Pro and Con 555

Posted 7-19-00

Incoming email and my interspersed comments

From: SLVance235@aol.com.
First of all, I do not wish to argue with you. I have much to thank you for - your book, End of the Age, was my "wake-up call." I credit that book, and your website for starting me on the road to WATCHING for our Dear Lord's return. This isn't the first time someone has sent you dialogue quoting me, but I had chosen not to argue with you out of respect. This "pre-versus post" tribulation dialogue between Mark and myself, (and now you) posted at the Doves, needs to be clarified, however.

***From Marilyn: We don't need to argue, just discuss the pro and cons in agape love.

You...say there is no conflict. Because there are 7 Jewish months between the "pre-wrath rapture" and the "Wrath of God," then there would be sufficient "time" to hold ANOTHER Beama Judgement Seat of Christ? Where is this second Judgment Seat of Christ held according to the Scriptures? If the first one is decribed, I would expect the second one to be described...or at least alluded to.

***I don't think there are 7 months between the Pre-Wrath Rapture and the Wrath of God. They take place on the same day, the same day as THE ONLY Judgment Seat of Christ. On the chart, everything preceded with "---" happens on the same day as the line above that list.

***After the 6th seal is broken (Rev. 6:12) on the last day of this Age and before the 7th seal is broken (Rev. 8), Rev. 6:15-17 says, "the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH is come; and who shall be able to stand?" Then it is after 6 PM, when the millennial Day of the Lord began on the Feast of Trumpets.

***During this night and any time up to noon, when the asteroids impact Earth (Zeph. 2:4,5), the Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place. The Tribulation saints are seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:9,14 before the 7th seal is broken in Rev. 8 and the 7 Trumpet Judgments punish the UNBELIEVERS on Earth.

***Rev. 11:15-18 says, "the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever (the 1000-yr Day of the Lord has begun). And the four and twenty elders (representing the saints caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture (Rev. 5:9), which sat before God on their seats (thrones), fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast (First Advent), and art TO COME (Second Advent still future); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry (Gog's army is attacking Israel), and thy WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead (that have been resurrected in the 1st resurrection), that they should be judged (at the Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, SMALL AND GREAT (i.e., every believer is there); and shouldest destroy them (with the Wrath of God, the 7 trumpet judgments) which destroy the earth."

In your "time-line" you show the "pre-wrath" rapture as happening on the 2300th day - you say "every human present at the Judgement Seat (singular?) of Christ will receive what they earned while on earth."...yet in your own "time-line, you have the Beama Judgement Seat BEFORE the Marriage of the Lamb, before the 2300 day.

***The Coronation of Christ, the arrival of those caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture, the Marriage of the Lamb, the Judgment Seat of Christ and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb all happen in Heaven on the same day, the 1st day of the 1000-yr Day of the Lord. The Wrath of God happens on Earth on that same day too. The saints in heaven, "small and great," get their rewards as the unbelievers on Earth get their just rewards for their unbelief.

So somehow you have to reconcile first the Beama Judgement Seat, then the Marriage of the Lamb, then the PRE-WRATH RAPTURE...in that order. So where is the 2nd Judgement Seat recorded or shown or alluded to? Is it just your "assumption" that these split-rapture folks have to be judged somewhere, so it "must" be in there even though it isn't mentioned?

***It isn't mentioned, because there is just one Judgment Seat of Christ. It takes place AFTER the Tribulation saints are caught up to Heaven. Mk. 13:27 says, "And then (on the first day of the Millennium) shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth (the Tribulation saints) to the uttermost part of heaven" (the Bride group that was caught up to Heaven in the Pre-Trib Rapture.

Also, you say you do not believe the Church Saints (those caught up in the "first rapture" come back WITH Christ to earth? Why not?

***They DO come back with Christ, but not on the first day of the Millennium. ALL saints return with Christ (Zech. 14:5) at the Second Advent 7 Jewish months later, on Nisan 1, the first day of the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Year in a Jewish Leap Year that has the 13th month falling between Tishri 1 and the following Nisan 1.

They are the Bride of Christ, the Body of Christ. You yourself, in other commentaries, have said Christ is the "Head", the "first rapture" folks are the body, and the "left-behinders" are the feet. So why would the feet come back with Him, and not the "Body?"

***Zech. 14:5 says, " the LORD my God shall come, and ALL THE SAINTS with thee." I think the whole Body of Christ comes to Earth on Nisan 1.

This also creates a problem with the Marriage of the Lamb. You say pre-wrath believers are married to the Lamb, yet the rest of the Church is NOT married to the Lamb?

***I don't say that. I think that the saints caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture, plus the 144,000 "virgins...without fault" (Rev. 14:4,5) will be the Bride of Christ and be part of the Marriage of the Lamb.

The Church is the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ. As His "Bride", we are married to Him and become as the marriage illustration suggests, "one with Him"...as a bridegroom loveth his bride, as a husband and wife become one flesh, as the husband loveth his own body, so he loves his wife, etc.

As I see it, you have made your "first-pre-wrath raptured folks" the Bride, (yet not the body - after calling it part of the body), and you have made the "left-behinder" folks (whom you called the feet - born into heaven last) part of the tribulation martyrs.

***I think the two feet of the Body of Christ depict the 2 Raptures. One foot depicts the Pre-Trib Rapture that is as the days of Noah. The other foot depicts the Pre-Wrath Rapture that is as the days of Lot. Lu. 17:29 says, "But the SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven (AN ASTEROID), and destroyed them all." The Pre-Wrath Rapture is the same day as the Day of God's Wrath.

THEN you say "members of both raptures will have the same kind of resurrection bodies and live in heaven". First of all, the Church saints are DIFFERENT then the Trib saints...they are two different groups of people, with different destinies, different bodies. By having part of the Church go through the trib, you have MADE the two groups ONE. Well...the Church saints, Body of Christ, Bride of Christ (all one and the same) will have GLORIFIED bodies like Christ, and live with Christ in heaven (New Jersualem in fact)....the trib martyrs will have a natural, but immortal body and live on the earth! So in your scenario, where does THIS separation take place? Where is the separation and distinction made between the two groups (which you've now made one) in being judged and in getting two different bodies? The trib martyrs do not stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ. They are resurrected at the end of the trib - it states clearly that this group is the FIRST RESURRECTION - resurrection as in the definition of "standing up"...they are standing up once again in their own bodies (now immortal, but not "glorified"...for they will live and reign and rule on earth, while the glorified saints which are the Bride will be in the heavenly New Jerusalem with Christ, who will oversee the rule of the earth.....when it will be as we now pray, "Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

***I think both the saints caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture and the saints caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture have a home in Heaven because they all have accepted Christ as their own personal Saviour. The first group is seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9. The second group is seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:9,14. I think all saints will return to Earth with Christ, help in setting up the Millennial government, then go home to New Jerusalem. When we are needed on Earth, we can travel back and forth.

***One third of the Israelites will come through the fire. Zech. 13:9 says, " I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God." Isa. 66:8 shows that all Israel will be born in a day--that day, the Feast of Trumpets that begins the 1000-yr Day of the Lord. They and anyone else that accepts Christ during the next 7 months will live on into the Millennium on Earth.

One last point, you say God's Wrath does not begin until the end of the Trib. I believe there is really no difference in what you call "man's wrath" and "God's wrath"...I believe it is all God's wrath since right after THE Rapture, Jesus Christ is seen being the ONLY one in all the universe that is WORTHY to OPEN THE SEALS. The Seals are opened in consecutive order, releasing next the trumpet judgements and then the bowl judgements. They overlap. Since Christ is the only one worthy to open the seals WHICH BEGINS THE JUDGEMENTS, then, pray tell, what are the judgements but the wrath of God beginning to pour out on the unbelieving world?...those beginning judgements which escalate and get fiercer and more terrible as they go? What is it if they are not ALL OF GOD'S WRATH? How can you divide up God's wrath?

***I don't divide up God's Wrath. I let Rev. 6:16,17 tell me when it is. After the 6th seal is broken in v. 12, it says, "the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne (the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30), and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME; and who shall be able to stand?"

How can you say that just because this part looks like a nuclear war it is "man's wrath" and just because you propose that the asteroid, not a nuclear exchange, explodes upon the world, it is then "God's wrath" not man's???

***I don't see nuclear war anywhere. You must be mixing up someone else's ideas with mine.

I fail to see the difference between wraths - to me, when Christ unseals the scroll and judgements begin and keep on going, then it is ALL coming as a result of His unsealing the scroll - God's wrath will eventually lead to Israel's reemption when they finally turn to Yeshua and realize He is their Messiah.

***Only after the 7th seal is broken and the Judgment Seat of Christ convenes will the Wrath of God be cast on Earth. I think the silence, both in Heaven (Rev. 8:1) and on Earth is while the judge is being seated. Hab. 2:20 says, "the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him."

I will say again, that I only see clearly ONE Rapture and ONE Judgement Seat. I see the Church (true believers) as the Bride and Body of Christ.

***I see two Raptures and ONE Judgment Seat of Christ. I see all saints as the Body of Christ. Part of those same saints are also the Bride of Christ.

I see the trib martyrs as a separate group who are The First Resurrection as plainly stated. I see the pre-trib believers, both dead and alive, as having glorified bodies and living forever with Christ. I see the resurrected trib martyrs (in natural but immortal bodies) as living and ruling on earth in the Millennium. I see God's Wrath as starting from the moment Christ unseals the scroll, being the only One worthy to do so.

Actually I agree with your "time-line" except for the split-rapture thing. But I disagree that Matthew is describing "left-behinders" as those who are "cut asunder",

***Then believe Luke. In 12:46, he said, "The lord of that servant (the foolish one) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him HIS PORTION WITH THE UNBELIEVERS." Why do you think Jesus "hath the sharp sword with two edges" when he is talking to the churches in Rev. 2:12? The lukewarm Laodiceans are about to get cut off, or spewed out of his mouth (Rev. 3:16).

just as I disagree with you that the 10 virgins represent the Bride of Christ, with some left behind and some going.

***I think the wise virgins are the Bride of Christ, part of the Body of Christ, and the foolish virgins are of the rest of the Body of Christ. The Bride wears white (Rev. 19:8). By the time the Tribulation saints are caught up to Heaven, they have "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Rev. 7:14).

Although adhering to these ideas helps promote the split-rapture, it is another whole argument to show otherwise, and I am only addressing the above pre/post trib scenario here.

Again...I will always be grateful that you started me down the road of watching...but as you always say to do, I check out everything with the Bible and this is how I see it. I will see you in the air! Agape, Sherry Vance PS:...If, as you say, all BELIEVERS (pre-trib, pre-wrath, & trib martyrs) are raptured out ON the first day of the Millennial Day of the Lord,

***I think the Pre-Trib group are caught up at the FIRST TRUMP, as in I Thessl 4:13-18. I think all the other saints (believers) are caught up at the "LAST TRUMP," in I Cor. 15:51,52. The first trump is before the Tribulation starts. The "last trump" is on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. We read in Rev. 6:11 that "white robes" are given the martyrs who have died for their faith in Christ. They are part of the heavenly Body of Christ.

***Israel was to make 2 silver trumpets for the calling of the assembly and the traveling of the camps. Nu. 10:2-4 says, "Make thee TWO TRUMPETS of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. And when they shall blow with them (both), ALL (as in I Cor. 15:51,52) the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee." These are the elders, 12 patriarchs and 12 apostles. We want to be in that group too.

which is right before you say "God's wrath" (as opposed to the whole 7 years demonstrating God's wrath since Jesus is the only One who is worthy to unseal the scroll - which unleashes the continual and escalating severity of the judgements)

***I don't think any of the Tribulation is the Day of God's Wrath until Rev. 6:17 tells us that "the great day of his wrath is come." By that time, the 6th seal has already been broken in 6:12.

....and then you say the "asteroid impacts earth" - which leaves SEVEN MONTHS for Israel to bury the dead (during which time the demons from the abyss are tormenting men for five of those months)...then, pray tell, HOW DO YOU ACCOUNT FOR ANY BELIEVERS LEFT ALIVE TO GO INTO THE KINGDOM? INDEED, your scenario of SEVEN MONTHS WOULD BE THE MAXIMUM TIME FOR ANYONE ELSE (after all the raptures are over in your view) TO BECOME A BELIEVER. As I said in the original post, the chances of living to see the Second Advent of Christ are pretty slim.

***I agree with that chance being slim. You seem worried about having enough people left for the Millennium. How many do you need? Don't you think many survivors can accept Christ during those 7 months? If they don't after all those prophecies of the Bible have come true in the Tribulation, I doubt if they ever would. Also, don't forget that Israel is promised the Earth forever. David will be a king on Earth under Christ the King of kings in Heaven after Christ returns to Heaven. Jer. 30:9 says, "But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will RAISE UP unto them." Daniel will stand in his own lot in Israel on the 1335th day from Mid-Trib (Dan. 12:13).

***Eze. 37:11-14 says, "these bones are the WHOLE HOUSE OF ISRAEL: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and BRING YOU INTO THE LAND OF ISRAEL. And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I SHALL PLACE YOU IN YOUR OWN LAND: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it."

***Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Sarah will end up in Heaven though. Heb. 11:13-16 says, "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out (Earth), they might have had opportunity to have returned (to Earth). But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city" (New Jerusalem).

Also, in ascribing only seven months for people to finally become believers (after everyone else is raptured) it does not take into account the MULTITUDE (of righteous?) GATHERED OF ALL NATIONS (who survived) and from which Jesus will separate the Sheep & the Goats.

***By what Scripture do you make all the survivors "righteous"? The goats go into "everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt. 25:41). Surely they are not righteous. Maybe some of the others are not righteous, but kind to others. Remember the meek shall inherit the Earth.

I say this because, the people who survive the Tribulation and attend the Judgement of the Sheep & the Goats, ARE JUDGED ON THEIR BEHAVIOR AND TESTIMONY THROUGHOUT THE TRIBULATION! Jesus told them, (Matt.25:40 & 45) "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." "Inasmuch as ye did it NOT to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me."

Well, these survivors had to have gone through the Tribulation, and they would have either had to have aided, or not aided, Jesus' brethren (Israel AND believers who became martyrs)...and if they had been BELIEVERS helping His brethren in the Tribulation, they would have been raptured with the others (in your 2nd rapture))

***That's right. I think every believer up to that point is caught up to Heaven.

...but how is it they can be IN the Tribulation as unbelievers, NOT aiding the brethren, yet now have to be proven of their righteousness by the way they TREATED His brethren???

***They treated them as needy people that desperately needed help. It wasn't because they were believers at the time that they helped others.

The only way this can be is if they aided the brethren without being believers....but you're still stuck with how they come by gaining righteousness AFTER everyone is gone..and in only seven months?

***Yes. I think they aided the brethren without being believers. What makes you think they have attained righteousness? They may have, if they accepted Christ during the 7 months, but they might not have if they did not accept Christ.

I say that those who go through the Tribulation are UNbelievers who are left behind. I say these UNbelievers who survive the trib either get saved and become a martyr - or get saved and survive somehow.

***If they "get saved and survive somehow," before the Pre-Wrath Rapture, they will be in the heavenly group.

..or at the very least do not take the mark and obviously give aid to the martyrs. These survivors who "did it unto the least of these His brethren" will be counted as "righteous" and enter the kingdom and eternal life.

***Why will they be counted as righteous. Why will they have eternal life? Only those who accept Christ are counted as righteous and have eternal life. Those people will still be in earthy bodies, as we are now.

Those survivors who do NOT have the testimony of Christ, or that "did it NOT to one of the least of these, thereby NOT doing it to Him" will be judged accordingly and "shall go away into everlasting punishment." Anyway you look at it, there are a myriad of questions left unanswered by this split-rapture, pre-trib/pre-wrath, God's wrath versus man's wrath....view.

***Only in your mind. To me, everything falls right into place. I don't make up "man's wrath" when the Bible doesn't tell me a thing is "man's wrath." I don't place God's Wrath until Rev. 6:17 says "the great day of his wrath is come." I let Scripture say what it will and don't try to make it fit a preconceived opinion.

On the other hand, the pre-trib rapture of all believers (the Church, Body of Christ, Bride of Christ) continues the pattern of EACH IN HIS OWN ORDER - and does not confuse church saints with trib saints

***What scripture says no church saints are left behind to be part of the Trib saints? To me, the parable of the 10 virgins and the message to the Laodiceans is clear. The foolish virgins are left behind. The lukewarm Laodiceans are speued out of his mouth. They are left behind for chastisement (Rev. 3:19).

, and describing one judgement seat but not the other

***There is only one Judgment Seat of Christ. I think it takes place the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

, and ascribes all judgement as coming from God - for no one else is worthy - man's wrath is NOT a judgement on man...only Jesus Christ has the power to judge

***So leave man's wrath out of the picture. Leave the judgment to Christ, whose right it is.

...even God the Father does not judge - having handed over all power and honor and glory to the Son! God's wrath is going to be poured out on this UNBELIEVING world

***That's right. The 2 Raptures will take every believer out of here before God's Wrath falls on unbelievers.

(which will finally get through to some people who will likely die for it), but whether a nuclear exchange

***I don't think there will be a nuclear exchange.

stemming from men's bitter hearts, or an asteroid...God is in control and causes all things to work for His honor and glory - and judgement!

I pray...that you will not stick to this view just because it is what you have long taught. I pray if you can't give straightforward biblical evidence of the questions posed, that you will change your heart and mind and admit it. I do not mean to be presumptuous and disrespectful, for I know you have alot of years of Bible Study behind you and are VERY knowledgeable - and you have so many things RIGHT! But the split-rapture is not one of them.

***Take a good look at a few scriptures, and then make up your mind. Rev. 5:9 shows that one group "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" is in Heaven before the first seal is broken in Rev. 6. Rev. 7:9,14,15 shows that another group, "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes...These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God."

***The 2 Raptures are called the "days (plural) of the Son of man." Lu. 17:22-30 tells us of both of them. It says, "The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it (the foolish virgins and lukewarm Laodiceans got left behind). And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them (it is during the Tribulation). For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day (the Sign of the Son of Man seen on his Coronation Day...And as it was in the days of Noe (first Rapture), so shall it be also in the days (plural) of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage (marriage is not mentioned under the days of Lot, only the days of Noah), until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day (representing the 1st day of the Millennium) that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven (an asteroid), and destroyed them all (except Lot and his 2 daughters). Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed" (the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30, Rev. 6:14-16, seen on the day of Rapture 2).

Why do I keep coming back to this pre-trib, ONE Rapture of the Church view? Because it is so important to encourage believers to live in the present - to be ready - to be watching..(I think we both have this as the goal)

***That is for sure, but we can't rearrange things the Bible indicates for our own reasons, no matter how worthy

...but, NOT out of fear of being left behind, but out of a supreme love for Him that wants to honor and glorify Him for saving us and for being faithful to US and His own Self, even when we are not faithful ourselves.

I came to Jesus because I didn't want to go to Hell. I came to Him because I believed He was the only way NOT to go to Hell and I believed the Word, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."..."God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on Him should never perish, but have everlasting life." BUT THE REASON I LOVE HIM IS BECAUSE HE SAVED ME, EVEN WHILE I WAS YET A SINNER...HE SAVED ME, SEALED ME, KEEPS ME, HAS ALREADY REDEEMED ME - all I wait for now is a redeemed, glorifed body like His. THAT ASSURANCE, THAT TRUST, IS WHAT MAKES ME LOVE HIM MORE AND MORE AND MORE! THAT, AND KNOWING HE IS RETURNING FOR ME. That is the Blessed Hope. Being left behind or not knowing if you are going is no Blessed Hope at all!

***Reading I Jn. 1:9 and doing it can make it a blessed hope. If it isn't, it should be.

It is DOUBT and FEAR. There may be a place for someone getting saved through FEAR - but there is no room for fear AFTER we get saved! The only way to glorify Him is with love and trust in the expectation of His coming - and when we do this, we don't worry about "worthiness or obedience" for we automatically do these things.

***Maybe you do, but there could be others that don't automatically do these things.

Those who are not doing these things are not GLORIFYING Him - and that is where they will lose their rewards. I compare it to this: When we are saved, we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. We can be sealed, but are not necessarily "filled" with the Holy Spirit. The filling of the Spirit is an on-going process - yet we can become stagnated and backslidden and still be sealed.... although we are suffering loss even then of what we "could" be doing for the Lord. In the same way, we can be saved and glorify our Lord by our words, actions/hearts, deeds and please Him....yet we can be saved and not be "glorifying" Him - thus another way of suffering loss of eternal rewards.

The final thing I have to say is this. When we get saved, we are saved. There are NONE worthy - no not one. It always comes back to this "worthiness" thing - which is what launched me into my first letter to the Doves and you, Marilyn. None of us are worthy to be saved, much less be raptured into glory! But He said we are and we will be! THAT is why I love Him so! Even so come quickly, Lord Jesus! Shalom, Sherry Vance

***Even for one who is a strong believer, as Paul was, there is a way of losing the PRIZE of the 1st Rapture. In Phil. 3:14, Paul said, "I press toward the mark for the PRIZE of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." I want to win the PRIZE of this HIGH CALLING. In I Cor. 9:24-27, Paul said, " Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the PRIZE? SO RUN THAT YE MAY OBTAIN. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a CASTAWAY."

***Isn't a castaway a believer? You bet. Paul was a strong believer. Yet he had to run the race to win the 1st Rapture. We know he won. He is one of the 24 elders. He knew he won too. In II Tim. 4:7, he said, "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith."

***The 10 virgins are all calling Christ Lord. They are all counted as virgins in God's sight. Yet 5 of them get left behind because they do not have enough oil of the Holy Spirit. They have quenched the Spirit, and I Thess. 5:19 says, "Quench not the Spirit." Their lamps are literally going out, sputtering, not gone out. They are not then on their way to hell. They are still sealed. They are on their way to chastisement, though. Believers suffer here for what they do because they will not be punished for it in Heaven. Heb. 12:6 says, "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth." The lukewarm Laodiceans get spued out of his mouth (Rev. 3:16). In v. 19, they are warned. Jesus says, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." Why should they repent? so they won't be a CASTAWAY.

***Since every believer is promised Heaven and eternal life, the CASTAWAYS the 1st time have to have another Rapture to take them to Heaven. They are saved so as by fire that day, as Lot was. By that time, they will have "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Rev. 7:14). Since they have to do it later anyway, why not confess their sins and have the "blessed hope" of being picked up the first time?

***If someone gets CASTAWAY at the first Rapture, they need to know that they have NOT lost their salvation. They have NOT lost their heavenly home or eternal life. They just get chastized during 2300 days of the shortened Tribulation. Pay close attention to what Paul told us in Lu. 12:46: "The lord of that servant (the unwise one) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (dichotomeo, BISECT, flog severely, cut asunder, i.e., cut him loose, spue him out of his mouth), and will appoint him his portion (2300 days of the Tribulation) with the UNBELIEVERS." The 10 virgin group is BISECTED. Half are ready and go with the Bridegroom (Christ). The other half are caught up in the 2nd Rapture.

***Isa. 57:1 says, "The righteous perisheth (abad, escapes), and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that THE RIGHTEOUS is taken away from the evil to come." We must be righteous, with our sins confessed. Jesus told Peter, "He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit" (Jn. 13:10). If we confess our sins, Jesus will wash our feet, and we will have that "blessed hope." Lu. 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." If we need to pray that we will be accounted worthy to escape, what will happen if we don't pray and are not accounted worthy to escape? I think those not accounted worthy are the castaways, and frankly, I don't want to be one of them. Agape

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