Pro and Con 537

Posted 6-17-00

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Re: What a verse
I don't recall seeing this verse on your pro and con pages before. This should make some of our skeptics ponder our reasoning. I came across it today while reading.

Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what HOUR I will come upon thee.

Seems to me that if we are watching we WILL know the hour he will come upon us.

I don't know how I missed this before but it is so clear now. Not much longer any way we look at it. Come Lord Jesus. AGAPE

My reply

It's...(on the Home Page). It is also in my 1st and 3rd books. Here is what I said in Revelations 2000, "However, what if we do watch? Turn it around and see. If we do watch, he will not come on us as a thief, and thou shalt know what hour he will come upon thee." Jesus was talking to the church. When he appears to the church is the Rapture.

I'm watching. Agape

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Here's the way I see it. We are now definately in the "delay". The delay could not have begun until this year because the 6th day did not end until the Jewish New Year of our 1999.

I believe there is one more final sifting of the wheat for the true believers to endure before the Rapture and it has to do with Peter's prophecy of the last days.

(2 Pet 3:3-4) knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, {4} and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation."

Think about the 99% of the believers who know enough about the Bible to understand that the Rapture will occur before the revealing of the anti-christ. This group thinks the anti-christ will be first revealed with the signing of the seven year treaty referred to in Daniel 9.27. They don't know enough to understand that this revealing is not at the signing of the treaty, but it is at the "confirming" of the treaty.

Come September 13, 2000, and the signing of the seven year treaty WITHOUT the Rapture having occurred, will come the fulfillment of Peter's prophecy (in my most humble opinion). Think of the Yeagers out there who will "scoff" and scream for your scalp as they viscously condemn you and me and all the ones who try to point out the word "confirm".

This will certainly test the character of us all. We must all remember to pray for our enemies. My best to You and Ed

My reply

Re: My thoughts, the scriptures running through my head I agree that we seem to be in the time that "the bridegroom tarried" in Mt. 25, but maybe this is now the time that the foolish are going out to buy oil. What if this is now just the 10 days of Rev. 2:10: "ye shall have tribulation TEN DAYS"? We can't let down our guard for a minute. What if the 10 days STARTED on Sivan 6 or 7, Pentecost, and will end on Sivan 16 or 17, June 19 or 20? June 20 is the first day of summer.

Song of Sol. 2:8-14 can fit late spring or early summer. It says, "The voice of my beloved (Christ)! behold, HE COMETH (as the Spirit of Christ on Pentecost?) leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills. My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he LOOKETH FORTH at the windows (how long? 10 days?), shewing himself through the lattice. My beloved spake, and said unto me, RISE UP, my love, my fair one, and come away. For, lo, the winter is past, the rain (of Nisan) is over and gone; The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing (the new song of Rev. 5:9) of birds (not in the orig.) is come, and the voice of the turtle (lit., turtledove, which lots of us have seen and heard lately) is heard in our land (around Pentecost); The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. ARISE, my love, my fair one, and COME AWAY. O MY DOVE (he told us to be harmless as doves), that art in the clefts of the rock (i.e., in Christ), in the secret places (places is not in the Heb.) of the stairs (like Jacob's ladder, bridging Earth and Heaven), let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for SWEET IS THY VOICE (like a dove's), and thy countenance is comely" (like a friendly looking dove). (See picture of a dove in the next email.)

We have had signs. We had the new star, NOVA VELORUM, last year on Sivan 7, Pentecost. This year we have the DOUBLE ANCHOR SYMBOL OF HOPE IN THE SAME SPOT, in the sails of the ship ARGO (THE COMPANY OF TRAVELERS). The Rapture is our "blessed hope" (Tit. 2:13). The passengers in this ship are in Christ, just as Noah was in the Ark, which stood for Christ, the one that saves us. Figuratively, is the ship ARGO now riding at anchor at the dock preparing for the boarding of the last passengers? The Rapture is as the days of Noah. He had 7 days to load that ship. Will there now be just the 10 of Rev. 2:10?

We do know that when the "trump of God" is heard, "the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air" (I Thess. 4:16,17).

Mark 14:41,42 says, "And HE COMETH THE THIRD TIME (as in the parable of the barren fig tree, Lu. 13:6-9), and saith unto them, SLEEP ON NOW, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. RISE UP, let us go; lo, he that betrayeth me is at hand." How much time went by between "SLEEP ON NOW" and "RISE UP"? Not much. Why?

Judas, son of perdition, is a type of the False Prophet, son of perdition. Is he now "at hand"? Jesus and the apostles were at Gethsemane (oil press). Is this a hint of trials? We don't want to lose any of our oil of the Holy Spirit. Our lamps must keep burning brightly even if it is longer than we anticipated. When the foolish virgins do go to purchase more oil, there is not time for them to do it and get back before the Bridegroom arrives. At that time Rev. 22:11,12 will come true. It says, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I COME QUICKLY."

Mt 24:36 mentions the day and hour, but v. 44 only mentions the hour, as if by this time the day can be known. The reason it is hard to figure out is given, both for the unbelievers and for the churches. Mt 24:36-45 says, "of that DAYand HOUR knoweth no man...But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And KNEW NOT until the flood came, and took them (unbelievers) all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field (world); the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women (religious groups, wise and foolish virgins) shall be grinding at the mill; the one (the wise virgins) shall be taken, and the other (the foolish virgins) left. WATCH therefore: for ye (foolish virgins?) know not what HOUR your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman (pastor) of the house (church) had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up." Right now, there are pastors that are watching and pastors that are not. Thank you Lord for those that are.

Many are afraid to set dates, can't afford to be wrong. I can understand that. But why can't some of them teach that there is even to be a Rapture, or that it could be near? How is it that I can get email from someone that says that in their church, they never heard of a Rapture. Why can't pastors say that if Christ was to come next week, would you be ready? try to get everyone ready? Some people need to be shaken out of their lethargy. God bless abundantly the ones that never fail to mention that the Lord's coming is near and to remind them how to get ready.

Ed and I visited a church here in Riverside, CA. I emailed the pastor and asked his position on the Rapture. He said he didn't teach about the Rapture. They have just bought land to build on. Evidently, they have no idea that it is near. Makes me wonder what goes through their head when they read I Thess. 2:16,17, that it is off in the distant future sometime? What about watching? Did that fall through the cracks?

All the Body of Christ will escape, but there are two Raptures, one for the wise virgins, one for the foolish. We can see the division in Rev. 3:1-6. It says, "unto the angel of the church in Sardis (which means THOSE ESCAPING) write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die (in the Tribulation?): for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and REPENT. IF THEREFORE THOU SHALT NOT WATCH, I will come on thee (the foolish virgin who needs to repent and is not watching) as a thief, and thou shalt NOT KNOW WHAT HOUR I WILL COME upon thee. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments (the wise virgins who are watching); and they shall walk with me in white (the Bride group): for they are WORTHY. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in WHITE RAIMENT; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the CHURCHES.

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Re: The dove incident
I have been an occasional visitor to your website for about a year. Everytime I come I manage to be encouraged and edified in one way or another. Yesterday I thought I'd pay your site a visit because I was curious about what was being said with regard to the relatively uneventful weekend. As I read through the June 10th Pro and Con section, I was immediately struck by something you said:

"I didn't expect people to start seeing doves where they hadn't seen any before, either."

The reason that statement struck me was because of an event my family experienced recently. It really was quite remarkable.

First let me start by saying that we have never noticed a dove in our residential area, let alone in our backyard. We have seen plenty of sparrows and robins, but that's about it. The bird I am about to discuss looks identical to the following picture:

About a month or two ago (two days before Mother's Day), my wife and two children (Mindy, age 6 and Christopher, age 4) were on the backyard porchsteps when a dove flew down and landed on the porch. Unfortunately our cat wanted to make contact too (in a less friendly way). The bird took flight right before the cat pounced on the very spot where the dove had just been. Needless to say, we weren't pleased with our kitty's actions, but Barb had a brief second to get the feeling the dove wanted to make contact.

Barb went into the house and left the kids to play in the backyard. Within a few minutes she heard our daughter at the back door exclaiming, "Mommy, Mommy, look at what I've got!". What Barb saw was very surprising. Within Mindy's hands was the dove that had landed on our porch a bit earlier. When asked how she managed to pick up the bird, our daughter said that when it landed on the slide near her, she reached out and picked it up. Barb immediately suspected that the bird had an injury, but upon inspection she found no sign of damage. As the bird rested on my wife's finger it was so comfortable that it began to fall asleep! Into the kitchen they went, and after being placed in a vining ivy wall-mounted basket, the bird slept peacefully.

A while later Barb, the dove, and the kids took a trip to a local pet supply store down the road to buy some birdfood and a cage. The employees in the store were amazed at how tame and friendly he was. This was unheard of. The dove spent the next week happily resting in a cage in Mindy's room. Whenever someone would enter the room he would greet them with a very soft, throaty coo. He was obviously where he wanted to be: in our home, on a finger, nestled in my daughter's hair while perched on her shoulder. Barb became concerned that we were depriving the dove of much needed room to fly, so she installed a bird-feeder on our back porch and put the bird on it. After a full half-hour of staring at my wife as though he wanted her finger back, he attempted a fly and managed to get to the neighbor's roof. After about an hour of staring at Barb from the roof-top, he flew off quickly and with strength.

On several mornings over the past couple of weeks, I have seen a single dove keeping company with a couple of sparrows about a block-and-a-half down the street. I have to wonder.

I thought it was worth sharing in light of these claims that "unique" dove sightings are becoming commonplace. Is the Lord in this? Of course He was. His will is implemented in every aspect of the lives of those who love Him, and I'm sure His eye was on that friendly bird when He brought him to us on that special day. Your friends in Christ

My reply

Thanks so much for sharing this with us. The .gif picture online is larger and at a much higher resolution than the .jpg one I'm posting, but people can get the idea. This is a really beautiful dove. Most of them around me now are grey. I have always loved doves from when I was a child and heard their soothing cooing as I went to sleep back home in Indiana.

Psa. 68:13 is a symbolic picture of Heaven. It says, "Though ye have lien among the pots, yet shall ye be as the wings of a dove covered with silver, and her feathers with yellow gold." Saturn has golden clouds, and the rings often look like wings.

Mt. 3:16 reflects this good symbol. It says, "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the HEAVENS were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a DOVE, and lighting upon him." Lu. 3:22 says, "And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a DOVE upon him, and a voice came from HEAVEN, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased." Agape

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Re: Keep Up The Good Work
I am sorry that the Rapture didn't happen last Sunday. Believe me I was so much hoping it would.

Don't be discouraged... the answer is there somewhere. You are a very insightful person, I admire and respect the research and work you have done. Sincerely Your In Christ

My reply

I am not in the least discouraged. It is an exciting time to live. We are seeing signs and are being shown when it isn't by the process of elimination. We are watching. We all must stay ready and watch. The next time it could happen could be this Sunday, the Eastern Orthodox Pentecost, or it might be 10 days after Sivan 7, Pentecost, on the first day of summer, June 20. That would fit Song of Sol. 2:10-14 and Rev. 2:10's ten days. Agape

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Is it possible that the Rapture could happen on June 20th,2000(rev.chapter20. verse6.)spoke of a resurrection? This year it seems to me that satan will try to mimic the rapture by unification of all religions June 26,2000.

My reply

Yes. It seem possible that the 10 days of Rev. 2:10 follow Pentecost. Ten day from Sivan 7, Pentecost, would be June 20, first day of summer. Song of Sol. 2:10-14 would still fit perfectly. The parables of the fig tree say summer is nigh. Agape

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Re: Rapture time.
As it was in the day,s of Noah!There,s that number Seventeen again,the (windows) of heaven were opened on the seventeenth in Noah,s day.Now we need to watch sivan seventeenth, which happens to be the first day of summer fruits.A red flag is signaling in me to watch that day!...the windows(us) of heaven being open reminds me of the rapture!

My reply

The "second month" of Gen. 7:11 does not fit, but I think Sivan 17 has a chance anyway because it is 10 days (Rev. 2:10) after Sivan 7 (June 10), Pentecost. Song of Solomon 2:10-14 still fits. June 20 is the first day of summer. The parables of the fig tree say that summer is nigh.

Noah saw the rainbow soon after he disembarked. I think we will too. People are seeing amazing rainbows now. It is interesting, because Gen. 9:13 says, "I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth." Agape

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I found this link interesting it describes God's 7 year warning starting with the 1993 Oslo accord signing up to 1999 Year of the great earthquakes, Interestingly enough, Most of these events falling on Jewish holidays. When you look at all this plus all the signs in the heavens listed on your web site plus UR and OWG and Israel peace treaty all signing this year, Plus all the persecutions, pestilence's, natural disasters, violence, increasing technology. I don't see how we could still remain here after the year 2000. God is definitely grabbing our attention in these final hours before His return! Great Tribulation appears to be at the door. Jesus must be on His way very soon!
Jesus is worthy, of our eternal praise!

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Re: Tribulation 10 days
Hmmm. "If we back up 10 days from the beginning of the Tribulation, it would be Ascension Day,"

I had in mind if we have 10 more days after that moment, would it be Pentecost??

Then the there would be tribulation 10 days...

What do you think?

My reply

Yes. 10 days from Ascension Day, 2001 would be Pentecost, 2001, when I think the Tribulation will begin. However, it seems to me that the 7 good years end Sept. 13, 2000. The Oslo Accords were SIGNED Sept. 13, 1993. Adding 7 good years and 7 bad years is Sept. 13, 2007, which I think is the Day of God's Wrath.

Sept. 13, 2000 (Elul 13) is not even the Feast of Trumpets. That does not come until Sept. 30, 2000. There is not another one of the 7 feasts between now and Sept. 13, 2000. The fig tree parables say that summer is now nigh at hand. If the 10 days of Rev. 2:10 started on Pentecost, Sivan 7, they would end on June 20, the first day of summer. I hope that will be the time of the Rapture. However, If we go by when the Oslo Accords were RATIFIED 3 days later in Israel, it would be Tishri 1. This way, the 7 good years could end on Sept. 30, which is the Feast of Trumpets.

When the first trumpet of the Bible sounded at Sinai, it was around Pentecost. When Ruth was chosen by Boaz, it was around Pentecost. Let's see what happens as summer begins.

As the first 1260 days of the Tribulation begin. The Beast is in power, and the ten kings are in power (Rev. 13:1-5).

The 10 kings are not in power at the Rapture. Rev. 17:10-14 says, "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is (the Tribulation Pope), and the other (the False Prophet, the 'son of perdition' of II Thess. 2:3) is NOT YET COME (he comes to power Mid-Trib); and when he cometh, he must continue a short space (I think 1040 days, the 2300 of Dan. 8:14 - 1260 = 1040). And the beast that was, and is not, even he (Satan) is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received NO KINGDOM AS YET; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast (the Pope). These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast (the Pope). These shall (in the future) make war with the Lamb (Christ), and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that ARE (at the present time) with him (those caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture) are called, and chosen, and faithful" (i.e., they are the wise virgins, the Bride group). Agape

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Re: sign in the stars
Well, maybe that thing in the sky is a rolled up napkin. However, If it represents anything, I would say it is a scroll. The bible is chock-full of the word scroll. In Revelation, for example, (5:3) ..who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? In the greek, the word is biblivon, a small book, a scroll, a written document. I think it is like saying, who is worthy to declare that it's time we move on to the next phase in history. I don't know why John the revelator weeped, shoulda been a no-brainer. I vote its a scroll, anyone with me? Lotsa agape, but not too sloppy!

My reply

A scroll would not be pulled in by a tie in the middle. That would wrinkle the pages and soon destroy the scroll. I wish you could see the picture that was printed in Discover Magazine. It wasn't so dark. You could see the pink cloud behind it and much more detail. Agape

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Re: Signs
Signs are increasing; winds are blowing ever stronger, there have been signs in the sky (strange northern lights, comets, rainbows). The signing of the "final" peace treaty is public and OWG and UR is coming soon.

The moment that starts apocalyptic events is near.

I believe that there will be even clearer signs in the Sun, Moon and Constellations/Stars. Signs that everybody will see with naked eye. Also I believe that all true believers will sense the soon coming rapture, there will be a clear warning (maybe 7 days before or something)

What I still am not sure what the scripture says about "tribulation 10 days" Is it possible that we will see the beginning of tribulation (the confirmation of treaty)but not the moment the 10 king receive office. The moment is definately close, but is it this summer? I think we will see it more clearly when the time is right.

My reply

In Finland, you have a chance to see those gorgeous northern lights. I used to see them sometimes in Indiana, but not in California. They looked like rippling draperies blowing in a gentle wind. Please let me know if you hear of anything happening when comet 76P passed so close to Mars and her moons.

The world now appears to be on a slick slide to the Tribulation. The Rapture is nigh. Stay ready. The 10 days could be between Pentecost and the first day of summer.

I do think the 10 kings will be "crowned" at the same time the Beast is, and that the Final Peace Agreement will be confirmed that day by the Beast and False Prophet, revealing for sure to those who know their Bibles who those 2 beasts of Rev. 13 are. I think we will be gone before that day, which I expect on the Feast of Weeks in 2001. Agape

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Updated 6-17-00