Pro and Con 553

Posted 7-15-00

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Congratulations on your new "links 2 go" award!

My reply

Thanks. That was a big surprise to me. They said that I'm #15 out of 50. I liked the links I tried when I went to their site. I want to go back and try some more. Agape

Found on the Web

***From Marilyn: I found this interesting info on some astronomy site, mailed it to myself, thinking the URL would be recorded. If so, I can't find it. What caught my eye was "due to a fragment of the Vela supernova." VELA, the sails of the ship ARGO, is where the Anchor Cross sign is now found. SUNSPOTS AND SOLAR FLARES FROM VARIOUS VIEWPOINTS, by William Hutton, 7-11-00 ...Prehistoric Solar Conflagrations? Both D. Allen and J. DeLair (Cataclysm!, 1997, Bear and Co., Santa Fe), and P. LaViolette (Earth Under Fire, 1997, Starlane Pubs., Schenectady) have brought together a wealth of geological and anthropological information which they interpret to show that around 12,600 B.P. (years Before the Present), the Earth experienced several catastrophic destructions. Allen and DeLair conclude that the destructions were due to a fragment of the Vela supernova, which exploded around 13,000 B.P. They say that this fragment careened through our solar system 400 years later, around 12,600 years ago, disturbing various other planets as well as Earth. LaViolette, however, believes that the evidence of catastrophic alterations to Earth points to a "solar conflagration event." He relates the strong global warming that began around 14,650 B.P., and the evidence of wild swings in Earth's geomagnetic field, to the arrival of a galactic superwave that caused huge flares to erupt from the Sun. These flares may have occurred off and on until about 12,700 B.P., after which the Sun quieted down until now. The basis of LaViolett's hypothesis lies mainly in his working backward from research by N. Mörner on magnetic signatures in dated layers of a sediment core from Gothenberg, Sweden. In 1977, Mörner published a now famous paper in Quaternary Research entitled "The Gothenburg Magnetic Excursion." Mörner's core data record a 180š flip in Earth's geomagnetic pole around 12,700 B. P. Such a flip could be the product of extremely strong solar-flare activity. And this suggested to LaViolette that solar flares were responsible for burning the Earth and melting the ice sheets, although melting of the continental glaciers actually began in the central U.S. around 18,500 years ago, some 6,000 years earlier. LaViolette says that the history of the global conflagration has been passed down in the survival myths of many peoples. He also provides evidence that the intensity and direction of Earth's magnetic field "fluctuated irregularly from about 15,800 to 14,200 years ago. A particularly major geomagnetic excursion occurred around 14,200 B. P., when the Earth's north magnetic pole abruptly flipped southward to point to an equatorial mid-Pacific location for around 10 to 50 years." More huge solar flares are implied for those times....

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Re: Daniel 927 -
This fits prophecy better than anything I have seen!! I used to think that confirming the covenant with RABim, meaning many, fulfilled it, but this is a literal fulfillment if all Israel confirms it!! Puts them in a much riskier position Biblically speaking, too, as they are ALL giving away their own land.

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This weekend the Moon, the Sun and the Earth will align for the longest total lunar eclipse in 140 years. The best places to see the event are in and around the Pacific Ocean, including Hawaii and Australia. Observers along the west coast of North America will be able to see a partial eclipse just before the Moon sets on Sunday morning.

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Re: Revealing of Anti-Christ?
IsraelWire: "The use of the referendum process, as proposed for approval of a possible peace agreement with the Palestinians, represents a further departure from a democratic form of government. So writes Dr. Dan Avnon, a Hebrew University political scientist. Dr. Avnon told Arutz-7 today that Israel's drift towards a more authoritarian system began with the passing of the Direct Elections law for the Prime Minister in 1992. 'In a stable parliamentary system,' Avnon said, 'a referendum would not represent a major threat. But given the direct elections law, a referendum would lead to the further decentralization of the popularly-elected Knesset as the heart of the political system.' Prime Minister Barak's recent declarations that despite his lack of Knesset support, he was elected by an 'overwhelming majority' of the nation and will take an Israel-PA deal 'straight to the people' are technically correct under the present system, explained Dr. Avnon. 'In my opinion, however, he is working with an internal logic that is warped and leads to the decline of citizens' confidence in Israel's parliamentary system as an accurate representation of the net desires of the nation.' In his article, Avnon explains that the interest of those in an authoritarian regime is to groom a public that is indifferent to, and alienated from, anything connected with democratic political participation..."

Daniel 9:27: He will confirm a covenant with many for one `seven.' In the middle of the `seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. "

I'm just wondering if this new twist on the "peace process" makes the whole thing relate to the "covenant with many"....Barak said he would take the agreement (or covenant) "straight to the people".... interesting.....watching and waiting.

My reply

I have thought that "he shall confirm the covenant with MANY for one week" of Dan. 9:27 referred to the nations in the UN, or OWG. Yours is a new idea to me. hmmm. You know, it could apply to both the people of Israel and the OWG. Agape

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More on peace talks
Late last night, while watching Special Report with Brit Hume on Fox news, there was a very interesting interview with Charles Krauthammer of the Washington Post. When asked what he believed was going on inside the talks, he said that he believed that "the Israelis have come in with concessions the likes of which the Palestinians have never seen". He believed there was a "1 in 3" chance that a "permanent" peace treaty could come from the talks. He said Barak was willing to give up parts of the west bank that for 35 years the labor party said they could not give up because of security concerns. The particular strip of land which he was referring to was a "strip along the Jordan river" which is "the route of invasion for tanks from the east...Krauthammer said that Barak is willing to give Arafat "complete sovereignty" over parts of the "old walled city" including "Complete control over the wailing wall and the [temple mount]." Krauthammer said that the Israelis might accept such drastic circumstances if the deal which came from Camp David stated "The war is over and the Palestinians will never press claims again". He said the offer that Barak has on the table is one that Arafat "cannot refuse" in Hume's words. He also said there is sure to be violence if the talks fail.

He ended by saying that if the talks are successful and Barak's concessions are accepted, the existence of the State of Israel is in danger....He envisioned another "Final Battle" with the Arab states and a defensively compromised Israel.

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Re: UN World Religion Council
FWD: U.N. plans to bring together 1,000 world religious leaders By Larry Witham, THE WASHINGTON TIMES A global summit bringing 1,000 religious leaders to the United Nations will disclose some participants next week, good news to U.N. officials eager to plan security and protocol for the unprecedented Aug. 28-29 event.

The "working list" to be issued Tuesday will not include personages such as Pope John Paul II and probably not the Dalai Lama...

But the Vatican's Cardinal Francis Arinze, a Nigerian, will make the trek to New York City as will spiritual leaders from countries such as Peru who have never before left their native soils....

The Millennium World Peace Summit of Religious and Spiritual Leaders is organized by an "independent coalition" of interfaith leaders...

The Millennium World Peace Summit of Religious and Spiritual Leaders opens Aug. 28 with an afternoon procession into the General Assembly and sessions all the next day.

It moves for two more days to the nearby Waldorf Astoria hotel.

The summit was announced last October after "conversations" between media mogul Ted Turner and U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, who will address the session of "the world's pre-eminent" spiritual leaders....

The religious leaders are expected to issue a Declaration for World Peace and agree to some form of a permanent International Advisory Council of Religious and Spiritual Leaders.

Mr. Turner, the summit's honorary chairman, has promised full live coverage by CNN.

The chairman of the top advisory board is Canadian businessman Maurice Strong, who ran the U.N. Earth Summit in 1992, and a vice president of the summit's executive counsel is former Sen. Timothy Wirth, Colorado Democrat, who now heads Mr. Turner's grant-giving United Nations Foundation.

Other vice presidents are Gillian Sorenson, assistant to Mr. Annan, and the Rev. James Morton, an Episcopal priest with the Interfaith Center of New York.

A midtown Manhattan office near the United Nations has been the hub of the yearlong effort inviting notable people from 12 world traditions, from the monotheistic faiths to Zoroastrianism, indigenous religions and Confucianism.

Funding comes from 11 sponsors, which include the Better World Fund of Mr. Turner and the Templeton, Carnegie and Rockefeller Brothers foundations....

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FWD: MFerris on Rapture Ready
Dan. 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week..."

Today I was reading that Barak was talking about using a referendum to confirm a peace treaty that he works out. Having a referendum sounds exactly like confirming the agreement "with the many"
The nation of Israel will vote in a referendum on the issue of whether or not to confirm the treaty that Barak comes up with. This whole referendum thing seems to fit Daniel 9:27 in an amazingly accurate way. It would seem that the tribulation period is about to begin.
Actually, there is a possibility that the treaty now being worked out will be for a period of 7 years, as predicted in Dan. 9:27. This is because all of the devisive issues may not be agreed on at this time, and so a 7 year partial agreement might be concluded at this time. The understanding may be that during the 7 year period the parties will attempt to come up with an agreement that resolves all of the issues. ALSO, Daniel 9:27 seems to hint that part of the agreement will be that Israel is allowed to rebuild the temple.

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Meteorite hits western Queensland: Source: AAP7-10-00

Residents of the western Queensland town of Windorah were today on the lookout for the crash site of a meteorite that fell to earth yesterday.

Queensland police senior constable Mick Hewitt said residents reported an explosion for a 100km radius around Windorah.

"We heard and saw a smoke trail across the sky before a loud bang that rattled houses and shook windows," he said....

Snr Const Hewitt said property owners in the district also reported cotton like material falling from the sky shortly after the crash.

"We've had it confirmed there was a large amount of meteor activity from Emerald to Roma yesterday," he said....

My outgoing email

Re: Birth of Yeshua during Succoth
I was looking this over again and noticed another place that some extra days were added, the 8 days of Chanukah:

> > If you calculate from the twenty-fifth of Kislev and add eight days for the festival of Chanukah plus nine months for Mary's (Miryam) pregnancy, this will bring you around the time of the festival of Sukkot, or Tishrei 15.

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> > you misqouted the bible M Agee. ezekiel 29 does not read likeyou put it he is what you have:
Eze. 29:17,21: "in the FIRST MONTH, in the FIRST DAY OF THE MONTH... IN THAT DAY will I cause the horn of the house of Israel to BUD FORTH, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD."

> > when I read it from the bible it says this. Ezekiel 29:17 in the first day of the first month the word of the lord came to me saying son of man NEbuchadnezzar king of Babylon casued his army to serve.... then all the way down in verse 21 it simply says In that day will I cause the horn of Israel of the house Of Israel to bud forth But you made it a run on sentence thus you TWISTED its meaning... to suit your interpretaion and misquoted it.. deceptive.. becareful how you do this you might miss the right understanding of the scriptures.. even if thats how you might interpret its meaning you can change the sentecnes around like that...

> ***I plainly said it was verse 17 and 21. I put in an ellipse (...) to show the break between the two verses. That should be clear to you.

its still worded wrong and that is not what its means... its out of context.. if someone to read that just by looking at it and were to read it you would think thats what it says.. its obvious we are not going to see eye to eye so lets not be dividid on the thing thats most important and thats loving Yshua.... these things cause division in the body its not so important as to which day he was bon to me (its sukkot) the holy spirit has showed me this... but again lets not get off track Yshua is comming soon and there is much happening my mother who lives in Israel has been letting me in on whats going on over there.. I will keep you posted. blessings

My reply

Of course, the main thing is faith in Yeshua, and he is coming soon. However, before we leave the subject of his birth, I have one suggestion you might want to mull over. The following statement was in some of the material you sent me.

> > Sukkot is a required- feast, whereupon all males are to appear before the Lord in Jerusalem at this time.

If Joseph was supposed to be in Jerusalem for Tabernacles, what was he doing in Bethlehem on Tishri 15? Why wasn't he in Jerusalem dwelling in his booth?

Lu. 2:1-5 tells us that they were in Bethlehem "To be taxed." Tishri 1 being the first day of the civil year, maybe they had to be taxed before the new year began. At 6:00 PM, Tishri 1 would begin. I think Jesus was born that night. This way, Joseph would not be disobeying the law in being at Bethlehem when he should have been at Jerusalem. This taxing would also explain why there was no room at the inn. There would be many others there to be taxed.

I appreciate your keeping me posted on new developments. Agape

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Are you a Preterest or a Futurest? I could not tell,with all the date setting and talk about 2000. It seems obvious to me that if flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of god,then our bodies will be left behind in the grave or wherever. So where do we get the idea that the Christians will all vanish, body and all?

Do you really believe that the Bible says we will get out of this world alive? (If Christ should come again) We will all be changed and I assume that means from this body to a spiritual one, or when we die.(in our own order) My understanding of all this is about the resurection and not a rapture. Thanks

My reply

> > Are you a Preterest or a Futurest ? I could not tell,with all the date setting and talk about 2000.

I am not a Preterest. They think Revelation all took place in 70 AD. Does 2000 AD sound like 70 AD to you?

> > our bodies will be left behind in the grave...So where do we get the idea that the Christians will all vanish, body and all?

I Thess. 4:14-17 says, " if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus (the dead in Christ) will God bring with him (they are in Heaven with Him now). For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (Old English for precede) them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first (those that come with Christ will get their resurrection bodies): Then WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

> > Do you really believe that the Bible says we will get out of this world alive?

Of course. If the Bible says it, I believe it.

> > of all this is about the resurection and not a rapture

It is about both resurrection and Rapture. The Rapture will happen as Gen. 5:24 says, "And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for GOD TOOK HIM." Elijah was taken up alive too. II Ki. 2:11 says, "And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah WENT UP by a whirlwind into heaven."

There has to be a Rapture. Lu. 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Those that escape before the first seal is broken are "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation." They are seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9. Agape

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Re: I simply must share something with you :)
I have been reading in several posts lately how people are seeing strange rainbows and doves. Well I must tell you about the double rainbow I saw. Now please understand I saw these BEFORE I know about your site. Which I found quite by accident, while looking for things on the web having to do with the rapture. It was near the middle of this May. I was driving up the Great Highway along coast here in San Francisco heading towards the Cliff House restaurant (you may know the stretch I'm talking about, the one with all the street lights). It was rather early say 8:00 to 9:00am. The sun was to my right (east). Entirely around the sun was a perfect rainbow, then above that rainbow there was another going down one side to the ground and then the other side to the ground (a full normal rainbow). I distinctly remember thinking to my self "my gosh I'm 46 years old and I never seen anything like THAT before". It was really impressive. There is a paved walking and biking path along the Great Highway also to my right and there were other people standing along this path looking at the same seen. Again I thought to my self "Good! at least other people are seeing this too, it's not my imagination". Now this happened BEFORE I knew of your site or read of the other encounters.

Then after finding the site and reading of the post it popped into mind. I started reading about the sightings of 'doves'. Well I have never seen a dove and knew I wouldn't here. I was feeling left out. After seeing such a great set of rainbows I thought for sure I won't make the Rapture if I don't see a dove.

But here we have plenty of sea gulls, pigeons and crows but no doves. I was keeping my eyes open however, -just in case-. Then last Tue. morning with nothing to do I went to the early showing of Mission Impossible II. And low and behold, there is a seen where a wooden door opens with fire on either side and through the door, to safety, flies a white dove. I was stunned. "could this count?" I thought. If so, I'm here to tell you, the Lord DOES work in mysterious -and sometimes funny- ways.

I left that theater with the biggest grin anyone could have... I feel complete... :-) Sincerely In Christ

My reply

Thanks for sharing this with me. The rainbow you describe may be what they call a sundog. You are the third to see one and email me about it. One man was in western Canada. The other was in Alaska. I have never seen one myself.

I don't know about the dove though. That might not count. :-) Agape

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FWD: Of Interest, In Him:
The Amen, by David Hill-7-11-00

Rev 3 "These things saith the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the beginning of the creation of God"

Here, Yeshuah is specifically refering to Himself as the counterpart of the Faithfull Witness in the Heavens, The Moon. This is not coincidence or accident, but intentional, for the Scriptures are Inspired by the other Witness of the Holy Spirit, and this is proven by His reference to Himself as THE AMEN.

This is really an interesting word, and is where AMANA comes from. Perhaps some of you might recognize this word, for it is used in Songs 4 (which I believe is portraying the coming Rapture), with the words, "Come with Me from Lebanon ( "WHITE" same as Levanah - The Moon and a type of the temple), my SPOUSE, from Lebanon: Look from the tops of AMANA..." You see, this word, which our Lord probably uttered in Hebrew, has four overriding concepts. It of course means AMEN and also FAITFUL AND TRUE, which is brought out here. However, it also has connotations of COVENANT (what is being faithfully witnessed) and also it means a FIXED OR APPOINTED TIME!!! In the letter to the Laodaceans, in which HE mentions HIS SOON RETURN AND THE RAPTURE, He calls our attention, with the strongest word picture available, TO THE SET TIME OF THE FULL MOON!!!

Now, all of this is kinda a moot point, if we don't know for sure the proper season. Some say the Wheat Harvest (MJ and me) and others the Fruit Harvest. So, how do we resolve this enigma? Well, lets go to the last words of our Savior before He left the disciples.

"When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the TIMES or the SEASONS, which the Father hath PUT in his own power."

Now, remember that assuredly our Lord spoke in Hebrew, using specific WORD PATTERNS which had already been established (santified) in the Old Testament ('If I have told you earthly things and you don't understand, how will you when I tell you heavenly things?'). And, remember that those word patterns are probably deluted in translation. Hence, my translation of our Saviors words, in accordance with established word patterns would be, "It is not for you to know THE SET TIMES OR SEASONS, which Abba has Ordained."

Now, the first thing that must needs be pointed out is that this was spoken to the apostles, two thousand years ago, and it is erroneous to believe that the Church that exists shortly before these things occur, won't have them revealed to them. "The Lord God does nothing without revealing it to His servants the Prophets." At that point in time, Authority for the Kingdom was being taken away from the nation and given to the Church. At the Rapture, the Authority for the Kingdom will be RESTORED to Israel, and at the Return the Kingdom itself will be restored to Israel, or as Daniel says, 'the [set] time came for the saints to possess the kingdom. In other words, this process occurs in TWO STAGES, and it seems apparent that those SET TIMES AND SEASONS are being revealed to God's Servants in the Church.

Now, also notice that our Savior, The Faithfull and True Witness, in refering to the restoration of the Kingdom to Israel (which we already know will occur in the two stages of the Rapture and Return), brought to our attention that this restoration will occur in at least TWO SEASONS AND SET TIMES. If both the Rapture and the Return will occur during Tabernacles, He would have said SET TIMES (two separate full moons) and SEASON (tabernacles). However, by speaking of TWO DIFFERENT SEASONS and TWO DIFFERENT SET TIMES, and knowing that the Return occurs in the Season of the Fruit Harvest of Tabernacles, it leaves the Season of the Wheat Harvest appointed for the Rapture!!!

So, with the Faithfull Witness of the Moon and the Word, we can determine that the Rapture will occur at the SET TIME of the FULL MOON of the WHEAT HARVEST!!! And, again this is not setting a date, for as long as there exists no santified calender, the Months are not determined by days, but by The Full Moon.

And the Return will be at the Set Time of the Full Moon of the Fruit Harvest, and remember that there will be a Sanctified calender then, so that again, no man will be able to know the day, for that will have to be determined, at the time, by the two witnesses.

Regarding the year, each person will have to make up his own mind, whether or not the world can continue for another year without falling into the abyss.

As far as this year, we are currently in the Season of the Wheat Harvest, and the Appointed Time of the Full Moon is this weekend. Interestingly enough, this Full Moon is going to be eclipsed (a Door standing open in heaven?), starting around Sun set in the west coast of America and will be visible in totality in Asia. So, before we go running after the next Season, since there is no sanctified calender or new moon or feast day, perhaps we should let the FaithFull Witness in the Heaven give its own Testimony concerning this Season. After pouring over the Signs of the Times over the last seven years, and the Current events that we find ourselves in, and the Biblical description of those events and signs, I have come to the conclusion that this coming Full Moon would be the perfect Set Time for the Rapture of the Church. Does anyone else agree? "Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven."

And, by the way, the Old Farmers Almanac has determined that this coming eclipse occurs on THE FULL THUNDER MOON!!!

My reply

> > In the letter to the Laodaceans, in which HE mentions HIS SOON RETURN AND THE RAPTURE, He calls our attention, with the strongest word picture available, TO THE SET TIME OF THE FULL MOON!!!

Personally, I don't see that "amen" means either "FIXED OR APPOINTED TIME" or "THE SET TIME OF THE FULL MOON."

Strong's Greek 281, amen, is, firm, i.e. (fig.) trustworthy; adv. surely (often as interj. so be it):--amen, verily. The Hebrew 543, amen, says, sure, abstr. faithfulness, adv. truly:--Amen, so be it, truth.

In Thayer's Lexicon, amen is firm, faithful, surely, of a truth, truly, most assuredly, so it is, so be it. may it be fulfilled.

Strong's 548, amana, is something fixed, i.e., a covenant, an allowance:--certain portion, sure.

> > the Months are not determined by days, but by The Full Moon.

He must have forgotten that the Jewish months are determined by the New Moon, not the Full Moon, which comes in the middle of the month. Agape

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Re: synagogue of satan
However are we not as Christians adopted into Abraham whereby we cry abba Father to the Lord.

My reply

We are spiritual children of Abraham, not literal ones. In the church, there is neither Jew nor Gentile. All are one in the Body of Christ.

Gal. 3:7 says, "Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." Gal. 3:29 says, "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Col. 3:11 says, "Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all." Gal. 3:28 says, There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Agape

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Updated 7-15-00