Pro and Con 541

Posted 6-22-00

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My new site, "The Christian Index" is now online. Their are approximately 50 links to some of the most popular and resourceful christian sites on the Internet.

The Christian Index http://www.netrecoverysolutions.com/christian/

Please let your readers know about this index, so that they can tell others, and refer new and interesting christian links to me, for addition within the index.

Thank you very much, Marilyn. I appreciate your help with this project.
God Bless, Jerry Wallace - jerry@netrecoverysolutions.com

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Earth sized object breaking up near sun
http://www.rense.com
...extremely reminiscent of Shoemaker-Levy 9's fatal plunge into Jupiter's atmosphere. The object seems to be breaking apart in the exact same manner, the leading edge consisting of several large, bright fragments spreading apart, with lesser fragments trailing behind....

What's also very interesting about this event is the approximate size of the object. A cursory guess would have the object at near earth-sized proportions!

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I am confused about who taught St. Paul. Here is an excerpt from the Encyclopedia Britannica:

Paul, the Apostle, Saint, b. AD 10? Tarsus in Cilicia [now in Turkey] d. 67?, Rome [Italy] original name SAUL OF TARSUS
1st-century Jew who, after first being a bitter enemy of Christianity, later became an important figure in its history. Converted only a few years after the death of Jesus, he became the leading Apostle (missionary) of the new movement and played a decisive part in extending it beyond the limits of Judaism to become a worldwide religion.

His surviving letters are the earliest extant Christian writings. They reveal both theological skill and pastoral understanding and have had lasting importance for Christian life and thought..."

If he was converted a few years after the death of Jesus, how could Jesus have taught Paul? Thanks.

My reply

> > If he was converted a few years after the death of Jesus, how could Jesus have taught Paul?

I'll let Paul tell you. In Gal. 1:11-19, he said, "I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I NEITHER RECEIVED IT OF MAN, NEITHER WAS I TAUGHT IT, BUT BY THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST. For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I CONFERRED NOT WITH FLESH AND BLOOD: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I WENT INTO ARABIA, and returned again unto Damascus. Then after THREE YEARS I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

In Acts 26, 9-16, Paul said, " I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them. And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities. Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, At midday, O king, I saw in the way a LIGHT FROM HEAVEN, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard A VOICE speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I AM JESUS whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I HAVE (past tense) APPEARED UNTO THEE for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness BOTH of these things which thou HAST SEEN, AND of those things in the which I WILL (future tense) APPEAR UNTO THEE."

Acts 9:15-20 says, " the Lord said unto him (Ananias), Go thy way: for he (Paul) is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I WILL SHEW HIM how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even JESUS, THAT APPEARED UNTO THEE in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus. And STRAIGHTWAY HE PREACHED CHRIST IN THE SYNAGOGUES, THAT HE IS THE SON OF GOD."

All the apostles were taught by the Spirit of Christ. Eph. 3:2-6 Paul said, "How that BY REVELATION HE MADE KNOWN UNTO ME THE MYSTERY; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as IT IS NOW REVEALED UNTO HIS HOLY APOSTLES AND PROPHETS BY THE SPIRIT; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel."

I find it most interesting that the first epistle Paul wrote was I Thessalonians. In it, he revealed the mystery of the Rapture (4:13-18). He wrote to 7 Gentile churches, originating nothing, but unfolding much that was not fully understood up to his time. In I Thessalonians, Paul unfolded the truth of the Day of Christ. In his 2nd epistle, II Thessalonians, he unfolded the truth of the Day of the Lord. The Day of Christ is the Rapture. The Day of the Lord is the Millennium. II Thess. 2:2 has day of the Lord in most major MSS.

Saul was converted about 35 AD. After this he was humbly known as Paul. He was in Arabia 3 years, so he went up to Jerusalem about 38 AD. By the time he wrote his 4th epistle, II Corinthians, it was about 60 AD. At that time, he revealed that he had been caught up to Heaven about 45 AD. He said, " I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ (Paul himself) above fourteen years ago (60 - 15 = 45 AD), (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one CAUGHT UP (harpazo, as in I Thess. 4:17) to the THIRD HEAVEN. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into PARADISE, and HEARD UNSPEAKABLE WORDS, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. For THOUGH I WOULD DESIRE TO GLORY, I SHALL NOT BE A FOOL; for I will say the truth: but now I FORBEAR, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD THINK OF ME ABOVE THAT WHICH HE SEETH ME TO BE, or that he heareth of me. And lest I should be exalted above measure through THE ABUNDANCE OF THE REVELATIONS, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure" (II Cor. 12:1-7). Agape

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San Francisco Chronicle: 6-19-00
Episcopal Bishop Seeks To Unite World Faiths
His organization will act as a spiritual U.N.
by Don Lattin, Chronicle Religion Writer

Imagine trying to design a global agency that could speak for all the religions of the world, a spiritual parliament patterned after the United Nations.

That was the dream of Episcopal Bishop William Swing of San Francisco, who has been envisioning just such an organization for the past five years. One week from today, ``United Religions'' will be officially born at a charter-signing ceremony in Pennsylvania.

But transforming the vision into reality has not been easy.

While getting representation from organized churches with strict hierarchies -- such the Roman Catholic Church -- seemed doable, Swing found that the Vatican wanted nothing to do with his organization.

Then there were fundamentalist groups such as the 15.9-million- member Southern Baptist Convention, the largest Protestant church in the United States. Many of its leaders today look at other religions and see little more than potential converts to their brand of Christianity.

Then came the problem of what to do with the groups at the other end of the theological spectrum -- the world's pagans, animists, shamans, goddess worshipers and other eclectic spiritualists. How do you even count them, let alone find someone to represent them?

And what of the other major world religions. Who can speak for the world's Jews, many of whom spend much of their time arguing among themselves? Or the Muslims, many of whom don't want to sit down with Jews?

Then there are Buddhists, divided into countless sects, and the teeming spiritual chaos in India, which the West tries to simplify with little words like ``Hindu.''

Add it all up and you see what Swing has been up against for the last five years.

BEGINNING OF THE DREAM

Swing, the spiritual leader of the Episcopal Diocese of California, publicly announced his United Religions dream in June 1995 at a worship service at Grace Cathedral marking the 50th anniversary of the United Nations.

Since then, he and a growing global band of interfaith activists have been laying the foundations for the organization.

In a recent interview, Swing sat in an office at the United Religions headquarters at the Presidio, recalling the past five years.

``We sat in this room for three years working on a charter,'' he said. ``What we came up with is like nothing ever seen in the world of religion.''

Early in the process, Swing got a less-than-enthusiastic response from many religious leaders. So he and his colleagues decided to build the United Religions from the bottom up.

``We went out into the world looking for people doing interfaith work, and made contact with them,'' said Swing, pointing to a world map covered with pins representing those contacts. ``We couldn't wait around for religious leaders.''

Organizers soon gave up on the idea of actually trying to represent all the organized religions and eclectic spiritual movements on the planet.

``We don't want people coming over and thinking they are representing Orthodox Christianity or, as if anyone could, Hinduism,'' Swing said. ``But we are looking for a diverse presence.''

And, added the Rev. Charles Gibbs, executive director of the United Religions Initiative, ``We don't need some super-bureaucracy.

``We want people to be globally connected, but with tremendous freedom for local expression,'' Gibbs said. ``When appropriate, we will speak on global issues, but we don't want to play a tune and assume everyone else must dance to it.''

STRESSING COOPERATION

So, the basic unit of the United Religions will be ``Cooperation Circles.'' Any group of seven people or more from a mix of religions, spiritual expressions or indigenous traditions can become part of the U.R. by forming one of those circles.

Then they embark on a local project that promotes the organization's beliefs, such as nonviolent conflict resolution, protecting the environment, encouraging religious tolerance, and working for justice and peace.

These activities will be coordinated at the international level by a 41-member Global Council. Twenty-four of its members will be elected by the world membership of the United Religions in eight regional elections. Diversity will be ensured with a dozen at-large trustees, and the last five seats will be taken by Swing and others on the current U.R. board.

Currently, the organization has an annual budget of $1.8 million, raised by private donations, including substantial help from a Silicon Valley venture capitalist who prefers to remain anonymous.

Swing has had trouble getting support from the Vatican, the leadership of Orthodox Christians, Muslims and the Southern Baptist Convention.

One of the ironies about the United Religions, Swing says, is that religious groups that are convinced they have the exclusive path to salvation are the hardest ones to approach -- and yet are the ones that most need to hear the U.R. message.

FUNDAMENTALISTS A TOUGH SELL

``As for the fundamentalists,'' he says, ``we're just going to stay in business long enough that we will find some organizing work together that is mutually helpful to both sides. Fundamentalists are concerned with religious persecution, and so are we. The only United Religions principle I've heard a fundamentalist object to is when we say no one will be forced to participate in a liturgy or to proselytize. When a fundamentalist sees that, they may say, `But I want to proselytize.' ''

Locally, United Religions has the support of the Roman Catholic Church. Its board includes the Rev. Gerard O'Rourke, the ecumenical officer for the San Francisco Archdiocese, and the Rev. John LoSchiavo, chancellor of the Jesuit-run University of San Francisco.

Early in his quest, Swing visited Cardinal Francis Arinze of Nigeria, the head of the Vatican's Pontifical Council for Inter-religious Dialogue, and a prelate often included on lists of possible successors to Pope John Paul II.

``If this is of God, I will not be able to defeat it,'' the cardinal told Swing. ``If it is only of human beings, it is not going to amount to anything.''

Now's the time to find out.

The United Religions will be at a charter signing ceremony next Monday afternoon at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh. That will be the highlight of a five-day gathering that is expected to draw 375 participants from six continents.

Represented at the signing ceremony will be Hindus, Zoroastrians, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Taoists, Wiccans, Baha'is, Sikhs and representatives of indigenous people around the world.

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Re: Velikovsky, animal graveyards
Here, as you requested, is an excerpt from Earth in Upheaval by Immanuel Velikovsky concerning animal graveyards in England. As you know, this is but a small fraction of the evidence he submits for the flood. The following is tken from Ch.2 REVOLUTION.

"The Caves of England"
"In 1823, William Buckland, professor of geology at the University of Oxford, published his Reliquiae diluvianae (Relics of the Flood), with the subtitle, Observations on the organic remains contained in caves, fissures, and diluvial gravel, and on other geological phenomena, attesting to the action of an universal deluge. Buckland was one of the great authorities on geology of the first half of the nineteenth century. In a cave in Kirkdale in Yorkshire, eighty feet above the valley, under a floor covering of stalagmites, he found teeth and bones of elephants, rhinoceroses, hippopotami, horse, deer, tigers (the teeth of which were 'larger than those of the largst lion or Bengal tiger'), bears, wolves, hyenas, foxes, hares, rabbits, as well as bones of ravens, pigeons, larks, snipe, and ducks. Many of the animals had died 'before the first set or milk teeth had been shed.' Certain scholars prior to Buckland had their own expanation for the provenience of elephant bones in the soil England, and to them Buckland referred: '[The idea which long prevailed, and was considered satisfactory by the antiquaries (archaeologists) of the last century, was that they were the remains of the elephants imported by the Roman armies. This idea is also refuted: First, by the anatomical fact of their belonging to an extinct species of this genus; second, by their being accompanied by the bones of rhinoceros and hippopotamus, animals which could never have been attached to Roman armies; thirdly, by their being disbursed over Siberia and North America in equal or even greater abundance than in those parts of Europe which were subjected to the Roman power.'

[copyist's note: reader beware!]

It appeared that hippopotamus and reindeer and bison lived side by side at Kirkdale; hippopotamus, reindeer and mammoth pastured together at Brentford near London. Reindeer and grizzley bear lived with the hippopotamus at Cefn in Wales. Lemming and reindeer bones were found together with bones of the cave lion and hyena at Bleadon at Somerset. Hippopotamus, bison, and musk shep were found together with worked flint in the gravels of the Thames valley. The remains of reindeer lay with the bones of mammoth and rhinoceros in the cave at Breugne in France. At Arcy, France, also in a cave, bones of the hippopotamus were found with bones of the reindeer, and with them a worked flint.

According to the prophecy of Isaiah (11:6), in messianic times to come the lion and the calf would pasture together. But even prophetic vision has not conceived of a reindeer from snow-covered Lapland and a hippopotamus from the tropical Congo river living together in the British isles or in France. Yet they did leave their bones in the same mud of the same caves, together with the bones of other animals in the strangest assortments.

[copyist's note: OK to proceed normally.]

These animal bones were found in gravel and clay to which Buckland gave the name diluvium.

Buckland was concerned to 'establish two important facts, first, that there has been a recent and general inundation of the globe; and second, that the animals whose remains are found interred in the wreck of that inundation were natives of high north latitudes.' The presence of tropical animals in northern Europe 'cannot be solved by supposing them to migrate periodically ... for in the case of crocdiles and tortoises extensive migration is almost impossible, and not less so to such an unwieldy animal as the hippopotamus out of water.' But how could they live in the cold of northern Europe? Buckland says: 'It is equally difficult to imagine that they could have passed their winters in lakes or rivers froxen with ice." If cold-blooded land animals are unable to hide themselves in the ground over winter, in icy climates their blood would freeze solid: they lack the ability to regulate the temperature of their bodies. Like Cuvier, Buckland was 'nearly certain that if any change of climate has taken place, it took place suddenly'
...
Buckland thought that the time elapsed since a diluvial catastrophe could not have exceeded five or six thousand years, the figure also adopted by De Luc, Dolomieu, and Cuvier, each of whom presented his own reasons.

The the illustrious geologist added these words: 'What [the] cause was, whether a changge in the inclination of the earth's axis, or a near approach of a comet, or any other cause or combination of causes purely astronomical, is a question the discussion of which is foreign to the object of the present memoir."
---
God bless

My reply

Thanks so much. It has been many years since I read Velikovsky. These details had gotten lost in my memory somewhere. I think our brains are much like a filing system, with current things in front of older information. That reminds me of my literal filing system. I have saved so much stuff that I don't even want to go through it to hunt for some things. It doesn't have a convenient Search and Find, as my Download folder has. Agape

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Re: Informative Website
I just wanted to tell you I enjoy your site. I had no idea about the URI mentioned in your website. I looked them up and read their page and had shivers go down my spine. I am currently reading the Left Behind Series and it read so much like the book. We are truly living in the Last Days. I love to Study the Books of Prophesies like Daniel, Revelation, etc. I believe that people confuse the Rapture with the Second Coming. Yes no one will know the Hour of the Second coming but it was mentioned somewhere that we will know when the Groom will come for his church. The Bride will have her lamp ready we will not be taken like the Thief of the Night. I believe that we will know when the Rapture will happen. God works on a time table, otherwise why give man a calendar? Why set times for the seasons and festivals? We must look at the Jewish Calendar. I truly believe that the Rapture will take place at a Harvest time, Feast of the Trumpets. The year I don't know but it will be before my fathers generation passes away. He was born in 45 and those that saw Israel become a Nation in 48 shall not pass away. I believe it will be in my lifetime. I am looking up everyday. I pray for all of those who are lost that they will look up to Christ before his return. Thank you for you site and God Bless You. Sincerely, A Sister in Christ

My reply

Thanks for your kind words. People are so nice to send me things they know I am interested in. I don't have time to go hunt for much on my own. I thank the Lord for these thoughtful ones and for the means to post these things for all to see. My Web site is even paid for through next March, thanks to others. God bless these every one. We couldn't do it on our own. Someone even gave me this computer. I am so thankful, for now I can not only do things faster, but use the Bible Plus program. I no longer have to type every letter of every scripture I quote. It is such a Plus, I can hardly believe I have it. I never thought I would.

I just haven't been able to see that the Feast of Trumpets fits the first Rapture, although I think it fits the second one perfectly. Read Song of Sol. 2:10-14 and see what you think. The former rain starts with Tishri 1, the latter rain with Nisan 1 (Hos. 6:3; Eze. 29:17,21; 45:18,21).

Mic. 7:1 says, "Woe is me! for I am as (symbolic language) when they have gathered the summer fruits, as the grapegleanings of the vintage (Tishri): there is no cluster to eat: my soul desired the FIRSTRIPE FRUIT." Aren't we like firstripe fruit? Grapes come on around the first of June. How long would you call the harvest "firstripe"?

Mt. 24:32,33 says, "... summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it ( 'the kingdom of God,' Lu. 21:31) is near, even at the doors" (symbol of the Rapture in Rev. 3:8; 4:1). If the first Rapture was on Trumpets, wouldn't autumn be near?

Lu. 21:25,28-31 says, "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars...And when these things BEGIN to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand."

After the two new stars, Nova Velorum and Nova Aquilla, last year, we just lately have the amazing double anchor in the same place as Nova Velorum was on May 22, 1999 (Sivan 7, Pentecost). This June, we have had a great flaring solar storm, an announcement that there are lights on the Moon, and they have found water on Mars that is not in the polar caps. We haven't heard yet if comet 76P made it past Mars without incident.

Things seem to building to a climax. Agape

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FW: Arabs Building a 5th Mosque on the Temple Mount See email below about the Muslims wanting to tear down the western gate. I was trying to remember which gate the Messiah was supposed to enter by...was it the western gate? If possible, would you point me to the prophecy in the OT? Thanks

From: Temple Mount Faithful: 6-22-00
Arabs Building a 5th Mosque on the Temple Mount

As a continuation to the information which we have already supplied about the destruction being caused by the Arabs on the Temple Mount, we can now inform you that, according to the security authorities who informed the government of Israel, the Arabs on the Temple Mount, together with the Islamic Movement in Israel, are now busy, not only with destroying the remains of the First and Second Temples, but also with the building a new mosque on the Temple Mount along the eastern wall. (2 other mosques were built on the southern side of the Temple Mount over the last 2 years.) According to these sources, the Waqf also have further plans to make changes on the Temple Mount such as removing the western gate and replacing it with an iron gate and adding roofs in many places. All these activities show very clearly that their plan is to make most of the Temple Mount into an area of one great mosque.

This is a part of their intensive destruction and building plan to remove the Jewish identity of the Temple Mount and make the holy site of Gd a place of foreign, pagan, Islamic worship....

My reply

It is the Eastern Gate, the one that is sealed up. See Eze. 44:1-3. Agape

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Re: God bless you
Just wanted to say thank you again for your labor and dedication in the Lord's work which is a wonderful blessing! It has been a few days since I have seen a recent update on your postings and am as always anxiously awaiting for more news of signs for the Lord's return. Thank you again and may the Lord richly bless you!

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Re: Half-hour of silence in Heaven
Could you please give your thoughts on this puzzling piece of scripture in Rev 8:1-6? Yours in Christ

My reply

Hab. 2:20 says, "the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him," so both Heaven and Earth are silent. My guess is that it is while Christ is being seated as judge at the Judgment Seat of Christ. In Rev. 8, the silence precedes the 7 trumpets being given to the 7 angels. Those trumpets are judgment on unbelievers left on Earth.

They have already seen the Sign of the Son of Man (Mt. 24:30). Rev. 6:14-17 says, "the heaven (i.e., the smoky atmosphere) departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Jer. 30:6 says, "Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?" Do you think they are silent here? By this time, they know what is coming. Small rocks have already fallen (Rev. 6:13).

The silence in Heaven is probably out of respect, that on Earth out of fear. Men's hearts will be failing them for fear. This is the terror of terrors. Agape

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