your
Some time ago I read an apologetic on children and the Rapture. The position
stated was that children of Christian parents below the age of accountability
would be Raptured with their parents. Children of non-Christians below the age
of accountability would remain here on Earth with their parents and suffer
through the Tribulation, but are saved for all Eternity.
What does God's Word say on this matter as you understand and discern it? I'm
having difficulty reconciling this issue in my mind.
Thank You for your time and may God richly bless you. Look forward to seeing you in New Jerusalem (I hope and pray that the Rapture is Pentecost 2000).
Thanks for your kind words. Hope all is well with you too. We're ok, but Ed is complaining of no energy. His mouth says he is ready to go to lunch, but his body still sits in the chair. It takes an act of will power to get started. His feet drag the floor as he shuffles along. I'm having fun with my Bible Plus program.
We have to guess about the children, but I agree with the above, except I do think they are responsible for themselves at 13. That is why Jesus went to the temple at 12. He was preparing for his Bar Mitzvah at 13. Children need some good solid instruction when 12. Of course, Jesus knew more than his teachers, but he went along with convention, setting a good example.
At the second Rapture, it seems that all children might be caught up. They are innocents needing to be kept from God's Wrath. I can't be sure, though. Agape
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2000 5:21 PM
Subject: another letter from denver
Please be so kind as to answer a question or two for me. Why does Jesus
come in the air, the first time..and ride to the earth the second coming???
Why is it that Satan has a lease on the planet anyway??? And perhaps this is
juveniel, but do you spend time in prayer speaking to all three persons in
the trinity seperately??? It is a bit confusing....in that Jesus gave us a
prayer to "Our Father" and yet we confess our sins to Him and seek to
understand the Holy Spirit.
Thank you for the time and consideration and the encouragement of your
website. The future here on earth is global slavery....the future with Christ is freedom from that slavery....did you know that the price for a slave was 30 pieces of silver????How can the world believe this....its really just too good to be true. Thanks Again
> > Why does Jesus come in the air, the first time..and ride to the earth the second coming
He is coming the first time to get his Bride and take her back to Heaven The just shall walk by faith. He does not show himself to people on Earth at that time. At the Second Advent, he comes all the way to Earth, with all his saints, to set up the millennial government.
> > Why is it that Satan has a lease on the planet anyway
God gave Adam dominion over Earth. When Adam failed his test to obey God, Satan got dominion and man's test being mortal and knowing both good and evil began.
> > do you spend time in prayer speaking to all three persons in the trinity seperately
No. We are supposed to pray to the Father in Jesus' name.
> > did you know that the price for a slave was 30 pieces of silver
Yes. I think that came from Ex. 21:32: "If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned." Agape
Pro and Con 515 Or Return
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