Pro and Con 53, Uploaded 1-21-98

Incoming Email

I hope that you are fully recovered from your bout with pneumonia. In my humble way I have kept you in my prayers and hoped that my unworthy words were like a trustworthy envoy unto the ears of the L-rd. (Proverbs 13:17 "A wicked messenger falls into trouble, but a trustworthy envoy brings healing.").

At times the L-rd shows me somethings that would perhaps be prudent to pass along. If you think the attached is worthwhile, plese feel free to use it at your web site: Re; the imminent appearance of the False Prophet / Beast. If evil holds to its counterfeiting/mimmicing of scripture the false prophet will (like Yochannan the Immerser) preceed the beast by about 6 months: I think Ad- nai has given a sign to believers {in this case a warning sign (Rev. 12:12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short." )}

It may be more than just a passing curiousity (as believers we know that there is no such thing as coincidence) regarding the first large mammal to be cloned and dramatically publicized: Dolly a sheep....

The conclusion seems inescapable: the cloning of a lamb represents the impending appearance (evil) of the false lamb (or false prophet)!!!

My reply

...I had not thought of the cloning of a lamb as a sign, but it sure makes sense.

> If evil holds to its counterfeiting/mimmicing of scripture the false prophet will
> (like Yochannan the Immerser) preceed the beast by about 6 months

That is possible. However, I also remember that the "fourth year of Jehoiakim...king of Judah ...was the first year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon" (Jer. 25;1). Since the "secrets of wisdom...are double to that which is" (Job 11:6), this is also a possibility. The False Prophet may appear on the world scene right after the Rapture and help put the Beast in Office. Then after the Beast's 3 1/2 year reign, the False Prophet will take over as head of both the world government and world church.

> The conclusion seems inescapable: the cloning of a lamb represents the
> impending appearance (evil) of the false lamb (or false prophet)!!!

If the appearance of the False Prophet is impending, it might happen right after the Rapture, the next event on the agenda.

2 Thess. 2:7,8 (NIV) says, "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way (at the time of the Rapture). And then the lawless one will be revealed."

I think there is a good chance that the False Prophet, the one who will be Satan indwelt the last half of the Tribulation, will appear prominent on the world scene right after the Rapture.

Incoming Email

Yesterday a fellow posted an interesting obervation on the Five Doves Web site about 5/31, 1998.

He pointed out that 5 + 31 + 19 + 98 = 153, the number of fish in the boat, presumably referring to the redeemed! That seems significant.

However, we must be cautious, as last year we had close to 100 similar "confirmations" that the rapture would be May 14, 1997, exactly "seven weeks" after Israel's birth in 1948.

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Looking at your Web site http://www.kiwi.net/~mjagee/chron.html I disagree with your establishment of the begining of the 430 year key Bible Chronology time from Abraham to the Exodus at Abraham's 75th year. I think the 430 years began at the completion of the Abrahamic covenant in Genisis 17 when Abraham was 99 years old. My logic from a paper I wrote entitled BIBLICAL PROPHECY TIMING BASED ON BIBLICAL CHRONOLOGY is as follows:

2. The beginning of the 430 years from the Covenant to the Exodus

In establishing the beginning of the 430 years from the covenant to the Exodus (and the giving of the Law) all of the following verses must be true:

Exodus 12:40 & 41 Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years. And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, even the selfsame day it came to pass, that all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt.

Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Romans 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:

Of all the passages of God's promises to Abraham only two include reference to a covenant. They are:

Genesis 15: 17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

18. In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

And Genesis 17: 7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

The covenant began in chapter 15 with God giving his sign of the covenant by appearing as "a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces". The same covenant was completed in chapter 17 when Abraham completed his sign of the covenant, which was circumcision.

Also Abraham's age was given as 99 years in chapter 17 but not given in chapter 15. This shows Gods care to include all the necessary information to provide a continuous chronology from Adam to Christ.

I would appreciate your comments on the above.

My reply

As I wrote before, I think all fulfillment of prophecy was preplanned by God. Major events were set and the feasts were placed at those times.

God promised Abraham "when as yet he had NO CHILD." He already had a child when he was 99. That can't be when the promise was given.

Acts 7:4,5 helps us understand this correctly. It says, "Then came he out of the land of the Chaldeans, and dwelt in Charan (Haran): and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell. And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet HE PROMISED that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, WHEN AS YET HE HAD NO CHILD."

Abraham was given the promise when he had no child. Ishmael was born when Abraham was 86, thirteen years before the Lord told him he would have a son by Sarah. Therefore Abraham was given the promise prior to his 86th year.

Genesis 12:1,2,4 show that this promise was given to Abraham when he was 75. It says, "NOW the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house (in Haran), unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing...So Abram departed...and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran....and into the land of Canaan they came."

This makes Galatians 3:17 easier to understand: "And this I say, that the covenant (the Abrahamic Covenant), that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law (given at the time of the Exodus), which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance (of the land) be of the law, it is no more of promise, but God gave it (the land) to Abraham by promise."

Incoming Email

The concept that the future is preplanned by God and therefore a static reality to Him is a purely pagan concept.

Remember, the Bible gives us a fixed time period or distance between the Abomination in the holy place that makes desolate and the End; namely, 1260 days, 42 months, or 3.5 years (of 360 days). I'm sure you are aware of the references in Daniel and Revelation, read in the light of Christ's words in Matt. 24. Now, Jesus Himself said that the start of this fixed period of 1260 days is the appearance of the Abomiation-that-makes-desolate in the holy place. Of this pivotal starting point Jesus said to His disciples (among whom I hope you are truly counted) that they were to pray that it did not happen on the Sabbath or in winter. In other words - which DAY of the week, and which SEASON of the year would be altered according to the prayers of God's people! Therefore the date of the end is not simply hidden, or specially revealed to the spiritual, or the learned elite - it is NOT set. The apostle Peter admonishes us to persevere in obedience and thereby HASTEN the day of God.

Nothing could be clearer! Anyone therefore who in any way implies that an approaching date is THE moment is a false shepherd to God's people and is causing a distraction from the focussed calling of the Spirit to all who hear to come and drink from the water of life!

My reply

> The concept that the future is preplanned by God and therefore a static reality to Him is
> a purely pagan concept.

That does not matter one whit. Satan counterfeits the truth to confuse mankind.

> Bible gives us a fixed time period or distance between the
> Abomination in the holy place that makes desolate and the End; namely,
> 1260 days, 42 months, or 3.5 years (of 360 days).

It also gives us 1260 preceding days in which the two witnesses prophesy. I think they begin on the Feast of Weeks that begins the Seventieth Week of Daniel. The Seventieth Week is 2520 days (1260 + 1260). It ends on the Feast of Unleavened Bread when dominion is taken away from Satan. It cannot vary in the middle by even one day.

The shortened Tribulation is 2300 days (Dan. 8:14). It runs from the Feast of Weeks in 2001 to the Feast of Trumpets in 2007, counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning. It cannot be slid to any other period of time in the years we have left of the 40 allotted to us since the Sign of the End of the Age, the Six-Day War of 1967, when Israel grew leaves (Sinai, West Bank, Sinai, and Gaza Strip). These 2300 days cannot be expanded or contracted by even one day, either.

> His disciples (among whom I hope you are truly counted)

I am. My faith in Christ is absolutely unshakable. I know who he is. He is the Almighty himself (Rev. 1:8). "God was in Christ, reeconciling the world unto himself" (II Cor. 5:19).

> they were to pray that it did not happen on the Sabbath or in winter.
> In other words - which DAY of the week, and which SEASON of the year would be
> altered according to the prayers of God's people!

God has foreknowledge. He knew that these prayers would be said, and arranged the second 1260 days so that they neither start on the Sabbath nor in winter.

> the date of the end is not simply hidden, or specially
> revealed to the spiritual, or the learned elite - it is NOT set.

Be careful that you are not disputing God.

Isa. 46:9,10 says, "I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end FROM THE BEGINNING, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure."

In Mark 13:23, Jesus said, "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you ALL THINGS."


I John 2:18,20 says, "it is the last time...ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know ALL THINGS."

"the wise shall understand" (Dan. 12:10).

> apostle Peter admonishes us to persevere in obedience and thereby HASTEN
> the day of God.

II Peter 3:12 says, "Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God." The word translated "hasting" is "speudo," which also means to await eagerly.

> Anyone therefore who in any way implies that
> an approaching date is THE moment is a false shepherd

If I am right, does this make you a false shepherd?

I saw a rectangle of light on Jer. 50:2. It said to publish and conceal not. Would you have me disobey?

> causing a distraction from the focussed calling of the Spirit to
> all who hear to come and drink from the water of life!

How? I keep urging people to be filled with the Holy Spirit.

Incoming Email

I see your page, and your readers, are as wacky as ever concerning Scripture interpretation. Let me throw a few things at you and them that will undoubtably seem to be "foolishness".

The Rapture: when we "rightly divide the Word of truth", by seeing the spirit of the word that "gives life" (2 Corinthians 3) rather than the letter of the word "that kills" (same verse), then we have been "caught up in the air" with Christ and all the saints.

The "new heaven and new earth" is the spirit of the word, the new covenant. New Jerusalem is also the spirit of the word, see Galatians 4.The "end of the world" is when we become saved, that is when we start to see the spirit of the word rather than the letter. hat is the end of our time under the old covenant, and the end of our "old man".

The letter of the word is typified as "Satan and his angels". The spirit of the word is "Michael and his angels".The "lake of fire" is the new covenant, the spirit of the Word. Hell is the letter of the word, the law that condemns and separates us from God. Heaven is the spirit of the word.

All prophecy in the old testament was fulfilled in Christ, without exception. All prophecy is equally fulfilled in us when we see the spirit of the Word. Satan is our "old man", the "outward man" in each of us that must "perish" so that the inward man may be renewed "day by day" (2 Corinthians 4).

God is described by Ezekial as a "wheel within a wheel" because the word has the spirit hidden within the letter. The outer wheel is the letter of the Word, the physical, visible and temporal objects and people God uses to convey spiritual truths in the scriptures. The inner wheel is the spiritual truths these types and figures convey. Paul calls the outer wheel "shadows" in Hebrews 10:1 and "allegories" in Galatians 4.

The "man of sin" is christ, who was "made sin for us". That is why he had to die on the cross, because he was a shadow of the "old man" in us, the natural man that sees only the letter of the word. Our "old man" is also the "man of sin", which is why we must be "crucified with Christ".Christ was a type of the Word - his flesh body, which anyone could see shadowed the letter of the word, which any one can see and understand. But his spirit was the "Spirit of God", the Spirit of Truth, typifying the spirit of the word, the "hidden wisdom". Only the spiritual man, the "new man", can see the "hidden wisdom", as only believers saw Christ after the resurrection.

"Mystery Babylon" is the letter of the Word. The Word is a mystery to the natural man, but Christ said it had been given to his disciples to "know the mystery".

The great tribulation was the time from the fall in Adam to the resurrection of Christ, the second Adam. This was the time the body of christ was under the curse of god and no salvation was available. More spiritually, this period represents each believer's time under the law, before we are saved, when we can see only the letter of the word vice the spirit. When we start to see the light of Scripture, then we are "brought out of great tribulation" and are robes are "made white in the blood of the Lamb", as in Revelation 6.

There is so much more you have yet to see. I hope that after Pentecost 98 rolls around and you are still here, the Lord will begin to take the veil off of your heart and show you the spirit of the wird which gives life, vice the letter of the word which is "killing" you and your readers.

My reply

I am reminded of what Paul said, "O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you" (Gal. 3:1). You decide in your mind what you want the Bible to say. Another does the same. Someone else does it too. Of course, no two imaginations make it mean the same thing. Thus the Bible means whatever anyone wants it to mean. You are spiritualizing it away. That is just what Satan would like us all to do. What spirit are you listening to, anyway?

One of these days, you will find out that it means exactly what it says.

> no salvation was available

There never was a time since Adam was on Earth that salvation has not been available. Old Testament saints were saved by believing the Messiah would come. Since the Crucifixion and Resurrection, we are saved by believing he came. All believers are saved by the grace of God.

> New Jerusalem is also the spirit of the word

See how neatly you got rid of Heaven?

> The letter of the word is typified as "Satan and his angels".

Sorry, but Satan and his angels are real.

Incoming Email

It's been nice talking to you on the rapture, or raptures, as you teach it.... I have decided to close out our discussion because it's too hard to make a point with someone who uses inference as you do.I can't do that because I have to see scripture that explains what it means as its read, or other scripture in other books that will explain it. Example - You say that doors, in Matt. 24:33, means that there are two raptures. It doesn't literally say that. Doors is plural, but. It could mean that, since Jesus was talking to several disciples directly, He would use doors. Indirectly, He was talking to thousands and thousands of people of later generations, thru his written word. But ,since since this would be using inference, I wouldn't teach this. There is no explaination for him using the plural form of door. If you have one, using scripture from the word of God, then I would like to see it. Example : Daniel's vision in chapter 7. The vision is told, and then , starting at verse 17, the vision is explained. Example : Jesus gives the parable of the sower, then in verse 37, he gives the meaning. Example : The beast, in Rev. 13:1 is explained in the book of Daniel. The second beast, in verse 11, is explained in Rev. 19:20, as the false prophet.

I pray that God will give you wisdom and knowledge in the study of his word. I pray that you will take a step out of where you are now and take a long hard look at what you are teaching. It may look good, but does it line up with the word of God ? We are responsible to the people we teach, and held accountable to God....

My reply

> You say that doors, in Matt. 24:33, means that there are two raptures. It
> doesn't literally say that. Doors is plural, but. It could mean that, since
> Jesus was talking to several disciples directly, He would use doors.

That is pretty weak. Jesus is coming to catch up the wise virgins. Mt. 24:33 says, "it is near, even at the DOORS." The Rapture is near, even at the doors.

Rev. 4:1 says, "behold, a DOOR was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither." One door in heaven opens at Rapture I. The other at Rapture II.

Mt. 7:13,14 says, "Enter ye in at the strait (narrow) GATE...Because strait is the gate (pule, leaf or wing of a folding entrance), and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

Luke 13:24f says, "Strive to enter in at the strait GATE: for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the DOOR, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the DOOR, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are."

The Laodiceans face a closed "DOOR" (Rev. 3:20).

Mt. 25:10 says, "And while they (the foolish virgins) went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the DOOR was shut."

As a type, Noah went into the Ark, and the Lord shut the door. Gen. 7:16 has "the LORD shut him in." And "as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be...Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Mt. 24:37,40).

Ezek. 44:5 says, "MARK WELL THE ENTERING IN OF THE HOUSE." "And the TEMPLE and the sanctuary had TWO DOORS" (Ezek. 41:23).

Rev. 3:12 says, Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the TEMPLE of my God, and he shall go no more out."

Maybe you just never looked into this before.

Incoming Email

MINISTER TO MEET WITH POPE (Arutz-7 News 1-14-98)
Deputy Prime Minister Moshe Katzav, acting in his capacity as Minister of Tourism, will meet with Pope John Paul II this coming Friday in the Vatican. The chief topic of their discussion will be the Israel's preparations to greet the expected million or more pilgrims who will visit in the year 2000, and cooperation with the Vatican in this matter. Katzav will also brief the Pope on the political situation and the Oslo process. Katzav will re-issue an Israeli government invitation to the Pope to visit Israel in 2000. Earlier this week, Tourism Ministry Director-General David Litvak and Senior Deputy Director-General Shabtai Shai presented Christian church leaders in Israel with a report on preparations for the Israel 2000 events.

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Updated 1-21-98