Pro and Con 554

Posted 7-17-00

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Re: synagogue of satan
I agree with you. My whole point was that the synagogue of satan must be the jews who reject Christ. God Bless you.

My reply

You know, you are right. Thanks for teaching me something. I needed to look at it closer. Why else does Jesus change from "church" in Rev. 2:8 to "synagogue" in v. 9, and back to "churches" in v. 11. Rev. 2:9 says, "I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." Synagogue usually points to literal Jews. Acts 18:19 says, "And he (Paul) came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself entered into the synagogue, and reasoned with the Jews."

Rev. 3:9 explains, "Behold, I will MAKE THEM of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee."

Rom. 9:6 explains, "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel."

Jn. 9:22 says, " the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue." Jn.12:42 says, "among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue." Mt. 3:7 says, "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?" Mt. 23:33 says, "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"

Since Jesus called the Pharisees serpents, then their synagogues would be classed as synagogues of Satan in the Lord's eyes. To be classed as synagogues of the Lord, they would have to "confess that he was Christ." I thank God that there are many Messianic Jewish congregations today that do confess that Yeshua/Jesus was Christ. They would be classed as synagogues of the Lord.

The Complete Jewish Bible, by David H. Stern, says in the front, "Praised are you, Adonai our God, King of the universe, who gives the Torah of truth and the Good News of salvation to his people Israel and to all the peoples through his son Yeshua the Messiah, our Lord." His heart is right with the Lord on this issue. Agape

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Subject: BIBLE STUDY: Prophecy, Chronology, Doctrine - BibleInsight
Do you know anything about the word "weeks" in the 70 weeks of Daniel meaning jubilees? Also, I've heard that the 120 years of Gen. 6:3 referrers to 120 jubilees ( 120 x 50 = 6000 years). I've forwarded you a web site containing information on this.Any feedback or comments on this subject would be appreciated.

My reply

Someone nice taught me how to mail a web page to someone. In MSExplorer 5.0, click Mail, Send Page, type in the address, Send. I went to this site, let a page load, then mailed it to myself to read later. I got 8 pages that looked interesting in my Inbox where they are easy to find, read, and delete and don't clutter up my DL folder with an extra folder of images that I don't want.

I just read these and agree that the Crucifixion was on Thursday and the 490 years of Dan. 9 began in the first year of Cyrus, but disagree with a lot of other things. For instance, I think Abraham was born in 2008 AH. Therefore, he could not have entered Canaan in 2000 AH.

Re: your question. I don't think weeks means weeks of Jubilees. I don't think 120 years means 120 Jubilees. I take "Seventy weeks" in Dan. 9:24 to be 70 shabua, or 70 sevens (70 x 7 = 490 yrs).

The author of this web site thinks the 483 years (49 + 434 = 483) from the 1st year of Cyrus to the Crucifixion don't work, but they do. He also thinks "Messiah the Prince" and Messiah be cut off" (Dan. 9:25,26) do not indicate Christ, but I think they do. He said, "What is the Daniel 9:24-27 prophecy really about? Well it is not really about Jesus Christ! It is actually about the building and destruction of a city!" I'm sorry, but I had to laugh. How could a city be the Messiah the Prince? How could a city be descended from David? How could Jerusalem be born in Bethlehem. If Jerusalem's destruction in 70 AD could have saved us, there would have been no need of Christ to go through all he did. Isa. 53:1,5 says, " to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?...he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed." The arm of the LORD is not a city; it is the Lord Jesus Christ.

In The Romance of Bible Chronology, Martin Anstey found an 82-year error in the era of the Persian kings. BC 536 - 82 = BC 454. 483 - 454 + 1 because there is no zero year = 30 AD, the year of the Crucifixion.

I think the Jubilee cycle is a 49-year cycle. The 50th year is also the 1st of the next cycle, thus the Sabbatic and Jubilee years stay aligned. I did a lot of research on this to figure out for myself whether it was a 49-year or 50-year cycle. Agape

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My reply

I doubt if it ties in. Revelation was not written until 96 AD. I think Jesus was born on Tishri 1 in BC 5, that the wise men visited him in BC 3, and that Herod died soon after the lunar eclipse of Jan. 10, BC 1. That Jesus was around 2 when the wise men came makes sense, because Herod had the male children of Bethlehem 2 years old and under killed (Mt. 2:16).

There is a chance that the star that was to come out of Jacob was seen in LEO, which represents Christ as King. That was Judah's constellation, and the wise men called Jesus "KING of the Jews" (Mt. 2:2), i.e., the "Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel" (Nu. 24:17). Agape

Gems found on the Web

The Pre-Trib Rapture: http://www.
...What They Didn't Teach You in History Class
There are many groups that are trying to discredit the pre-trib rapture, primarily because they believe most of the end time events in the Bible have already taken place. By 70 AD, or the Middle Ages, they see just about all of the apocalyptic scriptures as being already fulfilled. If the book of Revelation were truly just a part of history, it would seem very difficult for me to explain away some of the current situations I see occurring around us: the rebirth of Israel, the reunification of Europe, the number of global wars that have occurred, and the development of nuclear weapons. During history class, I must have slept through the part where the teacher talked about the time when a third of the trees were burned up, 100 LB hailstones fell from the sky, and the time when the sea turned into blood (Rev 8:7-8, 16:21). I think several people would have to question their opposition to the pre- trib rapture doctrine if they knew that the evidence provided to them was based on the understanding that most tribulation prophecies have already occurred....

Armies in Fine Linen
When Jesus returns, Rev. 19:18, there is an army that follows Him riding on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. In Rev. 19:8 we are told that the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. If the saints of God are returning with Christ to wage war on the Antichrist, then it is not possible to have a post-trib rapture without us running into ourselves as we are coming and going....

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Re: Biblical men and women
Wondered if you'd post this on pros and cons.
The person who left you a message pertaining to Mary and the Catholic Church brought up some interesting verses about Mary. All through the Bible we see people who had special callings and witnessed great events. John received the Revelation of whats to come in the end-times. Moses talked to God and received the ten commandments. Ezekial saw the throne of God and the guarding Cerabium. Paul, who percecuted Christians, became a great witness to many in his time and even was stoned for his efforts. Agreeably, what Mary was chosen to do was truly special but she still was a sinner just as all these people I listed. We need to "keep our eyes on the prize". Jesus died for our sins and we have a chance for everlasting life with him if we believe this! God bless!

My reply

I agree, and forgive me for taking this chance to explain some of my thoughts. I believe that the lady that wrote me is a true Christian, regardless of what group she worships with at present. We have corresponded for quite some time. She does not believe everything that her church teaches.

There definitely is a sinister element running in the background of the church of Thyatira, for Rev. 2:24 says, "But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden." However, as you can also see, not everyone in that group can be painted with that brush. The ones who have actually accepted Christ as their own personal Saviour get this message from Christ: "But that which ye have already hold fast till I come" (Rev. 2:25).

Some people quote Rev. 18:4, "Come out of her, my people" as if it applies today, but I believe that is the instruction for AFTER the Rapture, after the ones accounted worthy escape in the Rapture (Lu. 21:36). Rev. 2:25's "hold fast till I come" is BEFORE the Rapture. I Tim. 2:15 says, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

There are many denominations. Some teach conflicting things, so some of those things must be wrong. However, we are to love the brethren (believers)--period. We should just try to make sure the ones we have contact with have accepted Christ as their own personal Saviour and don't just think that joining a church, any church, is like boarding a train that will finally get them to Heaven. Our faith has to be more personal than that. We have to exercise our will and make a conscious decision for Christ.

> > Agreeably, what Mary was chosen to do was truly special but she still was a sinner

Very true. In Lu. 1:47, she said, "my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour."

> > We need to "keep our eyes on the prize". Jesus died for our sins and we have a chance for everlasting life with him if we believe this!

I guess you mean this prize is eternal life. Once we have that, there is another prize Paul was working for, to be part of the Pre-Trib Rapture and not be a "castaway" (I Cor. 9:27). I take "castaway" to refer to the foolish virgin of Mt. 25 or the Laodicean of Rev. 3:14f at the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture.

Lu. 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant (the foolish one) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers" (2300 days of the Tribulation). Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

This is the group we want to avoid falling into. Let us watch and walk worthy. Eph. 4:3 also says, "Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace." Agape

Incoming email

Re: Temples burned on tenth of Av.
Reading PC 551, I find that both previous Temples were burned on the 10th of Av. That is, they ceased to be here on earth on that date. Since WE are the Temple of God now, would it seem that WE might cease to be on earth on the same date? Did I read this properly?

Also, if many Christians are imprisoned on August 1st (ten days prior to 10 Av), that could be a good sign from the Lord. The French are talking about arresting Christians and saying that Christians, particularly Baptists, are a dangerous cult that uses brain washing on French people. What do you make of this? Also, I want to let you know that your efforts to enlighten hostile readers is not wasted. I get a great deal of knowledge and comfort out of your Christian replies. Keep up the good work, and God Bless You.

My reply

Thanks for your kind words.

Yes, you read it properly. Since we are the temple of the Holy Spirit, Av 10 seems possible from that angle. However, it bothers me that fire was involved both times the temple was destroyed. Fire fell the same day Lot left Sodom (Lu. 17:29). I think Elijah and the days of Lot represented the second Rapture. Fire was associated with them both. The first Rapture seems to be represented by Enoch and the days of Noah, where no fire was involved. Both Enoch and Noah are said to have walked with God.

Since we are called wild olive trees (Rom. 11:17), there might be a chance that the 10 days of Rev. 2:10 might run from Av 10 (Aug. 11) to Av 19 (Aug. 20), when the dove brought Noah an olive leaf (Gen. 8:11). I think blocks of days are counted by inclusive reckoning. I have read that the 8 days for a male child to be circumcised are counted inclusively. Let's just stay ready and watch. Things seem to be heading toward a climax soon. Agape

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Re: The Rapture on July 19
I am sure that you are aware of the fact that it has been stated that Pentecost was actually on July 9th and not on June 10th as was commonly celebrated. Also there has been a prophecy (I believe I heard it on Sid Roth's broadcast) that the Lord would begin to reverse the state of the World and that would be demonstrated in the rapture. The Lord Jesus was Raptured, or caught up, 10 days prior to the start of the Church and likewise when we are taken out it will be 10 days after the anniversary of the start of the Church on the true date of Pentecost. If this is true then the rapture would take place on the 19th of July which is one day after the sceduled completion of the Israel-Palestinian Peace talks where the state of Jerusalem is being planned out. Personally I believe that those peace talks will be a huge failure and will result in an armed conflict that will bring the entire middle east, led by Magog or Russia, against Israel. I do not believe that the rapture will happen during a fall feast because I do not believe that Jesus, fully completed the feast of Pentecost. Jesus as the Head of the Body of Christ was caught up during the season of Pentecost and I believe that the Body of Christ or the Church will be caught up during the season of Pentecost as well. This position is a complete change for me because just last fall, I believed that the rapture would happen in the fall, but I am open to the truth of God's word and will not let pride keep me from the truth. Please comment on the July 19th Rapture date as well as anything else that I have stated. Thank You very much for your obedience to the Will of God for your life, you will have great reward in heaven I am sure.

My reply

Pentecost on July 9 is iffy because it is not in the spring.

> > The Lord Jesus was Raptured, or caught up, 10 days prior to the start of the Church and likewise when we are taken out it will be 10 days after the anniversary of the start of the Church on the true date of Pentecost.

Why would it be 10 days after Pentecost? Agape

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Re: Rapture Timetable
I have been reading you page for some time and understand your reasoning for a generation being 40 years (and 120 days?) and the fulfillment of the fig tree putting forth leaves in the six-day war June 1967. Having said all that, do you believe that the rapture, if you believe in a pre-trib rapture, and the tribulation will (must) begin this year in order for a generation to end by 2007 and still fulfill Jesus' prophecy that "this generation will not pass away till all these things are fulfilled?" I see no other possible scenarios for the tribulations to begin any other time than this year, specifically Rosh shashanah, and still be completed by 2007 and still fulfill Daniel's final seven years of tribulation.

My reply

I'm human and can be wrong, but I'll tell you the way it looks to me. I believe there will be a Pre-Trib Rapture for those that are accounted worthy to escape (Lu. 21:36). The shortened Tribulation is 2300 days (Dan. 8:14), so I expect the shortened Tribulation to start on the Feast of Weeks in 2001 and end on the Feast of Trumpets in 2007.

I also think that the 2300 days is "for the elect's sake" (Mt. 24:22). The Pre-Wrath Rapture catches up the elect of the Tribulation before noon on the Feast of Trumpets in 2007. Thus, the elect's "portion with the unbelievers" (Lu. 12:46) is only 2300 of the 2520-day 70th week of Daniel.

The full 2520 days applies to those who are not the elect. I think dominion will be taken from Satan at the Judgment of the Nations after the full 2520 days are completed.

I think Dan. 9:27 is talking about the False Prophet. The time covered in this one verse is from the beginning of the Tribulation to the Feast of Trumpets that is the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord and the Day of God's Wrath. It is also the 2300th day.

Dan. 9:27 says, "And he shall CONFIRM the covenant with many for one week (7 years): and in the midst of the week (after the two witnesses prophesy the first 1260 days) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (i.e., from the temple), and for the overspreading of abominations (idols) he shall make it (the temple) desolate, even until the consummation (of this age), and that determined (God's Wrath) shall be poured upon the desolate" (lit., desolator, i.e., False Prophet).

The next day after this age ends is the first day of the Millennium and is the Day of God's Wrath on unbelievers left on the Earth. I believe the False Prophet will be deposed on this day, and Satan, as "the eighth" of Rev. 17:11, will operate on his own until the end of Armageddon, when he will be chained.

Eze. 39:12 shows that there are 7 months between the Day of God's Wrath and the Second Advent. For 5 of those months "shall men seek death, and shall not find it" (Rev. 9:6). Agape

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Subject: synagogue of satan
Marilyn, re the email about Jews that are not Jews. I believe that a Jew is one who follows the religion of the Bible. Jesus was the fulfillment of the OT and therefore the Jewish faith. Anyone who says they are a Jew yet rejects Christ is of the synagogue of Satan. You cannot be a Jew and reject God in the flesh.

My reply

The term "Jew" may have started out as depicting an Israelite from Judah, but it came to be used to refer to an Israelite descended from Abraham through Jacob/Israel's 12 sons. Those 12 are the patriarchs of the 12 tribes of Israel.

In my mind, whether an Israelite/Jew is religious or not doesn't change the fact that he is descended from Abraham. Researchers have recently found that the similarity of the DNA of all members of this group shows that they all have a common ancestor.

If a Gentile joins a Jewish congregation, the Gentile does not become a Jew. He has joined a Jewish congregation for worship. That is all. Whether it is a Messianic congregation or not doesn't change the fact that this person was not born a Jew. Neither does the type of congregation change a Jew to a Gentile. Agape

My outgoing email

To: Mark Rouleau and Sherry Vance, whose posts were on 5 Doves Re: markr711-9.htm and sherry711.htm MarkRouleau said, "Sherry Vance posits the question to post trib and split trib believers: How do you make time for believers to go through the Bema Judgement if they are raptured at the very end of the Trib and come back immediately to earth with Christ?"

***From Marilyn: To me, there is no conflict. There are 7 Jewish months between the Pre-Wrath Rapture on Tishri 1 and the Second Advent on Nisan 1 in the Jewish Leap Year of 5768. That Rapture takes place just before the Wrath of God hits Earth. After the Day of God's Wrath, Eze. 39:12,13 says, "And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (Second Advent), saith the Lord GOD."

***I believe that there are 2 Raptures, Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath. The 1st group is seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9 before the 1st seal is broken. The 2nd group is seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:9,14 before the 7th seal is broken. I don't think those caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture come back immediately to earth with Christ.

***Here is the schedule of end-time events as I understand it.
Pre-Trib Rapture
Beginning of Tribulation/70th Week of Daniel, Feast of Weeks, Sivan 6, 5761/May 28, 2001
---God's two witnesses begin to prophesy
Middle of Tribulation, end of 1260-day ministry of Moses and Elijah
---Satan cast out of heaven down into Earth
---Satan enters into False Prophet and sits in temple "shewing himself that he is God"
---False Prophet kills Moses and Elijah, who are resurrected and raptured 3.5 days later
2300th day of Tribulation, Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, 5768/Sept. 13, 2007, in Heaven
---First day of millennial Day of the Lord
---Coronation of Christ, "given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom"
---Pre-Wrath Rapture
---Marriage of the Lamb
---Judgment Seat of Christ
---Marriage Supper of the Lamb
2300th day of Tribulation, on Earth
---Day of God's Wrath
---7 Trumpet Judgments cast on Earth
---Asteroids of Rev. 8:8 and 10 impact Earth
7 months Israel buries the dead, 1st 5 months, demons out of the abyss torment men
Second Advent, Nisan 1, 5768/Apr. 6, 2008, first day of Jewish Regnal and Sacred Year
---Sanctuary cleansed
Passover kept, Nisan 14
Feast of Unleavened Bread kept, Nisan 15, 2520th day of 70th Week of Daniel
Feast of Firstfruits kept, Nisan 16
Judgment of the Nations, dominion taken from Satan
---Armageddon begins
Armageddon ends
---Beast and False Prophet cast in Lake of Fire
---Satan chained
Millennial peace begins
New (refreshed) heavens (atmospheric) and new (refreshed) earth

Sherry Vance said: "There is another point I may as well bring up - regarding a post-trib argument: Fact: the martyred Trib saints are resurrected in the FIRST RESURRECTION at the end of the Tribulation and after the return of Christ. So, if any of the Church is on earth during the Trib, and if the Church is raptured immediately before the Second Coming of Christ, then how is it that these Tribulation believers (who are part of the "Church" according to some people's view) are resurrected after the Second Coming?"

***I don't think they are resurrected AFTER the Second Coming. I think the last rank of the First Resurrection completes the Body of Christ on the 2300th day of the Tribulation, just before the Judgment Seat of Christ, when the Wrath of God is poured out on unbelievers left on Earth. The Tribulation is shortened for the elect's sake (Mt. 24:22).

"If the Church were on earth and raptured just before the Second Coming (as post-tribulationists say) then all martyred Trib saints would be part of the Church and, therefore, have to be raised before the living believers could be translated into immortality. And, all this, according to post-tribulationists, occurs just before the Second Advent!???

"This is a MAJOR evidence that the Church must be raptured long before the end of the Tribulation and the Second Advent! Besides that, there is the argument that the Trib saints are NOT part of the Church and the Body of Christ is NOT part of the First Resurrection! Rev. clearly states that those in the First Resurrection are those who were martyred....The Church saints are the church saints, the trib saints are the trib saints - they are two different groups with two different kinds of resurrected bodies, resurrected at different TIMES, and meant to live in two different places! They also receive different honors and different rewards!"

***I think the foolish Laodicean virgin Church saints are left behind at the Pre-Trib Rapture to be part of the Tribulation saints. Lu. 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion ( 2300 days of the Tribulation) with the unbelievers." Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Members of both Raptures will have the same kind of resurrection bodies and live in Heaven. Every human present at the Judgment Seat of Christ will receive what he has earned while on Earth.

"I don't know about anyone else, but I don't think the odds of seeing the Second Coming are going to be too good!"

***We will all return with Christ at the Second Coming. Zech. 14:5 says, "the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee." Therefore, all saints are in Heaven prior to the Second Coming. Agape

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From: Jim Bramlett
The pastor of a church I have been visiting asked me to deliver the Sunday morning message yesterday, which I did. In the message, about 2-3 times I briefly mentioned the strong evidence for the soon return of Jesus; however, all these references did not comprise more than about 5-10 percent of the total message.

To my shock, after the service, TWO DIFFERENT MEN, both spiritually mature with many years walking with the Lord, told me that they saw a supernatural glow surrounding me whenever I mentioned the return of the Lord! They said the glow would recede whenever I moved away from that topic, but reoccurred when I mentioned the Lord's return again. It was something God chose to allow them to see in the realm of the spirit, for His own purposes, perhaps to encourage all of us.

The same thing happened the last time I spoke in a church about the signs of the Lord's soon return. Afterward, a lady said she saw a supernatural glow around me.

This phenomenon is ZERO credit to me, believe me, because I really am not gifted as a speaker. It clearly seems to confirm the anointing on the message -- the message of the Lord's soon return, which in 1993 I was called to proclaim. It is proof that the anointing does not depend on the human ability of the vessel, but upon God, and the message. "God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise" (1 Corinthians 1:27).

Again, the message is: Jesus is coming soon! "Look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh" (Luke 21:28).

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Updated 7-17-00