Pro and Con 60, Uploaded 2-6-98

Incoming Email

...the interview on Nashville radio...We couldn't get the station here, 75 miles west of Nashville, so we drove there this morning to here the interview. we think you did an excellent job with your answers and attitude shown. I thought when the interviews started, Marilyn sounds like she's from Tennessee to me. We can never hide our accent from anybody. Just wanted you to know we enjoyed the interview and we went by a book store and bought your book, "Revelations 2000". Now anxious to read it....

Incoming Email

...Jesus is what the word became. That is, Jesus is the expression and embodiment of the eternal wisdom and and word of God. The word is an "it" until the birth of Jesus. Jesus is then God's wisdom as a human being. There is no literal preexistence in Matt, Mark and Luke.. None in the OT pre-portrait of the Messiah. None in Acts. None also in John UNLESS we read that the eternal word was a PERSON before the incarnation. That is the issue....

My reply

I think that the Word was a PERSON before the incarnation. The Son of God is referred to in the Old Testament. Proverbs 30:4,5 says, "Who that ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name (YHVH), and what is his son's name if thou canst tell?" (Yeshua/Jesus).

Yeshua is the YHVH of hosts in Isa. 44:6: "Thus saith the LORD (YHVH) the King of Israel, AND his redeemer the LORD (YHVH) of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

Yeshua said, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY" (Rev. 1:8). He also said, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first (YHVH the King of Israel) and the last" (YHVH of hosts), Rev. 22:13.

It goes back to De. 6:4: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD (YHVH) our God (Elohim, plural) is one (echad, properly: united) LORD (YHVH)."

II Cor. 5:19 explains, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself." Mt. 1:23 says, "they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

What is the difference between the Lord of the Old Testament and the Lord of the New Testament? "the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" (John 1:14), "a body hast thou prepared me" (Heb. 10:5).

Truly, "IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life" (John 1:1-4).

Isa. 48:12,13 says, "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first (Lord of the Old Testament), I also am the last (Lord of the New Testament). Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together."

In Isa. 48:16, YHVH of hosts speaks, "Come ye near unto ME, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, AND his Spirit, hath sent ME" (YHVH of hosts).

Isa. 45:21-23 says, "who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD (YHVH)? and there is no God else beside me; a just God AND a Saviour (i.e., the Redeemer, Yeshua); there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."

Rom. 14:10,11 says, "we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God."

Phil 2:5-11 says, "Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is ABOVE EVERY NAME: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord (Kurios, supreme in authority, God), to the glory of God the Father."

Isa. 9:6,7 says, "For unto us a child is born (his human nature, inherited from his mother), unto us a son is given (his deity, from his Father): and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD (YHVH) of hosts will perform this."

His reply

> It goes back to De. 6:4: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD (YHVH) our God (Elohim, plural)
> is one (echad, properly: united) LORD (YHVH)."

...about Echad...on what authority does it mean "a united", i.e. plural something? Hebrew Lexicons define echad as "one single". When the spies came back they came with "one single" bunch of grapes. Echad means one and God is One Lord. "Abraham was one" (echad). God is described by the singular pronoun "I" and "Me" "Thee" and "Thou" thousands of times. That is the way language tells us that One Person is involved....Jesus is the Son of God. Rev 1:8 is a reference to the Father "the Almighty". In that immediate context in Rev 1:6 it is the Father, not Jesus, who is the "the one who is and is to come." Paul said that "there is One God, the Father." (I Cor 8:6). That is a neat and simple description of the One God. Jesus is the Lord Messiah, the adoni ("my lord") of Ps 110:1 who is distinct from Yahweh the One God. You cannot have 2 Yahweh's who are equal. That is not monotheism. Jesus was not omniscient (but God is) and Jesus still has the Father as "his God." One who has a GOD cannot himself be equally God! God cannot die, but Jesus died. God cannot be tempted, but Jesus was.

My reply

> Echad....on what authority does it mean "a united", i.e. plural something?

#259 in Strong's Concordance says, "prop. united."

It is not necessarily plural, but it may be two (or more) things united into one. Echad is used in Gen. 2:24, "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one (echad) flesh." Two become one.

Echad is used in Gen. 3:22: "And the LORD (YHVH) God said, Behold, the man is become as one (echad) of us, to know good and evil." It is used in Gen. 11:6: "And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one (echad)." It is used in Ex. 26:6: "And thou shalt make fifty taches of gold, and couple the curtains together with the taches: and it shall be one (echad) tabernacle." Two panels of 5 widths each become one tabernacle.

Echad is used in II Sam. 7:23: "What one (echad, united) nation in the earth (United States, "one nation, under God"?) is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you (Israel) great things and terrible."...

John 8:24-28, Jesus said, "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE, ye shall die in your sins....They understood not that he spake to them of THE FATHER. Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I AM HE."

> Rev 1:8 is a reference to the Father "the Almighty". In that immediate context in Rev 1:6
> it is the Father, not Jesus, who is the "the one who is and is to come."

It is Jesus Christ, the one who "is to come" at the Second Advent as "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS" (Rev. 19:16). As Isa. 9:6 says, "his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father."

> Paul said that "there is One God, the Father." (I Cor 8:6).

I Cor. 8:6 says, "But to us there is but one God, the Father, OF whom are all things, and we IN him; AND one Lord Jesus Christ, BY whom are all things, and we BY him." Give some thought to why it says, "the Father, OF whom are all things" and "Christ, BY whom are all things." Also think about why it says of the Father, "and we IN him," and of Christ, "and we BY him."

> Jesus is the Lord Messiah, the adoni ("my lord") of Ps 110:1 who is distinct
> from Yahweh the One God. You cannot have 2 Yahweh's who are equal.

Not two--one. In John 10:30,38, Jesus said, "I and my Father are one...the Father is in me, and I in him."

> Jesus was not omniscient

Col. 2:8,9 says, "Christ. For in him dwelleth ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD BODILY."

> God cannot die, but Jesus died.

Jesus was "Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us....and he called his name JESUS" (Mt. 1:23, 25). He was both man and God. Only the man could die, and he did it to save you and me from having to die for our own sins.

Give him credit for who he really is, the Almighty, the Word who "was God" and "was made flesh, and dwelt among us" for "The same was in the beginning with God (John 1:1,2,14).

"Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life" (I John 5:20).

"Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding ALL THINGS BY THE WORD OF HIS POWER, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down ON the right hand of the Majesty on high" (Heb. 1:3).

"The LORD (YHVH) hath made bare HIS HOLY ARM in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God" (Isa. 52:10); "and to whom is the ARM OF THE LORD (YHVH) revealed?" (Isa. 53:1)--to Israel at his First Advent--to "all the nations" at his Second Advent.

At the First Advent, "he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed" (Isa. 53:5), and "whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16).

His reply

He quoted another:
> >...In Exodus 3:2 the angel of the LORD is referred to. In Exodus 3:4 that same being is
> >"God". So in Exodus 3 the angel of the LORD (in my view the pre-incarnate Jesus) is God.

My reply

In my view, the pre-incarnate Jesus also. He seems to have dealt with mankind from the beginning.

Ex. 3:2-6,14,16 says, "the angel of the LORD (YHVH) APPEARED unto him (Moses) in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush...And when the LORD (YHVH) saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses...Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God....And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you....Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, The LORD (YHVH) God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, APPEARED unto me."

John 1:18 says, "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

Also, "when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD (YHVH) APPEARED to Abram, and said unto him, I am THE ALMIGHTY GOD" (Gen. 17:1).

In Rev. 1:8, Jesus said, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending (i.e., the first, ["the LORD {YHVH} the King of Israel"] and the last ["his redeemer the LORD {YHVH} of hosts," Isa. 44:6), saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY."

Gen. 18:1,2,22; 19:1 says, "the LORD (YHVH) APPEARED unto him (Abraham) ...And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him...And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD (YHVH)....AND there came TWO ANGELS to Sodom at even."

> There is no hint that the Messiah is the OT angel of the Lord.

See Rev. 1:8 and Isa. 44:6.

> Where in the OT is there a hint that Messiah will be a second coeternal GOD?

He is not a "second." Jesus said, "I and my Father are one....the Father is in me, and I in him" (John 10:30,37).

De. 6:4 says, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD (YHVH) our God is one (echad, properly: united) LORD (YHVH)."

In Mt. 28:19, the disciples were told, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name (singular, one name) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

In Heaven, "the throne (one throne) of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his (singular) servants shall serve him (singular): And they shall see his face (one face); and his name (one name) shall be in their foreheads" (Rev. 22:3,4). Even then, we will see God in the face of Jesus Christ, Yeshua our Messiah.

His reply

> [ECHAD] It is not necessarily plural, but it may be two (or more) things united into one.
> Echad is used in Gen. 2:24, "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother,
> and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one (echad) flesh." Two become one.

Marilyn, None of your evidence shows that >echad< means more than one! One can >modify< a "team" word-- "one family" etc, but this just shows that it is one and not two or more families, one bunch and not two bunches, etc. God is One Lord and not two Lords. Please explain the singular pronouns used of God thousands of times. How can God say "I" and "me" if He is more than one?
By the way Strongs is not the authority to which biblical scholarship at the best level appeals (not that Strongs does not have wonderful value as a concordance). No Hebrew lexicon shows echad to be anything but "one single." "united" means "one thing", not two things or more things....

Jesus said he did not know some things. How can he not know if he is God who knows everything?

My reply

> How can God say "I" and "me" if He is more than one?

Singular pronouns are used for a single united entity--not two, as you keep saying. "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" (II Cor. 5:19). Two became one. Jesus Christ has two natures, man and God, a unique united being like no other, ever. You have the Spirit of God in you by measure, and yet you call yourself "I" and "me".

How can God be in Christ and Jesus still pray to his Father? Simple. God is everywhere. All the Universe cannot contain him. In him we live and move and have our being. Actually, we do something similar. We pray to the Father, yet we have his Spirit in us. He knows our thoughts before we voice them.

What is different from you and Jesus is that the Holy Spirit (Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ) is given you by measure. Jesus was given all the powers. "For in him dwelleth ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD BODILY" (Col. 2:9). "For it pleased the Father that in him should ALL FULNESS DWELL" (Col 1:19). He was omniscient and proved it many times. When he said no man knows the day or hour, he himself was not included. He was not just a man. He was both man and God. He phrased that statement very carefully.

> No Hebrew lexicon shows echad to be anything but "one
> single." "united" means "one thing", not two things or more things.

If you don't care for Strongs, look in Gesenius Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon. It says, "together, unitedly" and "joined in one, united."

You keep making a united thing two things, or more. It is one. Is the United States one country? or is it two? or is it 50 because it has 50 parts? No. If it is united, it is one, even though made up of 50 parts.

> Your Jesus seems to be TWO "he's"--two persons.

Not two, one. Are you two persons because the Holy Spirit dwells in you? Jesus Christ was a man as to his body: "a body hast thou prepared me" (Heb. 10:5). Who was the "me" that the body was prepared for? It was God himself. "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" (II Cor. 5:19)....

I quoted Mt. 28:19: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name (singular, one name) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." In Yeshua, Jesus Christ, resides the Father and his Spirit. Rom. 8:9 says, "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if CHRIST BE IN YOU, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." You tell me how Christ can be in you....

> Jesus said he did not know some things. How can he not know if he is
> God who knows everything?

Jesus said that no man knew the day and hour. He himself is not just a man. He is both man and God, united into one whole. He is omniscient, has "ALL THE TREASURES OF WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE" (Col. 2:2,3), not only on Earth, but in Heaven as well. In Mt. 28:29, Jesus said "ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH."

Hoping that you can come to "the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ: In whom are hid ALL THE TREASURES OF WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE" (Col. 2:2,3).

Incoming Email

Checked out some of your links yesterday and there's a lot of people looking up these days. Exciting time to be alive. I am currently reading Grant Jeffrey's new updated book, ARMAGEDDON. It has some great information about Israel and their feast days. Everything is still fitting with your beliefs. Let's hang on for the ride of our lives!!!

My reply

I'm hanging in there. I've been hanging in there ever since 1968 when I figured out when I thought it would happen. I'm in there for the long haul, whenever it is. I have been trying ever since 1968 to find something against this, but everything new I find fits right into the same pattern. It should be exciting!!!. Rapture is a good word. Faith will become reality, just as it did for Noah. Since the Rapture is to be "as the days of Noe" (Mt. 24:37), it is very interesting that the Jewish year 5758 means "the season of Noah" and that 58 spells "Noah."

Incoming Email

I have read most of your website (I think) and your book 'The End Of The Age', however I sincerely hope you are wrong about your theory that there is only a select few chosen from among the believers in Christ Jesus to be taken in the Pre-Trib Rapture.

Let me explain why. Given that your theory is correct, I think we will be surprised to see the vast multitude of Christians who will be here after this event takes place. Who can be perfect? Who is free from sin? I sin even in thought, without realizing it. At first your findings shocked me. Then they scared me and I tried to be more Christian-like in my daily life, frantically trying to make up for lost time until our Lord calls us up during the Rapture. I wish I could say I am making major strides towards genuine self-improvement in God's eyes, but I'm afraid I am failing miserably. I'll simply have to pray to Christ to be my advocate before God, have mercy on my foolish self, and guide me wherever I may be, in whatever time of history. There is a good chance that if you are right, I'll at least be able to explain what happened to every one remaining on June 1st, 1998.

God bless you and your family, Marilyn. You seem to be a tremendous person.

My reply

I just hope that if people see that there is a prize to be won, they will run the race to win it. Paul could not be lost, yet he spoke of the possibility of being a castaway.

I Cor. 9:24f says, "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize. So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is TEMPERATE IN ALL THINGS. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible (given at the Rapture, Rev. 3:11;4:4). I therefore so run not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any mean, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."

In Phil. 3:8-14, Paul says, "I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ. And BE FOUND IN HIM (as the Laodiceans are not)...If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead (at the Rapture). Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren (believers), I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for THE PRIZE OF THE HIGH CALLING OF GOD IN CHRIST JESUS."

The high calling is the Rapture. The prize for Paul involves getting his resurrection body at the Rapture. The prize for us involves being caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture. We know the prize is also to be the Bride of Christ because the wise virgins went with the Bridegroom when the cry was made.

The Laodiceans can't be lost either, but they are spewed out of His mouth at the moment of the Pre-Trib Rapture. They are castaways. So are the foolish virgins. By this, we can see what we should be sure to do, be sure we are filled with enough oil of the Holy Spirit. Rev. 3:18 gives Jesus' advice: "I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich: and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see."

We are not told how much oil of the Holy Spirit we must have to be a wise virgin, but since we are told to be filled with the Spirit, we should strive for that.

When we first believe in Christ, all "old" sins are forgiven. We are as wise virgins full of the Holy Spirit Christ baptized us with. After that, when we have sinned, we must confess our known sins so Christ can wash our feet and cleanse us from all unrighteousness (I John 1:9). That is not hard. Pray as you go, when you sin. Don't save it up till later. Stay in fellowship with God as you run the race. If you try to do it by yourself, what chance do you have of winning? If you do it with the Lord, think of what inner strength you have.

Peter gave us list of things to add to our faith so we would not fail, virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness and love. "For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off (Heaven) and hath forgotten that he was purged from his OLD sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren (believers), give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" (II Peter 1:8-11).

Incoming Email

The gematria (numerical value) of the greek letters that make up this singular,holy title, "The Holy Spirit" is 1080.

Jim Harrison has a wonderful chapter is his book, The Pattern & The Prophecy about this, though, this info is available elsewhere. you can total it yourself.

5/31/98 is given by many to be a possible/probable date for the rapture of the Bride - the Blessed Hope. 5/31/98 is the LAST Sunday (the Lord's Day) in May, the celebration of Pentecost (50) the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, in the 50th Jubilee year of Israel.

PLEASE LOOK AT THIS SIMPLE MATH:

5 x 3 x 1 x 9 x 8 = 1080.

did the cornerstone just fall in place?

i find this difficult to discount, and easy to rejoice over in Jesus.

Praise Him, for He is Worthy!

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© 1997 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 2-6-98