Pro and Con 534

Posted 6-13-00

Incoming email

Re: rapture
I have been reading your site for 2 months now and have found it to be scripturally sound. Thank you for the information and I like how it is updated almost every day. I have never written you before, but just would like to share something with you since the "time is at hand". Almost three years ago, on July 10, 1997, I was in prayer with the Lord. I'm not actually sure who I was praying for at the time, but I'm sure it was a friend or relative. Well anyways, after my prayer, I began to pray in my prayer language for just little bit and while I was doing this I thought I heard the Lord say to me "I will return in three years". Three years later would be July 10, 2000. I have not been obsessed with this date, but would like to know if anyone else in the world has experienced something similar. I have never written this date on the internet. I have just mentioned it to just close friends. I'm ready when He is. Thanks again for a wonderful site. Your Sister in Christ.

My reply

Thanks. I'll post it and see.

Incoming email

Re: Lyn Mize: The emerging of the leopard, but with only 4 heads?
Thanks for your clarification, Marilyn. It didn't sit right with me either.

Forgot to mention in my original e-mail...thanks again for your hard work. Your site will continue to be an encouraging and insightful part of my personal Bible study. Amidst a little disappointment that the pre-trib rapture did not happen this Pentecost holiday, I couldn't help but think of Ephesians 3:20 - "Now unto him that is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us..."

My reply

Thanks. We need to stay ready, whenever it happens, and bring as many to Christ as possible. If the number of the Bride to go in the first Rapture is to equal the fallen angels, the Rapture might take place the moment that number is complete. In God's gospel in the stars, DRACO has his tail wrapped part way around the THE LESSER SHEEPFOLD. The Pole Star used to be in DRACO. Now it is POLARIS in THE LESSER SHEEPFOLD. I don't know of a scripture that would indicate that. It is just a possibility I have wondered about. Agape

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Re: 40 Years
We are still here and I am wondering about the fact that in 30 AD, if you add the 40 years to get 70 AD for when Jerusalem was sacked - perhaps that is a "message" to us. Our homecoming may have to wait 40 years from 1967 or 2007.

The generation of Jesus' day had 40 years before disaster hit. Perhaps OUR generation has 'til the end of 40 years befire the trib hits. That would mean we have to wait until 2007 for the rapture.

My reply

The Christians that fled from Jerusalem to Pella escaped before 70 AD arrived. There was no 7-year Tribulation that followed that.

In our days, it seems that there are to be 40 years from the taking of the temple area in 1967 to the destruction due on the Day of God's Wrath, which I think will be on the 2300th day of the 70th week of Daniel, i.e., Sept. 13, 2007. Thus the Tribulation/70th week of Daniel would start on the Feast of Weeks/Pentecost in 2001. I think we have to be caught up before that.

Lu. 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." I pray that the Lord will not lead us into Tribulation, but deliver us from evil.

Rev. 3:10-12 says, " Because thou hast kept the word of my PATIENCE, I also will keep thee FROM the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I COME QUICKLY: HOLD THAT FAST WHICH THOU HAST, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."

Rev. 2:10 says, "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation TEN DAYS: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." What if the 10 days are still to run? Agape

Incoming email

Re: Christ's return
Dear Friend, Well, we're still here. where did the calculation/prediction go wrong? Let me know. Sincerely

My reply

Don't know. Whatever I or others that write me find out will be posted on the Pro and Cons. We just have to stay ready, be patient, and occupy until he comes. Agape

Incoming email

Re: BE ENCOURAGED IN OUR LORD TODAY!!
Job 22:28
You will also declare a thing, And it will be established for you; So light will shine on your ways.

Isa 54:14
In righteousness you shall be established; You shall be far from oppression, for you shall not fear; And from terror, for it shall not come near you.

My reply

Thanks for your encouragement. I'm not discouraged, however. Things prophesied seem too near a climax. We just need to stay ready until he comes. Agape

Incoming email

Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 10:56 PM
Re: timing of rapture
well as I write this it is after midnight the 11th of june 2000, It looks like the rapture won't come on pentecost this year, however I want to encourage you to continue your ministry CHRIST is coming very soon and we should all keep encouraging and exhorting each other to holy living as the bible commands,If I might suggest possibly rewriting your website to show the significance of 5760/2000 which I agree with very strongly,as you know 5760 ends on september 29 and I think the rapture will occur by then for sure,don't be discouraged you have ministered to me and many others greatly, GOD BLESS YOU

My reply

Thanks. If you want to write something about the significance of 5760/2000, I will post it. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Old Earth age
It is a while since I wrote, but I continue to watch your web site with intrigue and am often moved both to frustration as well as tears at some of the postings here-in.

I do appreciate though, the way in which you publish both pro's and con's as your pages are indeed titled.

My comments today are concerning some statements made over the acceptance of an old earth age by yourself on the basis of so called "science" I personally see no reason to accept an old earth age, especially as the theory of the 65 million years ago "astoroid collision" with the earth thus destroying dinosaurs, is evolution's answer to an obvious cataclysym observable in the crust of the earth. This cataclysym we know as Noah's flood which was only aproximately 4000 years ago.

It is interesting to read in 2 Pet 3:5 that people would be WILLINGLY ignorant of this significant judgement in the history of the earth. "2 Pet 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

So significant was that flood, that the enemy of our souls will do anything to convince people that it didnt happen, and so through "science falsley so called" (1 Tim 6:20) will "push back" that judgement to where the world doesnt even care, even though the very judgement in Noah's day stood as a warning and a type of the last days judgement for the people to whom Peter was writing.. and still serves as a warning for us today who mock the word of God. The greater and perhaps more serious issue with an old earth age theory is that it contradicts the basic premise of scripture that death came to this world by one man's sin I.E. Adam. This one issue alone forbids acceptance of a pre adamic judgement or cataclysym. When God created the heavens and the earth in six days he saw that it was good. He also reiterated this truth and enshrined it in the commandments as a continual testimony against evolution and that religions NECESSARY old earth theory.

"Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." If we love the Word of God, we will take it as a whole and let its testimony be united.

I will write further, because I see the old gap theory showing its ugly head not only with the creation story but again with Daniels seventieth week! Remember, in interpreting Scripture: Rule number one: "The plain meaning first" Seventy weeks means seventy weeks, not three hundred and fifty five weeks (2490 years) God bless you.

My reply

> > the theory of the 65 million years ago "astoroid collision" with the earth thus destroying dinosaurs, is evolution's answer to an obvious cataclysym observable in the crust of the earth. This cataclysym we know as Noah's flood

You seem not to have studied this very deeply, or you would see that what happened could not have been caused by Noah's Flood and that catastrophe and evolution are not the same thing or even tied together. Have you never heard of the world-wide iridium layer, or the glass spherules scattered around the Earth? These things could not have been caused by Noah's Flood. Iridium is plentiful on asteroids, but not on Earth. Glass spherules are found in abundance on the Moon. Their abundance everywhere was a huge surprise when we finally got rock samples from the Moon. The profusion of breccias on the Moon shows the results of a terrific impact blast. Pillow lava from the ocean floor thrown on top of the ground as far away from the Pacific Basin as Wyoming demonstrates the power of the blast here. It was one terrific catastrophe. It had to be for the particles that became the Moon had to reach escape velocity.

> > an old earth age theory is that it contradicts the basic premise of scripture that death came to this world by one man's sin I.E. Adam. This one issue alone forbids acceptance of a pre adamic judgement or cataclysym

Rom. 5:12 says, "Wherefore, as by one man (Adam) sin entered into the world ("kosmos," orderly arrangement, not "ge," soil, the whole of the terrene, globe), and death by sin; and SO DEATH PASSED UPON ALL MEN, for that all have sinned." This death could not pass upon MEN until men were upon the Earth. That doesn't mean that animals and plants couldn't have died before man was put on Earth.

> > When God created the heavens and the earth in six days he saw that it was good.

Since it was good in Gen. 1:1, please tell me why in Gen. 1:2 it became "tohu" and "bohu," waste and desolation. All the land was under water. In Genesis 1, there are only three creative acts. In the beginning, the heavens and the Earth were created. Animal life was created in v. 21. Human life was created in vs. 26,27. The word for create in these instances is "bara." All the rest of the time, the word "asah," made (refashioned from existing materials) is used. Gen. 2:3 says, "And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created (bara) AND made (refashioned)."

Ex. 20:11 "For in six days the LORD made (asah, refashioned) heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is." If everything God made was good, and it was, why did he have to refashion anything?the heavens? the earth? and even the sea?

In Gen. 1:2, the land was all underwater. The heavens above were black from the smoke of the impact blast. By the third day, "God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto ONE PLACE (the Pacific Basin), and LET THE DRY LAND APPEAR." The impact blast took out enough material so that when the waters ran into the basin, dry land would appear out of the water.

Job 38:8-11 says, "who shut up the SEA with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? When I made the CLOUD the garment thereof, and THICK DARKNESS A SWADDLINGBAND FOR IT, And brake up for it my decreed PLACE (the Pacific Basin), and set bars and doors, And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?" Agape

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...Found the english page of Dr. Papke:
http://home.t-online.de/home/Dr.Papke/
english button in the left

Some more interesting essays about the bible is under www.custance.org

My reply

...Thank you so much for these URLs. I copied interesting parts last night and spent my morning today reading them. The most interesting to me is what Arthur Custance wrote. People that don't think there was any Earth here until Adam was created must just close their minds to evidence like the following excerpts. I have inserted a few of my remarks.
---
The Preparation of Earth for Man: by Arthur Custance
Chapter 10: Catastrophe and Reconstitution

...Whatever the cause, it was one which operated equally on land and sea, and it was surprisingly sudden. George Gamow has put it: (156)

***Equally on land and sea is important to keep in mind, for I think the Moon material was taken out of the Pacific Basin so that dry land could appear. In Gen. 1:2 all the land was under water.

The kingdom of giant reptiles with its innumerable representatives on the land, in the sea, and in the air, was certainly the most powerful and extensive animal kingdom during the entire existence of life on the earth, but it had also a most tragic and unexpected end. During a comparatively short period towards the end of the Mesozoic Era the Tyrannosaurus, Stegosaurus, Ichthyosaurus, Plesiosaurus, and all the other "sauri" disappeared from the surface of the earth as if wiped away by some giant storm.... The causes that led to such a sudden extinction of the most powerful animals that ever existed on the surface of our planet have remained rather obscure.

Not only do we have the evidence, of a negative kind, that such creatures suddenly vanished from the scene, but we have a more positive evidence in the existence of so-called animal cemeteries which are considerably later. These take the form of very extensive beds in which millions of bones of a very wide variety of species of animals are found indiscriminately mixed together. In these cemeteries there are the remains of herbivorous as well as carnivorous animals and the bones of the former apparently show no signs of having been gnawed. This is a proof that both types of animals perished together. Furthermore, there is little evidence of weathering, a fact which is taken to mean that they were buried almost as quickly as they were destroyed--perhaps by the very agency which destroyed them. And finally the bones are forcibly intermixed; that is to say, the leg bone of one species may be found rammed tightly into the eye socket of the skull of another species, a circumstance which suggests that these creatures were overwhelmed, not merely suddenly, but violently. Such cemeteries have to be seen to be believed. No simple explanation such as that the bones of centuries of dead creatures merely accumulated by being washed into a depression, or that they represent the after-dinner remains of generations of some particular local predatory species (such as hyenas for example) will suffice. These bones have not been exposed to the sun or the air for any length of time prior to burial, nor are they gnawed....

***Such violence and instant burial excludes Noah's Flood as the causative agent.

In 1821, Benjamin Silliman of the Department of Geology at Yale University, wrote of the large number of species which were apparently overwhelmed in this single catastrophe. He pointed out that whales, sharks, crocodiles, mammoths, elephants, rhinoceroses, hippos, tigers, deer, horses, various species of the bovine family, and a multitude of others were found in strata "in most instances indicating that they were buried by the same catastrophe which destroyed them all." (160) A contemporary of Silliman's, Granville Penn, wrote: (161)

The great problem for geological theories to explain is that amazing phenomenon, the mingling of the remains of animals of different species and climates, discovered in exhaustless quantities in the interior parts of the earth so that the exuviae of those genera which no longer exist at all, are found confusedly mixed together in the soils of the most northerly latitudes. . . The bones of those animals which can live only in the torrid zone are buried m the frozen soil of the polar regions....

George Fairholme, who described similar evidence in Italy from the Arno River Valley: (162) In this sandy matrix bones were found at every depth from that of a few feet to a hundred feet or more...large and more apparent bones of the elephant, the rhinoceros, the megatherium, the elk, the buffalo, the stag, and so forth...In some places so complete was the confusion . . . that the bones of many different elephants were brought into contact, and on some of them even oyster shells were matted....

The only conclusion that one can draw from this is that the death of these hundreds of thousands of large animals was unnatural, and virtually simultaneous. How do we know it was simultaneous? Because, as we shall see, similar vast cemeteries are found elsewhere, in which the predators and the preyed upon died together, and there is no evidence of the bones of any of the animals having been gnawed. The only difference between these animal cemeteries in other parts of the world and those in Siberia is that the former were not preserved by refrigeration, and therefore appear rather as vast assemblages of bones. (177) In the Harvard Museum a slab six feet by ten feet contains bones so thickly packed and in such confusion that there is every evidence of violence in their compaction. In the Colorado Museum of Natural History a similar geological exhibit is to be seen, taken from an animal cemetery at Agate Springs, in which it is estimated that the bones of about 9000 complete animals are buried in one hill...

***I have been to the Brea Tar Pits in Los Angeles, CA. There are many many animals represented, sabre-tooth tigers among them, their bones all mixed up.

The fact of the bones occurring in great caches or deposits in which various species are mixed pell-mell is very important, and it is a fact undenied by geologists that whenever we find such a locality in which animals have suffered together in a violent and instantaneous destruction, the bones are invariably mixed and, as it were, "deposited" in a manner which could hardly be explained otherwise than by postulating the action of great tidal waves carrying fishes and all before them, depositing them far inland with no respect to order....

From the Antarctic also there is evidence, according to geologists of the Byrd Expedition, (180) of similarly different climatic conditions. Great coal fields, evidence of luxuriant growth, were discovered at the head of Thorne Glacier in the Queen Maude Range within 200 miles of the South Pole. Such conditions so near to that frightful wilderness of ice and snow, which is so much more terrible than the North Pole in its coldness and barrenness, is remarkable witness of a previous world which must have been a very different one. So numerous are the fossils there that the explorers actually had difficulty making a selection. Today life in these regions is conspicuously absent....

The suddenness of this destruction is further strikingly borne out by the fossil cuttlefish of Lyme Regis that were killed and entombed with such inconceivable rapidity that they still retain the dark fluid with which their ink bags are filled when alive. (183) But these animals when disturbed release this protective device within a matter of seconds. Speaking of fish, Howorth even recorded a whale which was found entombed with the elephants, a discovery which Pallas confirmed--mentioning also buffalo in situ with the heads of large fishes....

These bones cannot be of animals which fell into these fissures (where they are found in such profusion), for no skeleton is complete. They cannot have been brought by beasts of prey, for none are gnawed. They were not brought by streams (i.e., spring floods), for none are rolled. The bones could not have laid exposed for long, for none are weathered. They were not covered up normally, for they were broken by the violence of their deposition together with the associated rocks....

The formation of these fissure deposits in so many places . . . seems to confirm the belief that the rubble drift itself did not owe its origin to normal causes, but to something catastrophic in the nature of earth movements...These bones cannot be of animals which fell into these fissures (where they are found in such profusion), for no skeleton is complete. They cannot have been brought by beasts of prey, for none are gnawed. They were not brought by streams (i.e., spring floods), for none are rolled. The bones could not have laid exposed for long, for none are weathered. They were not covered up normally, for they were broken by the violence of their deposition together with the associated rocks....

The formation of these fissure deposits in so many places . . . seems to confirm the belief that the rubble drift itself did not owe its origin to normal causes, but to something catastrophic in the nature of earth movements.

***When the Moon material was taken out of the Earth, it was catastrophic for Earth. Agape

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Ive been doing alot of studying of Ezek, Danielle, Mathew 24, Rev, Isaiah, etc etc and I cant say for sure, only God can say, but I think we will have to go through the tribulation till the prewrath phase. I dont think there will be a pretrib rapture. See The Message to the churches in Revelation notice how he always says he that overcomes or he that conquers. Would like to discuss this with you email me back. Sincerely

My reply

Lu, 21:36 says, "WATCH ye therefore, and PRAY always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY (kataxioo, to deem entirely deserving) to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." I think only the worthy, i.e., the wise Philadelphian virgins, will escape before the chastisement of the Tribulation. They will be ready, with extra oil (Holy Spirit) in their bodies, vessels of clay, when the Bridegroom comes for his Bride (Mt. 25).

Heb. 9:26,28 says, "now ONCE (i.e., the first time) in the end of the world (sunteleia ton aionon, consummation of the ages, i.e., the 3rd 2000-year age) hath he APPEARED to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself....So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and UNTO THEM THAT LOOK FOR HIM SHALL HE APPEAR THE SECOND TIME without sin unto salvation."

He appeared the first time early in this last age, the Age of the Church. He will "APPEAR THE SECOND TIME" to those "THAT LOOK FOR HIM" at the Pre-Trib Rapture. They "shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR" (I Thess. 4:17).

He will appear the third time to believers at the Pre-Wrath Rapture AND TO UNBELIEVERS. Mk. 13:27 says, "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his ELECT from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth (the Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of heaven" (those caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture).

Mt. 24:30 says, "And then shall APPEAR the SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN IN HEAVEN: and then shall ALL THE TRIBES OF THE EARTH MOURN, and THEY SHALL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." Rev. 6:14-17 says, " And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and HIDE US FROM THE FACE OF HIM THAT SITTETH ON THE THRONE, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great DAY OF HIS WRATH is come; and who shall be able to stand?" He will appear three times in this age, which ends on the 2300th day of the Tribulation (Dan. 8"14), the Day of the Lamb/God's Wrath.

Between the Day of God's Wrath and the Second Advent, there are 7 Jewish months (Eze. 39:12). Those months are the first 7 months of the millennial Day of the Lord. It starts as this final 2000-year Age of the Church ends.

This is a bit of an oversimplification, but I believe there are three 2000-year ages in time, the Age of the Gentiles, the Age of the Jews, and the Age of the Church. The final 1000 years of man's test being mortal and knowing both good and evil is the 1000-year Day of the Lord.

The reason it is not exact is because the Tribulation is added. Eccl. 8:5 says, "a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment." Time seems to refer to the 7000 years of man's test. Judgment is the Tribulation, the 5th cycle of discipline for Israel. Lev. 26:27,28 says, "And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will CHASTISE YOU SEVEN TIMES (years, Rev. 12:6,14) for your sins."

The Laodiceans will share in this. Rev. 3:19 says, "As many as I love, I rebuke and CHASTEN: be zealous therefore, and repent."

The Philadelphians have heaven's door open before them at the Pre-Trib Rapture because they need no chastening. Rev. 3:8 says, "I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an OPEN DOOR, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name." This is Heaven's door. It opens for the Philadelphians in Rev. 4:1. It says, "After this (THE WARNING TO THE LAODICEANS) I looked, and, behold, A DOOR WAS OPENED IN HEAVEN: and the first voice which I heard (Christ's, the "Alpha and Omega," Rev. 1:10,11) was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER."

We know what happens when we hear "COME UP HITHER." In the middle of the Tribulation, Moses and Elijah are killed. After 3.5 days, they are resurrected. "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, COME UP HITHER. AND THEY ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN IN A CLOUD" (Rev. 11:12). When we hear "COME UP HITHER," we will ascend up to Heaven in a cloud. Agape

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Updated 6-13-00