Pro and Con 516

Posted 5-25-00

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Re: GPS to track people

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Re: the two witnesses, moses and elijah
I am attempting to understand how the two witnesses (during the tribulation) could be Moses and Elijah. I believe you said they will be coming back (from the dead) to be the witnesses and they will have to die again. I thought that Moses and Elijah would be in the resurrection that precedes the start of the tribulation.....that they would be resurrected in the perfected body like Jesus' and would never die again. How could they have the resurrected body and yet have to come back to be the witnesses and die again? Thank you for your time and answers.

My reply

Elijah didn't die. He was raptured. II Ki. 2:11 says, "And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."

Satan disputed with Michael about the body of Moses. Jude 9 says, "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."

Moses is proof that the dead are really alive after the death of the body. Elijah is proof that we can be raptured. That Moses dies again is not much different from Lazarus, who died twice. General rules do have a few exceptions.

I think we can know for sure who these two are. Rev. 11:4 says of the TWO WITNESSES, "These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth." Zech. 4:12-14 says, "What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD (YHVH) of the whole earth." Both Moses and Elijah stood with Christ (YHVH of hosts, the Redeemer, Isa. 44:6) at the Transfiguration. Mt. 17:2,3 says Christ "was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them MOSES and ELIAS talking with him." That was before the Crucifixion.

Did Moses and Elijah WITNESS the Crucifixion and Resurrection? At the tomb, the women brought spices, and "behold, TWO MEN stood by them in shining garments" (Lu. 24:4). After Jesus ascended, "behold, TWO MEN stood by them in white apparel" (Acts. 1:10). There is a good chance that they were Moses and Elijah.

Do Moses and Elijah WITNESS the Satan-possessed False Prophet sitting in the temple "shewing himself that he is God" (II Thess. 2:4) so that they can testify against them both later on? Is that really why the False Prophet is furious enough to kill the TWO WITNESSES? De. 17:6 says, "At the mouth of TWO WITNESSES, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death." Agape

My reply

...I just happened to notice, on P & C 510, that the woman who died said, "I am --- the one who had the death experience some years ago..was taken to Heaven by the 2 men in white..and then The Heavenly Father said, "Not Yet"." There is that TWO MEN IN WHITE again. Do you suppose they are also Moses and Elijah? What else might they WITNESS? Whew! They could be two very busy men in the background. There is so much we are not told, but can only guess at. Agape

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From: William D. Brehm
Dear Marilyn, I was just reading your putdown of my letter telling you about myself as posted in your Web site. If you think, as you apparently do, that my refusal to post a warning about the Y2K Bug, and rather putting up a message in February 99 saying there would be not castastrophe, is something trivial, see this Web page:,1284,36472,00.html

As I said, this is only the latest, and unfortunately, the only presently documentable incident wherein history has proven me right. Again, there have been over a dozen others of significance.

Meanwhile, I know of an expert on Second Coming Prophecy who recently blew it with two consecutive predictions of the date of the Rapture. Any idea who I'm referring to?

You should apply that Scripture in I Corinthians 8:2 to yourself.
Yours in Christ

My reply

I'm sorry you missed the part about that being INCOMING email. I didn't say any of that. I don't want to put down anyone. I don't want to boast, and as far as I know, I haven't. I am a very humble person. What I have learned is by the grace of God and is spread over the last 40 years of intensive Bible study. I also do not make predictions. I am not a prophet and can only tell how it looks to me. It is the duty of everyone to not accept anything without checking to see if it squares with the Bible. I learn all the time.

I am hoping the Rapture will be this Pentecost. That is not a prediction, but the way it looks to me. It looks like we are in the last of the 7 good years that started when the Oslo Accords were signed Sept. 13, 1993. The United Religions charter is slated to be signed June 26, 2000. The Final Status Peace Agreement is due to be signed Sept. 13, 2000. It looks to me like we are running out of time. How does it look to you?

Christians are supposed to deal with each other in God's agape love. Let's discuss things we differ on, not argue, not have any chips on our shoulder. We could both profit by dialog between us. God gives insight into different areas to different people. If we put them together, we might get farther in our understanding than now. I think we agree on how to be saved. I agree with you that "Jesus REALLY is coming soon. BE READY!!!" Let's start there and have some meaningful discussions. I'll tell you why I believe certain things. You tell me why you believe in certain things. If we are right about Christ, we will both get to Heaven, even if we are wrong about something else. Salvation is faith plus nothing.

What do you make of the scriptures that indicate the great mountain burning with fire will impact the Mediterranean Sea? Agape

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From: child of God 2000. Re: Praise the Lord
I hope you are fine.Thanks a lot for the encouraging letter you sent me last time.You told me to prepare a letter and put the bible for my unsaved family members oooh i was just planning to do that.Any way we are approaching the final days fast.You are indeed blessed enought to meet the Lord with your whole family.When i was a baby my mother held my hands that i could learn to walk.Today Jesus Christ holds my hands and He is taking me away from my mother.It breaks me when i still see my family unsaved hurrying scurrying in day to day activities.I know i leave them behind to a 7 year tribulation.But i am not sad.Because i know i will have a father in GOD , a elder brother in Jesus Christ and a comforting mother in the Holy Spirit.What the tribulation holds for my family here i do not know. i belong to that unfortunate nation of billion people who have no head and tail of what is going to happen.I know what the antichrist will do. i do not know how he will he will affect my family...but i know..what he does..The rapture is not just a event in mankind's short and and violent history but a new begining .Although i respect your views on the dear planets of our solar system i believe with all my heart that the heaven we love and wait to go is somwhere is far away from the dirt and dust of this earth ,the cosmic disturbances of the universe and other ufo's who zip by but heaven is near our hearts is a place untouched my man's selfishness and pride his space probes or his radio waves..but only onething of man enters the heaven that is his prayer to Jesus.

Heaven is the place promised by Jesus in the sermon on the mount.It is the place where the poor,the meek the broken,the faithful,the humble are comforted and rewarded.A place so near to the most loving and imaculate heart of Jesus.A place where we can see how GOD loves us so dearly.Where we can be forever with HIM nothing can seperate us from HIS LOVE..i look forward marilyn to be with you and all other believers of mankind in His kingdom at the rapture. I still hope and pray that the dates estimated are true if not i pray that you are not discouraged but to continue being a torchbearer like st.john the baptist who shouts "repent for the kindom of heaven is at hand" .I really look forward to meeting you in case rapture is as said on those days.Yet so much to do but so little time. :)

i am studying for my semester exams anyway i dont want to take the risks..well the rapture takes place well and good ..saved from the tribulation in the world and also the tribulation at the exam hall.:))

GOD bless you Marilyn and all those who see your wonderful website before and after the rapture as well.

anyway before i end this letter could you please tell me about the 10 day tribulation told in the second chapter of the book of revelation and also about Christ's assesment of the churches.i just got a little confused in a pro and con where u said the last 10 days..

also a little quiet in the world right now.Israel palestine clashes were worst this a days Israel does figure a lot in indian news i dont know why.when pakistan and india train their nuclear tipped missiles on to each other's cities no one cares, but when yasser arafat smiles at ehud barak then it is headlines even in the local news..its really strange.

The URI scheduled to be signed soon is of real concern.But what is to happen is to happen. I do hope moses and elijah's messages reach the yet unsaved billions in asia. And i wish and pray that on the first day in office a crow drops on the antichrist's face,and he slips on a banana peel. GOD bless you in all the goodness of HIS love.

My reply

How nice to hear from you again. I just heard from a "hindi" girl in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. I am including her email and my answer. You may understand where she is coming from better than I do and know how to reach her.

> > tell me about the 10 day tribulation told in the second chapter of the book of revelation and also about Christ's assessment of the churches

I have just come to realize that those 7 messages to the churches in Rev. 2 and 3 are probably Christ's assessment of the living believers on Ascension Day, 10 days before the Rapture on Pentecost. That is the only way I can think of that the tribulation of 2:10 could be limited to just 10 more days, no matter who it was or where they were in the world.

We do have the hope that our unsaved relatives will wake up and accept Christ during the Tribulation. That way, we will be reunited with them at the second Rapture.

Don't worry about me getting discouraged. I can't imagine that happening, no matter what. I'm an overcomer. I know who Christ really is. Nothing can dent my faith. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Dying more than once.
The subject of whether one dies once or not has always been of interest to me as there are clearly cases where people have died more than once . e.g. Lazarus and others who were raised from the dead, as you rightly pointed out.

However although all these people died twice, their bodies did not see decay and corruption more than once. This is the interesting part as Moses was buried by God (Deuteronomy 34.6) and actually no one knows for sure what happened to his body. Does this mean that in some way his body did not see decay on that occasion? I dont know but there is something rather extraordinary about his death circumstances. And it does not end there.

Has is ever occurred to you that the two persons described in Acts 1.10 (two men stood by them in white apparel)..... notice MEN not angels, could have been Moses and Elijah ? And what is more it is possible that they had a pretty continuous sort of witnessing job to do starting at the transfiguration, and then on to the empty tomb...yes, it could be them again in Luke 24.4...two MEN stood by them in shining garments...then they go on to say ..."he is not here but is risen: Remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee.

This means that they may also have been present themselves in Galilee in order to be able to testify this .

I am left with the impression that these two men were witnesses to a lot more than is readily apparent from the straight reading of the scriptures. Then, suddenly it all falls into place when you realise that under Jewish law, a guilty party could only be convicted of murder on the reliable testimony of TWO WITNESSES who saw the crime take place. This means of course that when the two witnesses begin their ministry in the tribulation, in order for them to be accredited witnesses of Jesus's trial, death and subsequent resurrection and ascention under Jewish law (and remember that unbelieving Israel is a sort of plaintiff at the start of their ministry), they would HAVE TO HAVE BEEN THERE TO SEE THE WHOLE THING HAPPEN.

I think that Moses and Elijah could possibly have been privvy to the entire thing from the transfiguration through to the ascention of our Lord, in order to fulfill the necessary requirements of the Jewish witnessing system laid out in the O.T.

In closing, I might add that there is a Jewish tradition that Moses did not die, and in fact I heard of a book on the subject some weeks ago although I do not have the name right now although I could get it if you are interested.

Did you get an E mail from me on the subject of the merging of the stock exchanges of London and Frankfurt? The reason I ask is that I have been having a bit of a problem with my system here and I am not sure that it got through to you.

I would be glad of your views on the continuous two witness postulation above. See you soon.

My reply

I think the two men in white apparel in Acts 1:10 were Moses and Elijah. Even when they are called angels, if there are two (as in Jn. 20:12), I wonder if they are Moses and Elijah. The word translated angels means messengers, which can apply to Moses and Elijah. There is a possibility that they were in on more than we know for sure, as you surmise. I hadn't thought of them being there witnessing the crucifixion, but why not?

Yes, I got the email on the stock exchanges merging. Thanks for all your good information. Agape

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Re: All have sinned!
The Holy Spirit had to remind me that All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.That is what makes the Rapture so Great,we will all be changed!My thoughts and prayers are with your family. p.S.the 10 day gap between Ascension day and Pentecost must be there for a good reason.Louis.

My reply

Thanks. I agree with you on all counts.

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Subject: new cradle of civilization found

It is in Syria, and confirms that civilization is 6000 years old! Yet another confirmation that the bible is right. Our "6 days" is just about over.

This near death experience is similar to that described in "Embraced by the Light". That lady (I forget her name) who died had 2 guides or witnesses meet her and go along with her, and described them as friends from countless ages past, who were with her again in heaven. Did not sound like Moses and Elijah. Makes me wonder if each of us will have a couple of escorts for our trip skyward. Reminds me of the lady who said "there was nothing to hang onto" in a rapture dream. Maybe there will be.

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Re: Schrist will not judge
You said Christ will judge the world.. you are wrong. He came to savr the world not judge it. God the Father will do the judging of the world. Christ will judge believers only, and then only for rewards. Bible scholar...I think are misleading many.

My reply

Then what does Jn. 5:22 mean? It says, "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed ALL judgment unto the Son."

What does Rev. 11:18 mean? It says, " And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; AND SHOULDEST DESTROY THEM WHICH DESTROY THE EARTH." Agape

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Subject: A Thank You.
Thank you for the very scripturally correct message to the girl from Kuala Lumpur. If you were openminded enough to realize that you could be wrong about the 2300 days and recognize that it is ridiculous to assume any member of the Godhead occupies a planet in our solar system we could have some meaningful exchanges of ideas. Isaiah 57:15 tells us God inhabits eternity and Eternity is completely outside the realm of both the first and second heavens of Genesis 1. We live in finite time that will come to an end when there is 'no more night'. Praise the Lord! God bless you.

My reply

And thank you too. I am open minded. I have studied as hard as I could go for the last 40 years. I know what I believe and exactly why I believe it. However, if you can show me that the scriptures mean something else, I'll change my view in a flash. I don't have any pet theories to defend. I just want to know as much about the Bible as possible in the time I have. If you can contribute anything to my learning, please do. We agree on how to be saved. We do not have to agree on other things, but can discuss them and see if one understands something the other one missed. Two heads are better than one if both heads are teachable. If there are points that we can't reach a consensus on, we can agree to disagree agreeably on that and go on to something else more profitable. No two people are ever going to agree on every point. The Bible is too complex for that.

> > If you were openminded enough to realize that you could be wrong about the 2300 days

I could be wrong about a lot of things, including the 2300 days. I'll tell you why I believe they are the shortened Tribulation, and you look over my reasons and see if they are reasonable or not.

The Great Tribulation is to be shortened. Mt. 24:21,22 says, " For then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except THOSE DAYS (of the Great Tribulation) should be SHORTENED, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be SHORTENED."

We know that the shortened time will be revealed somewhere in Scripture. In Mk. 13:23 Jesus said, "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you ALL things."

It seems that the Jews will sacrifice during the first half of the Tribulation (Rev. 11:1-3). The False Prophet will become Satan-possessed in Mid-Trib, when Satan is cast down to Earth (Rev. 12:9). He will not lose any time, but will go immediately to sit in the "temple of God, shewing himself that he is God" (II Thess. 2:4). Thus, the sacrificing stops because the temple is desecrated.

Dan. 8:10-14 is talking about these things. It says, " And it (a little horn) waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it (Satan, who is now in the False Prophet) cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them (1/3rd of the fallen angels are cast down, Rev. 12:4). Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and BY HIM THE DAILY SACRIFICE WAS TAKEN AWAY, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, HOW LONG shall be the vision concerning THE DAILY SACRIFICE (i.e., the first half of the Tribulation), and the transgression of desolation (sitting in the temple shewing himself to be God and putting an idol at the temple), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? (i.e., the time when they can sacrifice plus the time that they cannot) And he said unto me, Unto TWO THOUSAND AND THREE HUNDRED DAYS; then (i.e., after that) shall the SANCTUARY BE CLEANSED."

Verse 26 says, "the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true." The time when the sanctuary will be cleansed is the Day of the Second Advent, Nisan 1. Eze. 45:18 says, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and CLEANSE THE SANCTUARY." This is Nisan for verse 21 mentions "In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover."

We know that the Second Advent is on this Nisan 1, the first day of the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Year. Eze. 29:17 sets the day, "in the first month, in the first day of the month." Then verse 21 says, " In that day will I cause the horn (king) of the house of Israel (Christ) to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth (the Word, the Logos) in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD." This agrees with Hos. 6:3 that says the Lord will come as the former and latter rain. The First Advent was as the former rain on Tishri 1. The Second Advent is as the latter rain on Nisan 1.

There are 7 Jewish months between the Day of God's Wrath and the Second Advent. Eze. 39:12,13 says, " And SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified" (the Second Advent, when he returns in glory).

If the Second Advent is on Nisan 1, 5768 (Apr. 6, 2008), seven months prior to that is Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007), because 5768 is a Jewish Leap Year with the 13th month.

2300 days before Tishri 1, 5768, counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning, is the Feast of Weeks, Sivan 6, 5761 (May 28, 2001). This would be a perfect time for the 70th week of Daniel to begin.

If the Final Status Peace Agreement is signed as planned Sept. 13, 2000, it seems reasonable that it could be confirmed (Dan. 9:27) by the Beast and False Prophet on the Feast of Weeks in 2001.

>> Isaiah 57:15 tells us God inhabits eternity and Eternity is completely outside the realm of both the first and second heavens of Genesis 1.

Eternity has to do with endless time, not place.

Now you tell me what you think the 2300 days of Dan. 8:14 applies to. Let's put our heads together. Maybe there is more to know about this 2300 days. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Rapture & the Church of Smyrna
How bout this scenario-

1) Rapture on anniversary of Christ's ascension into Heaven. The head, (Christ), was first, then the body, (Church).

2) Immediately after the Rapture, the 144,000 Jews see that Jesus is their Messiah and begin praying to the LORD. (Similar to the disciples after Christ's ascension, but before the day of Pentecost.)

3) 10 days later, on Pentecost, the 144,000 Jews are filled with the Holy Spirit and sealed.(Similar to the Holy Spirit descending upon the disciples on Pentecost. The 10 day gap would fit for the Genesis 24:55 passage, "stay with us 10 days" and the Revelation 2:10 passage, "ye shall have tribulation 10 days".)

Could the Church of Smyrna be this Jewish church? It is the only one that mentions the Jews, of the "Seven Churches".

3a) Also on Pentecost, the two prophets from God descend, filled with the Holy Spirit, they begin preaching the gospel of the Kingdom.

What do you think? Thanks ahead of time. Enjoy your site

My reply

Good try, but I don't think it fits exactly. It pays to think of everything though. Sometimes things will suddenly jell when we explore the various possibilities.

The problem here would be that the 144,000 are sealed "after these things" (Rev. 7:1) that happen when the 6th seal is opened (Rev. 6:12), when "the great day of his wrath is come" (Rev. 6:17). I think that is the 2300th day of the Tribulation.

> > Could the Church of Smyrna be this Jewish church?

In the church, there is neither Jew nor Gentile. We are all of the same body, i.e., in the Body of Christ. However, this could so easily happen in Israel. They have been trying to pass a law under which anyone that tried to convert a Jew to another religion could be put in prison.

> > on Pentecost, the two prophets from God descend, filled with the Holy Spirit, they begin preaching the gospel of the Kingdom

I do think that Moses and Elijah will start their ministry on Pentecost. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Schrist will not judge
what did Christ mean when he said i come not to judge the world?

My reply

Jesus did not come at the First Advent to judge. Then, he said, "if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I CAME (past tense) not to judge the world, but to save the world" (Jn. 12:47). This has nothing to do with a future judgment. Let's see what the scriptures indicate about two judgments, the Judgment Seat of Christ in Heaven and the Judgment of the Nations on Earth. The first is before the Second Advent, the second is after it.


I think the Judgment Seat of Christ is on the Feast of Trumpets, on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. In Heaven, Christ is crowned before he is seated as judge.

Psa. 9:7,8 says, "But the LORD (YHVH) shall endure for ever: he (YHVH of hosts, the Redeemer, Christ, Isa. 44:6) HATH PREPARED HIS THRONE FOR JUDGMENT. AND HE SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness."

Christ is crowned with his golden crown in Heaven 7 months before he returns to Earth. (Eze. 39:12). The Judgment Seat of Christ is in Heaven. The Judgment of the Nations is on Earth. I think the latter is at the end of the 2520 days of the Seventieth Week of Daniel.

Psa. 96:13 says, "the LORD (YHVH): for he COMETH (Second Advent), for HE COMETH TO JUDGE THE EARTH (the Judgment of the Nations): he shall JUDGE THE WORLD with righteousness, and the people with his truth. Psa. 98:9 is similar. It says, "Before the LORD (YHVH); for HE COMETH TO JUDGE THE EARTH: with righteousness shall he JUDGE THE WORLD, and the people with equity."

Acts 17:31 says, "Because HE HATH APPOINTED A DAY, in the which HE WILL JUDGE THE WORLD in righteousness BY THAT MAN WHOM HE HATH ORDAINED (Christ); whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that HE HATH RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD." Agape

Incoming email

Re: Biometrics/Microsoft
This website looks like another leap toward the mark of the beast. Microsoft has acquired a software company to allow for scanning of physical characteristics. Future Windows products will allow this function to take place. Since Windows-based software is so common in today's computing, it seems to me that people will be more easily deceived and willingly accept this new easy way to use their computer. It is very exciting to watch these endtimes events and see how things are falling into place just as the Holy Bible predicts. Come Lord Jesus.

My reply

Thanks. I think it is an exciting time to live in too. Agape

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