Pro and Con 539

Posted 6-19-00

Incoming email

Earth Changes TV-Was There A Comet Planet Collision In Space

My reply

Thanks. I've been wondering about Mars and comet 76P-West-Kohoutek-Ikemura. Please keep me posted if you hear anything more. My original picture of the CME on the Sun is an animated composite of June 6 and 7 SOHO pictures. I have never seen anything like it in maybe a year (more like 2 years) of checking SOHO images, but I have no idea whether it could have been caused by anything going on out at Mars. Agape

Incoming email

i had a dream the night between tuesday the 13th and wednesday the 14th. i must share it with you, even though it may not mean much too you, it means everything to me.

i saw the rapture, but i barely remember that part, i do remember it was cloudy, as if it were to rain. and i was looking up, then, instantly i changed and i remember a very strange but quick trip upwards, then i was on the clouds, i believe it was in heaven, but the ground was like cloud ground, you could see clouds but at the same time i saw the ground. it was so undescribably beautiful. i was walking next to Jesus, and talking with him. their were others following us around but i don't remember who they were. i also don't remember what jesus looked like in the dream. his face is clouded out and my mind replaces it with the everyday portraits we see today. but this dream has stuck with me and it seamed so real, i woke up and was disappointed that it was only a dream. thanks for listening, love in christ

My reply

Thanks for sharing this with me. Our son David dreamed of the three of us going straight up from our front yard through a hole in the clouds. I Thess. 4:17 says we "shall be caught up together with them in the clouds." One day we will know what it is really like.

Incoming email

The following is my latest set of exchanges with that young Muslim man that I was telling you about. I know you are really busy, but if you could spare a little time in helping me to respond to this, I would really appreciate, specifically because my knowledge of the Historical sources and authenticity of the bible are far less superior to your own. Thanks heaps. In His abundant love

My reply

Since your dialog with him is so long, I'll just copy parts I want to reply to. Here is what the Muslim said. Where he quoted you, it is marked >>. My comments are marked ***.

> If that is so, why is it that the church itself at the Council
> of Carthage in 397 decided which books were to be included in
> what is currently called the Bible? They excluded much scripture

***God is in complete control. The books he wanted included are included, and they are written the way he wanted them written. The truth of it's authenticity is proved by its being 100% right in all its prophecies.

> How would I, as a young seeker o truth, go about finding out
> which one is the Way of God? The authenticity of the sources
> of each religion *must* be a criterion in my decision.

***Pray and ask the true God to show you what is right. He will.

> How can you trust a book when you don't even know the author?

***God is the author. Who the scribe was that wrote it down does not matter.

> Islam says Jesus was NOT crucified

***Then why does the "Tractate Sanhedrin" in the Babylonian Talmud say, "ON THE EVE OF PASSOVER YESHU WAS HANGED" (Sanhedrin 43a GBT VII. pg. 181; SBT pg. 281)?

***He was seen after the resurrection by over 500 people. Others that came out of their graves right afterward were seen in Jerusalem before Jesus took them to Heaven that same day and then returned to Earth.

> Why is that important if Jesus died for my sins? For what am
> I being punished? I can't be being punished for my sins, can I?

***Yes, you can and will be punished for your sins. The soul that sinneth, it shall die. Eze. 18:20 says, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

***If Jesus is not your Saviour, you will die for your sins. Acts 4:12 says, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

***Jesus is the only one in all the world that was sinless and could die in your place, take the punishment you deserve, for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23 says, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." One lie is enough to doom you to hell and the second death, that of the soul. Without the body, and without the soul, the spirit lives on in hell. Eternity is a long time to be sorry you didn't accept the only Saviour the world has ever known.

> There are many logical contradictions between various
> sections of the Bible.

***In the originals, there are no contradictions. Sometimes two things are true, but we don't understand how they both could be true, but they are. Further study usually clears it up for us. Then we say, "Oh yes, why didn't I see that before?" We are just not a smart as God. It takes us a while to figure some things out.

>> II Corinthians 5:19, "To wit, that God was in Christ,
>> reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their
>> trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word
>> of reconciliation.
> Corinthians was written by Paul. It was his understanding
> of Christian theology. Even as a Christian, I believe that
> you acknowledge that Paul had problems with some of the
> disciples that actually LIVED with Jesus

***Jesus himself taught Paul. Paul was caught up to the third heaven. Paul knew things straight from the Son of God himself. Paul had been persecuting Christians until Jesus met him on the road to Damascus. Paul did an immediate turnaround. He saw that he had been wrong and was willing to change right then. Paul was a sinner because he persecuted Christians. If he hadn't changed his mind, he would have died for his sins and ended up in hell. Now, because he changed his mind, and accepted Christ as his Saviour, he is with Christ in Heaven now, and will never lose his soul. He will get his resurrection body when we get ours. Then he will be whole again, body, soul and spirit, for all of eternity. So will we.

> And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what
> good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And
> he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none
> good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life,
> keep the commandments.

***Jesus was trying to see what the man understood by calling him Good. God is Good, and Jesus Christ is Good, because he is both God and sinless man.

***Isaiah 9:6 says, "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

***Jesus was born of a virgin. God caused his human body to grow. No man did. Jesus had two complete natures, that of man and that of God, for "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" (II Corinthians 5:19). "For unto us a child is born (inheriting his human nature from his mother), unto us a son is given" (inheriting his deity from his Father). There is no other like him. He is one of a kind.

***Isaiah 53:5,6 says, " But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all." Wouldn't it be nice to have a Saviour?

> I wish I could believe that all I had to do to attain Heaven
> was say I believe in Jesus. I can not, however, the message
> of Christianity is so blurred and confused

***What could be clearer than Romans 10:9,10? It says, " That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

> What is of greater concern to me is the statement "we all pay
> for our own sins". I thought Jesus died for them! I am
> honestly confused on this point; and I want to understand.
> What did Jesus die for? Are we still liable for our actions?

***Yes. We are all liable for our actions. That is why we all are in need of a Saviour. Without Him, we are all sunk, lost, on a slippery slide to hell. He died for the sins of the whole world, but for it to apply to us, we have to accept Him as our own personal Saviour.

***Man was put on Earth to be tested. We have been given a book (the Bible) so we can pass our test. It isn't God's fault if we don''t read it. God is the Sovereign of the Universe. What he says goes. He decided what our test would be and what his plan of salvation would be. We have no say in it at all. We either do it His way or we are lost. It is that simple.

> What I really like about Islam is
> (i) Its simple theology: God is one. He created us and has
> the right to be worshipped and He has the right to tell us
> how to behave.
> (ii) Its Messenger. Mohamed was a great MAN (not Son of
> God), who set an example for us all. His manners were exemplary.
> (iii)Its authentic sources. Mohamed (peace be upon him), Islamic
> scholars and the community realised that the source of the faith
> was incredibly important. In fact, they also had divine
> orders to to preserve them. They went to extreme lengths
> to preserve the sources.

***But Islam leaves out God's Plan of Salvation. It gives you nice sounding platitudes and omits the heart of the matter. Christianity has more. It has a Saviour. It has a messenger that was both man and God and willing to die in your stead. It has Scripture that is God breathed.

> When a person becomes Muslim, all his past good deeds are
> carried, while all his sins are forgiven.

***That is not true. It is what Islam says. It is what you believe to be true. But, without a Saviour, you will die for your own sins. You are lost, and if you don't turn around like Paul did, you will be lost forever. And, you only have one lifetime to decide. Once you die, there is no more chance.

>>When the bible talks about DEATH, it means eternal
>>separation from GOD, when it says the penalty for sin is
>>DEATH, this is what it means, not that we will physically die.
> Sorry, I thought "death" meant "death". But if that is the
> definition you are choosing to use, does that then mean that
> Jesus did not die for our sins? I mean that you believe that
> Jesus is still living, right? And according to this
> definition, the end of life is not death. So the sacrifice
> is not valid, since by your definition Jesus did not die.

***Jesus died and was resurrected. He appeared to over 500 people during the 40 days he was on Earth after the Resurrection. During that time, he could walk through a closed door, disappear and reappear elsewhere. If he was not resurrected, he could not be our Saviour. That is proof of who he is. He had power to lay down his life and power to take it up again. No one else has ever done that.

***Man is body, soul and spirit. The body dies. If we die bodily in our sins without a Saviour, our soul will also die. Then our spirit will live on in hell.

***Isaiah 66:24 says, "And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh."

> what happens to those who do not have eternal life?

***Their soul dies and their spirit exists on in hell. Hell was made for Satan and the fallen angels, but every man that has not Jesus Christ as his Saviour, will join Satan and his fallen angels in their prison, which is hell.

> Say: He is Allah, the One! Allah, the eternally Besought of
> all! He begetteth not nor was begotten. And there is none
> comparable unto Him.

***But he is not our Saviour. Jesus is the only Saviour in the whole world. Mohamed didn't die for you, either. He died for his own sins, just like you will. As you said, he was just a man. Our Saviour was both man and God, fully man and fully God. Through him God spoke to man. Jesus Christ was therefore called the Word. He also is the Creator.

***John 1:1-3,14 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten [Greek: monogenes, only-born, sole one] of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

***Heb. 1:1-3 says, " God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high."

***If you don't believe it, I feel sorry for you.

In the love of Christ, Marilyn

Incoming email

Wow, thanks so much, may God bless you richly for your efforts (the above) and may he reward us all with a soul here, it's not too late, yet!!

Have been following every Pro & Con lately, the signs sure are rolling in....I am sure now that the rapture has to occur in spring or by the first day of summer, I can't see how Song of Solomon could fit otherwise, and like you I am convinced this is a description of the rapture period. In His Love

Incoming email

United Religions and Midnight Cry
You mention that the ten days of persecution of the Church of Smyrna could run from the United Religions signing (June 26) to July 6, at which time the rapture may occur. Part of July 6 on the East Coast of the U.S.( 6PM to midnight) will be July 7 in Jerusalem. One view is that July 7 is Pentecost. Interesting!

It gets better. From what I hear, the UR signing ceremony is from 3:30 PM to 5:30 PM here on East Coast of U.S. (Pittsburgh). If the ceremony doesn't go quite on schedule and ends at 6:00 PM ( or if UR's birth is officially proclaimed at 6:00 PM), that will be midnight on July 27 Jerusalem time. Ten days later would be midnight on July 7 Jerusalem time. This could be the time of the midnight cry. I find it significant that there is the view out there that July 7 is Pentecost. I think it will be very interesting to see exactly when UR signing is finished and when exactly its existence proclaimed. If at 6PM July 26, then it would be exactly 10 days to midnight July 7 in Jerusalem. Sincerely

My reply

Interesting thoughts. However, I have doubts about a possible July 7 Pentecost.

According to "A New Look at Pentecost in Light of the Calendar Adjustment in the Second Century," by Herman L. Hoeh, Nisan 16 (Firstfruits) must be in the spring--Pentecost also. The adjustment was to postpone by one year the intercalary months, made necessary by the rule that Pentecost had to be in the spring.

Note 1 says, "In a note to the Sanhedrin Tractate (section 12b) of The Babylonian Talmud, the translator, Rabbi Epstein states, "Though according to Biblical tradition our months are to be lunar (cf. Ex. XII, 2), yet our Festivals are to observed at certain agricultural seasons; PASSOVER AND PENTECOST IN THE SPRING; Tabernacles, or Feast of Ingathering, in the autumn."

The critical time in the Jewish Calendar was Firstfruits. There had to be a sheaf of barley ready at that time, and the Israelites could not use any of the barley harvest until after the Feast of Firstfruits. Pentecost 50 days later seems right to be in spring. It is the time of wheat harvest. They sowed wheat in the fall and started reaping it in the spring.

In "The Comprehensive Hebrew Calendar," by Arthur Spier, he said, "A special committee of the Sanhedrin, with its president as chairman, had the mandate to regulate and balance the solar with the lunar years. This so-called Calendar Council (Sod Haibbur) calculated the beginnings of the seasons (Tekufoth) on the basis of astronomical figures which had been handed down as a tradition of old. Whenever, after two or three years, the annual excess of 11 days had accumulated to approximately 30 days, a thirteenth month Adar II was inserted before Nisan in order to assure that NISAN AND PASSOVER WOULD OCCUR IN SPRING and not retrogress toward winter."

If Passover is in spring, it seems that Pentecost would be too. Spier continued, "However, the astronomical calculation was not the only basis for intercalation of a thirteenth month. The delay of the actual arrival of spring was another decisive factor. The Talmudic sources report that the Council intercalated a year when the barley in the fields had not yet ripened, when the fruit on the trees had not grown properly, when the winter rains had not stopped, when the roads for Passover pilgrims had not dried up, and when the young pigeons had not become fledged. The Council on intercalation considered the astronomical facts together with the religious requirements of Passover and the natural conditions of the country."

Keep watching. Interesting things keep turning up. It is neat to live in days when we can definitely see prophecy being fulfilled. Things are building to a climax. The Lord's coming is nigh. Agape

Incoming email

The International Herald Tribune reported: "Government heads at a European Union summit conference here will agree to set up a 5,000-man force of specially trained police officers to rush into crisis spots around the globe, EU sources said Sunday night. The EU may also invite Russia, Ukraine and East European countries outside the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, as well as Canada, to join in EU-led peacekeeping operations, the sources said..."

Incoming email

Feeling Left Out
Haven't seen a rainbow, haven't seen a dove. Tried to print the picture of the dove on your pro/con; it wouldn't print. Am I getting a message here? Any body has a spare dove or rainbow, send it my way (before June 20.) Love

My reply

Only a few have seen these things, but via the Internet, we can all share the experience. Wasn't that the prettiest dove picture you ever saw? Most that I have seen are gray with white showing in their wings when they fly. One was gray with a dark ring around its neck. I guess I was lucky to see that. A friend said that they had introduced some in LA about 5 years before to try to reestablish them in that area. I'm glad one got as far as Riverside so I could see it. Another one had a few white markings, but nothing like that one in the picture. I have never seen a pure white one that I can remember.

Keep watching. You never know what will turn up. Love

Incoming email

re: Is the rapture in the year 2000
I just thought i would mention a book that I read back in I think is was 1986. It was written by J.R.Church with Prophecy in the news. It was called HIDDEN PROPHECY IN THE PSALMS". J.R. Church found that the book of psalms reflect the plight of the jewish people in the last century. the book of psalms is the 19th book of the Old Testament. So psalm 1 mentions something about the plight of the jews in 1901, pslam 2 in 1902 etc. For example psalm 48 shows Israel in front of the United Nations becoming a nation. Psalm 91 talks about the Gulf War. And by the way it was the Psalm that was read by the troops in Iraq. This was on the cover of Time magazine in 1991. So it was that each Psalm perfectly talked about that particular year, and continued to up through 1999.

NOW FOR THE INTERESTING PART!!! Read psalm 100! Its a short psalm but the whole thing is in reference to the sheep being before the Lord in Heaven praising him! The next 7 psalms seem to depict the tribulation. And psalm 108 seems to talk about rightcousness prevailing. Also, I think Psalm 90 thru 100 is the Song of Solomon which the bride sings in Heaven after the rapture.

By the way. A friend at work told me she saw a giant rainbow around the moon the other night that was so awsome she called all of her relatives and told them. They were also awe struck she said. KEEP LOOKING UP!!!

My reply

I'm looking. I have seen a ring around the Moon, but never a giant rainbow around it--and AT NIGHT. Wow! shades of the signs in the Sun, Moon and constellations.

I have "Hidden Prophecy in the Psalms." I just never could really see that it was so. Psa. 96 says, "O sing unto the LORD a new song." That is sung after the Rapture in Rev. 5:9. Then in 98, it agains repeats the same thing. The Rapture didn't take place in either year. To top it off, in Psa. 97, "The LORD reigneth...A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about...The hills melted like wax at the presence of the LORD, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth. The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people see his glory." That is talking about the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord.

Psa. 100 does make sense. It's "COME before his presence with SINGING...ENTER into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise" fits. 101 fits the Tribulation saints. "O WHEN wilt thou COME unto me?...A froward heart shall depart from me. However, 102 ruins it. It says, "Thou shalt arise, and have mercy upon Zion: for the time to favour her, yea. the SET TIME, IS COME." That is the end of the shortened Tribulation. I just can't be confident that it parallels these years.

I think I can see more in Rev. 17 and 18. The whole book is written as if the Rapture were at hand. It is "at hand" in both the first and last chapters (1:3; 22:10), and Jesus signs off with, "Surely I come quickly."

In 17:14, the Pre-Trib Rapture has already taken place. They "that ARE with him (Christ) ARE CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL." This is the Bride group, for the parable of the marriage in Mt. 22, ends with v. 14's "many are CALLED, BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN."

After the Rapture, Rev. 17:12 tells us that the "ten kings...have received NO KINGDOM AS YET." We know from Rev. 13:1 that the 10 kings are crowned when the Beast comes to power as the Tribulation begins. Therefore, there is a gap between the Rapture and the Tribulation. This is confirmed in Rev. 17:16. Contrasted with "they that ARE with him" (Christ) in verse 14, verse 16 says, "the ten horns...SHALL (in the future) "hate the whore, and SHALL make her desolate and naked, and SHALL eat her flesh, and burn her with fire."

Verse 18 says, "And the woman (the harlot religious group) which thou sawest IS (at the time of the Rapture, v. 14) that great city (Vatican City) which reigneth over the kings of the earth." I think the Pope in office when the Rapture takes place will be the 6th king, the one who "IS" in power in Rev. 17:10.

Rev. 18 starts off with "after these things" (i.e., after the Pre-Trib Rapture) and skips to the Judgment Seat of Christ and the Day of God's Wrath. Rev. 14 7,8 says, "the hour of HIS JUDGMENT IS COME" and "Babylon is fallen. Rev. 18:2,3 says, "Babylon IS fallen, and IS become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For ALL NATIONS HAVE drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication (JOINING), and the kings of the earth HAVE committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth ARE waxed grich through the abundance of her delicacies."

It looks like Rev. 18:4 is the Pre-Wrath Rapture. Listen to John. "And I heard ANOTHER VOICE FROM HEAVEN (Christ's, as in Rev. 4:1), saying, COME OUT of her, MY PEOPLE (Christ's), that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

Christ's people have part in the judging, for verse 6 says, "Reward her even as she rewarded you." This agrees with Psa. 149. It says, " Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a NEW SONG (sung after the Raptures in 5:9 and 14:3), and his praise in the congregation ('general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven,' Heb. 12:23) of saints....Let the saints be joyful in glory (Heaven): let them sing aloud upon their beds. Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; To execute upon them the judgment written: THIS HONOUR HAVE ALL HIS SAINTS. Praise ye the LORD."

Rev. 18:10 says, "Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come." Verse 21 shows us that it is an asteroid impact that destroys Babylon. It says, "And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."

The first Rapture is as the days of Noah (Lu. 17:26). Rain fell that day, and rain is a symbol of the Spirit of Christ. The second Rapture is as the days of Lot. Lu. 17:29 says, "But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all." The first Rapture, the first trump of God, is before the 10 kings are crowned. The second Rapture, the "last trump," is on the same day the fire falls.

Since I think the 70th week of Daniel/Tribulation will start on the Feast of Weeks/Pentecost in 2001, it seems to me that we must be gone before then. Since the 10 kings are not yet crowned, there is some kind of a gap between the Rapture and the Tribulation.

Also, since the Oslo Accords of Sept. 13, 1993, seem to have started the countdown of the 7 good and 7 bad years, the good years probably end Sept. 13, 2000. Surely, we don't have long to wait. Also, the turtledoves leave Israel in October. They are mentioned in Song of Sol. 2:10-14. Agape

Incoming email

Re: third secret of Fatima
I just read this on AOL news: "The Vatican said Monday it will unveil the details of the so-called third secret of Fatima next week.....Ratzinger, the pope's top guardian of orthodoxy, is to release a text and commentary about the secret on June 26...."

Interesting that this will be revealed the same day as the signing of the United Religions charter. A lot of convergences going on. Love

My reply

Thanks for the news. Yes. Things seem to be working toward a climax--actually several different kinds of climaxes, when you think about it. :-) Agape

Incoming email

Rare Rainbow over Atlanta Skyline
We had the most magnificent rainbow over the Atlanta skyline this afternoon. They were showing it on the local news. If you can imagine a panoramic view of the downtown Atlanta skyscrapers with a huge, broad rainbow towering above them from one end of downtown to the other, that is glimpse of what it looked like. Very unusual.

My reply

Thanks a bunch. What a pretty picture that paints. I used to drive through Atlanta going to and from Columbia, SC and Kingsport, TN when Ed was stationed at Fort Jackson, SC. Agape

   Pro and Con 540   Or Return   Home

Contact me for more information at:

Send me e-mail now

8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110

© 1996-2000, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 6-19-00