Pro and Con 517

Posted 5-27-00

Incoming email

From: Steve Shackleton
My heart really was touched by the Hindu girl in Malaysia that wrote to you seeking the truth about Jesus and the wanting to understand the word of God and the saving grace that he offers to all that will call upon his name. I would like to help her and others like her that do not have a Bible to call their own.

If she has access to your web site she has access to the Bible. I hope you will forward these links to her so she can read the Bible via the internet There are some marvelous web sites that are available to anyone seeking God's word. Here are a few

http://www.biblestudytools.net/
This site offers multiple translations of the Bible, Bible tools such as concordances, interlinear helps, commentaries, dictionaries, lexicons, parallel Bible and more.

http://bible.gospelcom.net/
Multiple versions which can be read in a number of different languages

http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?version=KJV&passage=all The King James Bible online

http://khouse.org/blueletter/
The Blue Letter Bible offers the following. A Phrase / Multi-word Search, 8 Bible trnations/Versions for any verse, Expanded Concordance Table, with Tenses/Stems, Septuagint Greek for the Old Testament, Many more text commentaries! More Coming!, Thousands of additional Audio Bible Studies, Much faster computer. Enhanced access to Bible Dictionaries Plus our new Devotionals!

The word of God ia available to all who seek it. These sites have helped me in my study of God's word and I hope they will help others too. The word gives life. Please forward these links to her for me so she can have life and have it more abundantly.
In Christ's Service

My reply

Thank you so much. These sound interesting to me also. Here is what I wrote to the Hindi girl:

A friend just sent me an email with links in it where you can go on the Internet and read the Bible. I copied it below. Please start with the New Testament.

I also am enclosing an email from a college-age Christian boy from India, plus my reply to him. He could probably help you since he understands what it is like to be a Hindi girl better than I could. In Christ's abundant love

Incoming email

Re: July 7, 2000 Rapture? / Food for Thought
The 1st & 8th page of P&C 507 were quite mind provoking. Hallelujah! All of us who are keeping watch in obedience to Matthew 24:42 and His imminent return should be prepared to answer the door the next few months. I've been personally impressed that the key to being prepared is showing the fruit of the Spirit (Galations 5:22-23) in our lives as opposed to just the gifts of the Spirit, (I Corinthians 12:1-30). Looks like I Corinthians 15:35-58 could be fulfilled soon.

Points to Ponder:
The Christian Ascension Day is always on a Thursday, the next being officially June 1, 2000. The Christian Pentecost is the day after the Jewish Pentecost this year (Sivan 6&7), 10 days later on June 11, 2000. The 33rd anniversary for the Jew of the recapture of Jerusalem will be our June 2, 2000. Jesus was 33 years old when he ascended into Heaven. If the Bride of Christ ascended into Heaven on the 33rd anniversary this could point the Jew to the Messiah, Yeshua. It would still be Ascension Day in America at the start of the 33rd anniversary in Jerusalem at sundown on June 1st. (If the Bride ascends after the anniversary, both the Bride and Christ will still be the same age at ascension.)

I have wondered whether the 7 good years followed by the 7 bad years which parallel Joseph, but possibly with the Beast taking the role of Joseph, started Tishra 1, in 1991 or 1993 and will end Tishra 1, 2005 or 2007. We've talked about the Biblical basis for building a case for each. I have not seen the following presented by anyone else and thought you would appreciate it. I know you have brought out 490 years in your 400's parallel but this goes deeper. Chuck Missler in his book "Cosmic Codes", page 241, on the chapter entitled, "The 70 Sevens" shows a table based on Bullinger's published in 1894. On this table he outlines the four 70 sevens that Israel had as a nation excluding the years of servitude or domination by others.

From Abraham to the Exodus minus Ishmael is 490 years. From the Exodus to the Temple minus the Servitudes in Judges is 490 years. And then from the Temple to the Edict of Artaxerxes minus the Babylonian captivity is 490 years. And then Daniels 70 sevens make up the last 490, however you want to cut it. This ties back to Jesus saying in Matthew 18:21,22. "Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Till seven times? "Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven." There appears to be a much deeper meaning and that 490 times represent 490 years that God forgave the nation of Israel and then multiplied this by four. Four in the Bible has been shown to apply to man in the sense of flesh in the unsaved state such as amplified in the book "Arithmetic of God".

Anyway, God being a just God would forgive the Church the same number of total years as Israel. Likewise one should see distinct breakpoints every 490 years in the Church to further confirm the point. Of course the most profound breakpoint for the Gentile Church was when Martin Luther tacked his 95 theses on the Wittenburg church door in 1517 which as you know adding 490 to yields 2007. There is no way I can come up with as significant of an event in 1515 to reach 2005. I haven't researched it out enough to know what of significance happened around 1027 but P&C 507 mentions Emporer Justinian officially recognizing the Church of Rome in AD 538 which would indeed seem to be another breakpoint event. My calculations show AD 537 as the next possible breakpoint but I can with not knowing when in the year of 538 along with events leading up to the official recognition happening the previous year, see confirmation of 2 of the 4 490 year periods pretty clearly. Of course 537 - 490 is 47 AD which I do not know what happened in the Church but this could be when the Gospel was given to the Gentiles or we could have gaps like in the Jewish record of 4 490 year periods. Shalom!

Also, per P&C 512, page 6, Jim Bramlett's note that the beginning of the Jewish year would be technically October 9, 1999. This is 28 days later than the September 11, 1999 on the Jewish calendar. Following the same logic then Sivan 6, Pentecost would occur 28 days later on our July 7, 2000. Going back 10 days gives June 27, 2000, the day after the global interfaith agreement is supposed to be signed. "And you shall have persecution 10 days." (Rev. 2:10). I think you can appreciate the implications. Gives me goosebumps and the shivers at the same time! Shades of Esther. Maranatha!

My reply

Gal. 5:22-26 is great. It's like my personal creed I go by. It says, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another."

> > Looks like I Corinthians 15:35-58 could be fulfilled soon.

That covers from the resurrection at the first Rapture to the resurrection at the "last trump," the last Rapture. It is interesting that right after that, Paul said, "Now concerning the COLLECTION for the saints...But I will tarry at Ephesus (the first of the 7 churches of Rev. 2,3) UNTIL PENTECOST. For a GREAT DOOR and effectual is OPENED TO ME, and there are many adversaries" (I Cor. 16:1,8,9). Is this a clue that the door of Heaven will literally be opened to Paul on Pentecost? Does this prefigure the collection of the saints? God hasn't missed a trick. Clues are all over the place.

> > 33rd anniversary for the Jew of the recapture of Jerusalem will be our June 2, 2000

Yes, because it is Iyar 28 on the Jewish Calendar.

> > (If the Bride ascends after the anniversary, both the Bride and Christ will still be the same age at ascension.)

Thank you. That's an interesting point. We have "new Jerusalem" written on us (Rev. 3:12). I think that at death, we become as if at about that age, i.e., in the prime of life. Job 23:25 says, "His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth." As I awoke in her house on the morning of her funeral, I heard my mother say, "Marilyn, there's no way I'm 84 years old."

> > From Abraham to the Exodus minus Ishmael is 490 years

Let's see. Shall we assume that he means Abraham's birth and Ishmael's casting out? The Exodus in 2513 AH less 2008 AH, when Abram was born, is 505 years. Ishmael was cast out when 13. (505 - 13 = 492). Close, if that is what he means.

> > Anyway, God being a just God would forgive the Church the same number of total years as Israel

490 x 4 = 1960. 1960 + 30 = 1990. We are 10 years beyond that now. Hmmm.

> > Following the same logic then Sivan 6, Pentecost would occur 28 days later on our July 7, 2000.

One problem. I think Pentecost must be in the spring, not after summer begins June 20. Also, Mt. 24:32,33 says, "summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it (the Kingdom of God, Lu. 21:31, i.e., the Rapture) is near, even at the doors" (symbol of the Raptures). Agape

Incoming email

New cradle of civilization found:
http://www.vny.com/cf/News/upidetail.cfm?QID=88130

My reply

Thanks. The article is interesting. Here is a snip:
---
Historians have long held that civilization grew in Mesopotamia - in cities like Ur and Uruk in southern Iraq -- and spread but the new findings indicate civilization developed independently at Tell Hamoukar.

McGuire Gibson, a professor at the U of C's Oriental Institute and co-director of the joint expedition with the Syrian Directorate General of Antiquities, said the find indicates civilization began about 6,000 years ago, earlier than the 3500 to 3100 B.C. usually cited.

The findings were presented this week at the International Conference on Archeology of the Ancient Near East in Copenhagen.

"We need to reconsider our ideas about the beginnings of civilization, pushing the time further back," Gibson said. "This would mean that the development of kingdoms or early states occurred before writing was invented and before the appearance of several other criteria that we think of as marking civilization."

Tell Hamoukar covered about 500 acres, the size of some of the largest of the ancient Middle East cities although Gibson concedes the entire area was likely not inhabited at the same time during the area's first occupation between 4000 and 3700 B.C....

Unlike Ur and Uruk, Tell Hamoukar did not sit along a river, but rather along an established caravan route running through the Tigris and Euphrates river regions to the Mediterranean. ---
***From Marilyn: Given enough time, archeology finally seems to catch up with the Bible. Civilization did begin about 6000 years ago--I think 6042 years ago. It seems that Adam was in the Garden 40 years, that man's test being mortal and knowing both good and evil started after Adam was judged and cast out, and that we have come 2 more years since the 6000th year of that test ran out in 1998.

Writing existed at least from Enoch's time, and probably from Adam's day. The names of the animals needed to be recorded so they would not be forgotten. Enoch, Seth, and probably Adam gave us the Zodiac, God's picture book in the stars. God named the stars, but man had to record those names for posterity.

Incoming email

Re: URI and UNESCO
Marilyn, I wanted to write to you and tell you how much I appreciate your website and your witness. I have been reading your site for about 6 months and I have learned a great deal through your writings, and I appreciate the fact that you use scripture to support your writings. We are told not to be tossed back and forth and blown here and there by every wind of teaching. (Eph 4:14) But instead we are told to test the spirits to see if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1) I have been studying prophecy and the writings of several different individuals for the last year and coming back to the word to test what I have read. I admit that while I don't agree or completely understand everything you teach, I always find it difficult to argue with the scripture you reference.

The thing that I appreciate most is your focus on spreading the gospel. You do not appear to be (or at least not since I have been following your site) trying to glorify Marilyn. Instead, you seem to be focused on proclaiming the name of Jesus and leading people to salvation and repentance. I have noted several incoming e-mails from those who needed the gospel and you gave it to them in simple terms. Hallelujah!!!! I also appreciate your humility. You always give the glory to God as you should. Believe me, He is using this site to work on the hearts of His children and to open the eyes of the lost! Keep pointing the praise to Him, and I am sure He will keep using you in a mighty way.

I know it sounds like I am glorifying you, but I am only glorifying God who is using you. God bless you and keep you!

I was writing to see if you noticed that the URI has been adopted as a partner with the UN. URI and UNESCO have created the Manifesto 2000 which proclaims "peace and nonviolence." Reminds me of 1Thess 5:3 "while people are saying "peace and safety," destruction will come upon them as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape." June 26 promises to be an interesting day in history - I hope we are not here to see it! God Bless!

My reply

Thank you. I'm glad you enjoy my Web site.

> > The thing that I appreciate most is your focus on spreading the gospel. You do not appear to be (or at least not since I have been following your site) trying to glorify Marilyn

That's for sure. I could care less about fame. That is no goal of mine. In fact, I'd rather not be famous. I just want to do the Lord's will. The most I would like is to hear well done, good and faithful servant in the end.

> > I was writing to see if you noticed that the URI has been adopted as a partner with the UN. URI and UNESCO have created the Manifesto 2000

I didn't know UNESCO was publicly involved. Thanks for this information. Do you have a URL I should visit? The last one someone sent me was under construction by the time I got there. Agape

His reply

Re: UN charter for global democracy
This will be rolled out in September and I believe is what was referred to by the author of the previous post I sent you. Note the remarkable similarity with the UR charter. I understand these 2 documents were written by people sharing the same building in San Francisco.

Summary and commentary about the upcoming Global Democracy can be found at:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_lamb/19991001_xchla_the_charte.shtml

Incoming email

Re: The Things That Are
I have just read P&C 515 from which I gleaned two gems. In one place you state: "We are not to believe things we hear without searching the Bible to see if these things are so. We go by the Bible, no matter what we hear from any other source. Agape." I agree, 100 percent but, earlier, in the same P&C your wrote:

"Rev. 1:19 says, "Write the things which thou hast seen (the Preview of the Rapture in chapter 1), and the things which are (when the Rapture is at hand), and the things which shall be hereafter" ("hereafter" the Rapture, 4:1)."

In view of the first statement, please tell me, Dear Lady, "What is your Biblical basis for the following?

"the things which thou has seen" is a preview of the rapture; "the things which are" relates to things that occur when the Rapture is at hand; "the things which shall be hereafter" refer to "hereafter" the rapture,4:1".

Revelation 4:1 may preview what will happen in the rapture but John was not 'raptured', he was caught up in the spirit, only!

I have been at a loss to understand how you, with your very great, in-depth, knowledge of the Bible, could apply the prophecies in the Revelation of Jesus Christ in the way you are doing but now, I think I do. You are so right about so many things relative to the truth of the word andits application to the Christian life and so wrong about the end times andnow I think I know why. Praise the Lord!

Please, Marilyn, as a favor to me, to your readers and to yourself, consider your understanding of the Revelation of Jesus Christ in the LITERAL light of Revelation 1:19.

"Things thou has seen" are exactly that, the things John saw in the beginning of Chapter 1. (The 'things that shall shortly come to pass' are ALL the things John will be shown. They are not limited to the rapture.)"The things which are", are the things that were at the time he had the visions and applies to EACH OF THE SEPARATE VISIONS that were given to him. "The things that shall be hereafter", are the things that will happen after the "things which are", IN EACH OF THOSE VISIONS.

If you apply the above to the Revelation of Jesus Christ it all falls into place and many other prophetic scriptures, that are not now fully understood, become crystal clear. Try it! You'll like it! God Bless you.

My reply

> > The 'things that shall shortly come to pass' are ALL the things John will be shown. They are not limited to the rapture

What limits them to when the Rapture is "at hand" is Rev. 4:1's "Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be HEREAFTER"--i.e., hereafter the Rapture. In my eyes, the "things which are" in Rev. 1:19 do not apply to "EACH OF THE SEPARATE VISIONS."

I used to accept the usual interpretation of Rev. 1:19, That the things past are the Patmos vision, the things present are the churches, and the things future are the events after the Rapture. Finally, I saw that even this interpretation is a little skewed. It isn't like John STARTED writing at verse 19, he was writing from the beginning. Christ was giving him the script of this dramatic production, and like our movies, Christ began with a Preview of coming attractions. Verse 3 mentions the "things which ARE WRITTEN." In verse 11, he was told "What thou seest, WRITE in a book." He obeyed and wrote the things he saw in Heaven in the Preview of the Rapture, Christ in glory, the 7 churches around him, and the 7 star performers still in his right hand, having just been caught up. Only after he recorded this Preview of the Rapture, was he was AGAIN told, in v. 19, to WRITE.

This script is titled "The Revelation of Jesus Christ." When he is revealed to us is at the Rapture. The script is bookended with statements in the first and last chapters telling us that the setting of this miracle play is the time when the Rapture is "at hand." Rev. 1:3 says, "for the TIME is at hand." Rev. 22:10 says, "for the TIME is at hand." Jesus signs off with "Surely I come quickly." I think the "at hand" spans the 10 days between the anniversary of Jesus' Ascension Day and Pentecost. Therefore, it seems like Jesus would come ten days after Ascension Day. That is probably why the church in Smyrna is told "ye shall have tribulation ten days" (2:10). Their trials would be cut short at the Rapture, just 10 days away.

In 1:19, "the things which thou HAST SEEN" are the Preview that just ran. John became in the spirit on the Lord's day and was teleported to Heaven. There, he saw Christ in all his glory. His hair was as white as snow, his eyes as a flame of fire, and "his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength" (1:13-16). He heard Jesus say, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning (YHVH, king of Israel) and the ending (YHVH of hosts, Isa. 44:6), saith the Lord, which is (at the Rapture), and which was (at the First Advent), and which is to come (at the Second Advent), the ALMIGHTY."

I think the "things which ARE," cover the 10-day period between Ascension Day and Pentecost. The Preview of the Rapture is carried into the messages to the 7 churches that "ARE." To Ephesus, Christ is "he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks" (2:1). To Smyrna, he is "the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive." To Pergamos, he is "he which hath the sharp sword with two edges." This is because the non-overcomers are to be cut off. To Thyatira, he is "the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass." To Sardis, he is "he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars." To Philadelphia, he is "he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David." To Laodicea, he is "the Amen, the faithful and true witness."

The "things which shall be HEREAFTER" are the things "HEREAFTER" the Rapture in 4:1. At that point in this miracle play, John was caused to act out the Rapture. The door in Heaven opened, and Christ said, "Come up hither." Once in Heaven, John was one of the 24 elders, crowned and seated on thrones. He saw the saints "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" there singing the "new song" (5:9).

We know that when Christ says, "Come up hither," we will ascend, because in the middle of the Tribulation, Moses and Elijah hear "Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven" (11:12). The Come up hither is the command. The ascension is the reaction to the command. Agape

Incoming email

Your pros and cons are wonderful always. I just read this the other day and it reminded me of something you said on a recent P&C concerning "those that recline at table". I read in a book by Edward Chumney called "The Seven Festivals Of The Messiah" concerning Passover(Pesach) that "Kings traditionally reclined at their meals, and so celebrants reclined during portions of the Passover Seder. The beleivers in Yeshua are Kings and Priests before G-d (Revelations 1:6; 5:10).

That makes what you said even more relevant I think.

I am getting really excited now with the things that are happening in Israel and wonder what the 10 day warning might be on Ascension Day. Something powerful to alert even the unwise virgins I am sure. Bless you Marilyn and Ed. I was so happy to hear that you get more sleep now that you have your new computer. I have an applemac also and I think it is wonderful. So much easier than my last pc. I am so pleased you are getting more sleep these days. Prayers answered again. Much love in YAHshua. Your sister (in Christ)

My reply

Thanks. I had not thought of that connection to the reclining at table. The apostles are 12 of the elders. They played that out. I keep saying it, but it hits me again and again. God didn't miss a trick. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Gospel Preached to All Nations...Then the End Will Come
Praise the Lord! Hope you're having a good week. Thanks for taking time to give personal insight into my questions. It's wonderful to witness your hunger and thirst for truth of His word on your Web site.

My latest question is related to Matthew 24:14 - "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

Despite all the overwhelming evidence in His word about the timing of His coming, I'm still trying to grasp the extent of what the above verse is saying. Today, there are still many, many people groups around the world who have never heard the name of Jesus spoken or His word given to them. In order for His coming to be so soon, I can only think of the following reasons why He would be able to fulfill this verse:

1. The ancestors of these people groups heard the gospel of Jesus Christ in ages past and rejected it at that time.
2. God will fulfill this scripture during the seven years of the tribulation through a miraculous working of the Holy Spirit and/or the tribulation saints.
3. God's witness is present everywhere -- even in nature and that is His testimony to the unreached people of the world through His children.

From what you have studied, has this scripture been fulfilled already? Any insight you could provide would be helpful. Thank you. Your Brother in Jesus

My reply

First, we need to determine what period "THE END" represents here. It is one particular SEGMENT of time. This segment has a beginning and an end of its own. Before we apply Mt. 24:14 to the time before the Rapture, we should at least figure out when this particular time called "THE END" begins.

Mt. 14-16 says, " And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall THE END come. WHEN ye therefore shall see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea FLEE into the mountains."

The "abomination of desolation" is placed at the Temple Mid-Trib. That is when this space called "THE END," or the "GREAT TRIBULATION" (Rev. 7:14), begins. It is when Israel flees to the wilderness. The 1260 days of Rev. 12:6 are "THE END" that is to be shortened. Mt. 24:22-24 says, "except THOSE DAYS (when Israel flees) should be SHORTENED, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's (the Tribulation saints') sake THOSE DAYS SHALL BE SHORTENED. Then (from Mid-Trib) if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets." The False Prophet rules during the "GREAT TRIBULATION."

Therefore, the gospel will be preached in all the world by Mid-Trib. We are close now. There has been a big push to evangelize the world by 2000. Moses and Elijah will prophesy during the first half of the Tribulation. The gospel will be preached in all the world by the end of their 1260-day ministry. Agape

Incoming email

Re: The Two Men in White
I am, Jill Ann Williams, who had the death experience some years ago.

As I lay on the church meeting room floor, one of the ladies of the church was on her knees beside me praying. I was 'out of my body' watching. The ambulance man told her, "There's no use praying now, she's gone." Then I was out of the room. I wasn't aware of the 2 men in white until we were coming in from out of the darkness to the tawny gold glory type setting. We stopped at kind of a gate/wall. Immediately the Heavenly Father appeared. One of the men spoke to the Heavenly Father in a language I didn't understand. And the Heavenly Father replied in a language I didn't understand. Then one of the men told the Heavenly Father something about myself, in English. That's when the Heavenly Father said, "Not yet". Then I said in English, "I want to come in". The Heavenly Father looked at the two men and we departed. The two men were very obedient to the Heavenly Father. I am saying all this because one of the men said nothing. In 'light' of the current Elijah/Moses discussion- perhaps the man in white who said nothing was, indeed Moses!

We came back through darkness and the next thing I knew was that I was being taken to a Jewish Hospital. I cannot forget the scene of the circle of Jewish doctors around my bed..all stroking my face with the palm of their hands. I wondered why. When I came home that night and looked into the mirror I understood. There was the dazzling light glowing from my face. The next day, this light was gone.

My reply

Thanks for filling in more details. Since the apostles knew that the two men that appeared talking with Christ were Moses and Elijah at the Transfiguration, maybe the two with you were guardian angels. Otherwise, you might have known who they were. Agape

   Pro and Con 518   Or Return   Home


Contact me for more information at: mjagee@pe.net

Send me e-mail now

8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110


© 1996-2000, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 5-27-00