Pro and Con 548

Posted 7-5-00

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1. PLO TO DECLARE STATE SEPT. 13; BARAK THREATENS ANNEXATION The PLO Central Council decided last night to declare a Palestinian state on Sept. 13. Prime Minister Barak said yesterday that if the Palestinian Authority unilaterally declares a state, Israel will annex the areas in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza (Yesha) planned for the settlement blocs. Justice Minister Yossi Beilin said today that the Palestinians will gain nothing from declaring a state that Israel does not recognize.

A senior PA official has called on the Islamic Jihad and Hamas to join forces with the PA in anticipation of what he called "the final battle with Israel." Imad Falouji, responsible for PA Communications, told reporters last night that the battle will develop after Arafat's declaration of a state. He said that there will be a war over Jerusalem, and predicted that "no settler will be able to return to his home."

My reply

It is not hard to see Zech. 12:2,3 coming by the 2300th day (Dan. 8:14) of the Tribulation. It says, "Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though ALL the people of the earth be gathered together against it" (Eze. 38).

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Re: double anchor sign in the Sun
this is incredible....The same double anchor sign...amazing!!

Note: It is like the 2nd witness.

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PC 546. Truly outstanding post by the Messianic Jew. What a brilliant mind he has!

In case anyone missed it, I quote a section here of his post,
"...4. Remnant of the Tribulation:
a.The Lord Y'Shua returns to the earth with His saints. (1 Thess chapters 3:13 & Jude 14).
b.Y'Shua at the same time delivers saints at the Second Advent. (Zech 14:1-5).
c.Y'Shua cannot come with saints and deliver saints unless there are two groups of saints. 1. The Church and 2. Tribulation saints. Obviously two groups exist and both groups of saints are separated.... "

He also has come to the realization there are 2 raptures, although he did it in a way I have not seen before.

My reply

I was impressed with his work also. He sure understands more than some Messianic Jews. He did it by reading the scriptures instead of allowing someone else to tell him what they meant. Agape

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Re: The Prize
It seems Paul indicates in 2 Timothy 4:7-8 that he finished the race and knows that he will receive the crown of righteousness. In earlier passages when he was running the race, Paul was very concerned about obtaining the "prize." Paul was not raptured, so how could the rapture be the prize.

Please consider that your statement may be correct but as the result not the cause. Those who would be accounted worthy to receive the prize when they died (as Paul was and is) would be worthy to be raptured if they were alive at the time of the first resurrection.

The dead in Christ shall rise first then we who remain alive shall join them. Who is the "we" that Paul is addressing his letter to? The church "in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." The same as "dead in Christ." The key is who is in Christ. If we are not in Christ, we will not be included in the rapture.

This, like all spiritual truth, is not obtained by human wisdom but by spiritual discernment (a gift of the Holy Spirit.)

James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.

Jesus said that he could do nothing on His own, but that He did what He saw His Father doing. He then instructed His disciples to abide in Him, for apart from Him they (we) could do nothing. In my NIV version (the New Italian Version) that means "what part of nothing don't you understand?"

I agree with most of what you write, except that the all of this scripture is focused on the rapture. The rapture will be a small number compared to the dead in Christ. The focus should be on being one who overcomes, because if one who has overcome is alive when the Lord returns he or she will be raptured.

Marilyn, you have struggled mightily to assemble a massive work of scholarship. I, myself, do not have your discipline though I seek the truth just as much. But, when I read the Word in 1Corinthians 2:14, I see that I am told that those without the Spirit cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God ..... for they are spiritually discerned. Since we agree that we have the Spirit, one thing remains. Discernment and wisdom are gifts. So I take the Lord at His Word and pray that since I cannot recapture the 30 years I was apart from Him, would He teach me the things He thinks I should know as He had promised. I have found that it is important to keep the right proportion of prayer to study. In my case, I am weighted much heavier in the prayer and meditation department. I find that the Lord can teach much better than I can learn.

May I suggest that you relax a little and fellowship with the Lord. Thank for your labors for they have challenged and blessed many.

Lord, I thank you for the diligence of my dear sister Marilyn Agee and her tireless efforts to serve you. I am among the thousands who have been blessed by her ministry. I ask you today that you give Marilyn a time of rest from her busy schedule serving others like Martha, and instead, like Mary, let her sit at your feet and listen to your voice. Lord, I know that there is nothing she would not do to serve You, and I just ask that she allow You Lord to serve her. If, like the rich young ruler, she lacks one thing, I pray that You would show her what it is, for I know that she would withhold nothing from you. Lord, lead her in prayer to fill her with your Holy Spirit, experience your love, your presence and your truth. I ask these things in the name of Jesus, our Lord. Amen

My reply

> > Paul was not raptured, so how could the rapture be the prize

In 2 Tim. 4:7,8 Paul said, " I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day (day of the Rapture): and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing."

Paul is one of the 24 elders. I think 12 are the Israelite patriarchs, 12 are the apostles. Paul is one that Christ will bring with him, one of the "dead in Christ" who will get their resurrection bodies first. "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds" (I Thess. 4:16,17). To be a member of this group is the prize Paul won. I think the Rapture includes all that are in the Bride group up to that time, dead or alive.

I must work while there is still time. I'll get to rest in Heaven. Agape

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Re: Spaceflight Now Breaking News Magnetic fields seen 'snapping' back to the sun

Thank you, Marilyn, for the fascinating article with the dazzling satellite photos of the double anchor in the sun. Just showed the pictures to ---- (my bride of 26 years). I found myself longing for Home today. I love looking at the signs the Lord is giving us and pondering their significance and asking myself "How soon is soon?" Is it a few days, a few weeks, a few months? I have tried to tell my family and friends I do not see how it can be a few decades or a few years. Most of them do not seem to hear me. Like you I intend to be ready if Rood is right about Pentecost, and then Av 19, and every day in between too!!! I want to be with Jesus more than my next breath. The Lord enfold you and Ed in His everlasting arms of love and compassion and forgiveness. Agape

My reply

Thank you. Same for you.

I could hardly believe it when we got the first double anchor in the same place as the new star, Nova Velorum, appeared on Sivan 7, Pentecost last year. Now to see the same sign in the Sun is so exciting. No wonder the Lord said to watch. I got tickled when I thought about all the talk about the magnetic fields snapping back and not one word about the double anchor shape in their pictures. It don't mean a thing to them, but it does to me. Agape

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Re: Double anchor at the Sun
Great Scot, what a picture! Perhaps the dbl anchor will occur soon on the moon. We must be very close to His return...I am so, so ready. Thanks for sending the web, it made my day, too.

It will make my day when I get my copy of the Orginal Bible!!! I have waited a long time for it. In His Love

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Re: The hour is at hand
I do not remember if I had seen this yet on your site, so I am sending it to you to confirm that you know about it. The Mark of the Beast has indeed arrived. It is called "Digital Angel." You can see it at:

I foresee that it will initially be imposed on convicts and probationary ex-convicts, on mental defectives, on all military personnel, and all "security-type" government employees. After that all government employees get it, then all government contractors, all government agencies. Then, in the private sector, banks and multi-national corporation employees.

What will be left? Only Christians who refuse the sign, and rebels living in the desert for whom God's grace is sufficient.

God be with you in your work, and with us all always.

My reply

Thanks. I knew about it, but what if I hadn't? I'd sure want to know. It is good to have the URL posted. There may be some who do not know about it.

Don't miss the Sun sign. I added the picture to the others on the Home Page. It is also on P & C 547. God bless. Agape

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What is the world going to be like after the Great Tribulation and such? After the Earth is recreated again, will our life be like it is right now, except with world peace? I'm just curious, because I don't know if I want to go with the Pre-Trib Rapture. It's kind of like theCity of Angels thing...I want to find that girl that's out there and to have a love in my life, someone to hold and stuff. And if I have to miss the Rapture to do that, so be it...unless we get another chance for that stuff after the recreation. If you can understand my dilemna, and if there is an answer in the Bible for this, please let me know. I need to know whether we will spend all of our time in the New World praying and praising God, which would be good, or if we also get some time on the side for other endeavours, and for learning and such. After all, we do have all of eternity. Thank you, and God Bless.

My reply

Ours is a heavenly home, not Earthly. I believe that we will come back with Christ, help in setting up the millennial government, and then go home. If our duties after that require that we be on Earth, we can travel back and forth.

Heb. 12:25 warns, "SEE THAT YE REFUSE NOT him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven."

An eternity is a long time to be sorry you turned down the Lord's call. What are you going to tell the Lord? that you care for a girl more than you care for Him? Will he reward you for that? Are you planning to join the ranks of those "that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come" (Mt. 22:3)? or those that were told to "come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise" (Mt. 22:4,5)?

I don't know about you, but I'll go when called; the Lord means everything to me. He is first in my life. I want to be in the Bride group.

Here is what you would have to look forward to. Lu. 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant (the unwise one) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (cut him off), and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. That is, I think, 2300 days of the Tribulation. Mt. 24:51 shows what you will do. It adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH." You would need a supply of Kleenex. Agape

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I don't regularly attend church. I went yesterday, to a Methodist church. At one point, everybody got up and went to the front and had some bread and wine, or juice or something, representing the body and blood of Christ. I know that the catholics do this too. I declined, because I read somewhere that this is actually a bad thing to do. Like praying to saint Christopher, etc. When I read this quite a while back, it wasn't an issue, and I guess I didn't pay very close attention. Do you have any thoughts on this, or could you perhaps point me in the right direction in scripture, so that I can make an informed decision? I refuse to do something simply because it is tradition. Thanks in advance.

My reply

We are not to take communion unless we have confessed our sins, but otherwise, it is the Lord's command. The bread and wine are symbolic.

Here is what I Cor. 11:23-29 says, " I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."

It is a good reminder that we should confess our sins too. I think that if we are in fellowship with God, we should partake of communion. Agape

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The "true" third secret of Fatima predicts EXACTLY what you have been saying about moral collapse of the Catholic church.

Excerpts from the FWD follow. See original article for the whole story. Telling secrets on the Vatican Controversy erupts over release of final Fatima mystery By Jon E. Dougherty,

A Catholic priest who says he has seen the original text of the "third secret" of Fatima disputes the official interpretation of the secret released by the Vatican....

Rev. Dr. Gommar A. De Pauw, founder of the Catholic Traditionalist Movement, told WorldNetDaily earlier this week that while attending the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council -- held between 1962 and 1965 -- he was shown a copy of the third secret....

"That text -- which I accepted as authentic -- was totally different from what they are coming up with now," De Pauw said.

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Re: How my heart is singing with joy!
Oh how my heart is singing with the Joy of the Holy Spirit! I am the man in Canada who has seen many rainbows with my wife and children.

To each and every one of the people who have responded to my numerous rainbow observations, in 1997, on March 11, 2000, and the double, triple and quadruple ones both of precipitation and of the sun; THANK YOU ALL for responding to my sightings and sharing your own observations. Especially thanks to you Marilyn for posting my writings, and especially thanks to the people who wrote in P&C 545. Why am I so Joyous? Because I have had the opportunity to GLORIFY OUR MOST SUPREME FATHER IN HEAVEN, THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. I am nothing more than a servant of the Lord. What an indescribable feeling to have been used by Jehovah Elohim to share the signs in the sky with all the other believers. HALLELUJAH AND BLESS THE LORD! Agape love to all the Spirit Filled Believers!

My reply

Add to that the Sun sign, another double anchor. No wonder He said to watch. Agape

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FWD: hill73.htm, Alas Babylon, on 5 Doves, by David Hill...

My reply

...David wrote:
> > As far as the end of the tribulation goes, as of right now, I am of the persuasion that the trib will end in 2,006, not in 2,007.

I don't see how. Just taking into consideration one thing, that there are 7 months (Eze. 39:12) between Tishri 1 and Nisan 1 in the year of the Second Advent rules out some years. That year must be a Jewish leap year. The Jewish 5766 (2005/2006) is not a leap year. Neither is 5767 (2006/2007).

Tishri 1, 5768 (2007/2008), the Feast of Trumpets, begins a leap year. It is 7 months to the following Nisan 1, when I expect the Second Advent on the first day of the first month (Eze. 29:17,21) of the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Year.

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Well, it is me again (---). I was thinking about the possible outcomes of events going on-with the apparent September 13th deadline with or without a peace agree-ment; the Palestinians are going to declare their own state (I myself am not betting on any peaceful settlement in the next 2 months). I suppose this could result in either a great war; or a limited series of events along certain hot-spots on the Israeli borders. Before this-or immediately after; the United Nations; being asked by Arafat among others to help broker a peace deal could bring about the final confirmation of the peace deal of the last 7 years; and therefore the Rapture COULD be any day now. Still, I have to wonder- if we are off on what a generation means--since it could mean other than 40 years-like the lifetime of an individual...I hate do cause any stress for you but still; if your calculations are off it will be many years later when the Battle of Armageddon and the timing of many intervening events from the Abomination of Desolation until the time of the Return of Christ occur. It could be many years that the stumbling block of Jerusalem occurs; and I don't know if WAR WILL CONTINUE UNTIL THE END means until the end of the Age of Grace- or from the beginning until the end of the Tribulation period. It is just that for so many years the same conflicts have been going on--and the until the Rapture occurs the day is being held back for that one person to rule the world. I just don't want to be one--to set up hopes which will be dashed in the Spring of 2001 which seems to be your final deadline for when the Tribulation will begin. Well-many predictions have failed--and with less than a year left I just wonder if it is worth thinking of reinterpreting some stuff before it seems like egg is on your face... I don't really get it all myself--why He hasn't come back by now. So don't look at this as a personal vendetta or something-and if you feel it isn't God's will to pulblish this you can write me privately and not post this...or not respond at all. I just wanted to say-that I will be there anyway-even after Spring 2001 if He has not come.. You may find a lot of people will not listen to you but I will be there if you wish to write...if He hasn't come by then.

Well-I hope He comes sooner than later...God bless

My reply

Way back, when you first wrote me, you sounded exactly as you do now. Have you made any progress in your Bible study during these years?

Have you read Pro and Con 546? On it is THE RAPTURE and THE 70th WEEK, by Rabbi Reuben ben Gershom Goossens. He is a Messianic Jew and knows Hebrew. He wrote, "
Without doubt, we are living in urgent times, for the Lord's return for the Bride is imminent. He gave us signs, like Israel’s restoration to the land and Jerusalem. The Lord God spoke about these times, by using the word "Generation", back in Psalms and in the New Testament.

"You will arise and have mercy on Zion (Jerusalem), for the time to favour her, yes, the set time, has come (the people and the city re-united). For Your servants (The children of Israel) take pleasure in her stones, and show favour to her dust … When the Lord shall build up Zion He shall appear in His glory … This shall be written for the Generation to come" Psalms 102:13-14,16&18.

This generation has witnessed Israel‘s re-establishment in 1948, and her restoration to Zion, the city of Jerusalem in 1967, we know with assurance that "the set time has come."...In Hebrew, the words "Generation to come" is ---- - "Le'Dor Acharon" which literally means "the Last Generation." It is for that very reason we, the faithful must teach the blessed truth of the Word of God, to the Churches and to the world, Jew and Gentile, for we are living in the "last generation", before the Lord Y’Shua comes for His Bride...."
I agree. I firmly believe that we are living in the times of "the Last Generation" before the return of Christ at the Second Advent. Determining what you think on this issue is what puts you on first base in figuring when end-time events will take place. Otherwise, you are drifting at sea without oar or rudder, at the mercy of the wind.

In 30 AD, Jesus told the Pharisees, "All these things shall come upon THIS GENERATION" (Mt. 23:36). They did, 40 years later, in 70 AD. He showed you that "this generation" means 40 years. I for one, believe the Lord. I don't say that well it might mean 70 years. I take him at his word. To me, he means 40 years.

Why do you think he kept the Israelites in the wilderness 40 years while one generation died off? The number 40 means testing and probation. That is why Jesus was tested in the wilderness 40 days. It is why Saul ruled 40 years, why David ruled 40 years, and why Solomon ruled 40 years. Out of that testing, only David earned the right to rule again during the Millennium. Agape

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...You had also posed the question alluding to the pole reversals recorded in the ocean floor lava flows being caused when the moon was scooped out of the ocean floor and the core was traveling at a different speed (and direction) than the crust. I think you are correct that this event would cause that phenomenon. There would be massive volcanic eruptions with such an event. You should also have a pole reversal happening every half rotation of the crust with a hit 90 degrees from the previous direction of the rotation of the earth with the core continuing to rotate as before. There is physical evidence that has been pointed out that it looks like the equator used to be where the ridge of mountains are now that go through our Rocky Mountains and on down into South America and circle the earth! The inclination of the earth could be seen as another result. One of my favorite science questions for youth is if we (in North America) are closer to the sun in summer or in winter. Of course the answer is we (in the Northern Hemisphere) are closest to the sun in winter in the earth's elliptical orbit. The temperature difference is all due to inclination causing more or less direct sunlight.

Well I wrote more than I mean't too. God Bless and Thanks! Agape

My reply

Thanks for this information.

> > The inclination of the earth could be seen as another result.

It makes me wonder what hit Uranus. It travels on its side. Strange. Agape

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Re: A verse for you!
I was reading the latest pro and con page and saw that you were talking about Christ being related to rain. I came across this verse not to long after. It fits so well with what is going on right now.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. Agape

My reply

It seems that James 5:7 would indicate summer. The rains of Tishri and Nisan would be over....Agape

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6:1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.


***From Marilyn: Yes.


5:3 Therefore will he give them(ISRAEL) up, until the time(END OF 2 DAYS) that she (HEAVENLY JERUSALEM,see book of Galatians,'Jerualem above ,which is the mother of us all ' ) which travaileth(see Rev. ch. 12 re the male child being caught up )hath brought forth: then (after 2 days) the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

5:4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. ( AT THE START OF THE 3RD DAY, WHEN ISRAEL SHALL BE RAISED UP AND LIVING IN HIS SIGHT, SEE HOSEA 6:1,2)

My reply

Here is the way I understand Hos. 5:15-6:3.

Christ, YHVH of hosts, the Redeemer (Isa. 41:4; 44:6), says in Hos. 5:15, "I (First Advent) will go and return to my PLACE, till they acknowledge their offence (the Crucifixion, 30 AD), and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early."

His PLACE is Heaven. Jn. 14:1-4 says, " Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a PLACE for you. And if I go and prepare a PLACE for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And WHITHER I GO YE KNOW, and the way ye know." At that time, in this solar system, they knew of the Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn.

As Hosea 6:1-3, Israel is talking. They say, "Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days (2000 years) will he revive us: in the third day (3rd millennium) he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight (fulfilled in 1948) . Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD (the Six-Day War made it possible to figure out when the Second Advent would be): his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth."

I think he came as the former rain (Tishri 1) at the First Advent and will come as the latter rain (Nisan 1) at the Second Advent. Joel 2:23 says, "Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month." When no day number is given, we are to understand the first day of the month for the word for month is also the word for the new moon.

Psa. 72:6 says, "He shall come down LIKE RAIN upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth." De. 11:14 says, "I will give you the rain of your land in HIS DUE SEASON, the first rain and the latter rain." Jer. 5:24 says, "Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in HIS SEASON: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks (shabua, sevened) of the harvest." Dr. Tabor said this is really, "He keeps for us Shavuot (Pentecost), appointed for the harvest."

Eze. 29:17 sets the month and day: "in the first month, in the first day of the month." That is Nisan 1 for Eze. 45:18 says, "In the first month, in the first day of the month," then v. 21 says, "In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, he shall have the passover." Then v. 21 says, "In that day (Nisan 1) will I cause the horn (king) of the house of Israel to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth (Word, Logos) in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD."

Job 37:6 says, "For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain (the former rain), and to the great rain of his strength" (the latter rain). Agape

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