Pro and Con 530

Posted 6-8-00

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Re: the double crossbow (in the constellation VELA) Turn it sideways! (I did.) Looks like the double anchor, symbol of Hope!

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I'm having trouble with the 1st seal. Specifically, who does it represent? Revelation 6:1,2: "I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

White usually means free of sin, doesn't it? And a crown was given to him - doesn't that mean that this entity "overcame", and is being rewarded? If so - then the 1st seal is one of the "good guys". Can you shed any light on this?

Secondly, it's interesting that there should be a "bow" in VELA... What do you think - is this the bow that John saw when the 1st seal was opened?

(Wouldn't that be the coolest? Ever since I was a little kid, I new that this was the greatest time in history to be alive. We have certainly been blessed.)

My reply

The rider on the white horse comes forth parading as a prince of peace. He is the Tribulation Pope, probably wearing white robes. He has a bow of simple fabric, a symbol that he is a religious leader, a man of the CLOTH. I think he will be crowned by being made head of the OWG (One World Government) and UR (United Religions). He is not one of the good guys. He is the Beast of Rev. 13:2-10 and 19:20.

The crossbow sign in VELA is to call our attention to the reefed sails in the ship ARGO (THE COMPANY OF TRAVELERS) that stands for those in Christ and bring to mind that we had a new star there last year. However, this crossbow is also an ANCHOR if you turn the picture around. This ship has been backing into the dock. It looks like it is NOW casting out its ANCHOR. Time is ticking away. This ANCHOR is in the same place that the new star, NOVA VELORUM, was seen last Pentecost, Sivan 7, May 22, 1999.

Lu. 21:25-31 says, "there shall be SIGNS in the SUN, and in the moon, and in the STARS...And when these things BEGIN to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption (i.e., the Rapture) draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth (put out leaves in the spring), ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand (it comes June 20). So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is NIGH AT HAND." Rev.1:3 and 22:10 speaks of the Rapture as being "AT HAND." I think it is "at hand" on the anniversary of Jesus' Ascension Day. I think the Rapture could be 10 days later, on Pentecost, because the tribulation of the church of Smyrna is to be cut short at the 10-day mark (Rev. 2:10).

The Six-Day War ended on June 10, 1967. Christ was 33 when he was resurrected. We are the Body of Christ. June 10, 1967 + 33 = June 10, 2000, which is Sivan 7, Pentecost. If I read the signs correctly, the Rapture could take place June 10, 2000, Jerusalem time.

RE: A SIGN IN THE SUN. We just had a "Giant solar flare igniting into storm, scientists say" (6-8-00, Press-Telegram, Riverside, CA). "Scientists have detected a major solar flare erupting on the sun that could buffet Earth with a geomagnetic storm IN THE NEXT TWO DAYS" (June 9 and 10, Sivan 6 and 7, Pentecost). "This storm is estimated to be 20 times stronger than a solar flare in early April. 'Finally the sun is beginning to flex its muscles,' said solar forecaster Dave Speich of the federal Space Environment Center in Boulder. The latest eruption came at mid-day Tuesday."

HOPE WE HAVE AS AN ANCHOR OF THE SOUL. Heb. 6:13-20 says, "when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself, Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee. And so, AFTER HE HAD PATIENTLY ENDURED, HE OBTAINED THE PROMISE. For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife. Wherein God, willing more abundantly to SHEW UNTO THE HEIRS OF PROMISE the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to LAY HOLD UPON THE HOPE SET BEFORE US: WHICH HOPE WE HAVE AS AN ANCHOR OF THE SOUL, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus..."

Enoch was supposed to have been born AND raptured on Sivan 6, Pentecost (The Legends of the Jews, by H.L. Ginzberg, also the Book of Enoch). We must be sure we are walking with God. Gen. 5:24 says, "And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for GOD TOOK HIM." Also, King David is supposed to have been born AND died on Pentecost (New Jewish Encyclopedia). David is a type of Christ. David's experience strongly suggests a double fulfillment of Pentecost. Enoch's experience ties a double fulfillment of Pentecost in with the RAPTURE.

Maranatha. "Looking for that BLESSED HOPE, and the glorious APPEARING OF THE GREAT GOD AND OUR SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST" (Titus 2:13). Agape

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NEWINGTON, CT, Jun 8, 00--The orbiting Solar and Heliospheric Observatory has recorded a powerful series of solar eruptions including a FULL-HALO coronal mass ejection--or CME.

"The HALO CME was magnificent," said Gary Heckman, a space weather forecaster at the NOAA Space Environment Center. Scientists believe the huge solar flare could generate a geomagnetic storm on Earth late on Thursday or early Friday, June 8 and 9.

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Re: crossbow/anchor
The double anchor (has 2 pairs of flukes, one above the other), is the symbol of the second virtue, hope. (The other 2 virtues are faith and charity). This representation of the symbol is seen primarily in the Eastern Orthodox religion, as I recall. The single fluke anchor, on the other hand, is the symbol of hope in the Western or Roman Catholic church. The anchor is also the symbol for HOPE in the Episcopal Church. It fits in quite well: the symbolism of the ship with reefed sails, the 2 new stars, and HOPE, don't you think?

My reply

Yes. and thanks so much for your additions. Agape

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How are you doing? Getting excited? I can't seem to get terribly excited - too many disappointments, I suppose (in 1998 and 1999). Just wanted to tell you what a blessing you've been! I'm wondering if the 40 years are up in 2007, why do you think we are going up in 2000 and not 2001?

Also, just a note to say that I do disagree with your interpretation of the Cherubim as being heavenly planets. I believe when God tells us that a creature is a Cherubim and this creature has 6 wings and uses 2 of the wings to cover their faces and they cry "holy, holy, holy...." all day long - THOSE ARE literal creatures, not planets in the solar system. I believe as long as you can take the word of God literally (unless it is absolutely impossible to do so, His Word should be taken literally), not allegorized to mean something that it is not.

Also, I wanted to take a moment to tell you how wonderfully patient you have been with Mr. Yager. The man is a fruit cake...blind as a bat!

Well, I certainly hope that this is the year of our homecoming!

My reply

> > if the 40 years are up in 2007, why do you think we are going up in 2000 and not 2001?

Because there is a gap between the Rapture and the Tribulation. I now think that Revelation is written specifically to us when the Rapture is at hand. It is "at hand" in both the first and last chapters (1:3; 22:10). Jesus signs off with surely I come quickly. That is at the Rapture (2:5; 3:11). I think this is a 10-day period from the anniversary of Jesus' Ascension Day to Pentecost. This is why in 2:10, Jesus could say that their tribulation would end in 10 days.

The book of Revelation is bookended with Rapture passages, but between those obvious Rapture passages, EVERYTHING ELSE IS AFTER THE RAPTURE. Rev. 4:1 says, "a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will shew thee things which must be HEREAFTER.

In Rev. 17, the setting is right after the Rapture has taken place. Rev. 17:10-14 says, " there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is (the Pope), and the other (the False Prophet) is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space (3.5 years). And the beast that was, and is not, even he (Satan) is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which HAVE RECEIVED NO KINGDOM AS YET; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast (Pope). These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and THEY THAT ARE WITH HIM ARE CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL." The Bride of Christ is already with Christ, but the 10 kings are not yet crowned. As the Tribulation starts in Rev. 13, all 10 kings have their crowns.

This year is the LAST Pentecost before the Feast of Weeks/Pentecost when I think the 70th week of Daniel begins. The Oslo Accords were signed Sept. 13, 1993. Add the 7 good years and we come to Sept. 13, 2000, when the Final Status Peace Agreement is to be signed. Add the 7 bad years and we come to Sept. 13, 2007, which is 40 years after the Sign of the End of the Age, the Six-Day War of 1967. The Oslo Accords were ratified in Israel 3 days later, on Tishri 1. Add 14 years and we come to Tishri 1, 5768, which just happens to be Sept. 13, 2007. That seems like God arranged to me.

The 7 good years would be 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999 and 2000. I think the Rapture is most likely on Pentecost in 2000. When do you think it is most likely? If it happens on Sivan 7, it will be the 7th day of the week on the 7th day of the month in the 7th year of the 7 good years. That seems significant. It looks to me like we are running out of time. The good years end Sept. 13, 2000, and Joseph took up 1/5th of the grain in the 7 good years. The offering at Pentecost is "two wave loaves of TWO TENTH DEALS" (Lev. 23:17). Two tenths = one fifth, the amount of grain Joseph took up in the good years. Joseph seems to be a type of Christ, who will take us, the wheat, up in the 7 good years.

> > I do disagree with your interpretation of the Cherubim as being heavenly planets. I believe when God tells us that a creature is a Cherubim and this creature has 6 wings and uses 2 of the wings to cover their faces and they cry "holy, holy, holy...." all day long - THOSE ARE literal creatures, not planets in the solar system

That's ok. Be fully persuaded in your own mind. BTW, the Seraphim have 6 wings, the Cherubim 4. It is the Seraphim that say "Holy, holy, holy" (Isa. 6:3).

How do you explain Eze. 1:13: "the LIKENESS of the living creatures, THEIR APPEARANCE WAS LIKE BURNING COALS OF FIRE, AND LIKE THE APPEARANCE OF LAMPS"? All four orbit in concentric circles, wheels within wheels, around the Sun. The Sun is "a fire infolding itself, and a brightness (nogah, sunlight) was about it" (Eze. 1:4).

How do you interpret Job 38:7? It says, "When the morning STARS sang together."

How do you interpret Psa. 148:3? It says, "Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye STARS of light." Agape

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Re: The Earth is 65 Million years old???
I just read your reply on the dinosaurs , where you said the earth what hit by an astroid 65 million years ago... Are you kidding me? As a Christian and a believe of the Bible , how can you possible side with Evolution? Christians know the earth to be at the end of its 6000th year on September 30th. Do you honestly side with evolution, that the earth is 65 million years old?

My reply

I'm not kidding you. I believe every word in the original editions of the Bible were pure truth, and I DON'T BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION. There is NO SUCH THING. Psa. 33:6-9 says, " By the WORD of the LORD (YHVH of hosts, Isa. 44:6; 45:18, the pre-incarnate Christ) were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. He GATHERETH THE WATERS OF THE SEA TOGETHER AS AN HEAP: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. For HE SPAKE, AND IT WAS DONE; he commanded, and it stood fast." Jn 1:3 says of the WORD, "ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

Adam was directly created by the LORD. The 65 million years may be off, but that is what the scientists (Luis Alvarez, prof. of physics who won the Nobel Prize in physics in 1968, and his son Walter Alvarez, prof. of geology, both of Univ. of CA at Berkeley) that found and identified the iridium layer decided on. I have nothing else to go on to determine the exact time. My cousin worked with Luis Alvarez. I don't think Luis was the type to try to fool you. He honestly believed it was about 65 M years ago after his exhaustive tests at Livermore Laboratory.

In "The End of the Cretaceous: Sharp Boundary or Gradual Transition?" in Science, Mar. 16, 1984, the Alvarez group, which also included F. Asaro and H.V. Michel, reported that they found the iridium anomaly in Montana within THE REVERSED-POLARITY INTERVAL WHEN THE DINOSAURS BECAME EXTINCT." The foraminifera and nannoplankton extinction took place in a geomagnetic reversed polarity zone. Thus, whether the 65 M years is right or not, I feel sure that most of the dinosaurs were wiped out whenever that asteroid impacted Earth.

Another asteroid impact is coming up on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord (Rev. 8:8,10). Just thank the Lord that he has not consigned believers to the fate of the dinosaurs, or to the fate of the hybrid creatures of Gen. 6. Selah (pause and think of that). On Earth, civilization as we know it will be destroyed. EVERY WALL will fall (Eze. 38:20), but EVERY PERSON who believes in Christ will be safe with him in Heaven on that day.

Earth is visible from Heaven. Psa. 91:8 says, "Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked."

Concerning the 6000 years, I think that it was 6000 years from the time that Adam was cast out of the Garden of Eden to 1998 AD. I think that Adam was created in BC 4044 just before Tishri 1 started and was cast out of the garden in BC 4004/03, which was 243 BJE (before the Jewish Era). I think 6040 AH (Anno Homini, Year of Man) = 1997/1998 AD = the Jewish Year of 5758.

The Earth itself is older than mankind, very old. We are NOT TOLD how old it is. To us it is the dateless past. We have myopic vision. Earth's magnetic field is decaying so rapidly that it seems that only 10,000 years ago, it would have been 142 times what it is today. Extrapolating the decay backward further, it seems that at about 21,000 years, it would have been enough to blow Earth apart. However, catastrophes may have reset the clocks. We don't know. What we do know for sure is in the Bible, but it mainly concerns a 7000-year block of time. Before and after that block of time, we are only given brief hints.

The previous inhabitants of this planet were exterminated. Whether 65 M years ago or 11,000 years ago doesn't really matter. It happened sometime before Adam was created. Genesis starts off, "In the beginning (the dateless past) God created (bara) the heaven (heavens) and the earth. And the earth was (lit., became) without form, and void (tohu and bohu, waste and desolation); and darkness was upon the face of the deep (the land was buried in the sea). And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." Gen. 1:2 in the Concordant Version says, "Yet the earth BECAME A CHAOS AND VACANT (i.e., because of an asteroid impact) and darkness was on the surface of the SUBMERGED CHAOS." I believe there were mighty winds and the surface of the Earth was under water until the waters began their headlong rush into the Pacific Basin, causing land to emerge out of the waters.

God did not create Earth tohu and bohu, waste and desolation. It BECAME that way because of an asteroid impact. Isa. 45:18 says, "thus saith the LORD that CREATED (bara, to create a new thing) the heavens; God himself that FORMED (yatsar, to mould into a form, as a potter) the earth and MADE (asah, dressed, fashioned, prepared) it; he hath established (kun, formed) it, he CREATED (bara) IT NOT IN VAIN (tohu, ruin), he formed (yatsar, to mould into a form) IT TO BE INHABITED." In Genesis, the Lord REFRESHED the Earth to make it a fit habitat for Adam. He will do the same thing early in the Millennium, for Earth will again have been damaged badly by an asteroid impact.

The asteroid impact that preceded Adam had something to do with Satan's planet Rahab being split apart. A piece of it probably hit Earth. One side of Mars was badly scarred too. Job 26:11-14 says, "The pillars of heaven (the heavens) tremble and are astonished at HIS REPROOF. HE DIVIDETH THE SEA (i.e., took the Moon material out of the Pacific Basin) with his power, and by his understanding he smiteth through (crushed) the proud (Heb., RAHAB). By his spirit he hath garnished (shiphrah, made bright) the HEAVENS (by the impact explosion on Rahab); his hand hath formed (chuwl, to be hurled or whirled into something, as with a whirlwind, twisted, pierced) the crooked (bariyach, fugitive, fleeing) serpent (SATAN). Lo, these are parts of his ways: but how little a portion (a feeble echo) is heard of him? but the thunder of his power who can understand?"

Isa. 51:9,15 says, " Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD (Christ); awake, AS IN THE ANCIENT DAYS, IN THE GENERATIONS OF OLD (i.e., before Adam). Art thou not it that hath cut (SPLIT) RAHAB AND WOUNDED THE DRAGON (SATAN)?...I am the LORD thy God, that DIVIDED THE SEA, whose waves roared: The LORD OF HOSTS IS HIS NAME."

Gen. 1:9 says, "And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto ONE PLACE (i.e., the Pacific Basin), and let the dry land appear: and it was so."

Job 38:4,8-10 says, " Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding....Or who shut up the SEA with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and THICK DARKNESS (it will happen again, see Joel 2:1-3) a swaddlingband for it, And brake up for it (the sea, i.e., by means of an asteroid impact) my decreed PLACE" (as in Gen. 1:9).

Don't shut your eyes to the bigger picture. There are more than 6000 years to consider when you think of the Earth itself. That does not make evolution true. When you think of man, his test being mortal and knowing both good and evil has lasted about 6000 years.

Job 26:7-14 in the NAB is interesting. It says, "He stretches out the North over empty space (the astronomers found a tunnel through the stars in the north), and suspends the earth over nothing at all; He binds up the waters in his clouds, yet the cloud is not rent by their weight; He HOLDS BACK THE APPEARANCE OF THE FULL MOON by spreading his clouds before it...The pillars of the heavens TREMBLE AND ARE STUNNED AT HIS THUNDEROUS REBUKE; BY HIS POWER HE STIRS UP THE SEA, AND BY HIS MIGHT HE CRUSHES RAHAB; WITH HIS ANGRY BREATH HE SCATTERS THE WATERS, and hurls the lightning against them relentlessly; His hand PIERCES THE FUGITIVE DRAGON (SATAN) as from his hand it strives to flee. Lo, these are but the outlines of his ways, and how faint is the word we hear."

By the time Adam was created, I think Tishri 1 was just about to begin. That was the time of the NEW MOON. There are only 2 weeks between the full moon and new moon. Did this catastrophe take place about 2 weeks before Adam was created? Were the waters yet all in their "PLACE" (Gen. 1:9)? No. To me, this scenario seems likely. What do you think?

Psa. 74:12-15 in the Confraternity Version says, "O God, my king from of old, you doer of saving deeds on earth, You STIRRED UP THE SEA by your might; you SMASHED THE HEADS OF THE DRAGONS IN THE WATERS. YOU CRUSHED THE HEADS OF LEVIATHAN, and made food of him for the dolphins. You released the springs and torrents; you BROUGHT DRY LAND OUT OF THE PRIMEVAL WATERS."

Gen. 1:9 (KJV) says, " let the DRY LAND APPEAR." Agape

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I found your site about a month ago, while looking for rapture information. I feel that God has driven me to use my internet expertise, to try and educate others about Jesus, the bible, and christianity. Therefore, I am developing a christian index with lots of links to interesting christian resources. I know that the time here may be short, and therefore I'm putting the extra effort into this, so that it can help others up until the rapture, and those left behind. I'm asking for your help, and that of your readers. I'm trying my best to sort through christian resources to include within the index, but any sites that you could recommend would be very much appreciated.

E-mail any site suggestions directly to me at: jerry@netrecoverysolutions.com

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In PC 527, you commented:
***I think since the Resurrection/Feast of Firstfruits in 30 AD was on Sunday, the 50th day must have been on Monday. From Sunday to Sunday would be 1 week; from Sunday to Sunday would be 2 weeks, etc. The 7th week would end on Sunday. That is 49 days. Then Pentecost would have been on Monday.

The "count" depends on whether or not you count Sunday as the first day (inclusive). If so, then Sunday is the 1st, 8th, 15th, 22nd, 29th, 36th, 43rd, and 50th day. If you do not count Sunday as the first day, THEN the 50th day is Monday. Regards

My reply

That's right. You may figure it differently, but I'll tell you how I think. The day I got it straight in my head how I believed it was counted was the day Ed and I drove right into the inner color band of the most gorgeous double rainbow we have ever seen. It was breathtakingly beautiful. I'll never forget that day. I have the color picture of the very segment we were in pinned to my wall before me. It appeared in the newspaper the next day.

What finally made me opt for Sivan 7 instead of Sivan 6 for Pentecost was Josephus, a Pharisee priest. In Antiquities, III.X.5,6, he said, "In the month of Xanthicus, which is by us called Nisan, and is the beginning of our year, on the FOURTEENTH day of the lunar month, when the sun is in Aries...Passover...The feast of unleavened bread succeeds that of the passover, and falls on the FIFTEENTH...on the SECOND DAY of unleavened bread, which is the SIXTEENTH day of the month, they first partake of the fruits of the earth, for before that day they do not touch them...they offer the first-fruits of their barley...
6. When a week of weeks has passed over AFTER this sacrifice, (which weeks contain forty and nine days,) on the fiftieth day, which is Pentecost, but is called by the Hebrews Asartha, which signifies Pentecost, they bring to God a loaf, made of wheat flour, of two tenth deals, with leaven...nor is there any one of the festivals but in it they offer burnt-offerings; they also allow themselves to REST ON EVERY ONE OF THEM...THEY ARE TO REST ENTIRELY..."

The Saturday Sabbath does not enter into the figuring here at all. Each feast is a Sabbath, which means rest. Firstfruits is on Nisan 16, and the seven weeks are figured from that day, not including that day. Josephus had records that we do not have today. I go along with him. It makes sense to me that if Nisan 16 was on Sunday, as in 30 AD, they would say 1 week had gone by when the next Sunday came. If the weeks were counted by inclusive reckoning, each week would be one day shorter than the previous one. That wouldn't keep things straight.

Weeks and years seem to be counted consecutively. When inclusive reckoning is used, it seems to be when one picks out a certain number of days or years during which a certain thing takes place. For instance, June 5 through 10 is called the Six-Day War, not the Five-Day War.

Lev. 23:5-16 seems to me to agree with Josephus. It says, "In the FOURTEENTH day of the first month at even (beginning of the day) is the LORD'S passover. And on the FIFTEENTH day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread...then ye shall bring a sheaf of the FIRSTFRUITS of your harvest unto the priest: And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: ON THE MORROW (Nisan 16) AFTER THE SABBATH (i.e., after Unleavened Bread, Nisan 15), the priest shall wave it....And ye shall count unto you FROM THE MORROW AFTER THE SABBATH, FROM the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave-offering; seven sabbaths (weeks) shall be complete: Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall...bring out of your habitations two wave loaves...baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD."

Josephus said "after." the Lord said, "from." I think they mean the same thing, that day one of the countdown of the Omer starts on the day after Firstfruits. Agape

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I really enjoyed reading the postings on doves! I was almost sorry that I never see them here in Amsterdam. (Except what you call pigeons of course). So I was very surprised when on June 1st (Ascension Day) around noon two white doves with a dark ring-shape on their necks landed on our balcony and stared at me and my husband from that very short distance. Now I really understand what you all mean by saying they are peaceful-looking creatures! They almost seem to radiate love and peacefulness, it's hard to describe.

Jesus said we should be like doves, wow what a symbol and wow what a task! Well, the two doves kept looking at us for a while, then suddenly flew off (I don't think they were scared away, they just left). I have not seen them since. Somewhere on the internet I found pictures of doves and decided they were ringed turtle doves. They are said to be one of the most calm and peaceful dove-species and mainly live in Europe. In the love (and peace!) of Christ

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First of all let me say thanks for spending the time to teach us what you have learned and have been taught. I find your commentary very interesting and your timelines even more so. I have a question I would like to ask that I have asked of everyone I meet in bible prophecy. Up to this point, however, I have not received a good answer. My question is in regards to the after effects of the Rapture.

First of all, if the rapture is to take the believers in Christ, then I see millions of people being removed from earth during the period. Unless there is some other selection process to separate the sheep from the goats than confession of Jesus as Lord of your life, then I see the rapture as being completely disruptive to life as we know it for those left behind. Just think of all the jobs that will go unattended since no one will show up, all of the houses that will be vacant with no one to make house payment, car payments, etc. How will those left behind be able to deal with the fact that millions of people are missing, emotionally, psychologically, economically? I would suspect the economy would collapse in a day! I think everyone would know someone (at least in the US) who would be missing. I guess I just see the Rapture as causing such utter chaos that life would be impossible to get back to some degree of normalcy. In addition, if I were left behind I think I would go mad with the thought that somehow supernaturally millions of people no longer exist. If, as you suggest, the rapture occurs some time before the tribulation, how do you believe people will deal with this cataclysmic changes? How could it possibly be explained so people could get back to life as 'usual' as the Anti-Christ comes on the scene?

I believe in the rapture from a biblical perspective and from the example of Enoch and Elijah and Revelations. I have difficulty with a rapture of millions of people and still have life as semi-normal for another seven or so years. Could it possibly be that my definition of a believer is radically different from God's? Could it be that only a select few will get raptured and that the bulk of church going believer will still go through the tribulation? I've tried to clarify my questions, hopefully I have done so. Please let me know what you think. Thanks again

My reply

I suppose the Rapture could be quite a shakeup. Mt. 24:51 says of those believers left behind, "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." However, for the nonbelieving world, they will probably think good riddance because we are against their globalization efforts.

Isa. 57:1 says, "The righteous perisheth (abad, ESCAPES), and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are TAKEN AWAY, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come."

Joseph took up 1/5th of the grain in the 7 good years. The loaves offered at Pentecost were of 2/10th deals, which is 1/5th. By this being repeated, it may turn out to be the proportion of believers to be Raptured. Time will tell.

For sure, we know that the foolish Laodicean virgins will be left behind (Mt. 25; Rev. 3:16). Agape

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