After the Bride of Christ is caught up to Heaven in Rev. 4:1, Rev. 6:2 says, "a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer." The bow is "toxon," a simple fabric bow to show that this is a man of the cloth, a religious leader, i.e., the Tribulation Pope.
Fabric strips are used in numerous places in the gospel in the stars to show the same thing. King Cepheus, crowned with a crown of stars, has The Ribbons, the fabric symbol of a religious leader, in his right hand that is stretched overhead. He represents the triumphant Christ, the King of kings (shown by the sceptre in his left hand) and the Lord of Lords (shown by The Ribbons in his right hand). Queen Cassiopeia is at his side, also holding up ribbons of fabric. He is holding out his sceptre to her. His foot is almost upon Polaris, considered the highest point in the heavens. It is ALMOST upon the Pole Star because the Pole Star is not Heaven. It just symbolizes that Christ is the Most High.
Heaven travels the ecliptic, shown by the Bride and Bridegroom, Gemini, seated together in heavenly places--on the ecliptic.
On page 109, in The Gospel in the Stars, Seiss said of Auriga the shepherd, who also symbolizes Christ, "The band in his right hand is the same Band which we saw in the hand of the Lamb and in the hand of the enthroned Cepheus. It is the Band of power by which the glorious Head of the Church upholds and guides His people on the one side, and binds the enemy on the other."
In Rev. 6:2 the impostor rides forth on a white horse, a symbol of a prince of peace. He has the fabric bow to show that he is head of the world church. A crown is given to him who carries "the name of blasphemy" (Rev. 13:1), Pontifex Maximus. And "power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and NATIONS. And all that dwell upon the earth shall WORSHIP HIM, whose names are NOT written in the book of life of the Lamb" (Rev. 13:7,8). Agape
The Bible says that at the LAST TRUMP we will be changed, but that word for trump is also used twice for TRUMPETS. Plural. I believe that at the last TRUMPETS, plural, the rapture will occur.
At the opening of the seventh seal, when there is silence in heaven for the space of half an hour, starts the trumpets. I have been praying about this silence in heaven for years. I now believe that silent space has to do with the rapture of the church.
1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Re: http://web.singnet.com.sg/~spirit5/letters/sep2000/mary93-2.htm Mary (3 Sep, "Rapture beliefs explained"
This is my personal belief now. I have prayed for many years about the silence in heaven for the space of half an hour. Since I believe that the rapture will take place at the time of the sounding of the trumps, I think it will be at the beginning of the trumps. This is why.
The nature of the Lord is to WARN, SEEK and SAVE. His nature has not nor will not change. He Cried out in John 7:37b Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
If things are in chronological order in the 6th and 7th seal, and I believe that they are. then a great earthquake happens at the 6th seal in Rev. 6:12.
That's a great warning to all that are bordering on getting right with Jesus. That separates many because at that time the hardened ones get harder. David Wilker preached on the hardening of Pharoah. At first Pharoah hardened his own heart, but the time came when the Lord hardened his heart. Preaching the Gospel does that too. It either softens or hardens.
When Jesus died on the cross the soldier saw the EARTHQUAKE and said. Surely this is the son of God. That man became a believer.
The phrase GREAT EARTHQUAKE is only used 5 times in the Bible. Every one of those times it was an especially created earthquake by God for the occasion. It wasn't a natural type disaster.
1. When Jesus rose from the tomb. A great earthquake came. 2. At midnight Paul and Silas prayed and suddenly there was a great earthquake. 3..Re 6:12 When he had opened the sixth seal. a great earthquake. 4. Re 11:13,, a great earthquake. 5. Re 16:18 ,, a great earthquake.
Right after the sealing of the 144,000, in Rev. 7:9, the multitude that came out of great tribulation are seen. I believe those are the raptured. Then when the seventh seal is opened, that begins the trumpets and there is that space of half hour silence in Rev.8:1. I don't know if that's a marriage feast or welcome home, but I do believe that it has to do with the rapture, and also the calm before the storm, (the wrath of God).
I also believe that God in the past few weeks is opening and unveiling these things to people....
You may be right that it has to do with the last Rapture (the Pre-Wrath Rapture), but not the Pre-Trib Rapture, which is before the 1st seal is broken. However, I thought Heaven and Earth were SILENT while the judge was being seated (i.e., NO TRUMPS sounding). The Tribulation saints are already in Heaven in Rev. 7:14, and judgment starts with the 1st Trumpet judgment in Rev. 8.
Note: Rev. 8:1 says, "And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour." Hab. 2:20 says, "But the LORD is in his holy temple (in Heaven): let all the earth keep silence before him." Isa. 41:1 says, "Keep silence before me, O islands; and let the people renew their strength: let them come near; then let them speak: LET US COME NEAR TOGETHER TO JUDGMENT."
> > I believe that at the last TRUMPETS, plural, the rapture will occur.
How could that be the first Rapture? I Thess. 4:16,17 says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
This is "THE TRUMP," singular. This is the FIRST TRUMP, the Pre-Trib Rapture of the group "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9.
> > 1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
This also is singular. It is THE LAST TRUMP. It sounds to also call the Tribulation saints to the "general assembly" in Heaven (Heb. 12:23). I believe that at that time, all the assembly of saints will receive immortality, "be changed."
These TWO TRUMPS are prefigured in Nu. 10:2-4. It says, " Make thee TWO TRUMPETS of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. And when they shall blow with THEM (plural, i.e., with BOTH trumpets), ALL the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET, then the princes (THE ELDERS of Rev. 4:4), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall GATHER (i.e., be Raptured) themselves unto thee." First, the Bride of Christ is raptured when the FIRST TRUMP sounds before the Tribulation begins. Rev. 4:1 shows that the Tribulation "MUST BE hereafter" the Pre-Trib Rapture. Then at the end of the 2300-day (Dan. 8:14) shortened Tribulation, that same trumpet sounds again. Mt. 24:31 tells us what happens next: "he shall send his angels with a great sound of A TRUMPET (singular), and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of HEAVEN to the other. This gathers the Bride of Christ from all part of Heaven to the "general assembly."
Then the LAST TRUMP sounds (i.e., making both trumpets sounded at this time). The LAST TRUMP gathers the Tribulation saints from the Earth to the "general assembly." Mk. 13:27 says, "then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (the Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of heaven" (those that were caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture). As soon as ALL the saints are present at the "general assembly," they are all changed. The mortal has to take on immortality in actuality, not just be promised as now.
This scene is the gathering of all saints before the Judgment Seat of Christ. All the angels of the 7 churches are there, from "the angel of the church of Ephesus" (Rev. 2:1) to "the angel of the church of the Laodiceans" (Rev. 3:14). Since there are 7 of these angels, and 7 angels sound the 7 trumpets, they may be the same. Rev. 8:2 says, "And I saw "tous," THE seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets." When "the" is used, it usually shows that we have been introduced to these angels before and should know who they are. If it had said that John saw seven angels, they could be just any angels. However, it says, "I saw THE seven angels." We should know who they are, the angels of the 7 churches.
Psa. 149:5-9 agrees. It says, " Let the SAINTS be joyful in glory (Heaven): let them sing aloud upon their beds. Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; TO EXECUTE VENGEANCE upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; TO EXECUTE UPON THEM THE JUDGMENT WRITTEN: THIS HONOUR HAVE ALL HIS SAINTS. Praise ye the LORD."
People who think the Rapture is at the 7th trumpet don't understand this. All the saints are in Heaven BEFORE any of the 7 trumpets sound.
> > Right after the sealing of the 144,000, in Rev. 7:9, the multitude that came out of great tribulation are seen. I believe those are the raptured.
I think they are too. They are the ones caught up in the 2nd Rapture, the Pre-Wrath Rapture. Agape
The Greek word is used for trump is plural and singular alike and cannot be said to be only one ways. It can be translated either way.
...my message on the lines are being drawn on the ten Virgins... below.
I can't recall how many years ago that I first heard the remark that Rev. 4:1, was the rapture of the church. I thought at the time that it was utterly preposterous that anyone could think such a thing. It is obvious to me that John is personally being spoken to there. Through the years this doctrine has caught on and now multitudes of people believe it. I can't see how. To me it's doing violence to the scripture. Making it say something that it simply doesn't say.
I also could not believe in two raptures. I've even heard some say three...I don't see it scripturally. I see one rapture only.
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the SECOND time without sin unto salvation. Love, Mary
The Lines Are Being Drawn on the Ten Virgins Just this past week I believe the Lord is revealing this to me. I believe that the lines are NOW being drawn on the story of the Ten Virgins. We are at the midnight hour.
We're saved only by the blood of Jesus. Those that are truly blood bought will agree with the Spirit.
1 Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the SPIRIT, and the water, and the BLOOD: and these three AGREE in one.
Those that claim to be Christian that are in opposition to the SPIRIT FILLED BELIEVER are on dangerous ground. Those that oppose the work and gifts of the Spirit must awaken and come into the truth of the gospel before it's too late. There are multitudes that name the name of Jesus and have NO relationship with the Lord. Jesus said.
Matt 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish....
I see something growing, that has always been, but now there's emerging a vocal segment that claim Jesus, that are hatefully opposed to the SPIRIT FILLED BELIEVER. The blood and the Spirit AGREE, 1 Jo 5:8.
I believe it shows that those in this position are people that have accepted Jesus intellectually, and yet not allowed him to control their heart. The most important distance in the world. 14-15 inches from your HEAD to your HEART, (surrender).
I believe that there is ONE rapture and that Five wise will go, and five foolish will be LEFT BEHIND.
I used to believe that every one that claimed the blood would go in the rapture. I was wrong. They're not going to make it. They didn't really come in. They said Lord, Lord, but kept their distance from the Lord. They had no intimate repationship with Him.
I believe that the BLOOD has the power to sustain after the rapture for those that see that they've missed it. I believe that multitudes of intellectual believers will be slain for the name of Jesus after the rapture.
Do you NOW have a LOVING RELATIONSHIP going on with the Lord?? That's the question?
Re 20:4 I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
I believe that when the door was shut, and the other virgins, said, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Jesus was saying, "I am not INTIMATELY ACQUAINTED with you." They believed the Lord existed. They were virgins. They were waiting for the bridegroom right along with the other Five wise virgins that had the extra oil.
Five wise virgins and Five foolish virgins. I UNDERSTAND why they're called foolish now. All they had to do was ask the Lord to fill them with his Spirit and pass from foolish to wise.
Are you ready to meet Jesus? Are you filled with his Spirit? Do you have an INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP with Him?
> > Rev 5 :9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect
The trumpet that sounded and got the saints in Rev. 5:9 to Heaven was in Rev. 4:1, which you shut your eyes to. It can also be seen in the Preview of the Rapture in Rev. 1:10. The trumpet for calling the saints to the general assembly in Heb. 12:23 is in Mt. 24:31. Compare with Mk. 13:27.
> > The Greek word is used for trump is plural and singular alike and cannot be said to be only one ways. It can be translated either way.
Are you positive? In both I Cor. 15:52 and I Thess. 4:16, "trumpet" is "salpiggi." In Rev. 8:2, "trumpets" is salpigges."
> > I can't recall how many years ago that I first heard the remark that Rev. 4:1, was the rapture of the church. I thought at the time that it was utterly preposterous that anyone could think such a thing. It is obvious to me that John is personally being spoken to
John is a member of the Church. He also is one of the elders. When he is caught up to Heaven in Rev. 4:1, the next scene we see is 24 elders seated on their thrones in Heaven. Those other 23 elders just got their resurrection bodies and were caught up with John. The 24 are the 12 patriarchs of Israel and the 12 apostles. They are the representatives of all the saints seen around the throne in Heaven in Rev. 5:9. They are there before the 1st seal is broken in Rev. 6. When do you think they got to Heaven?
Multitudes believe this because it agrees with all the rest of Scripture. Isa. 57:1 says, "The righteous perisheth (abad, escapes), and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are TAKEN AWAY, none considering that the righteous is taken away FROM the evil to come."
In Lu. 21:36, Jesus said, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."
Rev. 3:10 says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee FROM the hour of temptation (peirasmou, trial, i.e., the Tribulation), which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
> > I also could not believe in two raptures. I've even heard some say three...I see one rapture only.
There are 3, if you count the Rapture of the 2 witnesses Mid-Trib. There in Rev. 11:12, we are shown what happens when we hear the Lord say, "Come up hither" as in Rev. 4:1. When the two witnesses heard it, they "ascended up to heaven." So will we.
There are 2 Raptures and 2 types. The type of the Pre-Trib Rapture is Enoch. Gen. 5:24 says, "And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him." The type of the Pre-Wrath Rapture is Elijah. II Ki. 2:11 says, "behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
> > Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the SECOND time without sin unto salvation.
Those that are LOOKING FOR HIM, (I'm looking for Him) to them will he appear the SECOND TIME. Once they are in Heaven, there will be no 3rd time for them, only the 2nd time for the Tribulation saints, which includes those foolish Laodicean virgins who have to get caught up to Heaven at a later time. They have to be believers, because they are classed as virgins. They are just lukewarm, so Christ said, "I will spue (emesai, vomit) thee out of my mouth" (i.e., be temporarily cut off from the Body of Christ). He warned them, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent" (Rev. 3:19). Too bad if they don't take his warning and get cut off to be chastened. By the time they get caught up to Heaven in Rev. 7:9, they will have "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Those caught up the 1st time are wearing white robes.
Lu. 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant (the foolish one) will come in a day when he LOOKETH NOT FOR HIM, and at an hour when he is NOT AWARE, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (2300 days of the Tribulation, Dan. 8:14) with the unbelievers." Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
I don't plan on being one of those weeping and gnashing their teeth. I am looking for the Lord.
> > The most important distance in the world. 14-15 inches from your HEAD to your HEART, (surrender).
> > I used to believe that every one that claimed the blood would go in the rapture. I was wrong.
Are you saying that anyone that claims the blood of Christ will be kept out of Heaven totally? If not, when do you think those left behind the 1st time get to Heaven?
> > Do you NOW have a LOVING RELATIONSHIP going on with the Lord??
Yes. Definitely. I love Him with all my heart.
> > I UNDERSTAND why they're called foolish now. All they had to do was ask the Lord to fill them with his Spirit and pass from foolish to wise.
Then why does I Jn. 1:9 say, "IF"? It says, "IF we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." What happens to the level of the Spirit of Christ in us if we don't confess our sins and get back in fellowship with our Holy God? Why does I Thess. 5:19 say, "Quench not the Spirit"?
> > Are you ready to meet Jesus? Are you filled with his Spirit? Do you have an INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP with Him?
Yes! Yes! Yes! Are you ready? Agape
P.S. Your Site is making a difference and what blessings I have received. God's blessing upon your household Marilyn!
To: email@example.com. Subject: APOSTASIA
What's up with you dude? You need to chill a little! If you want to make a point among Christians tell us what the Word sez...line upon line...precept upon precept. Allow His Word and His Spirit to teach us/lead us unto all truth. You are coming off like you are standing on some brassy preacher's hardened heart and his emotional beliefs. Base your concepts on establishedfacts/scriptures/ references, etc. It is allowing Christ to work through us that brings about change.
To any Christian who has come unto the fullness of Christ (His Word), you do not need to convince us that apostasy (a falling away of God's Word) exists within the church of today. Apostasy began before the last apostle died and has waxed and waned on earth ever since. Jesus even warns you and I in His Word through His teachings. For example, on wheat and tares, Jews that aren't Jews, and a future (tribulational) time where apostasy and persecution will rule the nations. But God...Mighty in deed and rich in His Plan for Mankind, is in control and well able to bring mankind to repentance. He wishes none to perish...He knows who are His, who are tares, who are not Jews, and, he even commands us to NOT dig up the tares. We are to TEST the spirits...Not JUDGE the Saints. Judgement is of the L0RD. Judge not...least you be judged. Christians are not to be exhorcising other Christians or rebuking each other where the world (unsaved or baby Christians) maybe watching. Our striving against each other contribute much to that apostasy you feel so strongly about! Greater still, if your attitude and self judgmental strivings within the Body of Christ cause just one "little one" to "fall away", well then, where will that leave you on judgement day? I pray it will be a crown instead of a mill stone. Please understand, it is all about our love for one another. Read 2 Tim. 3:16-17 again and again. Add love and "the man of God may be complete and proficient, well fitted and thoroughly equipped for every good work. Agape'.
P.S. As a WATCHER, I belong to that group of WATCHER's who also agree with APOSTASIA as meaning "the departure", i.e., "the rapture". Apostacion, "divorcement/separation", and apospao, "draw away. Do not use 2 Thess. 2:2-3 as your Scripture to make your point concerning today's existing apostasy within the church. Christ says it best, "REPENT, REPENT, REPENT, REPENT, REPENT, and REPENT". Six times to six lampstands/churches (Rev. 2 and 3). John also wrote in Rev 22:11, "He who is unrighteous (unjust, wicked), let him be unrighteous still; and he who is filthy (vile, impure), let him be filthy still; and he who is righteous (just, upright, in right standing with God), let him do right still; and he who is holy, let him be holy still. Let the Angels gather the unrighteous and separate the wheat from the tares least we dig up or harm God's own.
Chad, as a matter of my strong suggestion, I would certainly remove your curses from Mrs. Agee and all the others you have cursed this instant least yourself fall into a snare and be swallowed by your own written words. It is easier and more profitable to walk in love. He says so...just do it! I welcome your response but let us move towards agreement.
Seems they are trying to pull back on some of the recent "permissiveness" in the Catholic Church, particularly the American Catholic Church.
POPE DECLARES VATICAN 'MOTHER' OF ALL CHRISTIAN CHURCHES, 9-3-00
AP: One of Pope John Paul II's closest aides has written to bishops worldwide declaring that the Catholic church is the "mother'' of other Christian churches, a move which could hurt Vatican efforts toward unity with other believers. The Vatican Saturday had no comment on the document, which was reported on Friday by the Italian religious news agency Adista. In the document, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger told the bishops that it was incorrect to refer to Christian churches, ranging from Orthodox to Protestant, as "sister'' churches of the Catholic church. "It must be always clear that the one, holy, catholic and apostolic universal church is not the sister, but the mother of all the churches,'' Ratzinger was quoted as saying. The term "sister churches'' often is used in dialogue aimed at fostering closer ties among Christians. John Paul has made steps toward unity with other Christians, a key goal of his papacy in Christianity's third millennium.
Since then, two other moms of little girls have said basically the same thing. This is amazing. Here they are:
1. Kelly posted on the Five Doves site: "I have a 3-year-old little girl, and she said that Jesus is coming in the clouds and we are going to be flying up to meet Him in the sky, plus she was talking about angels in the sky with Jesus. What is so amazing is that she came out with it on her own, nobody was talking about this subject and she just came out and said it."
2. Deborah, in the UK, says: "In May my little girl announced to me this (I recorded it): 'Jesus is coming to meet me! He's coming to say hello! He's coming soon! He's coming to meet you too!'" Deborah adds, "She'll be 3 years old this 1st October. Actually she was born on the evening Rosh Hashanah started in 1997... At the time she said it we were watching a TV programme about Easter and the Resurrection. Later I thought she was practically quoting 1 Thess. 4:14-17 - although to my knowledge she's never heard that."
All this from 2-4-year-old children. Also, a friend wrote and said just a day or two earlier that the Lord had given her this confirming verse, "Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?" (Matthew 21:16).
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