Having stated that how could you say there are only two raptures? In the middle of the tribulation the two witnesses are both resurrected and raptured. Is your definition of "rapture" now relegated to those who have mortal bodies. My definition of rapture is a "catching away" or a "taking up" both of the alive AND the resurrected. Certainly the dead in Christ will be raptured. They would fit the pattern of the rapture of the two witnesses (only a lot shorter interval of time between the resurrection and their rapture). Wouldn't you agree that if you count the two witnesses mid trib. that there are three raptures coming up in the next seven years or so and not just two. I don't want anyone to be confused. Your brother in Jesus
> > My definition of rapture is a "catching away" or a "taking up" both of the alive AND the resurrected
Actually, this is mine too--of "both" being caught up at the same event. Looking at it this way, there are two Raptures. Who else goes up Mid-Trib except the 2 resurrected witnesses? No one who has not died goes that time, do they? It is really a Rapture, but only of those two resurrected saints. They demonstrate exactly what happens when the Lord says, "Come up hither." They "ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them." I think this helps us understand that the Rapture is not secret, as some think. It will be observed by some other people, as Psa. 40:1-3 shows. Agape
You in the U.S.have an election with much fascination.Since 1974 I have followed my copy of David Wilkerson's prophetic "VISION" which has more than proved its divine inspiration,many times over. Though no specific time for fulfillment was given(apart from "this generation"),it states that the world economy will break down in "total confusion",leading to an international backlash against USA,and despite desperate reassurances from your President that the best is still ahead,he will not be believed,and the peoples fears will result in a "revolution at the polls". Fasten your seat belts!!
I enjoy regularly reading your site,even though I feel some stuff is a little wide of the mark.I don't think I will ever understand every screw,nut&bolt of God's future plan,nor will anybody else,but it is great & constructive to share in this way.
My opinions on a few matters, as follows.-
Firstly,-- Is this "last generation" 40 years long??
One simple scripture(Matt.1:17)proves that generations vary considerably even though 40 yrs is very common. Adam -----Abraham approx. 1948 years = 20 generations av.97.4 years.
Abraham --David " 963 " " 14 " " 68.7 "
David ---Babylon " 503 " " 14 " " 35.9 "
Babylon --Jesus " 586 " " 14 " " 41.8 "
You may recall I em'd you earlier about a remarkable dream I had 2 years ago,which tied in with scripture to show me a November 2000 Rapture within a 70 year generation from 1948 to 2018,of "last days" events,before the millenial reign of peace & truth in righteousness. Time will soon prove it,one way or the other!
Some of your correspondents are confused about the rapture in 2 parts. This is what I believe------
1. Rapture of prepared,called & chosen saints(not every church member)1 Cor.15:52,1 Thess.4:15-17.
2. 3.5 years of intense evangelism amidst tribulation under Antichrist most preaching being done by heaven-based saints(called angels in Rev.)to fulfill Matt.24:14,and bring in final "harvest". See Psa.149:5-9, Matt.13:30,36-43, Rev.14:6-20.
3. "Great multitude" from 3.5 trib.join others in heaven (Rev.7:13-17) which brings Church Age to its close.
At this point in time the 70th week (7 years) cuts in for the Jews and the gentile world at large, and ends with Jesus return to earth with his saints to Armageddon,7 years later.
Thus, 3.5 yr trib. plus 70th week of 7 yrs = 10.5 years from 1st Rapture to 2nd Coming --- NOT 7 YEARS as many have been taught,even though many others have had it right for a long time.
The 70th week begins with the resurrection of many,Jews & others, and the 144,000 Messianic Jews are sealed with God's protection(Psalm 91)in Jerusalem, while the Antichrist deceives the unbelieving majority into following him,"confirming the Covenant" (made with Abraham)and doubtless clears the way for them to build their Temple.
At the 3.5 yr mark Antichrist sits in this temple,claims to be God,then showing his true nature,brings his armies in to overrun Jerusalem and Judea resulting in a mass exodus of Jews. Again they will be scattered around the world,seemingly without hope,for their " time of Jacob's trouble". Luke 21:20-24, Rev.11:2,3. At that point God will send his 2 Witnesses for the final 3.5 years before Armageddon.
So following Jesus destruction of Antichrist and his forces,the carnage caused by the 7 plagues,great earthquake etc,the Jews are mostly scattered,the earth is a total mess and the temple in Jerusalem,defiled by sacrilege,is destroyed. Jere.4:23,Ezek.38:20-23.
So at the return of Jesus & saints to Jerusalem,the earth is in chaos, but Jews and gentile nations,even though their numbers are depleted somewhat, are still alive on the earth.
Ezekiel 38 & 39 describe the Gog(Satan and Magog (his followers)led
build up to Armageddon. Following this, ch 39 mentions a 7 year clean up period,which seems to be necessary for these things to happen.--
1. Clean up the mess.
2. Build the permanent Temple as per Eze.chs 40-48,Haggai 2:9 Zech 6:12,13,Amos 9:11,Acts 15:16,17,etc.
3. Judgment of living nations -- based on their works.Matt.25:31-46.
4. The "face to face" confrontation between the Jews and their Messiah in the "wilderness of Egypt",to bring them to repentance and back to the "bondage of the Covenant",before they are marched back to their Promised Land, forever. Read Deut.28:63-68,30:1-10 Isa.11:11-16,19:16-25, Eze.20:33-38.
This would bring us to the point in time mentioned in Ezekiel 39:22, "So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God, FROM THAT DAY AND FORWARD". They will then teach the nations the ways of the one and only true God, as they should have done from the time of the original exodus. Isa.2:2-4, Zech.8:20-23. Agape & Maranatha.
I feel that "This generation" of Mt. 24:34 is depicting 40 years, because "this generation" of Mt. 23:36 was 40 years. Jesus was talking to the Pharisees when he told them, "Verily (Amen, i.e., pay attention, this is important) I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation." They did, in 70 AD.
An interesting correlation was recognized by someone who emailed me. From Nisan 8 in 30 AD, when Jesus came to Bethany the day before Palm Sunday, to Av 10 in 70 AD, when the temple proper was burned, is 40 years plus another 120 days. In our times, from Iyar 28, when Israel took the temple area in 1967 to Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007) is also 40 years plus another 120 days.
Also, starting from Sept. 13, 1993, when the Oslo Accords were signed, plus 7 good years and 7 bad years brings us to Sept. 13, 2007, which is Tishri 1, 5768. The Oslo Accords were ratified 3 days later in Israel on Tishri 1, 5754. Adding the 7 good and 7 bad years brings us to Tishri 1, 5768, which is Sept. 13, 2007. That smacks of God's kind of planning to me. I expect Sept. 13, 2007 to be the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord.
I think the 7 bad years will be the Tribulation, which is the 70th week of Daniel.
> > 1.Rapture of prepared,called & chosen saints(not every church member) 1 Cor.15:52,1 Thess.4:15-17.
I think I Thess. 4:13-18 refers to the FIRST TRUMP OF GOD, the Pre-Trib Rapture that is as the days of Noah. I think I Cor. 15:51,52 refers to the "LAST TRUMP" OF GOD, the Pre-Wrath Rapture that is as the days of Lot. Fire fell that same day (Lu. 17:29), as it will the day the "last trump" sounds.
> > 2. 3.5 years of intense evangelism amidst tribulation under Antichrist most preaching being done by heaven-based saints(called angels in Rev.)to fulfill Matt.24:14,and bring in final "harvest".
I expect to visit Heaven at that time, not preach on Earth. Job 5:24 says, "thou shalt know that thy tabernacle shall be in peace; and thou shalt visit thy habitation, and shalt not sin."
Psa. 149:5-9 says, " Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds. Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD." This is after we return with Christ at the Second Advent. Rev. 19:13,14 says, "his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven FOLLOWED HIM upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."
> > 3.5 yr trib. plus 70th week of 7 yrs = 10.5 years from 1st Rapture to 2nd Coming --- NOT 7 YEARS
I don't see how you can justify the extra 3.5 years. To me, the 1260 days of Rev. 11:2,3 are the 1st half of the 70th week of Daniel, the 1260 days of Rev. 12:6,14 and Dan. 12:7 are the 2nd half. The two witnesses are killed Mid-Trib when the False Prophet comes to full power and causes "the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" (Dan. 9:27) in "the midst of the week." The sacrificing stops Mid-Trib when the abomination of desolation is placed at the temple. According to Dan. 12:7-13, there are 3 sets of days that start with that placing of the abomination of desolation, 1260, 1290 and 1335 days.
> > The 70th week begins with the resurrection of many,Jews & others
What scripture justifies this? Daniel will not stand in his lot until the end of the 1335 days. Are OT saints to be put back on Earth to suffer through the trials of the Tribulation? I don't think they will be put back on Earth until after the Second Advent.
> > the 144,000 Messianic Jews are sealed with God's protection(Psalm 91)
Psa. 91 speaks to those that are caught up to Heaven in the 1st Rapture. "Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked. Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High (Christ), thy habitation...Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will SET HIM ON HIGH, because he hath known MY NAME" (Jesus Christ, Yahshua, YHVH of hosts) (Psa. 91:8,9,14). The 144,000 are on Earth until the 2nd Rapture.
> > time of Jacob's trouble". Luke 21:20-24, Rev.11:2,3. At that point God will send his 2 Witnesses for the final 3.5 years before Armageddon.
I think the 2 witnesses will prophesy the 1st half of the 70th week of Daniel.
I think the time of Jacob's trouble is one day, the Day of God's Wrath, the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord, which is also the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture. Dan. 12:1 says, "And at that time (when the False Prophet is to come to his end, Dan. 11:45) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a TIME OF TROUBLE, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book." Agape
Pentecost was an example. I believe without any doubt whatsoever it was the End of the Church Age, Hebrew Year 5760. Then God gave us a Space To Repent.
The Song of Solomon which we're all familiar with does place the Rapture at the early Harvest. I've done research on Mediterranean -- area harvesting and the winter crop is harvested in June and the spring crop in July & August.
But God gave Noah 7 days warning. It seems like he would do the same for us.
Just this last week my eyes were completely opened and I saw something that God actually triangulated and therefore I believe proves the validity of the prophetic statements that follow.
My personal Web Page, www.cityoflight.net/rapture indicates the Hebrew Year 5760 is absolutely the final year of this Age. I believe Bonnie Gaunt's books also validate that, as 5760 appears to be exactly 2,000 years since Christ's birth. Marilyn Agee's analyses of a different order also prove that 5760 is a juncture year, as well as Jim Bramlett's excellent analyses.
5760 ends in September of 2,000.
I found an awesome and complex matrix in the Bible Codes indicating that 5760 would see a Holocaust. It's quite frightening. The Sentence Holocaust 5760 appears in the Torah Vertical (Genesis 45:06 to Exodus 34:04, ELS 6,686). It's a major matrix and extremely descriptive of what will happen. You can see it at
Approximately a quarter of the earth's population will be destroyed in the First Trumpet Atomic War preceding and beginning the 7-year Tribulation. It details it.
There is a clue in Revelation where John spoke of the space of "about half an hour." That's the equivalent (you can do it on a calculator, 7 years times 1/48) of about 50 days. The First Trumpet Atomic War begins at the end of 5760 according to the Bible Codes, and according to John from the time of the Rapture to the time of the AWWI is a period of approximately 50 days.
I was studying the Forgotten Biblical Feasts and came across an awesome analyses. I owe tribute to Larry Dean Spurgeon as well. God's Holy Days in Leviticus 23 have seen exact prophetic fulfillment in the past. There are also other Biblical Festivals. Job said "The secrets of wisdom, they are double to that which is."
Let's take a look. The Jews speak of the five festivals, and each has its own special book of the Bible. In the Hebrew order of the scriptures, these five books follow each other in a logical progression.
The five festivals are: (A) Passover/Unleavened Bread; (B) Pentecost (in retrospect the End of the Church Age; God gives Progressive Revelation as opposed to all at once for His own purposes); (C) Tenth of Av; (D) Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles, Last Great Day; (E) Purim.
Their festival books are: (A) Song of Solomon; (B) Ruth; (C) Lamentations; (D) Ecclesiastes; (E) Esther.
The tenth of Av falls on the weekend of August 12th this year, beginning with Saturday. IT IS PRECISELY FIFTY DAYS BEFORE TRUMPETS. Jeremiah called it a "Moed," a Divine Appointment.
Also, just as there are five festival books, there are five sections to the Psalms; again, one for each of the five festivals. The third section of the Psalms, chapters 73-89, are Psalms of sorrow and distress.
Several years after the ten of Av / Lamentations festival was started, a number of events occurred (I'm listing nine of them) -- for all of these disastrous days to have occurred on the same date on the Hebrew calendar is more than coincidence.
(1) Moses broke the tablets of the Law upon seeing the people worshipping the Golden Calf, Exodus 32.
(2) THE TWELVE SPIES RETURNED from searching out the land of Canaan, with their report which caused ALMOST ALL OF THE PEOPLE to lose faith in God and rebel against Him, leading to their being cursed and wandering in the Wilderness for forty years, Numbers 14.
(3) The First Temple, Solomon's Temple, was destroyed in 586 BC on the ninth of Av. The Babylonians fought their way into the Temple on Av 7, and ate and caroused there until Av 9, and at evening, set the Temple on fire. It burned all night and through the next day, Av 10. See Jeremiah 52:12-13.
(4) The Second Temple, built by Herod, was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD on the Tenth of Av.
(5) In 71 AD on the anniversary of Av 9, the Roman Army plowed Jerusalem with salt, in preparation for making Jerusalem a Roman colony....
World events confirm the seriousness of this month -- and for all of these events to have occurred on this Hebrew Fast Day is astronomically improbable. God is showing us the likeness of what will happen. We should pray that each of us individually may be accounted worthy to stand before the Son of Man, Luke 21:36. I believe, Brethren, the Rapture is upon us -- may God have mercy on us.
If it does not agree with the surface text of the Bible, I personally don't believe it has any validity. I don't think the 1st trumpet will sound until the 2300th day of the shortened Tribulation.
The Tribulation seems to be arranged according to circle clocks (See http://www.pe.net/~mjagee/clocks). The first large circle is for the Tribulation. It is filled with the 7 seals. They are opened about one per year of the Tribulation. Therefore, in that first large circle are 6 smaller circles filling the space around a 7th circle in the center. Each of these 7 smaller circles represents a seal. The seals will be broken about one per year, except that the Tribulation gets shortened, so actually, the 7th is opened the day after the 6th. That shortening does not show up in the circle clock plan, however.
Within the 7th seal in the center is a 2nd circle clock. There are 6 more circles around a 7th in the center. That group represents the 7 trumpet judgments that come out of the 7th seal.
Within the 7th trumpet judgment circle in the center is a third circle clock. There are 6 more circles around a 7th in the center. That group represents the 7 vials that fill up the wrath of God.
Therefore, I don't think the 1st trumpet can sound before the first seal is broken to kick off the Tribulation. The 1st trumpet must come out of the 7th seal, which is roughly the 7th year of the Tribulation. Scripture agrees. Rev. 8:1,2 says, "when he had opened the SEVENTH SEAL, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour (while the judge is being seated at the Judgment Seat of Christ). And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given SEVEN TRUMPETS."
I think the trumpet judgments will not be atomic war, but a couple of asteroid impacts. Rev. 8:8-11 says, "the second angel sounded, and as it were a great MOUNTAIN BURNING WITH FIRE was cast into the sea (the Mediterranean, Zeph. 2:4,5): and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. And the third angel sounded, and THERE FELL A GREAT STAR FROM HEAVEN, BURNING AS IT WERE A LAMP, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."
I hope you are right about the Rapture. I don't see how it could be far off the way things are shaping up for the Tribulation. The New World Order Millennium Assembly in NY is to convene 9-6-00. Av 19 (Aug. 20) might be another possibility for the Rapture. That was when the dove brought Noah the olive leaf. We don't have long to wait to find out. We need to get ready and stay ready. We need to obey Jesus' instructions. In Lu. 21:36, he said, "WATCH ye therefore, and PRAY always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Agape
He claims that there is a Mid-Trib or pre-Great Trib rapture because 2 Thessalonians 2: 1, 3, 4 states that 1 "Brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, AND OUR GATHERING TOGETHER TO HIM" 3 "for IT will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction" 4 "who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, SO THAT HE TAKES HIS SEAT IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, DISPLAYING HIMSELF AS BEING GOD" (the abomination of desolation).
Also, in Matthew 24: 29-31, Jesus states that "immediately after the TRIBULATION of those days" NOT after the GREAT TRIBULATION of those days, will he "gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other".
Do you think a Mid-Trib Rapture may still be a possible scenario??
Hoping you can shed some light on this subject, Your Friend in Christ
II Thess. 2:1-3 says, "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him (the Pre-Trib Rapture), That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ (almost all major MSS have day of the Lord, i.e., the Millennium) is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day (Day of the Lord) shall not come, except there come a falling away (apostasia, departure, the Rapture) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition." The False Prophet will be revealed when he confirms the 7-year covenant as the Tribulation begins.
> > in Matthew 24: 29-31, Jesus states that "immediately after the TRIBULATION of those days" NOT after the GREAT TRIBULATION of those days, will he "gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other".
Notice in Matthew 24, the elect are only gathered to the assembly from one end of HEAVEN to the other. They are the ones that were caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture. Mk. 13:27 is different. It says, "And then (on the 2300th day of the Tribulation, Dan. 8:14) shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth (the Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of heaven" (those that were previously caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture).
Heb. 12:22-25 mentions this assembly in Heaven. It says, "ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the GENERAL ASSEMBLY and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the JUDGE of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven."
At this time, all the saints are gathered for receiving their rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Rev. 11:18 says, "the nations were angry (Gog's army is attacking Israel), and thy wrath is come (to stop Gog's army), and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, SMALL AND GREAT; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."
I think the Pre-Wrath Rapture will happen on Rosh HaShanah, not necessarily the Pre-Trib Rapture. Agape
> > "If the 10 days of Rev. 2:10 are meant to mark off 10 days before the Rapture, some would be put in prison on Av 9 (Aug. 10), when the temple grounds were set on fire. We don't have long to wait to see if this applies this way. We need to stay ready, just in case. Agape"
According to my Halleys Bible Handbook it states:
The Book of Revelation is in Two Parts, Chapt. 1-3: "Things which are" 1) that is, Things which were in Johns day: Seven Letters to Seven Churches, dealing with the situation as it then was. This, in a sense, is Introductory to the main body of the book, which follows: Chapt. 4-22: "Things which Shall Be Hereafter" (1:19; 4:1); covering the time from Then on to the End."
Then it goes into further detail concerning Rev. 3:10 "Kept from Trial" The Church in Smyrna had been told that they were to suffer persecution (2:10). Here, to the church in Philadelphia, the poromise is to keep them from suffering (3:10). Both faithful churches. God does not deal with all in the same way, but with each as He Himself knows best, beyond our understanding till we reach the other shore.
It appears to me that the 10 days is NOT a warning to our end times Rapture but rather a reference to events occuring during Johns time. Could you please state for me your reasons as to why it may apply to our approaching Rapture. This would be a very BIG sign of the rapture if your theory were true. One that even the unbeliever, if told, could find very intriguing.
Also, where do you get that there is a fire in the temple 10 days before the rapture?
Thanks for all your insight and help. I respect your gifts and wisdom. Because of Him
The more I think about the 10 days, the more it seems as if Jesus transmitted the script for "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" as if he stood at that point in time 10 days before the Pre-Trib Rapture. When some saints are put in jail at that point, they can't be there but 10 days. The Rapture would take them out of jail, much as the apostles were released from jail. Acts 5:19 says, "the angel of the Lord by night opened the prison doors, and brought them forth."
I disagree with Halley's Handbook here. I don't think any of Revelation took place in John's day. Here is the way I see it. Rev. 1:19 says, "Write the things which thou hast seen (before the Rapture), and the things which are (at the time of the Rapture), and the things which shall be hereafter" ("hereafter" the Rapture, Rev. 4:1). What John was shown that comes before the Rapture is the Preview of the Rapture in chapter 1 and the view of the churches as Jesus sees them 10 days before the Rapture takes place.
> > > If the 10 days of Rev. 2:10 are meant to mark off 10 days before the Rapture, some would be put in prison on Av 9 (Aug. 10), when the temple grounds were set on fire.
> > where do you get that there is a fire in the temple 10 days before the rapture?
That's not exactly what was in my mind. If the Rapture were to come on Av 19, as when the dove brought an olive leaf back to Noah (Gen. 8:10,11), then 10 days before that would be Av 9, when the temple grounds were set on fire in 70 AD. The fire broke into the temple proper on Av 10. Both temples, Solomon's and Herod's, were burned on Av 10. Jer. 52:12,13 says, "in the fifth month (Av), in the tenth day of the month, which was the nineteenth year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, came Nebuzaradan, captain of the guard, which served the king of Babylon, into Jerusalem, And burned the house of the LORD, and the king's house; and all the houses of Jerusalem." Agape
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