Pro and Con 567

Posted 8-7-00

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(IsraelWire-8/6) Political observers have indicated that signals from the White House indicate Israel and the PLO Authority (PA) will be invited to a second US summit, most likely in September. Due to what are being termed 'technical problems,' the summit will take place after September 13, the date on which Yassir Arafat is planning to unilaterally declare Palestinian statehood. Some observers believe the White House may be waiting to see what action Arafat will take on the 13th.

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site: How Did the TrinityDoctrine Develop?

here is some info on the trinity tha you perhaps look at and see that it was not an early christian teaching. Take care...and bye for now....

(omitted, 9 URLs from Jehovah's Witnesses site)

My reply

Please don't get yourself into hot water. The Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult. Their teachings are in error.

Please remember that there is only one Mediator between God and man, God the Son. I Tim. 2:5 says, "there is one God (i.e., Elohim, Father/Son/Holy Spirit), and ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." This is true in the Old Testament just as much as in the New Testament. The mediator was the "LORD" (YHVH, pre-incarnate Christ) in the OT. The mediator is the "Lord" (incarnate Christ) in the NT.

Gen. 1:1 says, "In the beginning God created." John 1:1-3 says, "In the beginning was the Word...and the Word was God....All things were made by him." The pre-incarnate Christ was the creator.

Heb, 9:14,15 says, "How much more shall the blood of Christ (1), who through the eternal Spirit (2) offered himself without spot to God (3), purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God (i.e., Elohim, Father/Son/Holy Spirit)? And for this cause he (Christ) is the MEDIATOR of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament (also mediated by Christ), they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Jn. 1:18 says, "No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." I Jn. 4:12 says, "No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us." This God that dwelleth in us is the Spirit of Christ, which is also the Spirit of God. Rom. 8:9 says, "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

In De. 9:10, Moses said, "The LORD (Christ, the only mediator between God the Father and man) delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God " (the Father). There are two Persons of the Godhead involved, of whom One, the LORD (Christ), was the Mediator of the Old Covenant.

The Father is called Lord, the Son is called Lord, and the Holy Spirit is called Lord. The Father is called God, the Son is called God, and the Holy Spirit is called God. They are thoroughly intertwined, all part of the Godhead. Mt. 28:19 says, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name (one name) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." Yet, Acts 10:48 says, "And he (Peter) commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord." The "name of the Lord" is the same as "the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

No one saw God the Father, but some in OT days saw God the Son. That is why in Heb. 10:7, Jesus said, "Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God." He always was the MEDIATOR between God and man.

Since there is only one MEDIATOR between man and God, it was the pre-incarnate Christ who appeared and talked with Abraham. Gen. 18:1 says, "the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre." It was the pre-incarnate Christ that Jacob wrestled with. He was God. Gen. 32:30 says, "Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I HAVE SEEN GOD FACE TO FACE, and my life is preserved." It was Christ that appeared and talked with Joshua. Jos. 5:13,14 says, "when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?"

Since there is only one MEDIATOR, the angel of the Lord that appeared to men in the OT was the pre-incarnate Christ. The one that spoke to Moses at the Tabernacle was the pre-incarnate Christ. The one that gave us the OT scriptures by his inspiration was the pre-incarnate Christ. The one that gave us the NT scriptures by his inspiration was Christ. He actually is the one person of the Godhead that has dealt directly with man down through the ages. He is God. There is no way he can be Michael the archangel. That is the biggest lie taught by the Jehovah's Witnesses. Please avoid them and their teachings like the plague. They can get you mixed up.

Ex. 17:2 says, "the people did chide with Moses, and said, Give us water that we may drink. And Moses said unto them, Why chide ye with me? wherefore do ye TEMPT the LORD? The LORD of Ex. 17:2 is said to be Christ in I Cor. 10:9. It says, "they (the fathers, Israelites) drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted....Neither let us TEMPT Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents."

Christ is the Rock. Psa. 94:22 says, "the LORD is my defence; and my God is the rock of my refuge." Verse 23 says, "yea, the LORD our God shall cut them off." Christ is the LORD, and he is our God. This is not to take anything away from the Father. He is God, but Christ is the mediator between the Father and us. He is also God, and the Holy Spirit is God. They are all one God, not three separate Gods. That concept is wrong too. Agape

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From: D. Guyton, Jr.
Re: Partial rapture
My fellow Christian,...I'm ever concerned about Christians portaying the rapture as a "partial" event. It's that view that holds that only the most spiritual of Christians will go to be with Christ at the rapture. There is NO reasonable biblical arguement that can be made for holding that particular viewpoint.

The rapture is a blessed hope offered to ALL of God's people. Pergatory is a Catholic concept not to be found in the Word of God. There seem to be those (such as yourself), who are always making those distinctions between those Christians who will go verses those who won't.

Why do you persist in teaching that some of God's children are more worthy than others to go at the rapture? Have you missed the entire message of the gospel completely? My friend, NONE of us is worthy!!.....therein lies the beauty of the Gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I'm well aware of the letter to the church at Laodecia, but Christ doesn't state here that He's now prepared to disavow any knowledge of their salvation or perhaps leave them behind.

Your teaching about the partial rapture view is erroneous and heretical. This teaching should be ceased to be taught immediately. I don't wish to be combative or to seem hostile, but this teaching is unacceptable to an truly born again Christian. All of Christ's people will have their works judged at the Judgement Seat of Christ, the scriptures make perfectly clear. A partial rapture theory is unbiblical, and is based on little more that emotionalism based on a sense of unworthiness. But, then again, NONE of us is worthy....a point that I've already made.

A partial rapture view smacks of a pergatory ideaology not found in the bible itself.....the idea that perhaps the more unworthy Christians need further repentance and cleansing. True Christians don't need a continued "born again-lost again-born again" experence with the Holy Spirit.....let's be clear on that point. I'll spare us the numerous scriptural references confirming the aforementioned biblical point. To be saved is to be saved eternally, period!!

My apologies if the tone of this letter seems hostile. Thank you for your time and consideration.
Don. Psalms 150:6

My reply

Amen to Psa. 150:6: "Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD."

> > I'm well aware of the letter to the church at Laodecia, but Christ doesn't state here that He's now prepared to disavow any knowledge of their salvation or perhaps leave them behind.

I just take the Lord at his word. If he says it, I believe it. He told the church (i.e., believers) of the Laodiceans, "because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue (emesai, vomit) thee out of my mouth." They have to be in the Body of Christ to be spued out of his mouth. V. 19 says, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."

In Mt. 25, all 10 virgins (i.e., believers whose sins are forgiven when they accepted Christ) went out to meet the Bridegroom (Christ), but the foolish Laodicean types didn't have enough oil of the Holy Spirit. Even though they called the Bridegroom Lord, they were left behind.

Of course none of us is worthy. That is why we owe the Lord so much. Once saved, always saved. That is why there must also be a Pre-Wrath Rapture. At that time, everyone that calls on the name of the Lord will be caught up. The difference is that those that participate in the Pre-Trib Rapture seem to be the Bride of Christ. The 144,000 Israelites are to be added to that group, for in Rev. 14:4,5, the Lord says that "they are virgins...being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb....without fault before the throne of God." In Rev. 5:9, after the first Rapture, the saints sing "a new song." Rev. 14:3 says of the 144,000, "they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."

Therefore, I want to be very sure that I obey Lu. 21:36. It says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." We should use I Jn. 1:9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful to cleanse us of all unrighteousness. It is like when Jesus told Peter that if he didn't wash Peter's feet, Peter had no part with him. Jn. 13:8 says, "Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me." We need to wash our feet so that every sin is brought under the blood of Christ. When the Tribulation saints get to Heaven, they have "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Rev. 7:14). We should do that now instead of later.

There is no such thing as Purgatory. Christians suffer right here on Earth for what they do wrong, because they will never suffer for it later. The quicker we confess our sins, the quicker chastisement turns to blessing too. Agape

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THE UNITED NATIONS, THE NEW WORLD ORDER Millennium Assembly in New York City 9-6-00
By: Tom DeWeese, American Policy Center

..."Nationhood as we know it will be obsolete, all states will recognize a single , global authority and National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all..." Strobe Talbott, U.S. Deputy Secretary of State in the Clinton Administration...

"It is simply not feasible for sovereignty to be exercised unilaterally by individual nation-states, however powerful." Maurice Strong, co-chairman, UN Commission on Global Governance

United Nation's leadership has made no attempt to hide its contempt for American independence and national sovereignty. On September 6, 2000, The United Nations will convene its Millennium Assembly in New York City to restructure the UN in preparation for global governance....

The Assembly will bring together the largest gathering of world leaders ever to meet under one roof. Their goal is to change the way governments operate. The UN will be established as the central operating entity. All governments will be redesigned to operate through the UN. Independent sovereign states will essentially cease to exist. They will instead become "partners" in global governance.

The UN's Charter for Global Democracy has been be created to essentially replace the UN's fifty-year-old Charter. The Charter for Global Democracy is written to establish the new procedures that will govern how nations will interact with each other, as well as how they operate within their own borders....

In September, when literally all of the leaders of the world, gather in New York City for the UN's Millennium Assembly, they will meet for one purpose - to change the world. Global Governance under the control of the United Nations will be established. World leaders will vote to give the UN oversight of all of the earth's land, air and seas....

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Re: About Your Books and Writings
I just ran across the Bible Prophecy Corner today on the i/net. Could you tell me - are ALL of the points listed under the index on the home page, within your 3 books listed under 'books' ?? I don't have the internet at home, and I don't feel like I should try to download all of this information here at work.....

Thank God for your zeal and perseverence. This is probably the most profound site I have found in my search for answers to MANY questions about my Heavenly Father, My Lord & Saviour and His plans for our eternity, and how the Old Testament truths truly correlate to the New Testament truths. I have also been praying for many months for Almighty God to open my (and everyone I know and love) spiritual eyes and ears to know the absolute truth and to please not let us be deceived. After reading some of your information, it is so clear that much of the deception that has gone on in the Church is simply that teaching of "we're just not meant to understand everything" and " the Bible says no man knows the hour or the day - only the Father who is in heaven" While I have to believe what the Bible says about 'no-one knowing the precise moment, He also made it quite clear in His word that He did indeed mean for us to know and recognize the time and seasons - giving us everything necessary to be prepared for the time at hand. I believe so many times, this sort of teaching leads Gods people to not even try to study and find out what God truly means for us and to pass everything off as some kind of mystery that "we just are not meant to understand". I believe it leads the Church into a state of complacentcy and an all around attitude of "well surely this Big Mysterious God understands" (meaning He surely would understand our sin, and lack of obedience)

Please be in agreement with me that Almighty God will open the eyes and ears of His people. God Bless

My reply

Not everything that is on my Web site is in my books. I learn all the time. Not all that is in my books is on the Internet, either. The books are basic to understanding the end-time prophecies. Start there and build on that. When I wrote Exit: 2007: The Secret of Secrets Revealed, I didn't know where Heaven was located, but understanding Ezekiel's visions in chapters 1 and 10 were foundational, and they are explained in the 1st book. I started what turned out to be my 3rd book, Revelations 2000. Unexpectedly, the 4th chapter suddenly outgrew its bounds and became the 2nd book, Heaven Found: A Butter and Honey Star. Then I finished explaining The Revelation of Jesus Christ. I called it the Master Key: Revelation's Secrets Revealed, but Avon Books changed the title to Revelations 2000. They also changed the title of the 1st book in their edition, calling it The End of the Age.

I agree and pray that Almighty God will open the eyes and ears of His people, in Jesus' name, Amen. Agape

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Re: finding URL links for emailed web pages
You asked how to find out the URL if someone sends you a page.

I don't think it is possible unless the sender includes the URL. This can be done by clicking on "send link" instead of "send page". The best way of course is for someone to send you a page and paste the URL in at the top. Agape

My reply

Thanks. It sure is good to have someone I can ask such things. Agape

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Re: I Thess. and wrath
I thess. says we are not appointed unto wrath but to obtain salvation. I was wondering if Paul was referring to eternal wrath in the fires of hell and not wrath of the tribulation, especially as Paul uses the word in direct link to the topic of salvation. What are your thoughts?

My reply

I Thess. 5:9 says, "God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ." I searched for "wrath" on my Bible Plus program. I didn't see any verses with that word that mentioned hell/Hades/Gehenna. They all seem to be talking about the Day of God's Wrath, which is the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord.

Rev. 6:16,17 says, "...said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great DAY OF HIS WRATH is come; and who shall be able to stand?" Rev. 11:18 says, "the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." Rev. 15:1 says, "I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God."

Isa. 13:6-13 says, " Howl ye; for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand; it shall come as a DESTRUCTION from the Almighty...the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, cruel both with WRATH and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the WORLD for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible....Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in THE DAY OF HIS FIERCE ANGER."

This day is the day of Jacob's trouble too. Jer. 30:7 says, "Alas! for that DAY is great, so that NONE IS LIKE IT: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it." Agape

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Re: 144,000
Thanks for a speedy reply to my question of the male child caught up into heaven. Your reply is the first explanation that "felt right" in my spirit concerning the identity of the male child. Now I will pray about it, and do some more checking so I don't go by my feelings and by your say-so. Oh Lord, give me wisdom and discernment. Thank you. Now...another. In Rev.14:1-4 we see the 144,000 in heaven. Do you believe they were raptured without seeing death? If not raptured, then how do they get there? Biernes talks about 7 orders of the first rapture, or stages, and includes the inumerable multitude as one of the stages. How do you feel about that? We both see 2 raptures clearly, why not 7? Or maybe I should use the word resurrection instead of rapture, except I'm not sure that would apply to the 144,000 as I'm not sure any get killed. More food for thought. I love studying all this, but as I mentioned earlier, I'm not good at pulling all the scriptures together from all over the Bible, so I can see the whole. You are such a help in that. I use other authors too, but find myself more leary of such as Capps, although I try to glean the good, and ignore the rest, with God's help. Anyway, thanks for all your scholarship. These are exciting times. Agape

My reply

Thanks for your kind words.

Actually, I just see 2 Raptures, the Pre-Trib Rapture of the Bride of Christ and the Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Tribulation saints (the rest of the Body of Christ), which includes the 144,000 Israelites that are added to the Bride of Christ group. I don't think the 144,000 will see death, and I think there will be others in that great multitude that will not see death.

The sheaf that came out of their graves and were taken to Heaven in 30 AD were resurrected. No one alive at the time was caught up. The same thing is true of the two witnesses. A Rapture, to me, is both resurrection and the catching up of living saints. Agape

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RE: more signs in the heavens
I just read the following on AOL News: "International Team of Astronomers Finds New Planet": "...a new planet in a nearby solar system. The as yet unnamed planet orbits the star Epsilon Eridani, the closest star to Earth which has a circling planet and is bright enough to be lies 297 million miles from its central star - roughly the distance from the sun to the asteroid belt in our own solar is made up mostly of gas and its eccentric orbit lasts just under seven years, about 60 percent as long as Jupiter's..." According to the site CASS Astronomy Outreach - Nearby Stars, the star Epsilon Eridani is the 14th nearest star to Earth, including the sun as #1. It is 10.7 lightyears away at apparant magnitude of 3.7 and absolute magnitude of 6.13 (a very interesting number). Eridani reminds me of the constellation Eridanus (the River of the Judge).

Oh boy, these things really get me excited! Looking up, watching, and praying always. Much love

My reply

Thanks. A planet from outside our solar system that can be seen. That's a first isn't it? The constellation Eridanus is also called the River of Fire. If I remember right, it depicts going down, down and ending up in hell. Agape

Note: see BBC News, Sci Tech Astronomers track nearby planet, by David Whitehouse It may be possible to view the planet with the Hubble Space Telescope or with the new generation of advanced imaging systems connected to ground-based telescopes....

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...What were the verses which indicated we would have a gap between Rapture and the start of the tribulation?... As you say no matter which way we figure it, it can't be long, see you soon. All our agape Love

My reply

> > What were the verses which indicated we would have a gap between Rapture and the start of the tribulation?

The Revelation of Jesus Christ is written as if the Rapture were at hand. It is "at hand" in both the first and last chapters (1:3; 22:10). In Rev. 17:14, the Rapture has just taken place. "they that ARE with him (the Lamb, Christ) are called, and chosen, and faithful." At the time of the Rapture, v. 12 tells us that the 10 kings "have received NO KINGDOM AS YET."

As the first day of the 42-month (Rev. 13:5) 1st half of the Tribulation begins in Rev. 13, we are told that the beast out of the sea (nations, Rev. 17:15) has "upon his horns TEN CROWNS" (Rev. 13:1). Thus the 10 kings are NOT crowned when the Rapture happens, but ARE crowned when the Tribulation begins. Therefore, there is a space between the 2 events.... Agape

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Re: more on difference between incorruption and immortality

I just read your very interesting post from another person that wanted to discuss the difference between incorruption and immortality. I think the observation that the term "incorruptible" does not mean an inability to sin. Angels seem to have been given incorruptible bodies, but obviously many have sinned. Maybe God's definition, not Strong's, is that immortality is not just having an eternal body, but also NOT BEING ABLE TO SIN. In the scripture that you quoted, "I Tim. 6:15,16 it says, " Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who ONLY HATH IMMORTALITY". Now Strongs defines immortality in this verse as "110, athanasia, deathlessness". Death is a separation from God. He cannot be separated from Himself. At this point in time He only has immortality, for the angels even now have the ability to rebell and be separated from His prescence. Maybe at the last trump when the whole body of Christ is finally harvested, since we are one with Him, we will be granted immortality or the inability to ever sin or be separated from Him. The body will never be separated from the head Jesus. That seems to clarify it to me. What do you think? Your brother in Jesus

My reply

In I Cor. 15:51, Paul said, "I shew you a mystery," and it is a mystery yet just exactly what all the CHANGE involves.

Strong's 861, "aphtharsia," incorruption, can also be translated as immortality, so it is even hard to know exactly which it means in a certain verse. It must be very hard to translate. Look at Rom. 2:5-7 (KJV). It says, "the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality (aphtharsia, incorruption or immortality), eternal life." Here, it sounds to me like those who seek for glory, honour and incorruption will receive eternal life (immortality) at the Judgment Seat of Christ, which follows the Pre-Wrath Rapture, but does it?

I Cor. 15:42,44 says, "the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption (aphtharsia)...It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body."

I Cor. 15:51-53 says, "We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible (aphthartos), and WE SHALL BE CHANGED. For this corruptible must put on incorruption (aphtharsia), AND this mortal must put on immortality (athanasia, deathlessness)." Here incorruption seems to mean something different from immortality.

It is a bit easier when immortality is "athanasia, deathlessness."

I Tim. 6:15,16 says, "who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality (athanasia, deathlessness)."

Whatever is involved in the CHANGE, I want both incorruption and immortality, and I'm trusting Jesus Christ for them. Agape

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