Pro and Con 588

Posted 9-2-00

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From: Jim Bramlett: When the top world council cheers as God is blasphemed, how much longer do we have?
>, 8-30-00:
Turner Attacks Christianity at U.N. 'Peace Summit' by Austin Ruse

Any pretense that the "World Peace Summit" is anything other than a cover for a left-leaning agenda was stripped away as American media mogul Ted Turner addressed nearly 1,000 hooting delegates Tuesday in the U.N. General Assembly Hall.

New Age billionaire Maurice Strong introduced Turner by saying he had done more for peace, the environment and the United Nations than any other person....

Immediately Turner denounced his own childhood Christian faith. The crowd's laughter turned to approving whoops as Turner explained he turned away from Christianity when he discovered "it was intolerant because it taught we were the only ones going to heaven. That confused the devil out of me since that would have left heaven a very empty place."

Turner...praised "indigenous" religious faiths...In his spiritual search Turner realized that there was one God and multiple ways he manifests himself and that it makes little difference which one is chosen...

...Darren Logan, foreign policy analyst for the Washington-based Family Research Council, called Turner's speech "the most blasphemous thing I have ever heard in my life."

Logan said Turner advanced the notion of "reductionism," which suggests that all religions are essentially the same. "Turner believes true tolerance means doing away with the uniqueness of all faiths and marginalizing all faiths that profess an exclusive component, like Christianity and Islam," said Logan....

Minutes later a Buddhist "master" received a standing ovation when he condemned all attempts at religious conversion, something at the heart of Islam and Christianity....

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...the Eastern faiths were very well represented...

A well-connected Muslim delegate also complained of what he felt was only a token presence of Christians and Muslims. He explained that an overwhelming number of countries are under administrative control of either Christians or Muslims, yet he felt both religions were under-represented.

"If this body is to have any credibility at all it must address the concerns of both Christians and Muslims," he said. He also complained that both faiths had come under attack during the week. American media mogul Ted Turner attacked his boyhood Christian faith, and Hindus delegates criticized the conversion policies of Christianity and Islam....

...Only one document was produced, and it was written well in advance of the meeting. Participants were asked to sign the "Commitment to Global Peace" that calls for, among other things, regional and global "pursuit of peace," "a world free of violence" - and reversing the "gap between rich and poor."...

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...I've been meaning to mention what a thrill I get when someone from another country (Muslim) writes in and asks questions, finds truth, and the Lord. What a servant of God you are! He put you on the web for one reason, and to Him be the glory. If only one person finds Jesus through your site, it is worth it all. Praise God, He is coming soon! Love

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I thought you might like to know how you ministered to another without knowing you did so. I like to know when this happens to me, and I thought you might like to see the evidence from your own pen. Here is a short email sent to me about the answer you gave me when I asked you the question, "Why did Jesus walk on the water"? ---
The phrase "they considered not the miracle of the loaves" when I read it in Marilyn's reply really spoke to me. Even when I was a small child and heard the story of Jesus feeding the five thousand, my mind would try to find an explanation for the event, rather than accepting it as a miracle. I felt that when those gathered saw the little boy was sharing his food, they reached into their satchels and pockets and came up with food that they too could share, thus there was plenty of food for all. Yes, Jesus blessed the baskets, but he really didn't create more food, that was impossible.

I never believed that this was a miracle, but something that happened that'seemed' like a miracle to those gathered.

The walking on water was different - my childlike mind could not find a logical solution to that event and it has always troubled me. Now I know it was truly a miracle intended for unbelieving me because I "considered not the miracle of the loaves".

Thanks for asking Marilyn my question. Her answer provided for me the answer to an 'age old' question I've had.

My reply

How nice. Thanks for letting me know. The Lord knows how to arrange these things when we don't. I wondered if I should leave that out, but put it in. Agape

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...I would appreciate your comments. Shalom

Seven Thousand Years of Time Are Allocated for Man on Earth

The most significant and widely used concept in Biblical interpretation that involves timing of prophetic events is the interpretation that the seven days of creation of Genesis are prophetic of seven thousand years of time for man on this earth.

I. First, the scriptural method of interpretation to consider the Torah as highly prophetic. The student of Scripture should look for the prophetic meaning of each story given. In specific the Feasts/appointed time of the LORD in Leviticus 23 including the Sabbath are highly prophetic.

Colossians 2:16,17: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come.

II. Next; with the "shadow of things to come" approach to interpretation, the seven thousand years of time for man on this earth is indicated by the following Scripture passages:

A. Genesis 2: At creation, God did not need six days to create the earth and he did not require a seventh day to rest. He apparently had a prophetic purpose for arranging creation that way. 1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made...

B. Exodus 20: In the Ten Commandments, God made a point of requiring His people to remember the Sabbath day and its relation to creation....

(also in Exodus 35:1-3)
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

C. Leviticus 23: God re-emphasized that the Sabbath is a sabbath of the LORD for his special reasons and not just a thing for man.
3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

D. Exodus 24: God repeats the pattern of six days with something special on the seventh day when he called Moses up to mount Sinai to give him thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which God had written....

E. Leviticus 25: God repeats the pattern of six then something special on the seventh as he set up the Sabbath year of rest for the Land. (also in Exodus 23:10-11)
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses in mount Sinai, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land which I give you, then shall the land keep a sabbath unto the LORD.
3 Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruit thereof;
4 But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.

F. Exodus 21: God repeats the pattern of six then something special on the seventh as he set up the freedom of a Hebrew servant on the seventh year.

2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.

G. Joshua 6: God repeats the pattern of six then something special on the seventh as he gave Israel victory over Jericho.

...4 And seven priests shall bear before the ark seven trumpets of rams' horns: and the seventh day ye shall compass the city seven times, and the priests shall blow with the trumpets.
5 And it shall come to pass, that when they make a long blast with the ram's horn, and when ye hear the sound of the trumpet, all the people shall shout with a great shout; and the wall of the city shall fall down flat, and the people shall ascend up every man straight before him.

H. II Peter 3:7-13 - In the midst of a passage on the last days and the Second Coming of Christ, Peter inserts key prophetic information "that 1 day is with the Lord as 1000 years and 1000 years as one day". But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up...

I. Hebrews 3&4: In Hebrews 3:7 to 4:9 The Sabbath day rest is explained as being representative of both a rest that individuals may enter into by ceasing from his own works and a future millennial rest.

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Here, the Greek word for rest is Sabbatismos implying that this 1000 Year rest is in the seventh of seven 1000-year periods.

It is understood that the remaining rest for the people of God is the 1000 year Millennium. This is established by the following verses.

Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Isaiah 14:3,7: And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve, The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

Revelation 20:1-7 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and cast him into the abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished...

J. Hosea 6:1-3. Here it appears that after Israel is cut off for 2 days or 2000 years she will be raised up and live in the LORD's sight in the 3rd 1000-year day:
Come, and let us return unto Jehovah; for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days will he revive us: on the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live before him...

John 2:1 Implies that in the third day (with Hosea 6:2 in mind) there would be a wedding (the marriage of the Lamb of Rev 19:7?): And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee.

K. Daniel 12:1-7 The unit for a "Time" in the "time, times, and a half" must be 1000 years to cover the time of Daniel (501 BCE and 3500 years after Adam) until after the two resurrections (Vs. 2). The indicated time is 3500 years, which is one half of the total 7000 years. The man dressed in linen was standing above the river thus dividing the river representing dividing all the time allocated to man on this earth. He was answering the question of "How long will it be until the end of these wonders?" (Vs.6)

***From Marilyn: I'm with you up to here. I think the time (1 year), and times (2 years), and half a time (1/2 a year) are 3 1/2 years, 1260 days. Rev. 12:6 has the 1260 days. Rev. 12:14 has the " time, and times, and half a time" for the same last half of the Tribulation that starts with the abomination of desolation." In both Rev. 12:6 and 14, the woman (Israel) flees.

***In Dan. 12:4, Scripture starts talking about "the time of the end." I think the time of the end here is the last half of the Tribulation, the Great Tribulation that starts with the placing of the abomination of desolation. Mt. 24:14 starts a section on the same time: "and then shall THE END come." The next verse tells about the placing of the "abomination of desolation."

***Dan. 12:6 asks, "How long shall it be to THE END of these wonders." The answer is in v. 7: "it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, ALL these things shall be FINISHED." Verse 9 repeats the thought of v. 4, "the words are closed up and sealed till THE TIME OF THE END." Two other sets of days, 1290 and 1335 start at the same time as the final 1260, "from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up."

L. Revelation 13:18. Here a number involving six ( 666) is given as the number of man. This may relate to the first six thousand years as a time for man's rule on earth while the seventh thousand years will be for God's rule on earth. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

M. John 11:1-44 Messiah portrayed the resurrection at the end of 6 days/1000 years. deliberately took 6 days (waiting 2 days until Lazarus died to leave for Bethany in verse 6 and arriving 4 days after Lazarus had died in verse 17) to reach the tomb of Lazarus (in Bethany) so that He could raise him at the end of the 6th day. This was prophetically stated by Martha in verse 24 "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."

***Good point. I had failed to put together the 2 days and the 4 days, so I'm glad you reminded me. Jn. 11:4 says, "When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode two days." V. 11 says, "after that...Lazarus sleepeth." Then v. 17 says that "he had lain in the grave four days." The 6th day and the "last day" mentioned by Martha may correlate too. That might make Elul 29 (Sept. 29 in 2000), the last day of 5760, a possibility for the next rank in the First Resurrection. I think Eve was taken out of the body of Adam on that day. She was the bride of Adam, and we are the Bride of the Second Adam, Christ. Eve wasn't made of the WHOLE body of Adam, either. She was made of a rib close to his heart. Lazarus ("whom God aids") was close to the heart of Jesus too. What applied to him may apply to us also.

***There are other last-day verses that apply to the last day of this Age or the last rank of the First Resurrection. I think the Pre-Wrath Rapture will take place near the junction of this Age and the Millennium. All believers left on Earth will be caught up then. This LAST DAY may be also be the "LAST TRUMP" of I Cor. 15:52. Jn. 6:39,40 says, "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should LOSE NOTHING, but should raise it up again at the LAST DAY. And this is the will of him that sent me, that EVERY ONE which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY." Jn. 6:44 says, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY." Jn. 6:54 says, "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY."

***Maybe both Raptures take place near the junction of Elul 29 and Tishri 1.

N. Mark 9:2. Messiah illustrated His future coming in power at the end of 6 days/1000years. And after six days Jesus took with him Peter, and James, and John, and lead them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and He was transfigured before them.

III Adam was told that he would die in a day in Genesis 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Adam died spiritually that very 24 hour day and he died physically in the Scriptural 1000 year day. He lived 930 years (Gen. 5:5) and all of his descendants recorded in Scripture lived less than 1000 years. The longest lives were Methuselah (969 years-Gen. 5:27) and Noah (950 years-Gen. 9:29).

IV The Apostles claiming to be in the last days is valid using the 7 1000 year "days" understanding. The Apostles were in the "Last Days" when the Holy Spirit came on the day of Pentecost as stated in Acts 2:16,17: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh.

And in Hebrews 1:1,2: God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds.
This is true because the Apostles were near the beginning of the 1000 year day 5 while we are near the end of the 1000 year day 6 and the millennium will be day seven. Days 5, 6 & 7 are in fact the last days while days 1 through 4 are the beginning days.

V. A look at Bible chronology indicates a 1000 year rhythm with God sending major men each 1000 years with major tragedies and provisions from God in the middle of each 1000 year period. This is shown by the chart below with years from Adam shown.

Millennium Beginning Event Middle Event and Gods Provision (sorry, but I requested he send it to me Text Only and lost the formatting)
1 Adam Created 0 Nephilim - Pure unpolluted line to Noah
2 Noah Born 1056 Flood - Noah's Ark 1656
3 Abraham Born 2008 Egyptian Bondage - Exodus 2537
4 David King 3000 Jerusalem Destroyed 3447- Prophets
5 Messiah Born 4000 Christianity and Judaism Split - Gods Remnant
6 Crusades/Masoretics Dark Ages - Reformation
7 Messiah Returns 6000 Messiah's Kingdom on Earth

VI 7000 years for man was a wide spread view in the three century's before and after Messiah as shown by many Jewish and Christian writings. This provides additional evidence that this is what was taught by Christ and the Apostles to their followers is provided by many early Christian writings that had this interpretation. Some are referenced and quoted by Grant R. Jeffery in Armageddon Appointment With Destiny...They include The Epistle of Barnabas (100 CE) and books by Justin Martyr & Irenaeus (150 CE), Methodius Bishop of Tyre (300CE) and Lactatius (325 CE). Another example is in the book entitled The Secrets of Enoch. (Rutherford H. Platt.Jr. Ed., The Forgotten Books of Eden...An example is in The Epistle of Barnabas, chapter 13 (or 15, depending on the translation) entitled the False and True Sabbath. An excerpt reads as follows:

Further, also, it is written concerning the Sabbath in the Decalogue which [the Lord] spoke, face to face, to Moses on Mount Sinai, "And sanctify ye the Sabbath of the Lord with clean hands and a pure heart."

He says in another place, "If my sons keep the Sabbath, then will I cause my mercy to rest upon them." The Sabbath is mentioned at the beginning of the creation [thus]: "And God made in six days the works of His hands, and made an end on the seventh day, and rested on it, and sanctified it." Attend, my children, to the meaning of this expression, "He finished in six days." This implieth that the Lord will finish all things in six thousand years, for a day is with Him a thousand years. And He Himself testifieth, saying, "Behold, to-day will be as a thousand years." Therefore, my children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, all things will be finished. "And He rested on the seventh day." This meaneth: when His Son, coming [again], shall destroy the time of the wicked man, and judge the ungodly, and change the-sun, and the moon, and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day.

Church father Irenaeus wrote concerning a belief of the early church: "For the day of the Lord is as a thousand years; and in six days created things were completed; it is evident, therefore, that they will come to an end at the sixth thousand years." Lactantius, tutor of the son of the Roman Emperor Constantine, stated in his Book of Divine Institutes, Chapter 14: "let the philosophers know that the six thousandth year is not yet completed; and when this number is completed, the consummation must take place." Later, in A.D. 1552, Bishop Latimer wrote: "The world was ordained to endure, as all learned men affirm, 6,000 years. Now of that number, there be passed 5,552 years (as of A.D. 1552), so that there is no more left but 448 years (ending in A.D. 2000)." In the 17th century, Archbishop Ussher had access to many ancient church manuscripts that were lost in the burning of early Irish churches during the Irish wars. In A.D. 1650, in Latin, he wrote The Chronology on the Old and New Testament in which he calculated that the Millennium would begin in A.D. 1997. His chronology was based on Christ being born in 4 B.C. Modern scholarship places Christ's birth between 6 B.C. and 1 B.C. which, according to Ussher, the Millennium would begin 1995-2000.

The writings of other church fathers such as Victorinus, Bishop of Petau and Hippotylus support the argument that the apostles and the early church believed and taught that the Millennium would commence at the end of 6,000 years. (From an article by Jim Bramlett at

The writings of the early Jews expressed the view that the Messiah would come at the end of our present century. After the Bible, the Talmud is the most authoritative source of Judaism. The view frequently expressed in the Talmud, according to researchers, is that the world as we know it would last only 6,000 years. For example, the Tanna debe Eliyyahu teaches: "The world is to exist 6,000 years. In the first 2,000, there was desolation (no Torah, from Adam to Abraham . . .), 2,000 years the Torah flourished, and the next 2,000 years is the Messianic era (He should have come within that period . . . He should have come at the beginning of the last 2,000 years; the delay is due to our sins)" (emphasis added; ironically, Messiah did come the first time at the beginning of the last 2,000 years because of our sins).

***I figure God dealt mainly with all mankind during the 1st age, the 2000-yr. Age of the Gentiles, with the Jews during the 2nd 2000-yr. Age of the Jews, and with the Church during the 3rd 2000-yr. Age of the Church.

Rabbi Ketina said in Gemara, a commentary on the Talmud, "The world endures six thousand years and one thousand it shall be laid waste (that is, the enemies of God shall be destroyed), whereof it is said, 'The Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.' As out of seven years every seventh (is a) year of remission, so out of the seven thousand years of the world, the seventh millennium shall be the millennial years of remission, that God alone may be exalted in that day.". (From an article by Jim Bramlett at
Enoch 33:1 "And I appointed the eighth day also, that the eighth day should be the first created after my work, and that the first seven revolve in the form of seven thousand, and that at the beginning of the eighth thousand there should be a time of not counting, endless, with neither years nor months nor weeks nor days nor hours."
Elias 200 B.C. " The world endures six thousand years; two thousand before the law, two thousand under the law, and two thousand under the Messiah. "

VI. God told the ancient Hebrews not to harvest from fruit trees until the fifth year after planting (Leviticus 19:23). If this is a prophetic symbolism, God "planted" Israel (the fig tree) with Abraham about 2000 B.C. The fifth year, or fifth thousand-year period, would begin on or about A.D. 2000. Is this when the fruit of God's planting and cultivating from "Abraham's seed" will come to harvest, in the Millennial Kingdom? (From an article by Jim Bramlett at )

***Good point.

VII The above information on the 7000 years for mankind on earth is summarized by the following chart.


SCRIPTURE DESCRIPTION MILLENNIAL MESSAGE Genesis 2:1-3 Creation in 6 days - 7th day blessed & holy Rest
Exodus 20:8-11 & Exodus 35:1-3 Man commanded to remember Sabbath day and to keep it holy Rest
Leviticus 23:3 Sabbath is of the Lord - man shall not work Rest
Exodus 24:16 Cloud covered Sinai 6 days Moses called up on Seventh day Meeting God
Leviticus 25:1-4 The Land shall rest ever 7th year Rest
Exodus 21:2 Slaves are freed on the 7th year Freedom from bondage
Joshua 6:1-5 Israelites went around Jericho once for six days on seven times on the seventh day then the walls fell at the sound of the ram's horn and shout Victory over enemies after 6 1000year days and 7years

II Peter 3:7-13 Day is with the Lord is 1000 years and vice versa 1000 year Day of the Lord

Hebrews 3:7 to 4:9 "There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest (Sabbatismos) (seventh of seven) for the people of God" 1000 years after a preceding 6000 yrs.

Hosea 6:1-3 "After two days will he revive us: on the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live before him" Israel cut off for 2000 years then revived in the next 1000 years.

John 2:1 "And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee" Wedding Supper of the Lamb

Daniel 12:1-7 Time Times and a Time "Time =1000 years results in 3500 remaining time that can include both resurrections. Daniel was at year 501 BCE midpoint of all 7000 years. Best Proof of 7000 year total time.

Revelation 13:18 6 is number of man Man rules 6000 yrs. Messiah for 1000 yrs.

John 11:1-44 Lazarus raised at the end of the 6th day Resurrection after 6000 years

Mark 9:2 After 6 days Messiah transfigured Messiah to earth in glory after 6000 years

Genesis 2:17 Adam died physically in a 1000 year day as God had said Some Scriptural days 1000 years long Acts 2:16-17 & Hebrews 1:1&2 The Apostles were in the Last Days 5th, 6th and 7th 1000 yrs. are the Last Days

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Apostle Paul mentioned that the dead in Christ shall rise first. First in the resurection?? order? The Word is fulfilled in an interesting way. Example is Yeshua's quote of Isaiah when He stood in the temple. The whole sentence wasn't fulfilled at the same time. Only the part He read was fulfilled. Just a thought. IN HIM

My reply

It sure is interesting. The word of God is constructed so that the whole story is not often completely covered in one place. We have to find all the pieces of that puzzle and see how they fit together. Often one account will give a detail that is missing from the others, and the whole thing can't be fully understood without that one detail. A recent one I looked up was when Jesus walked on water. In John 6:21, we see that when Jesus got into the ship, "immediately the ship was at the land whither they went." We were told that they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs, but without doing research, I don't know how far out into the Sea of Galilee that is. The one fact that is necessary for me to understand Jn. 6:21 easily is in Mk. 6:47. It says that "the ship was in the midst of the sea." Well, that ship went all the way from the midst of the Sea of Galilee to the other side in a moment, 25 - 30 furlongs. To see that, one has to bring together the facts from all the accounts.

Another phenomenon is like you remembered, when Jesus stopped reading in the midst of Isa. 61:2: "To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God," because there is a gap between the fulfillment of these two phrases. There are other verses like that, by design, so only the wise can understand. The fulfillments of two parts of one verse may be separated by some time. Isa. 28:13 explains that line is upon line, precept upon precept, so that the wicked "might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken" (Isa. 28:13).

What leads me to think that Christ's bringing the dead in Christ with him, their getting their resurrection bodies, and our rising to meet them in the air all take place in quick succession is Rev. 22:12, "behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." Unless I find another verse that shows that those things are separated in time, I'll think it will all happen quickly.

> > dead in Christ shall rise first. First in the resurection?? order?

I'd say they will be raised before the living are caught up, first in order that night. They can't be first in the resurrection because Christ was the first in that. Not only has the first spot already been filled, but the rest of the Firstfruits sheaf was raised on Resurrection Day in 30 AD (Mt. 27:52,53). Agape

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