Pro and Con 598

Posted 9-13-00

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Re: More on the temple mount
Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz: "Israel is not ruling out the possibility of acceding to a proposal by Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat to place sovereignty on the Temple Mount in the hands of a body consisting of the permanent members of the United Nations Security Council and the Jerusalem Committee of the Islamic Organization Conference. Under this idea, which is still being formulated, the joint body would confer on Arafat the jurisdiction over the Temple Mount and appoint him custodian of the Islamic holy places. Israel would retain sovereignty over the Western Wall and work out with the Palestinians and representatives of the Jerusalem Committee arrangements for the day-to-day administration of the compound, including security, worship for Jews and so forth. Despite the pessimistic tone that has been emanating from the prime minister's entourage lately, a senior diplomatic source said last night that for the first time Arafat is showing readiness to negotiate about arrangements on the Temple Mount..."

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Re: Out of the mouths of babes
Because you are so kind to allow me to share dreams and visions with you, here are the most amazing ones yet, and they are NOT my dreams and visions....

All of this involves two of my three Children, and all are simulataneous, ONLY the LORD could possibly be in control of this, with the Third Person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit living in all members of my household. I am so blessed once again to Glorify the FATHER, by describing this!

As background, as I look back on ALL of the dreams and visions I have had, they have one thing in common, they always occur on a Sunday Morning. I had not noticed this before.

Let me start with my oldest child, who is seven years old, Spirit Filled beyond any doubt, and does prayer (on her own) already! On Sunday morning, September 10th, my wife and I heard her cry out in JOY and LAUGHTER in her sleep. I did not ask her about this the next day, she described her dream out of nowhere to me. She correctly described Rev 7:3 and 7:4. She saw the 144,000 who were sealed, who were set apart. She saw many, many creatures attacking all the people of the earth, EXCEPT the 144,000 who were sealed. Now the proofs of this being from the Lord. She called the attacking creatures "ticks". She DOES not know what a tick is, and has never said this word in her life. I looked up tick in the dictionary too, because I did not really know either. A tick is an arachnid, that is of the family of spiders and scorpions. So she saw scorpions, which is right out of the scripture. Now consider this, she is TERRIFIED of spiders and anything like a scorpion or tick. I mean screaming raving terrified. I have had to swat many spiders in our house, to stop her terror. So how did she react to a dream of many, many terrifying arachnids. By crying out in JOY and LAUGHTER! I do not mean she is gloating in the judgement of others, she is filled with the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, because there is no way she could be emotionally stable during such a terrifying vision.

Next up consider my middle child. She is five years old, can NOT read, could NEVER know specific scriptures. She is a little innocent child, sucks her thumb, watches Winnie the Pooh, clings to her mom's skirt, weighs around 45 pounds, and is a very small innocent child. She has the Holy Spirit dwelling in her and loves to jump in my arms, and pray to Jesus Christ with me. Praise the LORD. She had a dream the same night as my oldest child, Sunday September 10. She accurately described Rev 7:9. She said all those who had been carried up to Heaven in BOTH Raptures were there with her. (She already knows there are two Raptures, the Holy Spirit spoke to her, and I did not condition her or drive it into her mind through some kind of mind conditioning or repetition) Now she next correctly described Rev 8:3. She said we (our household and all the saints) pray EVERY day now that we are in heaven. She correctly described Rev 7:9-11. Jesus Christ was there among all the saints and hosts of Heaven. We all prayed and worshiped together. Now again I ask you to consider who is describing this...This is a little child who can not even read, especially the Bible. Agape

My reply

Thanks for sharing this with us.

> > She said all those who had been carried up to Heaven in BOTH Raptures were there with her.

Amazing. Yes. Out of the mouths of babes. Agape

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G'day, Been to your website. Just want to compliment you on lots of good source material. It will take me weeks to sift through it all. I came from another site by reference to "The Mind-boggling Catastrophe Before Adam's Creation ". Interesting stuff, especially about the planet Rahab. What you write re-inforces the importance of always returning to the original languages. It is amazing how the translators seem to get it so badly wrong at times. I have always wondered about the planet that should be where the asteroid belt is, especially with the scriptural references to the "War in Heaven".

I also spent a lot of time in Velikovsky's books looking at his references. Wonderful source material, as long as you separate his facts and references from some of his wilder interpretations of them. I also never thought about the 1967 re-taking of the Temple mount from being trodden under foot by the gentiles either. 2007. Very thought provoking! You are very brave to go to this extent and stick your neck out. One other thing you might consider. At some time in the past, the year was 360 days long. Something happened, and it settled down to our 365 and a 1/4 days. This seems to have occurred some time in the 7th or 8th Century BC. I don't know how this would effect calculations. (I don't claim to be an expert in these matters).

Some would also say that the BC/AD hiatus is in some error, and that Christ was born in the Spring of 3/4 BC, which also throws out some of the calcs somewhat. I try not to place too much trust in the things of Rome as they have been known to get other things horribly wrong from time to time. Nevertheless, I'm ready whenever he comes. One final thing, why do you have a pentagram on your website? The one that has a magenta circle, with a green 5 pointed star and a gold key inside it? I assume that you understand the significance of this?? I fully understand that this is somebody else's logo and not yours, but I do find it intriguing nevertheless. May the Lord richly bless you, Sincerely

My reply

I'm not sure the year changed from 360 to 365.25 days, as some claim. We find references that fit the 360 days (or 30-day months) in both the 1st and last books of the Bible (Gen. 7:11,24; Rev. 11:2,3; 12:6,14; 13:5). That seems consistent to me. I think the year is the same now as then, and these depict actual day counts according to the Jewish calendar.

This locks in the dates, for the count of the days between 2 points don't add up to these figures unless you find the right Jewish year/years to count the actual number of days from one point to another. For instance, the 2300 days of Dan. 8:14 do not fit well any other time we have left for the shortened 70th week of Daniel within the 40 years since 1967 except counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning from the Feast of Weeks Sivan 6, 5761 (May 28, 2001) to the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007). You can't shift it one year in either direction.

If we did have a change from a 360 to 365-day year, the only thing I can think of big enough to do it was when Lot came out of Sodom. At that time, I think an asteroid impacted Earth and split it forming the Great Rift Valley. It runs from Turkey down the Jordan and on to Lake Nyassa in Africa. That would have happened about BC 1936, 1 year before Isaac was born in 2108 AH (BC 1935).

> > Some would also say that the BC/AD hiatus is in some error, and that Christ was born in the Spring of 3/4 BC, which also throws out some of the calcs somewhat

It doesn't if you figure from BC 5, when I think Christ was born as the former rain on Tishri 1. Hos. 6:3 says, "the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." The former rain starts Tishri 1. The latter rain starts Nisan 1. I think those are the dates of the First and Second Advents.

This agrees with Eze. 29:17,21. The date is given in v. 17: "in the first month, in the first day of the month (Nisan 1, Eze. 45:18,21), the word of the LORD came unto me." Then v. 21 says, "In that day will I cause the horn (king) of the house of Israel to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth (i.e., Logos, Word) in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD."

> > I'm ready whenever he comes.

Me too.

> > why do you have a pentagram on your website? The one that has a magenta circle, with a green 5 pointed star and a gold key inside it? I assume that you understand the significance of this?

It was an award my web site got. I do not know the significance. Please fill me in on that. There are many good Christian links at that site. Agape

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Ancient City Found In India Irradiated By Nuclear Blast 8,000 Years Ago: Excerpt from the World Island Review, January 1992. 9-10-00

Radiation still so intense, the area is highly dangerous. A heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India, covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur....

The...Indian government has now cordoned off the region. Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people...

The Mahabharata clearly describes a catastrophic blast that rocked the continent. "A single projectile charged with all the power in the Universe...An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as 10,000 suns, rose in all its was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes an entire race.

"The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. Their hair and nails fell out, pottery broke without any apparent cause, and the birds turned white.

"After a few hours, all foodstuffs were infected. To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves into the river."

Archeologist Francis Taylor says that etchings in some nearby temples he has managed to translate suggest that they prayed to be spared from the great light that was coming to lay ruin to the city. "It's so mid-boggling to imagine that some civilization had nuclear technology before we did. The radioactive ash adds credibility to the ancient Indian records that describe atomic warfare."

Construction has halted while the five member team conducts the investigation...

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THE Pope carried out an impromptu exorcism on a teenage girl after she began "screaming insults in a cavernous voice" during an audience in the Vatican City...

Despite the Pope's efforts and those of his chief "Satan-buster", Fr Gabriele Amorth, the girl remained "possessed". The Devil's voice "sneeringly laughed from within her" at the Pope's failed attempt to drive him away.

"The Devil went to the Vatican," the Il Messaggero newspaper in Rome reported after being told of the incident by Fr Amorth. He said the exorcism had been the Pope's third in his 22-year papacy.

The paper said that although there may have been other instances of people being possessed in the Vatican, last week's incident had been "spectacular" and Satan had "shown his muscles". The incident occurred during last Wednesday's general audience in a packed St Peter's Square. Suddenly the unnamed 19-year-old girl from Monza began shouting "in a cavernous voice and as if in a fit of rage".

Constrained by Vatican guards, she was said to have displayed "a super-human strength" as she violently pushed them away. Bishop Gianni Danzi, Secretary-General of Vatican City, intervened and sought to calm her by showed her a crucifix. But she began "insulting him, uttering disconnected phrases, and speaking in unknown tongues".

Bishop Danzi hurriedly informed the Pope's private secretary, Mgr Stanislao Dziwisz, who in turn told the pontiff. After driving around the piazza in his Popemobile, the Pope talked to the girl, exorcised her, and stayed with her for half an hour. He prayed for her and assured her that he would say a Mass for her the next day "to obtain her liberation".

But it appeared afterwards that the Pope's intervention had only a temporary effect on the girl. She was said to have been "possessed since she was 12", as a result of someone putting a curse on her out of hatred for her parents.

She had been taken by her mother and father to the audience in the hope that a papal blessing would be of some benefit.

Fr Amorth claimed that the Vatican had attempted to cover up the affair. He said: "I exorcised the very same girl on [the day before the indident] together with another exorcist, Fr Giancarlo Gramolazzo.

"She is a splendid girl in terms of purity and goodness. Her case of possession by the Devil is terrible. It moves one to pity to see her suffer so, all bent over and contracted."

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Re: Rewards
Your premise for a split rapture is based on the faithful and forgiven and watchful Christians going in the Pre-trib rapture and on to be the Bride, while those who are yet saved, but are carnal, spewed out, wicked servants or foolish virgens have been "rewarded" the tribulation and the Pre wrath rapture. Then we are all gathered to the Judgement seat of Christ (and the wedding for those in the Pre-trib and the 144k in the pre-wrath rapture)

I am wondering if this is like double jeopardy for the saved who go into the tribulation having been pre-judged as not worthy of the Pre-trib rapture and yet will go to the Judgement seat where everybody's life will be evaluated thoroughly for the good and bad we have done since being saved.

In this case we are all being judged again at the real judgement seat mentioned in Scripture.

Just wondering, in light of Dan Rystedt's post today, and your reply, if it could possibly be that all will go in the pre-trib rapture and then all will be rewarded according to our works. Some going on to be the Bride and some being cast into outer darkness, weeping, wailing etc. or the blackness of darkness, (both = obscurity from the light of the Kingdom of heaven rewards) according to their works.

Then there could be a 2nd rapture of all the newly saved and/or sealed Tribulation Saints at the Pre-wrath rapture or ressurection. I hope you and Ed are doing well. I copy and read all of your PCs and will be eternally grateful for your wake up call of over 2 years ago. I believe you have caused many to get into the Word of God and recognize the beauty of Carnal Christians being saved along with those chosen and faithful and all being rewarded with eternal life. These are just some thoughts I have had and I am no Bible scholar. I do see many believing Christians losing rewards for misplacing or replacing Israel, Jerusalem, and the Jew with their disregard in their current and endtimes beliefs.

I have the utmost respect for your in-depth evaltation of the scriptures. Your love has opened the eyes of many. Just think P/C # 600 is coming soon. So is our Lord and Saviour, Jesus. In his love

My reply

It sure is nice to hear from you again. Thanks for your kind words.

> > I am wondering if this is like double jeopardy for the saved who go into the tribulation having been pre-judged as not worthy of the Pre-trib rapture and yet will go to the Judgement seat where everybody's life will be evaluated thoroughly for the good and bad we have done since being saved.

Rev. 3:29 shows that the Laodiceans are rebuked and chastened. They are told what to do, "be zealous therefore, and repent." Paul was working for the PRIZE of the Rapture. Phil. 3:14 says, "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." When we run in a race, one wins the prize and one does not.

I don't think that means that the one that does not win is put in double jeopardy at the Judgment Seat of Christ. He just got a 2nd chance to repent and wash his robes and make them white in the blood of Christ. Heb. 12:14 says, "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord." Rev. 21:27 says of New Jerusalem, "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." If some miss the 1st time, they are lucky to have a 2nd chance.

> > if it could possibly be that all will go in the pre-trib rapture and then all will be rewarded according to our works. Some going on to be the Bride and some being cast into outer darkness, weeping, wailing

The lukewarm Laodiceans are spued out of Christ's mouth in Rev. 3:16 BEFORE the "Come up hither" in Rev. 4:1. I don't see how they will be going the 1st time. I think the "outer darkness" of Mt. 22:13 means the man without a wedding garment is cast outside Heaven's door at the 1st Rapture. The Greek means outside of doors darkness.

> > I do see many believing Christians losing rewards for misplacing or replacing Israel, Jerusalem, and the Jew with their disregard in their current and endtimes beliefs.

Yes. Israel is literal Israel. Rev. 3:9 says, "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee." Agape

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what is the difference between the "7 bad years " and the" tribulation"?From what I undrerstood, the 7 bad years start on the 13th of September and the Tribulation starts on 28th of may of this year(2,000).I know that the Tribulation is to be shortened,so it can't be a whole 7 bad years.

Keep up your good work of informing the people. I'm sure that you'll be remembered with whom it counts.

My reply

It is my understanding that the 7 good years started when the Oslo Accords were signed Sept. 13, 1993. If so, they end Sept. 13, 2000. The 7 bad years would end Sept. 13, 2007. I think this is the Day of God's Wrath, the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. That is the day like no other day ever, the day of Jacob's trouble (Dan. 12:1). It is also the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture and the day the asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 impact Earth.

The 70th week of Daniel 9 seems to start on the Feast of Weeks/Pentecost, Sivan 6, 5761 (May 28, 2001, NOT 2000) and run through the Feast of Unleavened Bread, Nisan 15, 5768 (Apr. 20, 2008). That 2520 days is shortened for the elect's sake, and not for those that are not believers, Mt. 24:22. I think the shortened Tribulation is the 2300 days of Dan. 8:14, including the 1260 days when the Jews can sacrifice and the 1040 days when they can't because the False Prophet desecrates the temple Mid-Trib. From the Feast of Weeks in 2001 to the Feast of Trumpets in 2007, counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning, is 2300 days.

I think the Judgment of the Nations follows the full 7-year/2520-day Tribulation. At that point, I expect dominion to be taken from Satan and Armageddon to begin. It is Satan's last ditch stand, a war between Christ's army and Satan's army. At it's end, Satan is chained. Agape

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Vatican Declares Catholicism Sole Path to Salvation, By RICHARD BOUDREAUX, LARRY B. STAMMER, Times Staff Writers: VATICAN CITY. Censuring what it called the spread of "religious relativism," the Vatican on Tuesday instructed Roman Catholics to uphold the dogma that their church is the sole path to spiritual salvation for all humanity....

The bluntly worded declaration by the Vatican office that oversees Catholic doctrine said that followers of non-Christian faiths have "gravely deficient" chances for salvation and that other Christian churches have "defects," partly because they do not recognize the authority of the pope.

Aimed mainly at Catholic theologians, the 36-page document was the latest parry by Vatican conservatives in a test of strength with liberals in John Paul's deeply divided flock....

A similar fundamentalist position prevailed in June when the Vatican ordered bishops to avoid references to "sister churches" and instead remember that "the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church is not sister but 'mother' of all the particular [Christian] churches."

Msgr. Tarcisio Bertone, who signed Tuesday's document as secretary of the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, said it had John Paul's explicit approval.

But the document, titled "Dominus Iesus," or "Lord Jesus," underlined a contradiction of John Paul's 22-year-old reign: No other pope has worked harder to mend rifts between Christian churches and promote understanding with non-Christian religions, yet he has rigidly upheld church dogma and traditions that antagonize other faiths....

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the powerful German prefect of the doctrinal congregation and chief author of the document, said that those theologians were "manipulating and exceeding" the principle of religious tolerance by putting all religions on an equal level, "as if universal and objective truth no longer existed."

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Re: Chesvan 23. I have been a student of your book and your website. I have found something interesting in I Kings 12:32. Jeroboam was a wicked king of Israel. He ordained a feast on the eight month (Chesvan) on the fifteenth day of the month. He (like Satan) was trying to falsely copy the true feast of Tabernacles. The feast of Tabernacles was from the 15th to the 22nd. The 23rd was called the Shimini Atzaret (the 8th day). That day is the very middle of the tribulation, Chesvan 23, 5765, November 7th, 2004 according to your book. I always wondered if there would be a foreshadowing of that date mentioned in the Bible. I (we) have found one.

The feast of Tabernacles is referred to as a "season of our joy". This copycat period will be a "season of grief". On the feast of Tabernacles they celebrate the death of Liv Yaton (the false Messiah--leviathan--7 headed beast). At this time the leviathan will be just getting into full swing. The feast of Tabernacles is a festival of lights---this will be a season of darkness. The contrasts abound.The information about the feast of Tabernacles I gleaned from Joseph Good's Hatikvah Ministries. I hope you also find this interesting. It is another date to"lock-in" your time sequence. Agape

My reply

Thanks for calling this to my attention. It certainly would fit the activities of the Satan-possessed False Prophet.

I got out my chart and the Jewish Calendar to check it out, because I thought the 8th day of Tabernacles was the 22nd. That is right. First day would be Tishri 15, 2nd would be 16, 3rd would be 17, 4th would be 18, 5th would be 19, 6th would be 20, 7th would be 21, and 8th would be 22.

Then I looked at my chart. I had the 1260th DAY of the Tribulation as Cheshvan 23, 5765, when the False Prophet is in the temple. That is one day too soon for the False Prophet. I don't know why I didn't catch that before now. That 1260th day would be the LAST day of the prophesying of the two witnesses. The NEXT day would be the 1st day of the 2nd 1260 days. I always thought that the easiest mistake to make was one day, and here I did it. I was just trying to find the middle of the Tribulation. Then, I put the False Prophet in the Temple that day. Actually, he would go to the temple the next day. Sorry I did that, but I'm really glad to find out the right thing. That is more important. Agape

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In Pastor Riley's Newsletter, "The Whole Counsel of God," he said, "In Revelation 6:1-2 John was shown a rider on "a white horse" holding a "bow." The rider, considered in the context, obviously represents the Antichrist as he comes on the world scene and begins his rise to power. Many fanciful interpretations have been put forth in regards to the "bow" that he holds. But look at the illustration at the beginning of this article. See the staff that the Pope is holding. Anyone that has studied the Roman religion knows that the Pope's staff is officially known as "the Papal bow."

In Greg Alson's Newsletter, "The Prophecy Post," he said,
Celestial Seas
In addition to the third heaven, there is of necessity a first and second heaven. The first heaven is the atmospheric, which includes the clouds roughly nine miles above the surface of the earth (Genesis 1:8, 1 Thessalonians 4:17). The second is the galactic heavens represented by the stars and planets (Genesis 1:14; 22:17, Isaiah 13:10) and the third heaven is the celestial home of God, untold light years to the north (Isaiah 14:13; 66:1). These three are referenced in the first chapter of Genesis verses 6-8: "'Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.' Thus God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament heaven..." The firmament, as the text says, is heaven (the sky), dividing "the waters from the waters." Beneath the firmament, on the surface of the earth, lies one body of water as God described it in Genesis 1:6-8. The other body of water is above the firmament, between the second and third heavens as described above."

I once thought of the 3 heavens as Greg does, because of Scofield's note. However, I now think the 3 heavens of II Cor. 12:2 are Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. Paul was caught up to the 3rd heaven.

I now see another possibility concerning the "firmament."

Gen. 1:6-8 says, "God said, Let there be a FIRMAMENT in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the FIRMAMENT, and divided the waters which were under the FIRMAMENT from the waters which were above the FIRMAMENT: and it was so. And God called the FIRMAMENT Heaven. Verses 14-17 say, "God said, Let there be lights in the FIRMAMENT of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the FIRMAMENT of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the FIRMAMENT of the heaven to give light upon the earth."

Firmament is "raqiya," an expanse of space. Strong's says, "prop. an expanse." The NIV translates it "expanse" in Gen. 1:14: "Let there be lights in the EXPANSE of the sky to separate the day from the night." The Sun and Moon are in this expanse of space. Therefore, the waters that are above this firmament are above the Sun and Moon. They cannot be part of our atmosphere.

Psa. 104:1-3 says, "O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain (of the Tabernacle): Who layeth the beams of HIS CHAMBERS in THE WATERS (the waters above the firmament, i.e., the rings of Saturn): who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind." Psa. 148:4 says, "Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye WATERS that be above the heavens" (i.e., above Mars and Jupiter).

In Ezekiel 1 and 10, I think the cherubim represent Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars, the terrestrial planets. Heaven is over their heads, farther out in space. Eze. 10:1 says, "in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubims there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne." Sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanscrit sani, Saturn, and priya, dear.

I think Saturn is the place of Christ's throne. Eze. 1:26 says, "And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it."

Eze. 1:27,28 says, "I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn is golden), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (the equator) even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had BRIGHTNESS ROUND ABOUT (i.e., Saturn's rings). As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the BRIGHTNESS ROUND ABOUT." In Gen. 9:13, God told Noah, "I do set MY BOW in the cloud."

It seems to me that the "waters which were above the firmament" in Gen. 1:7 refer to the "sea of glass like unto crystal" (krustallos, ice crystals) (Rev. 4:6) surrounding Saturn and forming its ring system. Eze. 1:22 has "crystal" (qerach, ice). Gen. 2:1 says, "Thus the HEAVENS and the EARTH were finished."

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Updated 9-13-00